Jim Fuller: Geno not concerned about 11 player roster | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Jim Fuller: Geno not concerned about 11 player roster

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msf22b

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I am a loyal UConn fan but I'm not a zealot apologist either (as my record indicates) and although I wouldn't characterize Geno's words by using the bus metaphor, I don't think his remarks indicate a paragon of sensitivity either. Especially, in the light of his coming home with such a well-earned triumph, these remarks strike me as slightly small-minded and unnecessary. Does anyone think that these words aside, that he would have preferred that these lovely young ladies stay, so as to not raise any questions as to team loyalty and morale? And if you were an undecided kid, looking at next season's juggernaut lineup, might not these words be a bit discouraging?
 
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I dink dis guy meant dis functional aspect of UConn is simply incomparable da most a dees programs. And if youse don't get dis it don't matter how many of dem 5 star atletes youse get lettin' dem all articulate to and from yur place ain't gonna help. Kabeesh.

Me and me friends will be convincing dis guy dat dat is certoinly is what he meant no matta what no doitle dinks. I ope dis helps youse. OK. Danks.

Excuse me, but would you mind translating this into English?

At whose expense were you trying to be funny?

Who benefits from this post?

IMO, It certainly has no connection to UConn Women's Basketball.

John Fryer
 
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Me, Iz luv me some doitle zoup.



No Doitle Zoup for You!!
Soup-Nazi.jpg
 

Zorro

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Der Padre zeems to haff caught himzelf un schlight case uf der Katzenjammers, hein?
 

Icebear

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Excuse me, but would you mind translating this into English?

At whose expense were you trying to be funny?

Who benefits from this post?

IMO, It certainly has no connection to UConn Women's Basketball.

John Fryer

Jeez, John, I just listened to Sheldon Leonard play Butch on the Damon Runyan Theater on Old Time Radio. Butch is a classic character created by Runyan and Leonard. He occasionally helped people to know things. I could send him by so you can meet him.
 

Ozzie Nelson

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Geno is a genuine basketball coach, not a diplomat or therapist. He sez what he means, and means what he sez. If any recruit has a thin skin, UCONN is not for them. Isn’t that neat, no less unusual, in this world of pig’s ear called silk purse.
 

meyers7

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Excuse me, but would you mind translating this into English?

At whose expense were you trying to be funny?

Who benefits from this post?

IMO, It certainly has no connection to UConn Women's Basketball.

John Fryer
Don't worry about it John. :rolleyes:
 
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I am a loyal UConn fan but I'm not a zealot apologist either (as my record indicates) and although I wouldn't characterize Geno's words by using the bus metaphor, I don't think his remarks indicate a paragon of sensitivity either. Especially, in the light of his coming home with such a well-earned triumph, these remarks strike me as slightly small-minded and unnecessary. Does anyone think that these words aside, that he would have preferred that these lovely young ladies stay, so as to not raise any questions as to team loyalty and morale? And if you were an undecided kid, looking at next season's juggernaut lineup, might not these words be a bit discouraging?


As another very loyal UConn WBB fan I have to agree. I don't like the bus metaphor either. But Geno could have either used better phrasing to not seem harsh to players who he, after all, did bring in, but who were not ultimately able to perform at his preferred level (or) just thought the concept but not verbalized it (sometimes silence really is the preferred option). I can see his words being placed in front of recruits considering options....
 

Ozzie Nelson

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Geno is well known to all…if these words dissuade, then so be it. As I said elsewhere here today, UCONN is not a safe harbor for thin skins or those who are faint of heart…DT is the role model, not Dr Phil.
 
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My opinion - I do not like the quote at all.

Coach is a Hall of Famer - possibly the most respected women's basketball coach in the world. His words have impact far greater than our little community here in CT. And not everyone will read them with the same, "Oh that's just Geno being Geno" sensibility that a great number of folks here do.

These are college juniors, not professionals. Young women who, last time I checked hadn’t done anything wrong. They were recruited to come to UConn, did what they were told, studied and achieved good grades, and were good teammates.

And now they must speak to this very public statement by the most visible off the court figure in women's basketball.

"They were not going to play this season. Now we have 11 players who, for the most part, are all going to play and will in some way be deserving to play, and that will even help our practices be more competitive."

Implication: these two players were not only never going to play, but they were not "in some way deserving to play." And that their failures were so complete, that were not able to even help make "practices be more competitive."

Why even go where Coach went? To explain that this wasn't his failure, it was theirs? To me - this is just not on.

Why not, “Look, it just turned out that - despite the best efforts of the school and the players themselves - UConn wasn’t a great fit for them. It happens. These are two great kids who will do well wherever they go. I hope they enjoyed their 2 years at UConn as much as we enjoyed having them here. I and the rest of the team wish them success wherever they go. Except when they play us, of course!!”

All the usual disclaimers about what Coach means to the state of CT, the women's hoops program in specific, basketball in general, and the lives women who come through it apply.

But NOBODY'S perfect. We've all read - and Coach readily admits - he sometimes opens his mouth and "stuff" comes out (didn't he say that one of those times his wife wouldn't speak to him for a week?).

To me, Coach might have been better served giving a little more respect and gratitude to the two young women, whose signing days must have been among the happiest in their young lives, and who spent the last two years as part of this program.
 

UcMiami

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I think everyone has a tendency to parse words a little too closely. (Please see current political discourse!!!)
I thought Geno was very gracious when the transfers first came out. I think he was quite truthful in his statements yesterday. None of us know what goes on in the offices or on the practice floor.
I remember Kiah saying in the middle of last year that one of the coaches told her that none of her teammates wanted to play on the same team with her in practice! That could have been devastating to a player, but instead it motivated her to change her approach to practice and marked the turning point for her in terms of contributions in games. High stakes WCBB is TOUGH and is definitely not for everyone.
Players like Gardler, the Valley girls, Conlin, and Fernandez did not have the skills that many of their teammates had, but they were tough enough to compete in practice and in what game time they got. They learned, they contributed, and they thrived, and they had a lot of fun along the way.
In a team game if you have players who are 100% committed to the team, having a player that is only 95% committed can be a drag on everyone else including the coaches. I think that was all Geno was saying. And skill is a very minor part of the equation - it doesn't take skill to be in the right place at the right time, to set the right screen or to make the correct pass or to box out the right player. The shot might not go in, the rebound might be lost, but if you are in the right place at the right time your teammates can count on you.
 

msf22b

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My fear is that in the future, some independent young woman or parent (most likely not these well-mannered two) will fire back with a litinany of complaints and annecdotes and even if none rise to the level of disrepute (and we all don't think that that would happen), the resulting controversy would be unwelcome. especially now. Consider: a resounding international success, splendid prospects for the season and an unwelcome lawsuit. Certainly the wrong time for dispute.

Snowkot's statement above has it just about right.
 

RadyLady

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One asks oneself....how far off does the off season go when one's off season's off is off?
 
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Oh, please. First of all, what kind of hypothetical player is going to make these kind of statements - assuming that there is even any dirt to expose ? Nobody, that's who. Because with the kind of team success you enjoy at UConn, there is nobody that would not come off as extreme sour grapes to do any such thing.

Now, here is Geno's point that his detractors cannot seem to grasp: Improving is all about competition. If Bria Hartley is competing with Brianna Banks in practice and both of them have the same grasp of the offense and defense and put forth the same effort, then it doesn't matter if Bria is stronger, more experienced, or even more talented - competing against Banks makes Bria a better player. And when you can say that about all 11 players on the roster, then every minute of every practice results in positive gains. On the other hand, when Bria Hartley is competing, for instance, against Lauren Engeln, and can get by her and easily go to the rim either because Lauren was out of position or not putting forth 100% effort, that doesn't make Bria a better player. In fact, since it is unlikly that she would face ANY defender on a decent team that would be comparable, that moment of practice was completely wasted.

That is Geno's point. And the only defense Geno needs is that it happens to be the truth. There is no need to coddle anyone in this world. Least of all when they are associated with one of the most successful organizations of its kind in the world. I've defended Jim Calhoun on exactly the same grounds. That quote isn't just Geno being Geno, it is a direct result of the kind of personality that MAKES Geno who he is. And if you like the outcome of that personality, if you like watching his team in the final four every year, then you are kinda inclined to take the rough edges. You can lament his "unnecessary" remarks all you want, but you are lamenting part of what makes Geno the coach that puts his team in the final four every year.
My fear is that in the future, some independent young woman or parent (most likely not these well-mannered two) will fire back with a litinany of complaints and annecdotes and even if none rise to the level of disrepute (and we all don't think that that would happen), the resulting controversy would be unwelcome. especially now. Consider: a resounding international success, splendid prospects for the season and an unwelcome lawsuit. Certainly the wrong time for dispute.

Snowkot's statement above has it just about right.
 

Icebear

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My fear is that in the future, some independent young woman or parent (most likely not these well-mannered two) will fire back with a litinany of complaints and annecdotes and even if none rise to the level of disrepute (and we all don't think that that would happen), the resulting controversy would be unwelcome. especially now. Consider: a resounding international success, splendid prospects for the season and an unwelcome lawsuit. Certainly the wrong time for dispute.

Snowkot's statement above has it just about right.

Unless, of course, snow and your assumptions about how these things take place is completely off base. Since none of us outside the program have a clue as to life inside the program other than the glimpse we received through Mel there is nothing to indicate those assumptions by Snow are right and not already managed throughout the process.
 
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I think everyone has a tendency to parse words a little too closely. (Please see current political discourse!!!)
I thought Geno was very gracious when the transfers first came out. I think he was quite truthful in his statements yesterday. None of us know what goes on in the offices or on the practice floor.
I remember Kiah saying in the middle of last year that one of the coaches told her that none of her teammates wanted to play on the same team with her in practice! That could have been devastating to a player, but instead it motivated her to change her approach to practice and marked the turning point for her in terms of contributions in games. High stakes WCBB is TOUGH and is definitely not for everyone.
Players like Gardler, the Valley girls, Conlin, and Fernandez did not have the skills that many of their teammates had, but they were tough enough to compete in practice and in what game time they got. They learned, they contributed, and they thrived, and they had a lot of fun along the way.
In a team game if you have players who are 100% committed to the team, having a player that is only 95% committed can be a drag on everyone else including the coaches. I think that was all Geno was saying. And skill is a very minor part of the equation - it doesn't take skill to be in the right place at the right time, to set the right screen or to make the correct pass or to box out the right player. The shot might not go in, the rebound might be lost, but if you are in the right place at the right time your teammates can count on you.


Hey, look at his entire statement. No parsing needed. He said what he said, very clearly:
"Some kids who take a chance on and they get here and it doesn't work out. You agree 1st sentence refers to Michala and Lauren? While they are here and it is not working out, it is a drain. I know everybody loves to see them in the last two minutes 'oh aren't they cute and why aren't they playing more?' They you agree the they refers to Michala and Lauren? don't realize it is a drain because they you agree the they refers to Michal and Lauren? can't keep up with everybody at practice and it make it difficult so going into the season feeling like it is going to be more competitive than ever."

So Geno says they were a drain on the team and didn't even realize it.

So if in mid season none of the girls wanted to play on the same team as Kiah, did they say the same thing about Lauren and Michala and if not why not?

What makes you think Ashlye Valley and Fernandez were so tough in practice and games. Saw plenty of weak efforts by both in games, even in scrub minutes. I still remember Ashley Valley almost single handedly losing the opening game at NC the year after DT left. Is it because they didn't transfer, were content to let their college eligibility go by while they did high 5's on 3 pointers.

I like that Michala and Lauren have enough umph in them to decide to go where they can play. If Geno wants to say it wasn't working out, he should know if it was a drain, and if he feels like telling all the fans it was a drain, its on him. I didn't need to know that, but know I guess I have to adjust my thinking about those two if I want to be consistent with Geno's picture of "two players who were a drain in practice and couldn't keep up and didn't even realize it (assuming Geno is so straight forward he would have told them they weren't keeping up and were a drain, and for them not to realize it they must be pretty dense).

For what I know the girls have said nothing but the best about their time at Uconn and Geno.

Now as to competitive practices and a drain, guess Kyle wasn't a drain trying to practice while being a bit heavy. Ol' Steph must have been a real terror last year in those 2 hour drills seeing how she showed her stamina so well in games.
 
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Unless, of course, snow and your assumptions about how these things take place is completely off base. Since none of us outside the program have a clue as to life inside the program other than the glimpse we received through Mel there is nothing to indicate those assumptions by Snow are right and not already managed throughout the process.

And what assumptions might those be, Ice? I just re-read my post. I offered my opinions and Coach's quotes. The only thing close to an assumption was this:

"Implication: these two players were not only never going to play, but they were not "in some way deserving to play." And that their failures were so complete, that were not able to even help make "practices be more competitive" which features Coach's quotes. I maintain that those implications are not that big of a leap at all.

This is simple stuff - you agree or you don't.

Facts are these two girls were recruited, never evidenced any public sign of trouble or difficulty in their 2 years. They (publicly) accepted their diminished roles with grace. They were active on the bench - cheering for their teammates, with Michala fulfilling the Tahira Williams high-five role.

I never read a single negative quote from either of them. To this moment, they appear to have handled their transfers in like fashion. Quiet, no parting shots at UConn, or their teammates. As I remember, Michala cited nothing but positives about her UConn experience.

Not a single McKayla Maroney moment for either of them, despite the like pronunciation of Maroney's and Johnson's first name. ;)

As such I stand by my original post - Coach's comments were just not on.
 

Icebear

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So Geno says they were a drain on the team and didn't even realize it.
....

I like that Michala and Lauren have enough umph in them to decide to go where they can play. If Geno wants to say it wasn't working out, he should know if it was a drain, and if he feels like telling all the fans it was a drain, its on him. I didn't need to know that, but know I guess I have to adjust my thinking about those two if I want to be consistent with Geno's picture of "two players who were a drain in practice and couldn't keep up and didn't even realize it (assuming Geno is so straight forward he would have told them they weren't keeping up and were a drain, and for them not to realize it they must be pretty dense).

I read that as the drain being on them, not the team. Ultimately, they feeling the weight of this drain choose to find places where the drain and demand of the program is reduced and more offset with the rewards, playing time and family and opportunity to be closer to home, help to offset that drain.
 

meyers7

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I read that as the drain being on them, not the team. Ultimately, they feeling the weight of this drain choose to find places where the drain and demand of the program is reduced and more offset with the rewards, playing time and family and opportunity to be closer to home, help to offset that drain.
Yea I kinda thought he might have been talking about the drain being on them. idk, just my first impression as I read it.
 
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Lots of insightful thoughts offered. None of us have direct knowledge of the specific circumstances from Geno or the players, so we are all shooting from the hip [although many BYers seem to think they know Geno and the program well, but I fail to understand just how they believe their "knowledge" to be accurate].

I find it compelling that Geno went public with comments that I fail to find constructive in any way, whereas the girls did not at any time make such public comments or representations (at least that I am aware of). Geno is supposed to be the experienced and wise adult in these interactions, right?! He is the one who ultimately invited them here, correct?!?

My bottom line is that I just fail to find his comments constructive or useful, so why bother making them in the first place? Does he or the program need that after the olympic high?
 

doggydaddy

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Lots of insightful thoughts offered. None of us have direct knowledge of the specific circumstances from Geno or the players, so we are all shooting from the hip [although many BYers seem to think they know Geno and the program well, but I fail to understand just how they believe their "knowledge" to be accurate].

I find it compelling that Geno went public with comments that I fail to find constructive in any way, whereas the girls did not at any time make such public comments or representations (at least that I am aware of). Geno is supposed to be the experienced and wise adult in these interactions, right?! He is the one who ultimately invited them here, correct?!?

My bottom line is that I just fail to find his comments constructive or useful, so why bother making them in the first place? Does he or the program need that after the olympic high?
I'm just stunned that you dismiss folks who are close to the program and make a statement disparaging Geno while admitting you don't know.
 

doggydaddy

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Yea I kinda thought he might have been talking about the drain being on them. idk, just my first impression as I read it.
You are correct with your impression. Some folks just have to look at things in a negative way.
 

Icebear

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snow, just to answer your question. I wasn't implying you post was wrong or you weren't entitled to an opinion. Rather I was making a point about the assumption you make and how they might well shift if we knew more. My notes are in bold italics.

My opinion - I do not like the quote at all.

Coach is a Hall of Famer - possibly the most respected women's basketball coach in the world. His words have impact far greater than our little community here in CT. And not everyone will read them with the same, "Oh that's just Geno being Geno" sensibility that a great number of folks here do.

These are college juniors, not professionals. Young women who, last time I checked hadn’t done anything wrong. They were recruited to come to UConn, did what they were told, studied and achieved good grades, and were good teammates.

Very true. All indications are that they were great teammates.

And now they must speak to this very public statement by the most visible off the court figure in women's basketball.

Maybe yes, maybe no. It is very likely they do not need to address it at all. If so, I wonder to whom?

"They were not going to play this season. Now we have 11 players who, for the most part, are all going to play and will in some way be deserving to play, and that will even help our practices be more competitive."

Implication: these two players were not only never going to play, but they were not "in some way deserving to play." And that their failures were so complete, that were not able to even help make "practices be more competitive."

Why even go where Coach went? To explain that this wasn't his failure, it was theirs? To me - this is just not on.

Simply stating something probably already discussed with the kids, we don't know. Maybe even observations the kids made to him and/or the staff as they tried to make their decisions. We just don't know. It may well be nothing more than stating what the kids, Lauren and Michala, were already expressing and Geno was doing what he frequently does, taking the heat off the kids.

Why not, “Look, it just turned out that - despite the best efforts of the school and the players themselves - UConn wasn’t a great fit for them. It happens. These are two great kids who will do well wherever they go. I hope they enjoyed their 2 years at UConn as much as we enjoyed having them here. I and the rest of the team wish them success wherever they go. Except when they play us, of course!!”

Never heard Geno speak like that, ever. Plus it comes off as the type of insincere press drivel that everyone hates and then questions anyway. Such comments always end up sounding like what is he covering up. Plus a little bruskness may help everyone move on easier.

All the usual disclaimers about what Coach means to the state of CT, the women's hoops program in specific, basketball in general, and the lives women who come through it apply.

But NOBODY'S perfect. We've all read - and Coach readily admits - he sometimes opens his mouth and "stuff" comes out (didn't he say that one of those times his wife wouldn't speak to him for a week?).

Yup, happens sometimes and add to that the post Olympic emotional let down and fatigue and it wouldn't be surprising that he might do it differently given a second chance maybe not.

To me, Coach might have been better served giving a little more respect and gratitude to the two young women, whose signing days must have been among the happiest in their young lives, and who spent the last two years as part of this program.

Maybe, maybe not. That was the point of my what if the underlying assumptions were wrong. Hope that helps. I wasn't criticizing you or just noting other possibilities exist. One very real one was the he was talking about the drain on Lauren and Michala, as well as, the team not in a negative way but a realistic way. Kind of like the rest of the team wanting to bring Lauren and Michala along in skills and growth on the court and being frustrated, disappointed they couldn't and realizing their friends were going to get less and less time as the new talent came in. Michala and Lauren were to all signs great teammates and that can make the team want to protect them all the more.

Be frustrated, angry and disappointed Geno didn't say it better but know that that is just another possibility of what he wants.

Michala left quickly after the season. She seemed to have a goal she was moving towards that was more defined, playing near home and with her sister. Little doubt this made the decision easier. Lauren took considerably longer possibly because she did not have a clear vision drawing her to it only a recognition that with the returning team and the talent coming in her opportunities at UConn for playing time and contributing even in practice were going to be diminished. Finally, she made a decision that finding other opportunities would be better for her and her aspirations than remaining at UConn. Tough hard reality and a challenge for any young person to face, but she did and more power to her.

Note: I am not saying that any of the above is a better assumption than yours and , simply that there are ample other possibilities than those you built you comments upon.
 
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