Jim Fuller: Geno not concerned about 11 player roster

[semper]

Success is counted sweetest
By those who ne'er succeed.
To comprehend a nectar
Requires sorest need.

Not one of all the purple Host
Who took the Flag today
Can tell the definition
So clear of Victory

As he defeated--dying--
On whose forbidden ear
The distant strains of triumph
Burst agonized and clear!
Emily Dickinson

 

[msf22b]

Good points Ice

 

[doggydaddy]

Note: I am not saying that any of the above is a better assumption than yours and , simply that there are ample other possibilities than those you built you comments upon.

Yes, there are alway several ways to look at things. Personally, I'll look at it by giving Geno the benefit of the doubt based on his history with all the recruits that love and respect him. I just don't understand using the printed word when you don't hear how he said it and use that to look at Geno so poorly.

 

[Icebear]

Yes, there are alway several ways to look at things. Personally, I'll look at it by giving Geno the benefit of the doubt based on his history with all the recruits that love and respect him. I just don't understand using the printed word when you don't hear how he said it and use that to look at Geno so poorly.

And that in Geno's case we know is more critical than with many others.

 

[DobbsRover2]

UConn WCBB is what it is, and it has always had a guy who was willing to speak candidly about the sport and players in a way that is constructive to just about everybody who's not dressed in orange in an NC game against the Huskies. Baylor and Stanford also have coaches who generally are willing to talk forthrightly about the game, though obviously not with the volume or daring of Geno, and that is one of the reasons why the teams are always up near the top and players know what's expected. That will never happen at MD, where truth and candor were buried in a shell long ago.

Geno's use of "drain" was clearly meant in a very broad sense though, and not just what the two players were going through. The UConn program has gotten to such a high demanding level that not all of the few who are given the chance to audition for it can climb up there or put the full heart and body into it. For some players that means there is a constant emotional drain for players who feel frustrated with their own efforts and their teammates' frustrations with them. Glossing over this fact about UConn BB does no one any service, while spelling it all out helps everybody in the future who will be facing this situation and need to prepare their psyches for it. As to past players, none of us can really say. But I would caution against dumping on an Ashley Valley because of a game here or there where she seemed to be out of whack. Geno has always said it is the practices that make the player, and a lot of those players who were not necessarily stellar in games might have held up their end of the job very well in practice.

 

[msf22b]

Ice/Doggy

Let me amplify my brief compliment; this thread is churning back in the direction of the earlier uncritical support for our otherwise, worthy coach to which I took exception in the first place.

Ice, I admire (as does quite possibly the entire board) the creativity of your thought process and the eloquent way you express its conclusions. I have followed quite intensely your defense of the community at Penn State and although I find myself not always in complete agreement, your expression is never less than admirable; thank you, it was very much needed.

In the case in point, your explanation is intellectually reasonable and plausible and that is what I was applauding but even if true, Geno's cruel words were unnecessary and better left unsaid.

Michael Feldman (I've been inspired by John to use my real name)

 

[meganmatthews]

Unnecessary. Better left unsaid. That is what makes Geno Geno! He is not going to change. And to be honest, if he did, we would all say "What happened to Geno? He turned into a wuss!" One day we will miss all his outspoken, crass, obtuse comments. We will say " I remember when Geno would say . . ." So now I sit back and take it all in. Throw them under the bus, Geno! I love it!

 

[doggydaddy]

if true, Geno's cruel words were unnecessary and better left unsaid.

)

Cruel? Wow.....

I am certain that both Engeln and Johnson would be laughing at you take on this.

 

[John Fryer]

Unnecessary. Better left unsaid. That is what makes Geno Geno! He is not going to change. And to be honest, if he did, we would all say "What happened to Geno? He turned into a wuss!" One day we will miss all his outspoken, crass, obtuse comments. We will say " I remember when Geno would say . . ." So now I sit back and take it all in. Throw them under the bus, Geno! I love it!

Okay, in order for us to continue to have an elite women's basketball program requires that we accept it as being okay for coach A to employ very negative words in describing his evaluation of two former student athletes and team members, right?

IMHO, this should be a discussion about whether or not it was appropriate for coach A to make such negative comments.

As has been pointed out in a couple of earlier posts, there is no way that either of the young women can defend themselves without appearing to be dealing in sour grapes.

The bottom line is this: Coach A has done an outstanding job developing UConn Women's basketball into an Elite program.

As a teacher and role model for student athletes he is, however, still a work in progress.

There is a specific word that I have never associated with coach A: Oh, I got it.

Tact.

Peace,

John Fryer

 

[RadyLady]

One man's ceiling is another man's floor. I believe that all should recognize that there are going to be varying viewpoints on the interpretation of what Geno may or may not say to the press or anyone.


I am thinking that all of those who are trying to hold Coach to their "high" standards best look at themselves an their manner of speech to see if any advertant remark that they make could be taken out of context and used to evaluate their interpersonal relationships and communications.

IMO, given the scouring that Geno gets on this fan board, I am surprised that he continues to speak publically at all.

I am not deleting this one

 

[msf22b]

Rady
Certainly Geno, as a public figure, has to be held to a higher standard than a mere poster on a message board.

 

[Husky WBB Fan]

Since I've taken a few personal shots in this stream, I'm going to reply:

1. Just exactly how can someone interpret the following as Geno saying the two players were a drain on themselves and not the team? I've had a pretty successful career reading and interpreting text, but I can't create the benefit of the doubt from the words below that others are trying to give GA.

While they are here and it is not working out, it is a drain. I know everybody loves to see them in the last two minutes 'oh aren't they cute and why aren't they playing more?' They don't realize it is a drain because they can't keep up with everybody at practice and it make it difficult so going into the season feeling like it is going to be more competitive than ever."​

​

2. So Doggy, can you explain to me how you know "I am certain that both Engeln and Johnson would be laughing at you take on this." How are you "certain"? Are you and GA, Engeln and Johnson BFF? You share personal thoughts on topics such as this? Seems to me the truth is that you are just working with the same set of tea leaves that all the rest of us have used. The difference is that you are able to convince yourself that your "take" is intuitively obvious and that everyone else's take is incorrect. A little delusional, naive, and self-righteous in my view.

3. And again Doggy, "his history with all the recruits that love and respect him" - how do you know all these recruits and their expression of "love and respect?" Are you on the interview team? Do you do follow-up interviews? Seems the truth is that you are just using the same message points we are all using to convince yourself of a reality that you want to believe. Reading the paper and the boards makes you "close" to the team? Come on, I read all of those as well, but I don't fool myself into believing that makes me "close" to the team.

4. Jeez, Doggy again.... "I just don't understand using the printed word when you don't hear how he said it and use that to look at Geno so poorly." So you don't understand the sanctity of the printed word? You need to hear the context and will slide on the words? Geno should be smart enough to know that it is the printed word that lasts and circulates - - it endures. And the printed words were unnecessary and painful and far below the standard of behavior that Engeln and Johnson demonstrated. Much more serious allegations and convictions have stood on much more flimsy "printed words"

5. In my post yesterday I did have a line about being imperfect and accepting that in GA, myself, and others. Deleted it because the post was getting too long. I was not disparaging him. I was pointing out one of his imperfections and that I felt it was unnecessary and hard to understand in the context of this post olympic and pre-season moment.

6. I didn't know that in signing up for this board I was signing up for an oath of dropping all critical thinking skills that could possibly point to imperfections in the program or any individual involved. Jeez, isn't that the kind of behavior that led certain individuals to be able to prolong inappropriate behavior? Blind mantra of obedience and excuse making in regards to all things pertaining to GA?!? Hey, he disappointed me with his cutting and unnecessary comments about young adults who he brought into the program. I'm hoping he called them and apologized. In the meantime, I'm checking out of the BY for a couple months while some of you continue to find creative ways to construct odd logic that leads to all his behavior as acceptable or misunderstood.

 

[msf22b]

Husky Fan:
I wrote just yesterday to an esteemed colleague that the board was maturing enough so that this conversation could take place in an appropriate fashion. I truly believe that and beseech you to stay.

Michael Feldman

 

[semper]

The off season is usually pretty terrible....but don't go, at least read, even if you don't post. I have taken vows to leave too, but I always come back. You learn lots of great stuff, and the people are decent human beings, both very funny, and truly knowledgeable. For all the warts and grunts, it's a pretty great world! I am so busy with work, I should not be reading.....but I do. So don't go Husky WBB...you can criticize people here, and for what it's worth, you are not alone in this. Geno's comments made me sad, and that's why I posted the Emily D poem, which I think expresses something quite beautiful about not having the edge, not being the best, but having something else that is noble and true, and deeply important to sport and to achievement. No one appreciates greatness more that we cognoscenti, but there is something to be said too for the high-fivers. God bless them everyone!

 

[doggydaddy]

2. So Doggy, can you explain to me how you know "I am certain that both Engeln and Johnson would be laughing at you take on this." How are you "certain"? Are you and GA, Engeln and Johnson BFF? You share personal thoughts on topics such as this? Seems to me the truth is that you are just working with the same set of tea leaves that all the rest of us have used. The difference is that you are able to convince yourself that your "take" is intuitively obvious and that everyone else's take is incorrect. A little delusional, naive, and self-righteous in my view.

I have never met Engeln and Johnson. BFF? Are you 12?? I have met and spoken with Geno MANY times. So it's not just "tea leaves". Convince myself? Wow...talk about taking shots. I know the man and he doesn't have a cruel bone in his body. Sarcastic? Yes, Cruel? Not a chance. Self-righteous? That is what I find all these posts deriding Geno without talking to him face to face.

3. And again Doggy, "his history with all the recruits that love and respect him" - how do you know all these recruits and their expression of "love and respect?" Are you on the interview team? Do you do follow-up interviews? Seems the truth is that you are just using the same message points we are all using to convince yourself of a reality that you want to believe. Reading the paper and the boards makes you "close" to the team? Come on, I read all of those as well, but I don't fool myself into believing that makes me "close" to the team.
I've also spoken with many players and they have nothing but love and respect for Geno. He has their backs and they know it. Interview team? Give me a break. Just because you are guessing doesn't mean I am. More insults?

4. Jeez, Doggy again.... "I just don't understand using the printed word when you don't hear how he said it and use that to look at Geno so poorly." So you don't understand the sanctity of the printed word? You need to hear the context and will slide on the words? Geno should be smart enough to know that it is the printed word that lasts and circulates - - it endures. And the printed words were unnecessary and painful and far below the standard of behavior that Engeln and Johnson demonstrated. Much more serious allegations and convictions have stood on much more flimsy "printed words"
Of course I understand the sanctity of the printed word. I also know that tone and inflection is important when trying to interpret what someone means. To call what he said cruel and now painful are unbelievable to me. Talk about over the top.


6. I didn't know that in signing up for this board I was signing up for an oath of dropping all critical thinking skills that could possibly point to imperfections in the program or any individual involved. Jeez, isn't that the kind of behavior that led certain individuals to be able to prolong inappropriate behavior? Blind mantra of obedience and excuse making in regards to all things pertaining to GA?!? Hey, he disappointed me with his cutting and unnecessary comments about young adults who he brought into the program. I'm hoping he called them and apologized. In the meantime, I'm checking out of the BY for a couple months while some of you continue to find creative ways to construct odd logic that leads to all his behavior as acceptable or misunderstood.

No one is telling you to have blind allegence. But you think you and others can just post with impunity and not have someone question your comments? It's just what you are doing to Geno, but he isn't here to defend his comments. Blind mantra of obedience and excuse making? GIve me a break. It's posters disagreeing. We do that all the time here.

Enjoy your months away. I won't miss your personal attacks on my opinion.

 

[msf22b]

There hardly is an off-season at all this year what with the Olympics, WNBA, U-18... woman's BB almost every day...new Husky's, old Husky's...oh, gee. I know its not exactly the real thing.

 

[snowkot]

Ice - appreciate the time, effort and consideration in your response. Well done.

However, I must take issue that a properly worded release is "the type of insincere press drivel that everyone hates and then questions anyway. Such comments always end up sounding like what is he covering up. Plus a little bruskness may help everyone move on easier."

Not everyone hates respectful comments - which those were. Not everyone questions respectful comments - which those were. And they certainly do not sound like anyone is covering up anything. This is standard stuff when two parties separate on most any public discipline. Furthermore, to me, suggesting "a little bruskness may help everyone move on easier" borders on the outlandish. "Look kids - neither of you could cut it here. You're better off. We're better off. So get over it." Is that really where we want to go?


I reckon "Husky WBB Fan" makes a fair point (however expressed) in response to doggy's presumption on the ladies state of mind. By his own admission, "I have never met Engeln and Johnson.... I have met and spoken with Geno MANY times."

While this may qualify doggy to express an informed opinion on coach's motives and the coach's opinion / perception of the two players sensibilities, it hardly positions him to speak to the players themselves.

To me stating almost as fact, "I am certain that both Engeln and Johnson would be laughing at you <sic> take on this" is unreservedly presumptuous and belittling, and Husky WBB Fan is justified in taking offense.


As for the discussion itself, coach speaks to a significantly expanded audience in the direct aftermath of the Olympics. Whatever his motives, his intent, etc... I believe he will be read as mean spirited, self-serving and inappropriate by those unfamiliar with coach or otherwise predisposed to see him in a positive fashion, as most of us are. "Don't blame me for losing these kids. They couldn't hack it here."

As such, I don't believe his comments serve anyone well - himself, the institution, or the players. In my opinion, much better to offer what Ice refers to as "insincere drivel" and leave it at that.

 

[UConnCat]

Since I've taken a few personal shots in this stream, I'm going to reply:

1. Just exactly how can someone interpret the following as Geno saying the two players were a drain on themselves and not the team? I've had a pretty successful career reading and interpreting text, but I can't create the benefit of the doubt from the words below that others are trying to give GA.

Earlier in this thread (post #12), context was provided by David Siegel of Dishin & Swishin who was one of the reporters present at the press gathering. David wrote the following in agreeing with MilfordHusky's post interpreting Geno's comments:

Sometimes I wish people could see Geno or hear the voice inflection when things are said. He was by no means being mean about the specific kids involved, he was talking about the pace and speed of practice for a team like UConn.

Although you deem yourself quite accomplished at reading and interpreting text, there are others who understand that what appears in text does not always tell you the speaker's full meaning or intent. I trust David's take and I don't think he's signed any oaths regarding Geno or the program.

 

[doggydaddy]

Earlier in this thread (post #12), context was provided by David Siegel of Dishin & Swishin who was one of the reporters present at the press gathering. David wrote the following in agreeing with MilfordHusky's post interpreting Geno's comments:

Sometimes I wish people could see Geno or hear the voice inflection when things are said. He was by no means being mean about the specific kids involved, he was talking about the pace and speed of practice for a team like UConn.

Although you deem yourself quite accomplished at reading and interpreting text, there are others who understand that what appears in text does not always tell you the speaker's full meaning or intent. I trust David's take and I don't think he's signed any oaths regarding Geno or the program.

Thank for reposting that Cat.

 

[Bestiarius]

Regarding Geno’ comment - I’ll wager that most fans already had that opinion or something like it so it’s no big revelation. Yes, he could have used a few thoughtful euphemisms to soften the verbiage, but it wouldn’t change anything as far as what we thought.

I believe these two young ladies are too strong in spirit to be bothered by what Geno said. They put their reputation on the line every time they took the floor. Missed shots are not ego or confidence builders, but still they were eager to get out on the court and take that chance.

Our society’s penchant for coddling and making every child important, of being careful not to bruise egos, of giving a trophy to everyone regardless of performance, does no one a favor. It cheats the victor and deceives those who failed, perhaps thinking they have succeeded.

I certainly don’t think less of Engeln & Johnson because of what Geno said. They gave it their all at Uconn and it didn’t work out as expected. They recognized their desires could be best satisfied elsewhere. Good for them for taking action and going after what they want. I admire them greatly.

 

[Phil]

A little bit harsher than I would have liked, but he did say good for them and well as good for us, so it's s little misleading to cite the "blessing for us" without including the "blessings for them". He was making the interesting point that some decisions aren't zero-sum games, that both sides can benefit.

For differing reasons, those two never reached the potential some had hoped. Realistically, they will only get garbage minutes at UConn, possibly a couple more minutes in a couple years, but they aren't going to get Gardler minutes here, and they may get starter minutes elsewhere.

 

[meganmatthews]

Direct and to the point. Maybe Geno should have described it like you just did.

 

[RadyLady]

Rady
Certainly Geno, as a public figure, has to be held to a higher standard than a mere poster on a message board.

Seriously? Did you read Cat's reposting of what David Siegel said? To some folks, Geno may be perfect, but just not perfect enough for their standards.

 

[RadyLady]

*Sigh* What does it take to get a thread locked?

 

[doggydaddy]

Seriously? Did you read Cat's reposting of what David Siegel said? To some folks, Geno may be perfect, but just not perfect enough for their standards.

He hurt those poor girls feelings. And we know this because grown ups were hurt by reading it.