Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[NH Husky]

What do you feel the big 12 it's done that hurts their brand? The consensus is just the opposite.

Not so much as hurting it but they failed to help it. They had the chance to dominate hoops. And football - yeah Utah is real good now but how long will they be able to sustain that without access to Cal talent? Neon at CO will flop or bolt.
I don’t know if goku is real or not but if he reflects anything of KU’s fan base they are not happy.
Also, how long until technology and stretched to thin start putting pressure ESPN to downsize or go bankrupt. It would start with dropping nonprofitable entities.

 

[Waquoit]

Nah, he’s a a dick and a fraud.

Who the hell are you?

 

[huskymedic]

 

[CL82]

Not so much as hurting it but they failed to help it. They had the chance to dominate hoops. And football - yeah Utah is real good now but how long will they be able to sustain that without access to Cal talent? Neon at CO will flop or bolt.
I don’t know if goku is real or not but if he reflects anything of KU’s fan base they are not happy.
Also, how long until technology and stretched to thin start putting pressure ESPN to downsize or go bankrupt. It would start with dropping nonprofitable entities.

Right now the perception is P5 > G5. Like it or not, regardless of athletic budget or the success of our sports teams, we are "G5" and therefore perceived as inferior. The four corners school made more geographic sense, if not strategic sense. They were a familiar choice by people who don't understand our program, our fan base, our history and our potential. I understand the decision, even if I don't agree with it.

I'm not sure that they "hurt their brand" so much as missed on an opportunity to maximize it.

 

[businesslawyer]

And maintain their not for profit tax status? Nil can be the start. Who says the athletes don’t want to be treated like pros?

Colleges athletics is a charade that when the bubble bursts, and it will, their greed now will leave a path of destruction.

Huh? Treating athletes like pros has zip to do with the non-profit status of the school. My temple pays the rabbi and office staff. That doesn't affect its status as a non-profit corporation. The criteria relate to whether shareholders own the profits and the public good purpose of the entity. Not who the entity pays or how much they pay them.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

We have yet to see the knock-on consequences of all of this consolidation in college sports, but I fear it will be very damaging. The big games will always draw eyeballs, but very easy to see a world in which two super conferences lead to some of these programs that have historically had some success, becoming perennially middling clubs or doormats. Hard to keep your fanbase engaged and could lead to a lot more apathy both from the teams that got left by the wayside and the teams that are at the bottom of 20-school conferences.

 

[businesslawyer]

There can be taxable components of non-taxed entities.

And if FSU takes huge money from private equity, that is likely to happen.

 

[Storrs South]

We have yet to see the knock-on consequences of all of this consolidation in college sports, but I fear it will be very damaging. The big games will always draw eyeballs, but very easy to see a world in which two super conferences lead to some of these programs that have historically had some success, becoming perennially middling clubs or doormats. Hard to keep your fanbase engaged and could lead to a lot more apathy both from the teams that got left by the wayside and the teams that are at the bottom of 20-school conferences.

We already have seen that. Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville have all become irrelevant in sports where they used to have much success. There will be more casualties.

 

[RioDog]

We have yet to see the knock-on consequences of all of this consolidation in college sports, but I fear it will be very damaging. The big games will always draw eyeballs, but very easy to see a world in which two super conferences lead to some of these programs that have historically had some success, becoming perennially middling clubs or doormats. Hard to keep your fanbase engaged and will lead to a lot more apathy both from the teams that got left by the wayside and the teams that are at the bottom of 20-school conferences.

FIFY

 

[JeepCSC]

We already have seen that. Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, South Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville have all become irrelevant in sports where they used to have much success. There will be more casualties.

South Carolina's high water mark was likely in the ACC around 1970. They took a hit going independent, and then the SEC saved them but also they remain on the fringes of the conference.

 

[JMick]

From our POV, the Big XII taking Stanford, Cal, SDSU and Oregon State would be a great thing. That would get them to 20 and leave less landing spots for the remaining ACC members when that conference implodes. It will leave Cinci, WVU and UCF pissed off.

Go Big XII. Take all the non-competitive west coast schools. When the next media contracts come due maybe your east coast schools will say screw this and join up with the remaining ACC schools and then we can join a conference that makes some sense geographically.

 

[UConnJim]

Are they currently being taxed?

It's almost a mute point anyway. How many athletic department actually make money? Maybe 10 to 20 at best and not that much money. When they do show a profit, it's usually through donations and those can be structured differently. And, if you don't want to show a profit in an entity like a university, it would be very easy. Where athletics are taxed is through the income taxes paid by the employees (coaches), social security taxes,... and sales taxes on sales of various things the AD sells.

NIL will be taxed as income to athletes and as of right now it appears NIL donations to collectives will not be tax deductible.

 

[businesslawyer]

From our POV, the Big XII taking Stanford, Cal, SDSU and Oregon State would be a great thing. That would get them to 20 and leave less landing spots for the remaining ACC members when that conference implodes. It will leave Cinci, WVU and UCF pissed off.

Go Big XII. Take all the non-competitive west coast schools. When the next media contracts come due maybe your east coast schools will say screw this and join up with the remaining ACC schools and then we can join a conference that makes some sense geographically.

Isn't the problem with your theory that the more P-4 schools who want to jump to the ACC, the less room they will have for non P-4 schools like us?

There are only going to be so many seats on the merry go round when consolidation continues. The fewer schools that are already on teh merry go round when they start taking seats away has to be to our advantage.

 

[djct1999]

Huh? Treating athletes like pros has zip to do with the non-profit status of the school. My temple pays the rabbi and office staff. That doesn't affect its status as a non-profit corporation. The criteria relate to whether shareholders own the profits and the public good purpose of the entity. Not who the entity pays or how much they pay them.

Point is, some entity is going to attack the model. It will burst.

 

[Urcea]

Who the hell are you?

the anti-GoKU crowd are Very Smart, Unlike You Rubes, and they'll let you know it

 

[DblCrossbar]

We have yet to see the knock-on consequences of all of this consolidation in college sports, but I fear it will be very damaging. The big games will always draw eyeballs, but very easy to see a world in which two super conferences lead to some of these programs that have historically had some success, becoming perennially middling clubs or doormats. Hard to keep your fanbase engaged and could lead to a lot more apathy both from the teams that got left by the wayside and the teams that are at the bottom of 20-school conferences.

Despite championships within MBB and WBB within the purgatory years of the AAC, interest waned with no natural rivals to compete against. The games that mattered were those scheduled out of conference vs former Big East teams. KO did mismanage the program, but there was no juice there and interest waned because of the makeup of the opponents. Regional appeal matters, at least at the gate, and is more humane for the experience of who we still pretend to be “student athletes”.

The money is there now from standard media distribution, but it will not be the case in 10 years when streaming is the dominant form or some whacko ESPN brain implant comes to fruition. It’s not wrong to pursue entry into a P? Conference, but we must recognize it isn’t salvation over even a 20 year timeframe either. Change will be the only constant, history and tradition be damned.

As an aside it would be interesting to trace application numbers to UConn following championship years. Is winning a better bump to the bottom line and prestige of a university that helps academics, or is the conference a better engine to attract better students and research funding, or is it all mutually exclusive. There’s a PHD thesis out there for someone interested at investigating these dynamics and ultimately what success or membership brings to an higher education institution.

 

[NH Husky]

Right now the perception is P5 > G5. Like it or not, regardless of athletic budget or the success of our sports teams, we are "G5" and therefore perceived as inferior. The four corners school made more geographic sense, if not strategic sense. They were a familiar choice by people who don't understand our program, our fan base, our history and our potential. I understand the decision, even if I don't agree with it.

I'm not sure that they "hurt their brand" so much as missed on an opportunity to maximize it.

I think we’re close to the same page.
If B1G and SEC keep going the way they are, the gap between P2 and rest will grow until they break away or a separate division is created. And the cream of the crop of this division will further try to separate themselves from the lower schools. Increasingly fan bases will be disgruntled by not winning - Nebraska, Missouri, Rutgers, Maryland. People always mention money, but throwing more money at others who have more money than you becomes futile and won’t produce wins.

Plus, there will be a huge number of sports fans of non P2 schools that will crave content. Creating a level below P2 (G5-8). That level below may give up on the whole conference GOR notion and develop their own revenue streams tied into new a technology. And with scheduling partnerships with schools of similar cultures. Just like the old conferences.

So would the likes of UNC and Virginia move their sports to a P2 only to lose their fan base. Not to mention in spite of revenue, how many do not make a profit? Also, what’s more important to the fan base? Winning or AD profitability?

 

[JMick]

Isn't the problem with your theory that the more P-4 schools who want to jump to the ACC, the less room they will have for non P-4 schools like us?

There are only going to be so many seats on the merry go round when consolidation continues. The fewer schools that are already on teh merry go round when they start taking seats away has to be to our advantage.

There should be plenty of spots if the ACC wants to compete with the other three conferences. My guess is 6-8 ACC schools end up leaving if the Big XII fills up. If it doesn't then it's probably 8-12 schools that leave.

UNC is gone. Florida state is gone. Clemson is gone. Miami is gone. Virginia and Virginia tech are probably gone too.

If the Big XII doesn't fill up then you're looking at 2-4 more ACC schools leaving and the remainder of the ACC is just BC, Wake, Cuse and maybe Duke. So that doesn't help us either.

 

[UConnKev]

 

[UConnJim]

How much value are conferences creating by expanding? It's unclear. One thing we do know, in a 18 to 20 team Big 10, how many times will USC play Ohio State or Michigan in football? Does the market want a Washington vs Purdue game? And, before people say they will play more conference games, that would be a problem for schools like Ohio St., Michigan, and Penn State. Why? They have to have 7 home football games per year for budgetary reasons. If you played a 10 conference game schedule out of 12, you have 5 conference home games and 2 out of conference games. I guess they could play 2 G5 and or FCS home games per year to get to 7, but is that what the media companies want and how does that add value to the media contract?

 

[WhereistheDove?]

 

[Khal Drogo]

Not so much as hurting it but they failed to help it. They had the chance to dominate hoops. And football - yeah Utah is real good now but how long will they be able to sustain that without access to Cal talent? Neon at CO will flop or bolt.
I don’t know if goku is real or not but if he reflects anything of KU’s fan base they are not happ

I’m assuming it was Michael Crow from ASU. BC is lucky that he is not an ACC president.

 

[Punkbo]

And if FSU takes huge money from private equity, that is likely to happen.

…..and that’s OK. If a PE shop creates an SPV to house their investment, you’d expect the SPV to be taxed at some level.

 

[Punkbo]

Despite championships within MBB and WBB within the purgatory years of the AAC, interest waned with no natural rivals to compete against. The games that mattered were those scheduled out of conference vs former Big East teams. KO did mismanage the program, but there was no juice there and interest waned because of the makeup of the opponents. Regional appeal matters, at least at the gate, and is more humane for the experience of who we still pretend to be “student athletes”.

The money is there now from standard media distribution, but it will not be the case in 10 years when streaming is the dominant form or some whacko ESPN brain implant comes to fruition. It’s not wrong to pursue entry into a P? Conference, but we must recognize it isn’t salvation over even a 20 year timeframe either. Change will be the only constant, history and tradition be damned.

As an aside it would be interesting to trace application numbers to UConn following championship years. Is winning a better bump to the bottom line and prestige of a university that helps academics, or is the conference a better engine to attract better students and research funding, or is it all mutually exclusive. There’s a PHD thesis out there for someone interested at investigating these dynamics and ultimately what success or membership brings to an higher education institution.

There’s no doubt that having a successful athletic department creates benefits for the university as a whole. I applied to Duke as their basketball program was gaining prominence and was unceremoniously rejected despite my stellar credentials.

 

[Travelman6]

Dang that's brutal. This conference realignment stuff is really getting out of hand. I wonder how many ppl will just get sick of it and say screw college sports or, eventually get bored of it. Not everyone in these inflated conferences can win. What happens when Texas or usc have .500 seasons? Or worse. At this point I hope the descion makers completely fumble this whole scheme.

 

[Khal Drogo]

Oregon State ended the year at 10-3 and final AP ranking 17

 

[Rufus]

it’s funny that the B10 took the “valuable” Pac schools, and the rest couldn’t get a good offer. But now they’re all gonna get paid more in the B12 for some reason? Conference Realignment really isn’t based on anything.

It's not so much about individual teams as it is the matchups of games played and the combined following of the two teams who are playing who will generate the ratings of the game. It's hard to generate higher ratings when you have a lesser following and playing a team who has a lesser following and those teams are both in the Pacific Time Zone playing when half of America is asleep.

 

[Mora4Prez]

Does anyone think the Big XII is going to expand with 2 more teams? Or is that a pipe dream?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This didn’t happen. McMurphy either made up the quote or knows it is bull.

 

[Khal Drogo]

Does anyone think the Big XII is going to expand with 2 more teams? Or is that a pipe dream?

Yes by December