OT: I'm trying to buy a new car...

[JMick]

If you need to drive in the snow, snow tires are better than AWD with all-season tires. AWD is a waste unless you're climbing a lot of hills or need to go off road

 

[HCope]

BMWs value drops like a rock once they are out of warranty.

To be fair, that trend describes just about every modern luxury car save for a few odd balls. If you buy a v6 panamera with options that double the msrp well I've got bad news for you as soon as you drive it off the lot. Conversely, I think you'll be doing quite well if you happened to have snagged a limited production car at msrp (Cayman GT4 or BMW 1M come to mind).

If resale value was the only way to go about car shopping we'd all be driving wranglers.

 

[Bliss]

If I ever have to buy another vehicle it will definitely be a Honda product. Like the CRV a lot but also think the Civic SI is really cool for an old car guy like me. Currently driving a supercharged V6 '04 Monte Carlo with 75K on the clock that I bought new. It's absolutely fantastic in every way and I love driving it. Repairs don't cost an arm and a leg and there haven't been many of those. Why would I want to invest (and, yes, I can afford it) in a newer vehicle?

In answer to the thread question - by all means buy a new or gently used Honda product.

 

[intlzncster]

This is not my thread, but the current leading contenders are Honda CRV and Mazda CX5. Anyone care to weigh in?

See my other post RE CX5's. They are awesome. My sister owns a CRV (I like it) and I own a CX-5. The one I got was pretty much best in class and often compared to the BMW x3. I have almost zero complaints about it. The only thing I'd say is that I prefer Honda's in-car digital infotainment system better than Mazda's. Not that Mazda's is bad per se, just that Honda has a better interface, with more capabilities. On the other hand, I don't think the dual digital screens of the Honda are a good feature though. Overkill.

And as Excaliber posts below, the CX-5 drives like a car.

The CRV is a reliabity legend but just about as boring as an engine 4 wheels can be. The newest model is a lot sportier though. I love what Mazda is doing and the CX-5 is great.

Second this. I know Hans is older, so babies aren't an issue.

The Mazda CX 5 and 9 are the only remaining crossovers/SUVs that actually drive like cars. We're six years/130k miles into our CX-9 and we are seriously considering replacing it with another one.

The new CX-9 is absolutely sick. I test drove it for fun, as I knew I wasn't getting one, but man. It's nice. Definitely check it out.

 

[SubbaBub]

Go buy an off lease Volvo S60.

/s

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

This cracks me up. My old beater died pulling into the dealer.so I walked out with a brand new Toyota 4Runner!

I was gonna get a used corrola yada yada yada I have a 50,000 dollar car loan.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Most people who can afford to buy new Audis and BMWs can afford to replace them every few years. I generally have stuck with more "mass market" brands for the reliability/cost of maintenance even though I can afford to go higher end -- I just don't want the trouble. I drive an A6 now only because the company leases it for me -- until I get rid of that perk for officers and replace it with a more traditional car allowance.

Agree on high end cars and repairs. But he's turbos, turbodiesels and direct injection engines are now offered on many mainstream cars less than $30k. And those owners traditionally don't have $1k of cash lying (or is it laying) around for engine repairs.

 

[huskeynut]

A lot of good info.

I have a son who is in the auto retail business. He is car smart and savy, knows his products, and is not afraid to tell the truth. His recommendations for car purchase, new or used, are Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Subaru and Lexus. As many have stated, German vehicles, while sheak and trendy, are expensive to maintain.

I have owned many brands - Chevy (big bad Impala), Olds (Cutlass convertible), Plymouth, Dodge, Ford (Granda, 2 Explorers), Honda Accord wagon and an Accord EX coupe and now Mazda6. My wife has owned an Olds, Mercury, several Ford Tauruses and is on her second Lexus - an ES350.

Both our present cars are predicted to go to 200,000+ miles. If you want luxury go for Lexus on the used market. If those are too high, look at Mazda6. You will be surprised at how far your dollar will go in a Mazda.

 

[intlzncster]

Somewhat OT but germane to sustainment cost of a vehicle I am curious how these high compression direct injection engines will hold up beyond 5-7 years and also how many of these turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines will hold up.

All these posters talking about 200k+ with Toyotas, Lexus and Hondas are doing it on bulletproof DOHC 4 or 6 cyl engines.

Basic DOHC, regular fuel. And they run forever, can be fixed by any mechanic, have a gluttony of supply spare parts and are inexpensive.

I know the newer turbos are way more reliable than older turbos but when they break, you're going to pay, fewer mechanics know how to fix them, fewer spares.

I too wonder about this. I'm coming from the perspective of a guy who owned a 93 Toyota Corolla up until last year, and did all the work on it himself. It still runs fine. Best car I've ever seen.

When I did research on the CX-5 (I keep mentioning it because that's the one I know the most about), I was sold on future durability. These aren't remotely the same engines as the Turbo of old, even semi recently. Whether that plays out in actuality remains to be seen.

Honestly, I'm a little more concerned about the electronics holding up over time than the engine itself. Computers are computers and can degrade from the strain of heavy use; these cars rely so heavily on them. And that ain't be a cheap repair either. Nor is it as simple as heading down to your local mechanic.

 

[Northbound]

I think we're up to 8 cars for two people now or maybe I should say down to as at one point we had 11.

I've got a fondness for E38 (740/750) BMW's. In fact I hunt low mileage ones simply because I think their the best looking and best example of BMW followed closely by the E39 and E28.

The cost to get in one is one thing, but you need to have the means to be able to proactively address maintenance needs. For example my 750 needed one rear shock, and I decided to replace both, change all fluids and new plugs and wires. So list for OEM Sachs shocks were $1700 each due to the SLS - I paid less. The V-12 has two notoriously hard to reach shocks so changing them is comically difficult which equals labor time. I can actually work on it but my arm is too big to reach into those plugs. I think the total bill was $3500 or something, maybe it was $4200 I can't remember. But for me I'd rather pay the occasional larger maintenance cost for something I love.

Go over to Bimmerboard and see what the issues are there's a ton of resources there.

Of course as folks have mentioned find a good indy that you trust. Only thing worse than a dealership is a bad indy.

 

[sledog]

To be fair, that trend describes just about every modern luxury car save for a few odd balls. If you buy a v6 panamera with options that double the msrp well I've got bad news for you as soon as you drive it off the lot. Conversely, I think you'll be doing quite well if you happened to have snagged a limited production car at msrp (Cayman GT4 or BMW 1M come to mind).

If resale value was the only way to go about car shopping we'd all be driving wranglers.

All my BMW re-sales have been at a decent premium to market / book price. I clean the engine every year with soap and water to remove the 'oily cud'. More efficient operation and looks great. I did add Koni racing shocks, shock tower braces, and heavier sway bars. Like I said the cars had been on the track, and NO engine issues - well I did have to replace an alternator at 210k miles once. Maybe the track stories add to the mystique and value? Otherwise, just new tires / brakes / oil / etc / and an occasional new gasket. Just luck - or good proactive care? I've heard stories at the garages about people that really abused the cars - 20k miles with no oil change, indy 500 syndrome = driving out of control, crappy brake pad replacement --> crash, etc, so this subset may be generating the bad press.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The status of car selling in America.

There's a new Honda Accord. Does anyone care?

Midsize sedans’ share of the total U.S. car market has fallen from 16.6% in 2009 to just 12% in 2016. It is a paltry 10.7% so far this year, according to Kelley Blue Book. Once a cash cow that generated healthy profits and filled massive assembly plants, the segment shows no sign of recovering from the tailspin.

That’s a big deal for every mainstream automaker, but a huge challenge for Toyota and Honda, whose biggest plants make midsize sedans. The Georgetown, Ky., plant that builds Camrys for America is the largest Toyota plant in the world. Honda’s sprawling complex west of Columbus, Ohio was the automaker’s first U.S. assembly plant. Honda has sold more than 13 million Accords since the car debuted in 1976.

Not even the most optimistic executive believes the new cars will maintain sales, much less recover to their historical levels. Victory for the Accord and Camry consists of managing the decline, surviving as other competitors drop out. Last man standing wins.

Honda foresaw trouble for sedans years ago. It responded by beefing up its truck lineup, adding the subcompact HR-V SUV and a new version of its Ridgeline pickup to catch the rising tide.

 

[intlzncster]

The status of car selling in America.

There's a new Honda Accord. Does anyone care?

Midsize sedans’ share of the total U.S. car market has fallen from 16.6% in 2009 to just 12% in 2016. It is a paltry 10.7% so far this year, according to Kelley Blue Book. Once a cash cow that generated healthy profits and filled massive assembly plants, the segment shows no sign of recovering from the tailspin.

That’s a big deal for every mainstream automaker, but a huge challenge for Toyota and Honda, whose biggest plants make midsize sedans. The Georgetown, Ky., plant that builds Camrys for America is the largest Toyota plant in the world. Honda’s sprawling complex west of Columbus, Ohio was the automaker’s first U.S. assembly plant. Honda has sold more than 13 million Accords since the car debuted in 1976.

Not even the most optimistic executive believes the new cars will maintain sales, much less recover to their historical levels. Victory for the Accord and Camry consists of managing the decline, surviving as other competitors drop out. Last man standing wins.

Honda foresaw trouble for sedans years ago. It responded by beefing up its truck lineup, adding the subcompact HR-V SUV and a new version of its Ridgeline pickup to catch the rising tide.

No surprise really. People either want big (SUV/Truck) or small (economy/fuel efficient/electric). Midsized is out. The only midsize that's working is the cross over, and that's cause people want SUV capability while still working like a car. There's the occasional muscle or Mercedes too.

 

[huskyinfl]

VW golf sportwagen owner. Love it, quick turbo engine that gets good mpg, more storage than many SUVs and low price. Has that solid German feel and comes with all the tech. Faster and bigger than Subaru for a lot less. 4th vw and I hope this will be the last car I ever drive - next car I buy will hopefully be driverless.

Since driverless is the future I wouldn't over look having one last blast on a fun driving car as hopefully by 2030 it's all automated.

 

[Kitaman]

A 2015 (11k miles) Hyundai Sonata is 15k:

I brought my wife a Genesis (much more expensive), but these cars are well made, with easy, not costly repairs. The price points are nice also.

 

[3rdbass]

I have owned an '86 Camaro Z28, '90 Acura Integra, '97 Nissan Maxima, '00 Maxima, '03 Infiniti FX 35, '14 Audi A6 3.0 and '17 Audi A6 3.0. I will say I loved the Audi brand the best. I just got a new one to replace my totalled '14. Lady hit it going 50 mph right on the wheel. The car didn't looked totaled but too much to fix near the tire. I also really loved the Infiniti as it was a big step up from Nissan. I have never had many issues with a car except for the camaro which made me never want an American car again. I would jump at a good luxury car as you can't replace the driving experience if you can get it at a good price and have a mechanic check it out.

 

[Robertelamin]

I too wonder about this. I'm coming from the perspective of a guy who owned a 93 Toyota Corolla up until last year, and did all the work on it himself. It still runs fine. Best car I've ever seen.

When I did research on the CX-5 (I keep mentioning it because that's the one I know the most about), I was sold on future durability. These aren't remotely the same engines as the Turbo of old, even semi recently. Whether that plays out in actuality remains to be seen.

Honestly, I'm a little more concerned about the electronics holding up over time than the engine itself. Computers are computers and can degrade from the strain of heavy use; these cars rely so heavily on them. And that ain't be a cheap repair either. Nor is it as simple as heading down to your local mechanic.

Damn, you should have slapped a classic car license plate on that Corolla and driven around like a boss.

 

[methodology]

If you need to drive in the snow, snow tires are better than AWD with all-season tires. AWD is a waste unless you're climbing a lot of hills or need to go off road

I disagree greatly with this statement. I've owned a4 Quattro, s60 awd, Subaru outback awd. Those all out performed my Saab 93 and 900 with snow tires and nissan maxima with snow tires in the snow.

I do a lot of snow plowing and I rarely see awd cars stuck can't say the same for non awd.

Anyway most advice in thread is spot on. German cars will hurt you in the pockets. They are fun to drive but repairs are pain in the ass.

Get a hyundai, Subaru, Toyota, Hondas or lexus if you want luxury.

 

[intlzncster]

Damn, you should have slapped a classic car license plate on that Corolla and driven around like a boss.

Honestly was holding out for it. Plate would be worth more than the car

 

[Durks07]

I appreciate all the feedback.

To try and consolidate the info in the four pages:

BMW: It appears that some people have great luck with them and love them, but the majority of the comments sounds the same concerns. It drives wonderfully, but will quarter and dollar me to death. I'm not sure I want that kind of a hassle.

Seems like the majority of people recommend either buying used or CPO and that Hondas and Mazdas get pretty good reviews.

 

[Durks07]

A lot of good info.

I have a son who is in the auto retail business. He is car smart and savy, knows his products, and is not afraid to tell the truth. His recommendations for car purchase, new or used, are Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Subaru and Lexus. As many have stated, German vehicles, while sheak and trendy, are expensive to maintain.

I have owned many brands - Chevy (big bad Impala), Olds (Cutlass convertible), Plymouth, Dodge, Ford (Granda, 2 Explorers), Honda Accord wagon and an Accord EX coupe and now Mazda6. My wife has owned an Olds, Mercury, several Ford Tauruses and is on her second Lexus - an ES350.

Both our present cars are predicted to go to 200,000+ miles. If you want luxury go for Lexus on the used market. If those are too high, look at Mazda6. You will be surprised at how far your dollar will go in a Mazda.

The Mazda 3 is very high on my list. Its getting close to the end of the model year, so I'm thinking about swooping in and getting a new one for around $14 - $15k. Should be doable with how low the dealerships are starting to list them.

 

[Fishy]

Don't buy a car yet - the thread is only four pages long.

We have at least eight more pages in us.

 

[Durks07]

Don't buy a car yet - the thread is only four pages long.

We have at least eight more pages in us.

We when car dies on the highway at rush hour, I'm going to regret this.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

The Mazda 3 is very high on my list. Its getting close to the end of the model year, so I'm thinking about swooping in and getting a new one for around $14 - $15k. Should be doable with how low the dealerships are starting to list them.

Don't bank on that prize. Maybe a Mazda 2.

 

[huskyinfl]

Don't buy a car yet - the thread is only four pages long.

We have at least eight more pages in us.

We still have to criticize whatever decision he makes.