OT: I'm trying to buy a new car...

[HooperScooper]

It's funny that people comment without actually reading the post. While he said new car in the title, he meant a new to him car and clearly said in the post that he is looking for a used BMW in the 15k range.

I've owned two BMWs and I'll likely get a third in another 3 or so years. But if I was looking for a quality used car in that price range, I would not look at BMW. They are great cars when they are under warranty, but they are expensive after that,

There are many good suggestions for quality nice cars. Buy a Beamer when you can afford a new one.

As a BMW owner I'd second that.

 

[TRest]

A Better Way in Naugutuck has the lowest prices on used cars and the biggest selection in New England. The car I got (a year old Hyundai Elantra with only 10k miles) was thousands less than it should have been, to the point the salesman told me to crash it into a tree and call the insurance to get more cash back than I paid.

I was doing a lot of research on getting used cars last year, that dealership has great inventory but literally does no prep work at. So buyer beware, they are just flipping cars. Get a used Japanese make, most have bullet proof engines.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

The most expensive car in the world is a cheap German car.

In our mid-20s, my future wife & I each owned a used Saab, and learned a durable version of this.

I buy new cars and dump them in 2-4 years because I like reliability, new safety features and honestly, I just like new stuff. I'm not really a fan of knowing some sweaty stranger farted in my driver seat a couple thousand times before I took over.

Your goal in a 3yr old Certified Pre-owned (off-lease) car is to buy a vehicle that was driven (fewer miles than you would have driven if you'd bought new) by someone who sweats and farts less than you do. Let someone else absorb the biggest depreciation hit.

As a practical matter, I visited Carmax a couple times last week and was able to wander a lot filled with unlocked cars, which allowed me to sit inside, compare dashboard controls, seats, storage, etc. for at least 8 different small SUVs in about 90 minutes before bringing Lady Hans to evaluate the top 3 choices. No salesperson 'bothered' us either visit.

Some time this week there will be visits to dealerships whose inventories we've looked into online, in addition to reviews suggested. The goal is to buy near the end of the month, when sales goals are in greater focus and negotiation tips more toward the buyer's interest.


This is not my thread, but the current leading contenders are Honda CRV and Mazda CX5. Anyone care to weigh in?

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

I didn't read all the posts...so I apologize if what I say is a repeat.

I have owned 3 BMWs and I am on my second Audi. I don't understand some of "finicky" comments about German cars.I have had very few issues other than standard service. But, I have always leased new and I don't put a lot of miles on a car.

If a lease can work for you...BMW does a great job of subsidizing leases and in general all service is included. If you can work within the mile allowance, it is a decent deal. I like leases because I get bored with cars and like to change every few years. If you like to keep a car a long time, then lease may not make sense.

Lastly, I hear that Costco has a car buying service which is supposed to be pretty good. Haven't used it yet, but I have heard good things.

Good luck!

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

A Better Way in Naugutuck has the lowest prices on used cars and the biggest selection in New England. The car I got (a year old Hyundai Elantra with only 10k miles) was thousands less than it should have been, to the point the salesman told me to crash it into a tree and call the insurance to get more cash back than I paid.

Don't you need a wholesale license to buy there? They always come up cheapest on auto trader but I thought only dealers could buy there (and most of the cars were lemons).

 

[HCope]

I didn't read all the posts...so I apologize if what I say is a repeat.

I have owned 3 BMWs and I am on my second Audi. I don't understand some of "finicky" comments about German cars.I have had very few issues other than standard service. But, I have always leased new and I don't put a lot of miles on a car.

If a lease can work for you...BMW does a great job of subsidizing leases and in general all service is included. If you can work within the mile allowance, it is a decent deal. I like leases because I get bored with cars and like to change every few years. If you like to keep a car a long time, then lease may not make sense.

Lastly, I hear that Costco has a car buying service which is supposed to be pretty good. Haven't used it yet, but I have heard good things.

Good luck!

BMW recently reduced the free maintenance plan to not include as much as it used to and I believe also shortened it's overall length. Still, covers a fair number of things just not as comprehensive as it was.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

In our mid-20s, my future wife & I each owned a used Saab, and learned a durable version of this.



Your goal in a 3yr old Certified Pre-owned (off-lease) car is to buy a vehicle that was driven (fewer miles than you would have driven if you'd bought new) by someone who sweats and farts less than you do. Let someone else absorb the biggest depreciation hit.

As a practical matter, I visited Carmax a couple times last week and was able to wander a lot filled with unlocked cars, which allowed me to sit inside, compare dashboard controls, seats, storage, etc. for at least 8 different small SUVs in about 90 minutes before bringing Lady Hans to evaluate the top 3 choices. No salesperson 'bothered' us either visit.

Some time this week there will be visits to dealerships whose inventories we've looked into online, in addition to reviews suggested. The goal is to buy near the end of the month, when sales goals are in greater focus and negotiation tips more toward the buyer's interest.


This is not my thread, but the current leading contenders are Honda CRV and Mazda CX5. Anyone care to weigh in?

The CRV is a reliabity legend but just about as boring as an engine 4 wheels can be. The newest model is a lot sportier though. I love what Mazda is doing and the CX-5 is great. Is this for a new baby? If so look at a bigger SUV. I worked at Babies R Us loading furniture and strollers into cars in college and you'd be shocked how little you can fit into those cars. My sister in law has a CX-9 and can fit two car seats and 4 adults and the two kids' junk.

 

[Danzz]

It's funny that people comment without actually reading the post. While he said new car in the title, he meant a new to him car and clearly said in the post that he is looking for a used BMW in the 15k range.

I've owned two BMWs and I'll likely get a third in another 3 or so years. But if I was looking for a quality used car in that price range, I would not look at BMW. They are great cars when they are under warranty, but they are expensive after that,

There are many good suggestions for quality nice cars. Buy a Beamer when you can afford a new one.

BMWs value drops like a rock once they are out of warranty.

 

[shizzle787]

Don't you need a wholesale license to buy there? They always come up cheapest on auto trader but I thought only dealers could buy there (and most of the cars were lemons).

Nope. I just put cash on the table and told them to get my car.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

Never owned a beemer, but do own a 2009 Mini cooper S. The car is a ton of fun, and very zippy, but tons of engine problems due to poor engineering. We had to come out of pocket with almost 3k to get it fixed at one point. I pleaded with them explaining how their poor engineering shouldnt cost me all that money, but nothing was done. We sucked it up and paid the money and moved on. Later on, they agreed to pay out, so we got our money back. But the engine burns oil and its only at about 125K (I would expect alot more out of BMW made vehicle). Maybe the minis are a different beast, but back in the 2009 time range,these things were made poorly and are not reliable.

I will say, if you can afford to lease a new car and just stay in a new car every three years BMW is the way to go. You dont have to come out of pocket for much other than tires, and you dont have to worry about reliability because it wont come out of your pocket.

 

[Goat]

Should you decide to buy new, learn about Truecar and get a bid using Costco. Truecar allows you to compare prices to those reported in your area and the country. Using Costco I got an offer and took it to my local dealer who matched it for a deal that was $2500 below their previous quote and at the end of the bell curve good for my vehicle.

 

[uconnfan68]

I don't know a heck of a lot about cars. I buy them and then I drive them until they become unreliable and then I get something else. While some people get invested in their cars, I consider them appliances.

I have had an Audi, a BMW 325i, a few Volkswagens, a Nissan Altima, an Oldsmobile Intrigue, a Dodge of some sort when I graduated college, a few Jeeps, etc.

The Jeeps were nightmares. The Oldsmobile Intrigue was so awful that I actually gave it away in a fit of anger. The BMW was fine, but it basically had no backseat at a time when car seats became a fact of life for us, so I had to get rid of it. The Audi and the Volkswagens were all good, but when something went wrong, it was never a simple fix. I current have a Passat and it's now at the point where I'll be getting rid of it soon.

The only truly trouble-free cars I've owned was a Acura TSX Sportwagon and the Nissan Altima. The Altima eventually had 245,000 miles - I had bought the Audi at that point, but I liked the Altima so much that I could not get rid of it. One day, my wife texted me a picture of it on a flatbed and told me she had given it to the Cancer Society. I replaced a frozen rear brake caliper on that car...that was it over 245,000 miles.

None of this helps you. Don't buy a Jeep. Don't buy a German car if you don't want to build an addition on some mechanic's house. You can't buy an Oldsmobile because God smote them and they are no longer a thing.

@zls44, bought a three-year old Japanese car from somewhere in Connecticut that specializes in just-off-lease cars. I forgot where that was, but he showed me the car at the time and I thought he got a great deal for what he got. Perhaps he can chime in.

This. Just something to go from A to B, safely, and never any unusual problems. I expect to replace tires, change oil, and do brakes.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Somewhat OT but germane to sustainment cost of a vehicle I am curious how these high compression direct injection engines will hold up beyond 5-7 years and also how many of these turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines will hold up.

All these posters talking about 200k+ with Toyotas, Lexus and Hondas are doing it on bulletproof DOHC 4 or 6 cyl engines.

Basic DOHC, regular fuel. And they run forever, can be fixed by any mechanic, have a gluttony of supply spare parts and are inexpensive.

I know the newer turbos are way more reliable than older turbos but when they break, you're going to pay, fewer mechanics know how to fix them, fewer spares.

 

[Excalibur]

Those Mazda's are AWD too. I've driven both in substandard conditions when looking for a car, and the Mazda, for me, was superior handling wise. Their traction/drive system is crazy good.

Maybe it plays out differently for other people idk

The Mazda CX 5 and 9 are the only remaining crossovers/SUVs that actually drive like cars. We're six years/130k miles into our CX-9 and we are seriously considering replacing it with another one.

 

[Excalibur]

Somewhat OT but germane to sustainment cost of a vehicle I am curious how these high compression direct injection engines will hold up beyond 5-7 years and also how many of these turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines will hold up.

All these posters talking about 200k+ with Toyotas, Lexus and Hondas are doing it on bulletproof DOHC 4 or 6 cyl engines.

Basic DOHC, regular fuel. And they run forever, can be fixed by any mechanic, have a gluttony of supply spare parts and are inexpensive.

I know the newer turbos are way more reliable than older turbos but when they break, you're going to pay, fewer mechanics know how to fix them, fewer spares.

Most people who can afford to buy new Audis and BMWs can afford to replace them every few years. I generally have stuck with more "mass market" brands for the reliability/cost of maintenance even though I can afford to go higher end -- I just don't want the trouble. I drive an A6 now only because the company leases it for me -- until I get rid of that perk for officers and replace it with a more traditional car allowance.

 

[JMick]

If you need to drive in the snow, snow tires are better than AWD with all-season tires. AWD is a waste unless you're climbing a lot of hills or need to go off road

 

[HCope]

BMWs value drops like a rock once they are out of warranty.

To be fair, that trend describes just about every modern luxury car save for a few odd balls. If you buy a v6 panamera with options that double the msrp well I've got bad news for you as soon as you drive it off the lot. Conversely, I think you'll be doing quite well if you happened to have snagged a limited production car at msrp (Cayman GT4 or BMW 1M come to mind).

If resale value was the only way to go about car shopping we'd all be driving wranglers.

 

[Bliss]

If I ever have to buy another vehicle it will definitely be a Honda product. Like the CRV a lot but also think the Civic SI is really cool for an old car guy like me. Currently driving a supercharged V6 '04 Monte Carlo with 75K on the clock that I bought new. It's absolutely fantastic in every way and I love driving it. Repairs don't cost an arm and a leg and there haven't been many of those. Why would I want to invest (and, yes, I can afford it) in a newer vehicle?

In answer to the thread question - by all means buy a new or gently used Honda product.

 

[intlzncster]

This is not my thread, but the current leading contenders are Honda CRV and Mazda CX5. Anyone care to weigh in?

See my other post RE CX5's. They are awesome. My sister owns a CRV (I like it) and I own a CX-5. The one I got was pretty much best in class and often compared to the BMW x3. I have almost zero complaints about it. The only thing I'd say is that I prefer Honda's in-car digital infotainment system better than Mazda's. Not that Mazda's is bad per se, just that Honda has a better interface, with more capabilities. On the other hand, I don't think the dual digital screens of the Honda are a good feature though. Overkill.

And as Excaliber posts below, the CX-5 drives like a car.

The CRV is a reliabity legend but just about as boring as an engine 4 wheels can be. The newest model is a lot sportier though. I love what Mazda is doing and the CX-5 is great.

Second this. I know Hans is older, so babies aren't an issue.

The Mazda CX 5 and 9 are the only remaining crossovers/SUVs that actually drive like cars. We're six years/130k miles into our CX-9 and we are seriously considering replacing it with another one.

The new CX-9 is absolutely sick. I test drove it for fun, as I knew I wasn't getting one, but man. It's nice. Definitely check it out.

 

[SubbaBub]

Go buy an off lease Volvo S60.

/s

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

This cracks me up. My old beater died pulling into the dealer.so I walked out with a brand new Toyota 4Runner!

I was gonna get a used corrola yada yada yada I have a 50,000 dollar car loan.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Most people who can afford to buy new Audis and BMWs can afford to replace them every few years. I generally have stuck with more "mass market" brands for the reliability/cost of maintenance even though I can afford to go higher end -- I just don't want the trouble. I drive an A6 now only because the company leases it for me -- until I get rid of that perk for officers and replace it with a more traditional car allowance.

Agree on high end cars and repairs. But he's turbos, turbodiesels and direct injection engines are now offered on many mainstream cars less than $30k. And those owners traditionally don't have $1k of cash lying (or is it laying) around for engine repairs.

 

[huskeynut]

A lot of good info.

I have a son who is in the auto retail business. He is car smart and savy, knows his products, and is not afraid to tell the truth. His recommendations for car purchase, new or used, are Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Subaru and Lexus. As many have stated, German vehicles, while sheak and trendy, are expensive to maintain.

I have owned many brands - Chevy (big bad Impala), Olds (Cutlass convertible), Plymouth, Dodge, Ford (Granda, 2 Explorers), Honda Accord wagon and an Accord EX coupe and now Mazda6. My wife has owned an Olds, Mercury, several Ford Tauruses and is on her second Lexus - an ES350.

Both our present cars are predicted to go to 200,000+ miles. If you want luxury go for Lexus on the used market. If those are too high, look at Mazda6. You will be surprised at how far your dollar will go in a Mazda.

 

[intlzncster]

Somewhat OT but germane to sustainment cost of a vehicle I am curious how these high compression direct injection engines will hold up beyond 5-7 years and also how many of these turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines will hold up.

All these posters talking about 200k+ with Toyotas, Lexus and Hondas are doing it on bulletproof DOHC 4 or 6 cyl engines.

Basic DOHC, regular fuel. And they run forever, can be fixed by any mechanic, have a gluttony of supply spare parts and are inexpensive.

I know the newer turbos are way more reliable than older turbos but when they break, you're going to pay, fewer mechanics know how to fix them, fewer spares.

I too wonder about this. I'm coming from the perspective of a guy who owned a 93 Toyota Corolla up until last year, and did all the work on it himself. It still runs fine. Best car I've ever seen.

When I did research on the CX-5 (I keep mentioning it because that's the one I know the most about), I was sold on future durability. These aren't remotely the same engines as the Turbo of old, even semi recently. Whether that plays out in actuality remains to be seen.

Honestly, I'm a little more concerned about the electronics holding up over time than the engine itself. Computers are computers and can degrade from the strain of heavy use; these cars rely so heavily on them. And that ain't be a cheap repair either. Nor is it as simple as heading down to your local mechanic.

 

[Northbound]

I think we're up to 8 cars for two people now or maybe I should say down to as at one point we had 11.

I've got a fondness for E38 (740/750) BMW's. In fact I hunt low mileage ones simply because I think their the best looking and best example of BMW followed closely by the E39 and E28.

The cost to get in one is one thing, but you need to have the means to be able to proactively address maintenance needs. For example my 750 needed one rear shock, and I decided to replace both, change all fluids and new plugs and wires. So list for OEM Sachs shocks were $1700 each due to the SLS - I paid less. The V-12 has two notoriously hard to reach shocks so changing them is comically difficult which equals labor time. I can actually work on it but my arm is too big to reach into those plugs. I think the total bill was $3500 or something, maybe it was $4200 I can't remember. But for me I'd rather pay the occasional larger maintenance cost for something I love.

Go over to Bimmerboard and see what the issues are there's a ton of resources there.

Of course as folks have mentioned find a good indy that you trust. Only thing worse than a dealership is a bad indy.

 

[sledog]

To be fair, that trend describes just about every modern luxury car save for a few odd balls. If you buy a v6 panamera with options that double the msrp well I've got bad news for you as soon as you drive it off the lot. Conversely, I think you'll be doing quite well if you happened to have snagged a limited production car at msrp (Cayman GT4 or BMW 1M come to mind).

If resale value was the only way to go about car shopping we'd all be driving wranglers.

All my BMW re-sales have been at a decent premium to market / book price. I clean the engine every year with soap and water to remove the 'oily cud'. More efficient operation and looks great. I did add Koni racing shocks, shock tower braces, and heavier sway bars. Like I said the cars had been on the track, and NO engine issues - well I did have to replace an alternator at 210k miles once. Maybe the track stories add to the mystique and value? Otherwise, just new tires / brakes / oil / etc / and an occasional new gasket. Just luck - or good proactive care? I've heard stories at the garages about people that really abused the cars - 20k miles with no oil change, indy 500 syndrome = driving out of control, crappy brake pad replacement --> crash, etc, so this subset may be generating the bad press.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The status of car selling in America.

There's a new Honda Accord. Does anyone care?

Midsize sedans’ share of the total U.S. car market has fallen from 16.6% in 2009 to just 12% in 2016. It is a paltry 10.7% so far this year, according to Kelley Blue Book. Once a cash cow that generated healthy profits and filled massive assembly plants, the segment shows no sign of recovering from the tailspin.

That’s a big deal for every mainstream automaker, but a huge challenge for Toyota and Honda, whose biggest plants make midsize sedans. The Georgetown, Ky., plant that builds Camrys for America is the largest Toyota plant in the world. Honda’s sprawling complex west of Columbus, Ohio was the automaker’s first U.S. assembly plant. Honda has sold more than 13 million Accords since the car debuted in 1976.

Not even the most optimistic executive believes the new cars will maintain sales, much less recover to their historical levels. Victory for the Accord and Camry consists of managing the decline, surviving as other competitors drop out. Last man standing wins.

Honda foresaw trouble for sedans years ago. It responded by beefing up its truck lineup, adding the subcompact HR-V SUV and a new version of its Ridgeline pickup to catch the rising tide.

 

[intlzncster]

The status of car selling in America.

There's a new Honda Accord. Does anyone care?

Midsize sedans’ share of the total U.S. car market has fallen from 16.6% in 2009 to just 12% in 2016. It is a paltry 10.7% so far this year, according to Kelley Blue Book. Once a cash cow that generated healthy profits and filled massive assembly plants, the segment shows no sign of recovering from the tailspin.

That’s a big deal for every mainstream automaker, but a huge challenge for Toyota and Honda, whose biggest plants make midsize sedans. The Georgetown, Ky., plant that builds Camrys for America is the largest Toyota plant in the world. Honda’s sprawling complex west of Columbus, Ohio was the automaker’s first U.S. assembly plant. Honda has sold more than 13 million Accords since the car debuted in 1976.

Not even the most optimistic executive believes the new cars will maintain sales, much less recover to their historical levels. Victory for the Accord and Camry consists of managing the decline, surviving as other competitors drop out. Last man standing wins.

Honda foresaw trouble for sedans years ago. It responded by beefing up its truck lineup, adding the subcompact HR-V SUV and a new version of its Ridgeline pickup to catch the rising tide.

No surprise really. People either want big (SUV/Truck) or small (economy/fuel efficient/electric). Midsized is out. The only midsize that's working is the cross over, and that's cause people want SUV capability while still working like a car. There's the occasional muscle or Mercedes too.

 

[huskyinfl]

VW golf sportwagen owner. Love it, quick turbo engine that gets good mpg, more storage than many SUVs and low price. Has that solid German feel and comes with all the tech. Faster and bigger than Subaru for a lot less. 4th vw and I hope this will be the last car I ever drive - next car I buy will hopefully be driverless.

Since driverless is the future I wouldn't over look having one last blast on a fun driving car as hopefully by 2030 it's all automated.

 

[Kitaman]

A 2015 (11k miles) Hyundai Sonata is 15k:

I brought my wife a Genesis (much more expensive), but these cars are well made, with easy, not costly repairs. The price points are nice also.