Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell. | Page 264 | The Boneyard

Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

Have there been any Tim Brando sightings at the ACC media days??
 
Slasher said:
Cincinnati is way underrated in USNews as well. They are median or above a large number of AAU schools, but are still waiting on an invite. If you do research into AAU the most likely schools to be next are Cincy, UAB, USF type schools.
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USNWR rates UCONN above Cincinnati for medical research as well as primary care and clinical grad work.
 
Interview with John Swofford...

Q. In a more micro sense for the ACC, as 2023 comes up (when TV deals for the Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-12 start to expire) and we have the specter of possible changes in alignment, obviously your membership has been secured well beyond that, but do you have any fears of what that might look like over the next six years as there could be some movement? Especially at a time when college conferences have gone from small groups of like-minded schools to larger marketing partnerships.

A. My guess is whatever comes at that point in time, and far be it from me to predict that, I don’t see it affecting the ACC very much. If Notre Dame wanted to take a step to come in football, I think the conference would readily have that conversation. Then you’re maybe looking at a 16th school to have balanced football divisions. Beyond that, my guess is that this league will, in 2035-36, look a lot like it does today in terms of its membership. Elsewhere? I think we’ll just have to wait and see. I never thought our league would be 15 (teams). Seriously. There was a time when I started seeing that there was benefit to that, and not only benefit but necessity. But when I took the job 20 years ago I didn’t see that. I thought maybe 12. And then things happen and things change in the landscape and the marketplace and what you need to do in order to keep the conference at the most prominent level. So those things change. If there becomes this sense of having 20-member conferences-slash-associations, and there are fewer of them, long term I guess that could come into play. In terms of our own membership, and in the period of time you asked me about, that would be my answer in terms of us.
 
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More Swoffordism:

I think there will continue to be a look at the size of the NCAA, the national organization and what role it continues to have. Whether the gaps in conferences and institutions that play at different levels, whether it makes sense to keep all of them together under one umbrella or not. At this particular time, I still think it does make sense to do that and what we’ve tried to do is find the appropriate subgroups to keep it under one umbrella to try and benefit everybody. Twenty years from now if that’s still possible, I don’t know. I’m not that much of a visionary in that sense.
 
Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 5m 5 minutes ago
Delany: "We didn't mean to," upset, "the world," in expansion.

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 5m 5 minutes ago
Delany: ACC expansion made B10 feel "cramped." "More risk in staying where we were." Maryland, Rutgers "sleeping giants."

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 3m 3 minutes ago
"If you go much beyond where we are, it's more like an association," Delany on further expansion. Hearing this more and more.

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 2m 2 minutes ago
More and more administrators telling me really hard to go beyond 14. We may have reached peak expansion, super conferences.
 
huskymedic said:
Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 5m 5 minutes ago
Delany: "We didn't mean to," upset, "the world," in expansion.

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 5m 5 minutes ago
Delany: ACC expansion made B10 feel "cramped." "More risk in staying where we were." Maryland, Rutgers "sleeping giants."

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 3m 3 minutes ago
"If you go much beyond where we are, it's more like an association," Delany on further expansion. Hearing this more and more.

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 2m 2 minutes ago
More and more administrators telling me really hard to go beyond 14. We may have reached peak expansion, super conferences.
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This is what I've been saying. If you go past 14, it isn't really a conference anymore. It's a conglomerate.
 
huskyrob1 said:
USNWR rates UCONN above Cincinnati for medical research as well as primary care and clinical grad work.
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I'm not disputing your numbers, just interested in a link which shows these comparisons. I know UCin has $200-million-plus/year in pediatric research alone. Cincinnati Children's Hospital, ranked #3 in the country, the UCin's pediatric department.
 
shizzle787 said:
This is what I've been saying. If you go past 14, it isn't really a conference anymore. It's a conglomerate.
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Swofford, at the recent Media Days, said that the ACC would only expand if Notre Dame decided to come on board, he doesn't expect expansion beyond 14 for football. He stated that was unless there is a national push to go to 20 team associations.
 
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huskymedic said:
Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 5m 5 minutes ago
Delany: "We didn't mean to," upset, "the world," in expansion.

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 5m 5 minutes ago
Delany: ACC expansion made B10 feel "cramped." "More risk in staying where we were." Maryland, Rutgers "sleeping giants."

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 3m 3 minutes ago
"If you go much beyond where we are, it's more like an association," Delany on further expansion. Hearing this more and more.

Dennis Dodd‏ @dennisdoddcbs 2m 2 minutes ago
More and more administrators telling me really hard to go beyond 14. We may have reached peak expansion, super conferences.
Expand ...
finger-suicide_00028701.jpg
 
The "expansion" attempt by the Big 12 proves that there are no more worthy candidates for expansion that would bring in the necessary money. If there were, the Big 12 would have definitely expanded. Potential no longer matters - you do bring in the money or you don't.
 
SubZero said:
The "expansion" attempt by the Big 12 proves that there are no more worthy candidates for expansion that would bring in the necessary money. If there were, the Big 12 would have definitely expanded. Potential no longer matters - you do bring in the money or you don't.
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Could not disagree more. The "expansion" attempt by the Big 12 proves that it is the most dysfunctional of the P5 conferences and not much more than that.
 
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Western PA said:
I'm not disputing your numbers, just interested in a link which shows these comparisons. I know UCin has $200-million-plus/year in pediatric research alone. Cincinnati Children's Hospital, ranked #3 in the country, the UCin's pediatric department.
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There is a huge difference between peer-reviewed competitive grants and research conducted under the auspices of running a hospital. This is often missed when posters in this thread are touting schools like USF and UAB. Teaching hospitals have huge budgets, and part of teaching is research conducted in those hospitals, but that is a very different thing than research funding secured through competitive grants and the national foundations.

At the end of the day, the AAU is much more interested in the latter, and also having a broad range of strong disciplines, and also faculty productivity, rather than some aggregate amount reported by universities like UAB or USF.
 
SubZero said:
The "expansion" attempt by the Big 12 proves that there are no more worthy candidates for expansion that would bring in the necessary money. If there were, the Big 12 would have definitely expanded. Potential no longer matters - you do bring in the money or you don't.
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It doesn't prove that at all. There was no reason for them to expand the conference geographically. UConn doesn't fit in the B12.
 
upstater said:
There is a huge difference between peer-reviewed competitive grants and research conducted under the auspices of running a hospital. This is often missed when posters in this thread are touting schools like USF and UAB. Teaching hospitals have huge budgets, and part of teaching is research conducted in those hospitals, but that is a very different thing than research funding secured through competitive grants and the national foundations.

At the end of the day, the AAU is much more interested in the latter, and also having a broad range of strong disciplines, and also faculty productivity, rather than some aggregate amount reported by universities like UAB or USF.
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This. The AAU is very selective in what they are looking for and over all research dollars isn't it.

I know that many claim the reason UNL was voted out of the AAU was not having a med school on campus, and that was part of the issue. Bigger yet was the fact that the AAU stopped using many agricultural grants from the USDA. Many of these grants are not competitive so it brought down the metrics for UNL. Whether not counting those grants was the way to remove UNL or not, I don't know.
 
upstater said:
There is a huge difference between peer-reviewed competitive grants and research conducted under the auspices of running a hospital. This is often missed when posters in this thread are touting schools like USF and UAB. Teaching hospitals have huge budgets, and part of teaching is research conducted in those hospitals, but that is a very different thing than research funding secured through competitive grants and the national foundations.

At the end of the day, the AAU is much more interested in the latter, and also having a broad range of strong disciplines, and also faculty productivity, rather than some aggregate amount reported by universities like UAB or USF.
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Cincinnati has a decent medical school because that was the one area of the university that the civic leaders in Cincinnati invested in when UC was a metropolitan (rather than state) university. For the rest of it, they were quite content to allow it remain a rather undistinguished regional commuter school. If you really bear down into some of the National Research Council's rankings of doctoral programs, you find that Cincinnati is an AAU quality medical school attached to a MAC level university. They don't have a single member of the National Academies of Engineering or Science on their faculty, and their undergraduate reputation and selectivity are garbage. All these things matter to the AAU. They mattered in Nebraska being kicked out, and they matter in schools like Cincinnati and UAB having no shot at an invitation.
 
None of this matters anymore. The B1G is not expanding according to Mr. Delany. They are happy at 14. UConn needs to take a page out of the Louisville and North Carolina playbook. Do anything to win and make it look like you are right in doing it. Only then might they become attractive to the last P5 with room to expand. Academics and morals are meaningless.
 
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For those interested in the AAU metrics, this annual report by the Center for Measuring University Performance does a pretty good job of sketching out the broad numbers. Schools are grouped together by how many metrics in which they rank in the top 25 or top 50. And then ranked either publics only (pg 20), privates only or publics and privates together (pg 14).

https://mup.asu.edu/sites/default/f...rican-research-universities-annual-report.pdf

These would be some of the hard metrics used by the AAU. Softer metrics would be undergraduate reputation, and strength and reputation of "core academic departments" i.e. arts & sciences.
 
chicago312 said:
For those interested in the AAU metrics, this annual report by the Center for Measuring University Performance does a pretty good job of sketching out the broad numbers. Schools are grouped together by how many metrics in which they rank in the top 25 or top 50. And then ranked either publics only (pg 20), privates only or publics and privates together (pg 14).

https://mup.asu.edu/sites/default/f...rican-research-universities-annual-report.pdf

These would be some of the hard metrics used by the AAU. Softer metrics would be undergraduate reputation, and strength and reputation of "core academic departments" i.e. arts & sciences.
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And you can have as big of rose colored glasses in the world and see that Cincy is leaps and bounds ahead of Connecticut (when combining the medical center) when looking at pretty much any research item in that document.
 
Slasher said:
And you can have as big of rose colored glasses in the world and see that Cincy is leaps and bounds ahead of Connecticut (when combining the medical center) when looking at pretty much any research item in that document.
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I looked at this the other day and was not convinced it was close to AAU metrics at all. I compared Cincy to some of the schools currently in the AAU -- not UConn. And the internal AAU documents I've seen are night and day different than this study.

I can't tell you why there's such a discrepancy, but even in UConn's case, the $86m research budget is really small compared to the actual numbers. But it's not just research dollars. The lack of faculty in the national academies at Cincy plus the low SAT averages of the students (Cincy is ranked 362, UConn 34) makes this a mixed bag.

No one has said Cincy or USF or UAB for that matter dont spend a lot of money on research. They do. We're discussing though the actual stats that the AAU values.

Personally I think Cincy is up there as an AAU candidate, but when you look at these studies, it is well above current AAU members, and that right there is a red flag not to take the studies that seriously. Internally to the AAU, Cincy isn't up to par with CURRENT members.
 
I'm not really that interested in these sorts of discussions but here comes my input;

Why are we talking about the AAU? Because that's considered a very important "metric" for the Big 10, right?

I don't believe that there is a hard and fast metric that is required for Big 10 membership.

I think it's something much more like a smell test.

If this is a debate about who would pass a hypothetical smell test with big 10 presidents, I don't think there's any doubt UConn is more of a "Big 10 type" school than UC.

UConn is a major land grant, flagship university. UC is not. The impression I've always had, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, is that UC is a commuter school. That is a major cultural difference between the Big 10 schools and UC. UConn's public Ivy culture and high academic standards (look at incoming freshman stats and alumni earnings) means that UConn fits the Big 10 profile better by leaps and bounds.

That is why Nebraska got in and Michigan State got in back in the day and why Notre Dame had a standing invitation; those schools just have a big 10 "feel," they pass the smell test. It just so happens that the profile of school that the big 10 is looking for often times overlaps with what the AAU is for.

You guys are going to drive yourself crazy (if you already havent) trying to nail down some rubric that the big 10 uses, but it doesn't exist.

Anyway, having said all that, I don't think either school is going to the Big 10.
 
TL;dr you all are trying to apply objective reasoning to a decision that will be completely subjective, should it ever come
 
Slasher said:
And you can have as big of rose colored glasses in the world and see that Cincy is leaps and bounds ahead of Connecticut (when combining the medical center) when looking at pretty much any research item in that document.
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All Cincinnati did was buy itself a decent medical center which attracted research dollars to prop up an otherwise crappy school. The undergraduate metrics really suck big time. If you think the Cincinnati shell game is going to hoodwink Jim Delaney or John Swofford you're out of your mind.
 
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