January UConn Recruiting Thread | Page 8 | The Boneyard

January UConn Recruiting Thread

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oldude said:
Coco, I agree with pretty much every point you make in the preceding post. It is the one comment from your prior post that I respectfully disagree with.

While Mir’s lack of effort in a handful of defensive sequences may well be concerning to some, based on my observations of Aubrey, Paige and countless other UConn WBB recruits, it is hardly “surprising.”
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The reason it was surprising to me is because everything I'd read and seen indicated to me that her motor and competitiveness were her major assets. I too would like to see the full game to see if she's picking her spots to play hard. HS games are only 32 minutes and they usually only play a couple a week other than tourneys. If a coach lets any of his kids pick spots, he's cheating the kid on their future development and the kid's teammates in that game. With any of these HS stars, if the coach isn't demanding effort non stop they're not doing his/her job.
 
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Or Mir could have been dealing with the nasty cold that is sweeping through the Baltimore area. And Saylor may have been spreading the ball around to her team mates because they had more and better open looks. Isn't speculation fun?

Since I don't think any of us were there to watch the entire game we really just don't know now, do we?
 
Ozimoto said:
Or Mir could have been dealing with the nasty cold that is sweeping through the Baltimore area. And Saylor may have been spreading the ball around to her team mates because they had more and better open looks. Isn't speculation fun?

Since I don't think any of us were there to watch the entire game we really just don't know now, do we?
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On the former, nah, she had plenty of energy on the offensive end(27 pts). On the latter, probably.
 
BobbyJ said:
The reason it was surprising to me is because everything I'd read and seen indicated to me that her motor and competitiveness were her major assets. I too would like to see the full game to see if she's picking her spots to play hard. HS games are only 32 minutes and they usually only play a couple a week other than tourneys. If a coach lets any of his kids pick spots, he's cheating the kid on their future development and the kid's teammates in that game. With any of these HS stars, if the coach isn't demanding effort non stop they're not doing his/her job.
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While I agree with your comments in general, I have a couple related thoughts. One has to do with watching highlights vs full game videos.

If Saylor had 13 pts in the game, at most she had 6 made shots, and less if she hit more than one 3-pt shot or more than 1 ft. If she was 6/10 or even 6/15 vs tough competition, that’s pretty good. But if Saylor was 6/20+, either Mir did a pretty good job of defending her or she had a really poor shooting night.

My second point has to do with our expectations of teenagers. Many of us here on the BY are senior citizens. Teenagers minds work far differently than old farts like us. Who knows what in the hell Mir might have been thinking about for the handful of sequences when Saylor scored? Thinking back to the dark ages, when I was once a teenager, I was known for a lot of things. Consistency was not one of them.

One last example of what I’m talking about. With Geno in attendance, during Megan Walker’s 3rd straight VA State HS championship with her Monacan HS teammates, Megan was downright pedestrian for 3 qtrs of the game, and Monacan fell behind by double digits entering the 4th qtr. In the 4th qtr Megan woke up, took over the game and scored 20+ pts as Monacan won their 3rd straight state championship.

After the game Geno congratulated Megan and gave her a big hug. He also told her that, “If you can do that in the 4th qtr, you can also do that in the first three qtrs.”

One of the reasons why top recruits come to UConn is because they know that Geno will get the very best out of them. Unlike HS, and many college programs as well, nothing but your best is acceptable at UConn.
 
I realize that those were highlights, but dang - she moves well, goes AFTER rebounds, and has a very nice handle bringing the ball up the court FAST, especially for a 6'3 or 6'4" player. This kid is going to be special. Oh, and how about the nice form on the mid-range shots? I've seen her make 3's too.
 
EricLA said:
I realize that those were highlights, but dang - she moves well, goes AFTER rebounds, and has a very nice handle bringing the ball up the court FAST, especially for a 6'3 or 6'4" player. This kid is going to be special. Oh, and how about the nice form on the mid-range shots? I've seen her make 3's too.
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You're referring to Brady I assume.
 
oldude said:
While I agree with your comments in general, I have a couple related thoughts. One has to do with watching highlights vs full game videos.

If Saylor had 13 pts in the game, at most she had 6 made shots, and less if she hit more than one 3-pt shot or more than 1 ft. If she was 6/10 or even 6/15 vs tough competition, that’s pretty good. But if Saylor was 6/20+, either Mir did a pretty good job of defending her or she had a really poor shooting night.

My second point has to do with our expectations of teenagers. Many of us here on the BY are senior citizens. Teenagers minds work far differently than old farts like us. Who knows what in the hell Mir might have been thinking about for the handful of sequences when Saylor scored? Thinking back to the dark ages, when I was once a teenager, I was known for a lot of things. Consistency was not one of them.

One last example of what I’m talking about. With Geno in attendance, during Megan Walker’s 3rd straight VA State HS championship with her Monacan HS teammates, Megan was downright pedestrian for 3 qtrs of the game, and Monacan fell behind by double digits entering the 4th qtr. In the 4th qtr Megan woke up, took over the game and scored 20+ pts as Monacan won their 3rd straight state championship.

After the game Geno congratulated Megan and gave her a big hug. He also told her that, “If you can do that in the 4th qtr, you can also do that in the first three qtrs.”

One of the reasons why top recruits come to UConn is because they know that Geno will get the very best out of them. Unlike HS, and many college programs as well, nothing but your best is acceptable at UConn.
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On your first point, two things, from what I see I don't get the sense that SP is a pure shooter and with the lack of defensive fundamentals I saw from MM I believe SP may have just missed shots. On your second point, that's why I pointed the finger at the coach. MM seems to be a very intelligent kid and those kids tend to get the message if you take the time to explain to them why giving total effort at all times in to their's and the team's benefit. That's a competent coach's job. Auriemma will get the fundamentals fixed because of her superior athleticism, but he won't mess around with any lack of effort. He'll have too many alternatives.
 
BobbyJ said:
On your first point, two things, from what I see I don't get the sense that SP is a pure shooter and with the lack of defensive fundamentals I saw from MM I believe SP may have just missed shots. On your second point, that's why I pointed the finger at the coach. MM seems to be a very intelligent kid and those kids tend to get the message if you take the time to explain to them why giving total effort at all times in to their benefit. That's a competent coach's job. Auriemma will get the fundamentals fixed because of her superior athleticism, but he won't mess around with any lack of effort. He'll have too many alternatives.
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Yes. But I’d still like to see the full game video.
 
HopJim said:
Many have talked about leaving Texas. Few did.
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What I wonder when I see the GREAT scoring by HS players:
If a player get an average of say 25 points then typically what does that player average as Jr in college, Soph, Frosh???? Typically it looks like (no stats, no math) those big time scorers are rarely above 10 point average often 6 or less---just a guestimation. STAT FOLKS, what is the TRUTH??
 
Ozimoto said:
Or Mir could have been dealing with the nasty cold that is sweeping through the Baltimore area. And Saylor may have been spreading the ball around to her team mates because they had more and better open looks. Isn't speculation fun?

Since I don't think any of us were there to watch the entire game we really just don't know now, do we?
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you are absolutely right...............there's no way to make a judgement about a player's work ethic unless you viewed the game in it's entirety...........as a matter of fact I don't think you can make a blanket judgement about any player's effort unless you watch many of their games in full....................
 
Charliebball said:
you are absolutely right...............there's no way to make a judgement about a player's work ethic unless you viewed the game in it's entirety...........as a matter of fact I don't think you can make a blanket judgement about any player's effort unless you watch many of their games in full....................
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Those judgements were made in part because it was in stark contrast to what we were told previously and many of us observed about Mir's work ethic and motor. One of the prior videos of Mir that was posted here showed her very effectively guarding 6'7" Cardosa. She wasn't taking off any plays in this video which featured about half a dozen high D1 prospects.

PrestoStream

portal.stretchinternet.com
 
Effort is hard to judge when up big in a game. Easier to judge when behind. Yes you should go hard all the time. Lack of effort when behind to me is just inexcusable.
 
Bellemare said:
What I wonder when I see the GREAT scoring by HS players:
If a player get an average of say 25 points then typically what does that player average as Jr in college, Soph, Frosh???? Typically it looks like (no stats, no math) those big time scorers are rarely above 10 point average often 6 or less---just a guestimation. STAT FOLKS, what is the TRUTH??
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There is a formula. To get the average score for their freshman year, take their HS avg. score and divide it by 3. Then subtract their age. Finally divide their date of birth by the number 2.5. Voilà, there you have it! Calculating their sophomore year is slightly more complicated.
 
EricLA said:
I realize that those were highlights, but dang - she moves well, goes AFTER rebounds, and has a very nice handle bringing the ball up the court FAST, especially for a 6'3 or 6'4" player. This kid is going to be special. Oh, and how about the nice form on the mid-range shots? I've seen her make 3's too.
Expand ...

When was the last time Uconn had an athletic and big strong inside player that can shoot like Brady?
 
BobbyJ said:
On your first point, two things, from what I see I don't get the sense that SP is a pure shooter and with the lack of defensive fundamentals I saw from MM I believe SP may have just missed shots. On your second point, that's why I pointed the finger at the coach. MM seems to be a very intelligent kid and those kids tend to get the message if you take the time to explain to them why giving total effort at all times in to their's and the team's benefit. That's a competent coach's job. Auriemma will get the fundamentals fixed because of her superior athleticism, but he won't mess around with any lack of effort. He'll have too many alternatives.
Expand ...

Several years ago, on another board, a poster with extensive experience in Cal girls HS basketball responded to a post about KLS's lack of effort on defense and it's implications for her in college. What he said was that it is very common for a HS coach to specifically instruct his scoring stars to play soft defense. TThe rarest thing in girls HS basketball, according to this poster, was a prolific scorer, and their teams can't afford to have them on the bench in foul trouble. So if a coach does do that then it is excusable.

I never watched Walker in HS but I noticed in reading reports of her games on this board that she often got most of her points late in games, as was noted in another post. I wonder if team dynamics had anything to do with that. To many in sports, especially HS sports winning isn't everything. There is a social aspect to team sports, apart from winning. Young players who have no chance of a scholarship still want to be involved in their high school games and might resent a star "hogging" the scoring. When I was in HS in CT there was a player for N Britain HS who was a phenomenal guard. He was around 6' tall, handled the ball like a wizard and was deadly from outside. He would average about 40/game when 50 was a lot of points for a team. I learned later when I was in college that his team mates hated him and several quit the team despite the fact that he was the main reason they won. Sometimes I forget that HS kids are very concerned about how they are perceived by their peers. The elite players we follow are usually extremely better than 99% of the players they face and they may worry that if they play too hard it could be viewed by their peers as "rubbing it in" or unsportsmanlike. I am reminded of the film The Hustler, when Newman had his thumbs broken after destroying another hustler in pool. He was told by those breaking his thumbs that "we don't mind hustlers but we hate sharks".
I'm not saying this is the case but I do think it could be a factor.
I'll leave the job of measuring effort to Geno.
 
pvdoggy said:
How soon we forget:) but Brady looks more bulked up than Tuck although it certainly looks like similar playing style. So adding to my wish that Saylor will be at least as good as KLS, Brady to be at least as good as Tuck. Not asking a lot, am I?
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Brady appears to be a very good get but she is class of '22. That's 2.5 full season from now not sure UCONN can afford to wait that long to fill out that big PF position. Edwards is more of a wing & DeBerry and Gabriel are more post players. There is a better Tuck clone available sooner in '21-just sayin.
 
Alydar said:
Several years ago, on another board, a poster with extensive experience in Cal girls HS basketball responded to a post about KLS's lack of effort on defense and it's implications for her in college. What he said was that it is very common for a HS coach to specifically instruct his scoring stars to play soft defense. TThe rarest thing in girls HS basketball, according to this poster, was a prolific scorer, and their teams can't afford to have them on the bench in foul trouble. So if a coach does do that then it is excusable.

I never watched Walker in HS but I noticed in reading reports of her games on this board that she often got most of her points late in games, as was noted in another post. I wonder if team dynamics had anything to do with that. To many in sports, especially HS sports winning isn't everything. There is a social aspect to team sports, apart from winning. Young players who have no chance of a scholarship still want to be involved in their high school games and might resent a star "hogging" the scoring. When I was in HS in CT there was a player for N Britain HS who was a phenomenal guard. He was around 6' tall, handled the ball like a wizard and was deadly from outside. He would average about 40/game when 50 was a lot of points for a team. I learned later when I was in college that his team mates hated him and several quit the team despite the fact that he was the main reason they won. Sometimes I forget that HS kids are very concerned about how they are perceived by their peers. The elite players we follow are usually extremely better than 99% of the players they face and they may worry that if they play too hard it could be viewed by their peers as "rubbing it in" or unsportsmanlike. I am reminded of the film The Hustler, when Newman had his thumbs broken after destroying another hustler in pool. He was told by those breaking his thumbs that "we don't mind hustlers but we hate sharks".
I'm not saying this is the case but I do think it could be a factor.
I'll leave the job of measuring effort to Geno.
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Interesting analysis. But I don't think resentment of a teammate is confined to HS. We need only contemplate the situation with Chennedy Carter at TX A&M a couple years ago when both Anriel Howard and Danni Williams graduated early so they could transfer out to play elsewhere.
 
Alydar said:
Several years ago, on another board, a poster with extensive experience in Cal girls HS basketball responded to a post about KLS's lack of effort on defense and it's implications for her in college. What he said was that it is very common for a HS coach to specifically instruct his scoring stars to play soft defense. TThe rarest thing in girls HS basketball, according to this poster, was a prolific scorer, and their teams can't afford to have them on the bench in foul trouble. So if a coach does do that then it is excusable.

I never watched Walker in HS but I noticed in reading reports of her games on this board that she often got most of her points late in games, as was noted in another post. I wonder if team dynamics had anything to do with that. To many in sports, especially HS sports winning isn't everything. There is a social aspect to team sports, apart from winning. Young players who have no chance of a scholarship still want to be involved in their high school games and might resent a star "hogging" the scoring. When I was in HS in CT there was a player for N Britain HS who was a phenomenal guard. He was around 6' tall, handled the ball like a wizard and was deadly from outside. He would average about 40/game when 50 was a lot of points for a team. I learned later when I was in college that his team mates hated him and several quit the team despite the fact that he was the main reason they won. Sometimes I forget that HS kids are very concerned about how they are perceived by their peers. The elite players we follow are usually extremely better than 99% of the players they face and they may worry that if they play too hard it could be viewed by their peers as "rubbing it in" or unsportsmanlike. I am reminded of the film The Hustler, when Newman had his thumbs broken after destroying another hustler in pool. He was told by those breaking his thumbs that "we don't mind hustlers but we hate sharks".
I'm not saying this is the case but I do think it could be a factor.
I'll leave the job of measuring effort to Geno.
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Saying you would leave it to Geno to measure effort is an unworthy cop out. Geno does not post here and every posters is perfectly capable of viewing that clip or full game and determining if the level of effort was acceptable. You are also confusing a few concepts specifically these: soft defense is not the same as lack of effort. The latter was what I repeatedly saw in that clip and I will be looking at the full video in a few minutes.
 
Alydar said:
Several years ago, on another board, a poster with extensive experience in Cal girls HS basketball responded to a post about KLS's lack of effort on defense and it's implications for her in college. What he said was that it is very common for a HS coach to specifically instruct his scoring stars to play soft defense. TThe rarest thing in girls HS basketball, according to this poster, was a prolific scorer, and their teams can't afford to have them on the bench in foul trouble. So if a coach does do that then it is excusable.

I never watched Walker in HS but I noticed in reading reports of her games on this board that she often got most of her points late in games, as was noted in another post. I wonder if team dynamics had anything to do with that. To many in sports, especially HS sports winning isn't everything. There is a social aspect to team sports, apart from winning. Young players who have no chance of a scholarship still want to be involved in their high school games and might resent a star "hogging" the scoring. When I was in HS in CT there was a player for N Britain HS who was a phenomenal guard. He was around 6' tall, handled the ball like a wizard and was deadly from outside. He would average about 40/game when 50 was a lot of points for a team. I learned later when I was in college that his team mates hated him and several quit the team despite the fact that he was the main reason they won. Sometimes I forget that HS kids are very concerned about how they are perceived by their peers. The elite players we follow are usually extremely better than 99% of the players they face and they may worry that if they play too hard it could be viewed by their peers as "rubbing it in" or unsportsmanlike. I am reminded of the film The Hustler, when Newman had his thumbs broken after destroying another hustler in pool. He was told by those breaking his thumbs that "we don't mind hustlers but we hate sharks".
I'm not saying this is the case but I do think it could be a factor.
I'll leave the job of measuring effort to Geno.
Expand ...
I understand your point and that's fine for those coaches who are doing it to win games and trophies. For me it goes beyond that, it's about teaching the game and when you're lucky enough to have a high D1 talent, to teach them fundamentals and prepare them them for the next level the right way. Many HS coaches have managed to do that and still keep their jobs for 25-30 years. If you can't do that and also win then do the right thing for the whole program and the occasional high talent kid. That's just what I believe and how I did it.
 
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