Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell. | Page 1018 | The Boneyard
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Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

One note on the Big Ten potentially taking Stanford and Cal. Unexpectedly, it could mark the end of the ACC as a relevant conference due to lack of a significant television contract. Here's why:

Remember how the PAC 12 died partially because the Big 12 had taken the last remaining tv slots and there were none left for the PAC 12? There may be a similar situation coming where no significant networks will broadcast a substantial number of ACC games on tv (after the ACC GOR expires in 2036), because all the main networks are already taken. The Big Ten has gobbled up FOX (and FS1), CBS, and NBC (which they share with Notre Dame). The SEC has taken ESPN, ESPN2, and ABC. What's left?

The only available slots I see remaining are during the late night hours. The Big Ten will take that slot on FS1 since they now have western teams; none of FOX, CBS, or NBC are likely to broadcast 10pm football games nationally. Meanwhile, ESPN has late night openings since the SEC won't have any 10pm games. The question is whether they'd rather broadcast Big 12 or ACC games during that time.

The Big 12 currently has five teams out west: Utah, BYU, Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado. Meanwhile, the ACC only has two teams out west: Stanford and Cal. If those two get invited to the Big Ten, the ACC will have no western teams and thus no value for ESPN, in terms of filling its late night slots. In this scenario, ESPN would pick the Big 12 over the ACC, leaving the ACC with no significant tv contract. To make matters worse, that'll likely lead to the main remaining ACC schools bolting for the Big 12, and then the ACC is really screwed. Remember that they're already going to lose UNC and one or all of UVA/FSU/Clemson to the SEC. They can't afford to lose all of them plus Miami and more to the Big 12 on top of that.

However, if Cal and Stanford remain in the ACC, the conference will likely add a few western teams- probably Boise State and one or more of UNLV/San Diego State/Washington State- and then it becomes unclear whether ESPN would prefer the Big 12 or ACC. So unexpectedly, it seems to me like the key to the ACC having a shot at survival as a relevant and main conference hinges on keeping Stanford and Cal.
 
pick6s said:
One note on the Big Ten potentially taking Stanford and Cal. Unexpectedly, it could mark the end of the ACC as a relevant conference due to lack of a significant television contract. Here's why:

Remember how the PAC 12 died partially because the Big 12 had taken the last remaining tv slots and there were none left for the PAC 12? There may be a similar situation coming where no significant networks will broadcast a substantial number of ACC games on tv (after the ACC GOR expires in 2036), because all the main networks are already taken. The Big Ten has gobbled up FOX (and FS1), CBS, and NBC (which they share with Notre Dame). The SEC has taken ESPN, ESPN2, and ABC. What's left?

The only available slots I see remaining are during the late night hours. The Big Ten will take that slot on FS1 since they now have western teams; none of FOX, CBS, or NBC are likely to broadcast 10pm football games nationally. Meanwhile, ESPN has late night openings since the SEC won't have any 10pm games. The question is whether they'd rather broadcast Big 12 or ACC games during that time.

The Big 12 currently has five teams out west: Utah, BYU, Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado. Meanwhile, the ACC only has two teams out west: Stanford and Cal. If those two get invited to the Big Ten, the ACC will have no western teams and thus no value for ESPN, in terms of filling its late night slots. In this scenario, ESPN would pick the Big 12 over the ACC, leaving the ACC with no significant tv contract. To make matters worse, that'll likely lead to the main remaining ACC schools bolting for the Big 12, and then the ACC is really screwed. Remember that they're already going to lose UNC and one or all of UVA/FSU/Clemson to the SEC. They can't afford to lose all of them plus Miami and more to the Big 12 on top of that.

However, if Cal and Stanford remain in the ACC, the conference will likely add a few western teams- probably Boise State and one or more of UNLV/San Diego State/Washington State- and then it becomes unclear whether ESPN would prefer the Big 12 or ACC. So unexpectedly, it seems to me like the key to the ACC having a shot at survival as a relevant and main conference hinges on keeping Stanford and Cal.
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You aren't taking into account things like the SECN, BTN, ACCN, and new entrants and expanding networks like TNT/HBO Max, The CW, CBS, NBC as well as Friday night games from the P4, bye weeks, and out of conference games. Look at week 9 in the the SEC. There are 3 games on ABC, 1 on ESPN, and 3 on SECN. That leaves 8 ESPN time slots available 2 on ESPN, 3 on ESPN2, and 3 on ESPNU.
 
UConnJim said:
You aren't taking into account things like the SECN, BTN, ACCN, and new entrants and expanding networks like TNT/HBO Max, The CW, CBS, NBC as well as Friday night games from the P4, bye weeks, and out of conference games. Look at week 9 in the the SEC. There are 3 games on ABC, 1 on ESPN, and 3 on SECN. That leaves 8 ESPN time slots available 2 on ESPN, 3 on ESPN2, and 3 on ESPNU.
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I’m not saying the ACC won’t have any tv contract. I’m saying it will be a contract with second-tier networks that will be absolutely dwarfed by the SEC and Big Ten contracts, and will exacerbate the gap between them and the two superconferences. In other words, the ACC will basically become the equivalent of what the American Athletic Conference and Mountain West Conference are today.
 
UConnJim said:
You aren't taking into account things like the SECN, BTN, ACCN, and new entrants and expanding networks like TNT/HBO Max, The CW, CBS, NBC as well as Friday night games from the P4, bye weeks, and out of conference games. Look at week 9 in the the SEC. There are 3 games on ABC, 1 on ESPN, and 3 on SECN. That leaves 8 ESPN time slots available 2 on ESPN, 3 on ESPN2, and 3 on ESPNU.
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pick6s said:
I’m not saying the ACC won’t have any tv contract. I’m saying it will be a contract with second-tier networks that will be absolutely dwarfed by the SEC and Big Ten contracts, and will exacerbate the gap between them and the two superconferences. In other words, the ACC will basically become the equivalent of what the American Athletic Conference and Mountain West Conference are today.
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Correct. There will be a TV package for the ACC and it will be a combination of cable and streaming and have very few spots for networks or the prime spots on Disney or Fox properties. Accordingly, the value of those games will be way less than the other conferences.
 
Chin Diesel said:
Correct. There will be a TV package for the ACC and it will be a combination of cable and streaming and have very few spots for networks or the prime spots on Disney or Fox properties. Accordingly, the value of those games will be way less than the other conferences.
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You mean they won’t be looking for that BC Wake Forest matchup?
 
Chin Diesel said:
Correct. There will be a TV package for the ACC and it will be a combination of cable and streaming and have very few spots for networks or the prime spots on Disney or Fox properties. Accordingly, the value of those games will be way less than the other conferences.
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I disagree. All networks and streaming services have realized that live sports is one of the main drivers of viewers and the value of rites continues to go up. Apple TV just got the rights for Formula 1 from ESPN for $140 million per year vs the $90 million that ESPN was paying. ESPN and their networks are only one part of the college sports tv ecosystem and they are limited at how much they can pay as their cable bundle subscriber base continues to decline offset somewhat by streaming. We now have FOX/FS1 and FS2, NBC (and Peacock), CBS (Paramount+ and CBS Sport Network), TNT/TBS and HBO Max, The CW, Netflix, Apple TV, Amazon, NBA TV, MLB Network, NFL Network, NFL Sunday ticket, regional sports networks like NESN and YES, ... to bid up rights.
 
UConnJim said:
I disagree. All networks and streaming services have realized that live sports is one of the main drivers of viewers and the value of rites continues to go up. Apple TV just got the rights for Formula 1 from ESPN for $140 million per year vs the $90 million that ESPN was paying. ESPN and their networks are only one part of the college sports tv ecosystem and they are limited at how much they can pay as their cable bundle subscriber base continues to decline offset somewhat by streaming. We now have FOX/FS1 and FS2, NBC (and Peacock), CBS (Paramount+ and CBS Sport Network), TNT/TBS and HBO Max, The CW, Netflix, Apple TV, Amazon, NBA TV, MLB Network, NFL Network, NFL Sunday ticket, regional sports networks like NESN and YES, ... to bid up rights.
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F1 can kiss casual viewers goodbye. It will disappear over on Apple.
 
ZooCougar said:
F1 can kiss casual viewers goodbye. It will disappear over on Apple.
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If you told people 20 years ago Amazon would be broadcasting NFL football, you would have been called crazy. Not anymore. Apple TV just outbid ESPN for Formula 1 in the US. There are more networks showing college sports than ever before.
 
UConnJim said:
If you told people 20 years ago Amazon would be broadcasting NFL football, you would have been called crazy. Not anymore. Apple TV just outbid ESPN for Formula 1 in the US. There are more networks showing college sports than
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That’s the NFL. The biggest league in America. The opposite of niche.

F1 is still niche in America. There are still instances where IndyCar and NASCAR are getting better ratings. And those are even more niche.

If you have a niche sport then the worst play you can make is to put your product behind a pay wall.

ESPN can’t afford to show F1 commercial free. If they could they would still have it.
 
UConnJim said:
If you told people 20 years ago Amazon would be broadcasting NFL football, you would have been called crazy. Not anymore. Apple TV just outbid ESPN for Formula 1 in the US. There are more networks showing college sports than ever before.
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TLDR: If you could browse all streaming content through your devices UI, the argument against non-linear services will be over. Someone will probably tell me it already exists.

Full version: I think the one piece that is missing before streaming from non-linear tv (including YouTubeTV and other apps that stream traditional linear channels) fully matches linear is the ability to scroll through and choose all of your content in one UI regardless of the service.

I access my content through Firesticks or my Apple devices. It is relatively easy for me to click on an icon to move to different apps, but it still takes some time and knowledge of what is on that app. Firestick will show some of the content, especially if it's a show I've watched on the home page, but it's not comprehensive. I can search, but it's clunky and not easy to browse.

If I could just see all content in the Firestick UI and just click on that specific content, that would end the argument that "X event will die on [add any streaming service]." For example, if I can sort by "sports" and it would show all sports current showing on all the apps that I've downloaded, I can just click on F1 on Apple TV just like if I was scrolling through YouTubeTV channels.
 
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Chuck said:
TLDR: If you could browse all streaming content through your devices UI, the argument against non-linear services will be over. Someone will probably tell me it already exists.

Full version: I think the one piece that is missing before streaming from non-linear tv (including YouTubeTV and other apps that stream traditional linear channels) fully matches linear is the ability to scroll through and choose all of your content in one UI regardless of the service.

I access my content through Firesticks or my Apple devices. It is relatively easy for me to click on an icon to move to different apps, but it still takes some time and knowledge of what is on that app. Firestick will show some of the content, especially if it's a show I've watched on the home page, but it's not comprehensive. I can search, but it's clunky and not easy to browse.

If I could just see all content in the Firestick UI and just click on that specific content, that would end the argument that "X event will die on [add any streaming service]." For example, if I can sort by "sports" and it would show all sports current showing on all the apps that I've downloaded, I can just click on F1 on Apple TV just like if I was scrolling through YouTubeTV channels.
Expand ...
Largely agree, though my one reservation would be the sheer mass of content would actually be counterproductive.
 
pick6s said:
One note on the Big Ten potentially taking Stanford and Cal. Unexpectedly, it could mark the end of the ACC as a relevant conference due to lack of a significant television contract. Here's why:

Remember how the PAC 12 died partially because the Big 12 had taken the last remaining tv slots and there were none left for the PAC 12? There may be a similar situation coming where no significant networks will broadcast a substantial number of ACC games on tv (after the ACC GOR expires in 2036), because all the main networks are already taken. The Big Ten has gobbled up FOX (and FS1), CBS, and NBC (which they share with Notre Dame). The SEC has taken ESPN, ESPN2, and ABC. What's left?

The only available slots I see remaining are during the late night hours. The Big Ten will take that slot on FS1 since they now have western teams; none of FOX, CBS, or NBC are likely to broadcast 10pm football games nationally. Meanwhile, ESPN has late night openings since the SEC won't have any 10pm games. The question is whether they'd rather broadcast Big 12 or ACC games during that time.

The Big 12 currently has five teams out west: Utah, BYU, Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado. Meanwhile, the ACC only has two teams out west: Stanford and Cal. If those two get invited to the Big Ten, the ACC will have no western teams and thus no value for ESPN, in terms of filling its late night slots. In this scenario, ESPN would pick the Big 12 over the ACC, leaving the ACC with no significant tv contract. To make matters worse, that'll likely lead to the main remaining ACC schools bolting for the Big 12, and then the ACC is really screwed. Remember that they're already going to lose UNC and one or all of UVA/FSU/Clemson to the SEC. They can't afford to lose all of them plus Miami and more to the Big 12 on top of that.

However, if Cal and Stanford remain in the ACC, the conference will likely add a few western teams- probably Boise State and one or more of UNLV/San Diego State/Washington State- and then it becomes unclear whether ESPN would prefer the Big 12 or ACC. So unexpectedly, it seems to me like the key to the ACC having a shot at survival as a relevant and main conference hinges on keeping Stanford and Cal.
Expand ...
The idea here would be that ESPN cedes the Atlantic Coast for California?

When UCLA beat Penn State soundly, no one on the west coast watched, no one was in the stadium.
 
Chuck said:
TLDR: If you could browse all streaming content through your devices UI, the argument against non-linear services will be over. Someone will probably tell me it already exists.

Full version: I think the one piece that is missing before streaming from non-linear tv (including YouTubeTV and other apps that stream traditional linear channels) fully matches linear is the ability to scroll through and choose all of your content in one UI regardless of the service.

I access my content through Firesticks or my Apple devices. It is relatively easy for me to click on an icon to move to different apps, but it still takes some time and knowledge of what is on that app. Firestick will show some of the content, especially if it's a show I've watched on the home page, but it's not comprehensive. I can search, but it's clunky and not easy to browse.

If I could just see all content in the Firestick UI and just click on that specific content, that would end the argument that "X event will die on [add any streaming service]." For example, if I can sort by "sports" and it would show all sports current showing on all the apps that I've downloaded, I can just click on F1 on Apple TV just like if I was scrolling through YouTubeTV channels.
Expand ...
Exactly right. I want a channel guide for streaming - a scrollable interface that shows me at a glance what is live when through what subscription.
 
Chuck said:
TLDR: If you could browse all streaming content through your devices UI, the argument against non-linear services will be over. Someone will probably tell me it already exists.

Full version: I think the one piece that is missing before streaming from non-linear tv (including YouTubeTV and other apps that stream traditional linear channels) fully matches linear is the ability to scroll through and choose all of your content in one UI regardless of the service.

I access my content through Firesticks or my Apple devices. It is relatively easy for me to click on an icon to move to different apps, but it still takes some time and knowledge of what is on that app. Firestick will show some of the content, especially if it's a show I've watched on the home page, but it's not comprehensive. I can search, but it's clunky and not easy to browse.

If I could just see all content in the Firestick UI and just click on that specific content, that would end the argument that "X event will die on [add any streaming service]." For example, if I can sort by "sports" and it would show all sports current showing on all the apps that I've downloaded, I can just click on F1 on Apple TV just like if I was scrolling through YouTubeTV channels.
Expand ...
This already exists for me through Xfinity. All I have to do is go to the sports guide and it shows every game on every linear and non-linear network. So if the game is on Netflix, I just hit on the game and it switches me to the game on Netflix. Game on CBSSN, same thing, although it is faster to move between linear channels than to move back and forth on streaming services. I can search by time, sport, team,...
 
Waquoit said:
ESPN didn't want it. They made a bid that was easy to refuse. Same money.
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ESPN pulled out of the bidding. Remember, they paid $0 for the rights between 2018 and 2020, $5 million/year between 2020 and 2022, and now ~$90 million between 2023 to 2025. ESPN wasn't going to make the LT commitment to F1 at higher cost and decided not to pursue a renewal.

Although F1 has been commercial free, there are sponsorships and graphics on the screen.
 
UConnJim said:
This already exists for me through Xfinity. All I have to do is go to the sports guide and it shows every game on every linear and non-linear network. So if the game is on Netflix, I just hit on the game and it switches me to the game on Netflix. Game on CBSSN, same thing, although it is faster to move between linear channels than to move back and forth on streaming services. I can search by time, sport, team,...
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Firestick MAY have that. There is a "Live TV" button that I've accidentally hit, but I haven't looked into what's actually there and if it can be filtered. I'll take a look. If Xfinity has it, I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon just copied it.
 
UConnJim said:
This already exists for me through Xfinity. All I have to do is go to the sports guide and it shows every game on every linear and non-linear network. So if the game is on Netflix, I just hit on the game and it switches me to the game on Netflix. Game on CBSSN, same thing, although it is faster to move between linear channels than to move back and forth on streaming services. I can search by time, sport, team,...
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Cable has a slightly longer lifespan that physical newspapers
 
RSTuthill said:
As it should. It has become a computer game. Bring back classic gearboxes and clutches, No paddle shifters. Lets see some real driving.
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We’ve had paddle shifters since Senna though. They are on regular street cars.

Make a car that doesn’t need DRS to execute a pass.
 

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