I'm not a "UConn back to the BE" guy, but . . .

[Mokum]

What about Uconn and Navy to the ACC? Navy gets a pass in BB, like ND has in FB. Makes for an even number of teams in each sport. Uconn is competitive with the bottem tier of the ACC in FB. Anyhow, sombody has to finish last.

 

[8893]

Your implication that knowledge is somehow dependent on college outs you as a lifer in education administration. It reminds me of the H.L. Mencken quote: "It's difficult to get a man to understand what his job depends upon him not understanding."
The days of needing a professor to teach you a subject are behind us. If you don't see that, it's because you don't want to see that. That's not to say that some professors aren't wonderful - many are. It's only to say that most people, with the Internet and modern technology, don't need to live in a dorm, go to a brick and mortar classroom, and listen to a PhD professor to learn about most subjects. It's just that simple. For a huge portion of students, all college has left to offer is a degree - which has real world value because it is perceived to have value.
There are better ways to learn and better ways to certify than college. It's dying in part, and that's a good thing.

But how will kids learn how to drink?

 

[MadDogRevival]

This isn't the place for this discussion, but you are deluded.

You're a lifer. I've been reading your posts for almost a decade. You work in SUNY admin or something, and you have for a long time. "It's difficult to get a man to understand something that his job depends upon him not understanding."
In 1985, when I went to UConn, if you wanted to learn about genetics you could buy a few books, read them, read primary literature, and the like. But whatever you didn't understand - say endonuclease specificity - you had to fight to figure out. You'd be in the Dewey Decimal cards trying to find an answer. Laborious. New information was hard to come by. Research only appeared in journals.
In 2018, you fire up youtube, there's a 3D video describing endonuclease activity. There are numerous written descriptions. Message boards. Any unclear aspect can usually be resolved. For many classes that my kids have with poor teachers (calculus this year), they simply go online and find some youtube videos, which have worked wonderfully. Why even bother going to the poor teacher to get some poor 1 on 1 teaching?

Point is, the future is obvious. Most people can self-teach with the materials out there.
Provide the materials, create tests/exams to get certified, and let people get their certification in a fraction of the time for a fraction of the price.
By the way - newest and best college scam - every book comes with an internet "access code," which is burned by the first purchaser. Effectively kill the used book market.
Dying model.

 

[mauconnfan]

But how will kids learn how to drink?

We need kids who have some experience from good coaching early, so they are ready to get at it early in their career. Can't be a good drinker without HS fundamentals - having your older brother or someone you recruited buy your beer and drop it off by a river behind a tree. Learn to shot gun beers well before the big time hits and know what shots create hangovers and what does not. Need to be able to bounce back next day maybe even early morning, if you don't have these fundamentals prior to college it can be a long journey, heck you may transfer just for that reason.

 

[Paesano]

You're a lifer. I've been reading your posts for almost a decade. You work in SUNY admin or something, and you have for a long time. "It's difficult to get a man to understand something that his job depends upon him not understanding."
In 1985, when I went to UConn, if you wanted to learn about genetics you could buy a few books, read them, read primary literature, and the like. But whatever you didn't understand - say endonuclease specificity - you had to fight to figure out. You'd be in the Dewey Decimal cards trying to find an answer. Laborious. New information was hard to come by. Research only appeared in journals.
In 2018, you fire up youtube, there's a 3D video describing endonuclease activity. There are numerous written descriptions. Message boards. Any unclear aspect can usually be resolved. For many classes that my kids have with poor teachers (calculus this year), they simply go online and find some youtube videos, which have worked wonderfully. Why even bother going to the poor teacher to get some poor 1 on 1 teaching?

Point is, the future is obvious. Most people can self-teach with the materials out there.
Provide the materials, create tests/exams to get certified, and let people get their certification in a fraction of the time for a fraction of the price.
By the way - newest and best college scam - every book comes with an internet "access code," which is burned by the first purchaser. Effectively kill the used book market.
Dying model.

Not for nothing but you are NOT the deluded one.

 

[upstater]

You're a lifer. I've been reading your posts for almost a decade. You work in SUNY admin or something, and you have for a long time. "It's difficult to get a man to understand something that his job depends upon him not understanding."
In 1985, when I went to UConn, if you wanted to learn about genetics you could buy a few books, read them, read primary literature, and the like. But whatever you didn't understand - say endonuclease specificity - you had to fight to figure out. You'd be in the Dewey Decimal cards trying to find an answer. Laborious. New information was hard to come by. Research only appeared in journals.
In 2018, you fire up youtube, there's a 3D video describing endonuclease activity. There are numerous written descriptions. Message boards. Any unclear aspect can usually be resolved. For many classes that my kids have with poor teachers (calculus this year), they simply go online and find some youtube videos, which have worked wonderfully. Why even bother going to the poor teacher to get some poor 1 on 1 teaching?

Point is, the future is obvious. Most people can self-teach with the materials out there.
Provide the materials, create tests/exams to get certified, and let people get their certification in a fraction of the time for a fraction of the price.
By the way - newest and best college scam - every book comes with an internet "access code," which is burned by the first purchaser. Effectively kill the used book market.
Dying model.

I'm not going to get into it here. But you act like people don't think about this, work on it, research it. They do.

 

[Windsorlocks]

That's the future? I was just speaking with people in our computing program last weekend. They seem to think it is almost OVAH for programming.

If college becomes obsolete, what happens to knowledge?

I'm told, much to my regret, that we are transitioning to the Post Truth era. There will be no consensus reality upon which to build knowledge. Or something like that. And membership in the Flat Earth Society is booming:

We Went to a Conference for Flat-Earthers to Find Out Why This Conspiracy Theory Won't Die

 

[MadDogRevival]

But you act like people don't think about this, work on it, research it.

I act like 20 million Americans are enrolled in college in the U.S. right now, which is 5 million more than just 20 years ago. I act like college is not so much about education but about big business. I act like colleges function like corporations, hawking low value degrees for huge tuition and board. I act like the institutionalization of college as a right of passage for middle America has not made us noticeably smarter or more educated, but rather has indentured us and deferred adulthood for a significant portion of our population. Finally, I act like the value of a college degree for many of the kids enrolled is the perception that a BS or BA is correlated with intelligence and work ethic, rather than what it should be - which is a representation of useful knowledge gained.

 

[8893]

Some good points to be made on both sides of the argument, and there is no question that college costs have skyrocketed for mostly bad reasons that have little to nothing to do with the value being provided; or that a lot can often be learned more effectively on-line.

But what I think that overlooks is the classroom dynamic and the benefits of discussion between and among teachers and students. I know it's a dying cause in this era of STEM focus, but I remain a big fan of a quality liberal arts education--for the right kids. Done right, it should be about much more than knowledge; it should be about learning how to think, how to adapt, and how to solve problems. I'm seeing it in my oldest now, who just finished her first semester at college. She's got a ways to go, obviously, but I like what I see of the early returns.

 

[upstater]

I act like 20 million Americans are enrolled in college in the U.S. right now, which is 5 million more than just 20 years ago. I act like college is not so much about education but about big business. I act like colleges function like corporations, hawking low value degrees for huge tuition and board. I act like the institutionalization of college as a right of passage for middle America has not made us noticeably smarter or more educated, but rather has indentured us and deferred adulthood for a significant portion of our population. Finally, I act like the value of a college degree for many of the kids enrolled is the perception that a BS or BA is correlated with intelligence and work ethic, rather than what it should be - which is a representation of useful knowledge gained.

The vast majority of the working class kids at my state institution are earnest. Are there flakes? There have always been flakes. Not the majority.

 

[Paesano]

I'm told, much to my regret, that we are transitioning to the Post Truth era. There will be no consensus reality upon which to build knowledge. Or something like that. And membership in the Flat Earth Society is booming:

We Went to a Conference for Flat-Earthers to Find Out Why This Conspiracy Theory Won't Die

No one wants to discuss the white elephant in the room. The average IQ of Americans is dropping because smart people are having few to no kids and dumb people are popping them out like rabbits. The solutions are unpleasant and ethically and morally perilous.

On the college thing specifically, this is a result of the greed and instant gratification that is rampant in our society. Everyone wants the expensive car, big house, expensive vacations, nice clothes. Everyone was told that a college degree is how you get them. No one wants to be a car mechanic that lives in a normal house and lives a normal life. And few kids can see the path to a pretty comfortable life as a contractor or plumber or electrician. If you are smart and work hard, you can do very well in a skilled trade. But our society looks down on that now. We all pay the price because there are now very few competent people in skilled trades.

 

[huskyrob1]

The vast majority of the working class kids at my state institution are earnest. Are there flakes? There have always been flakes. Not the majority.

How many of them are there on their own dime or their family's own dime? Just curious.

 

[upstater]

How many of them are there on their own dime or their family's own dime? Just curious.

A lot more than ever before. I have kids coming in wearing work overalls, hospital blues, etc.

 

[huskyrob1]

No one wants to discuss the white elephant in the room. The average IQ of Americans is dropping because smart people are having few to no kids and dumb people are popping them out like rabbits. The solutions are unpleasant and ethically and morally perilous.

On the college thing specifically, this is a result of the greed and instant gratification that is rampant in our society. Everyone wants the expensive car, big house, expensive vacations, nice clothes. Everyone was told that a college degree is how you get them. No one wants to be a car mechanic that lives in a normal house and lives a normal life. And few kids can see the path to a pretty comfortable life as a contractor or plumber or electrician. If you are smart and work hard, you can do very well in a skilled trade. But our society looks down on that now. We all pay the price because there are now very few competent people in skilled trades.

My uncle on my mom's side flipped burgers, grilled hot dogs, and dropped bag after bag of French fries into hot oil for 45 years at a popular stand he owned. His wife never worked a day in her life, but they both raised two kids and the burger flipping put them through college, and not just any old college, one went to James Madison and the other went to UConn.

 

[MadDogRevival]

A lot more than ever before. I have kids coming in wearing work overalls, hospital blues, etc.

BS. The only thing that has allowed college education to get to where it is is the Fed grants, Fed subsidies, and Fed rule that student loan debt is not dischargeable in bankruptcy. If your average 18 year old (or his/her parents) had to plunk down 30k a year to pursue a degree in (----- studies, sociology, psychology, journalism, art, history, and any one of dozens of other non-job producing majors), they would just make the rational decision to not go to college for oversold degrees.
If your average bank wasn't guaranteed a judgment against non-payors, with their loans subject to chapter 7 discharge, they wouldn't go near financing those pursuits.

 

[upstater]

BS. The only thing that has allowed college education to get to where it is is the Fed grants, Fed subsidies, and Fed rule that student loan debt is not dischargeable in bankruptcy. If your average 18 year old (or his/her parents) had to plunk down 30k a year to pursue a degree in (----- studies, sociology, psychology, journalism, art, history, and any one of dozens of other non-job producing majors), they would just make the rational decision to not go to college for oversold degrees.
If your average bank wasn't guaranteed a judgment against non-payors, with their loans subject to chapter 7 discharge, they wouldn't go near financing those pursuits.

Go on in delusion. It's clear you don't know at all what you're talking about.

 

[UconnFanDC]

I honestly don't care about any of this. I just want us to start winning again! Whatever it takes, that's all! I said before, Memphis and Gonzaga survived in non P5 conferences for years. So im not 100 that this matters as much as we think. #BostonCollege has not been breathing for years. But teams like TCU, Texas Tech and even Northwestern are doing better since a coaching change. Enough said!

 

[upstater]

I honestly don't care about any of this. I just want us to start winning again! Whatever it takes, that's all! I said before, Memphis and Gonzaga survived in non P5 conferences for years. So im not 100 that this matters as much as we think. #BostonCollege has not been breathing for years. But teams like TCU, Texas Tech and even Northwestern are doing better since a coaching change. Enough said!

Gonzaga has. Memphis? Not so much.

 

[uconnfan68]

Guys, this is one moron’s opinion. We can go back to the Big East if we want to.

Don’t think it’s an option without an invitation.

 

[uconnfan68]

Best post you ever made.
I'll add to your reasons the following two:
1. The economy is dog crap and getting worse and, while the employment numbers appear sanguine, the truth is that most jobs out there pay crap and people are having a harder time making ends meet than at any time since I've been aware (about 40 years).
2. The right-of-passage of middle American kids going to college is dying an overdue death. A proportion of kids who go to college don't need college and won't use most of what they learn in college when they get a job. The concept of going to college to get a 4 year liberal arts degree is, appropriately, going the way of the buggy whip. A 24 year old kid I know well went to college for 1 year and didn't do much other than party and get bad grades. After a few years of working 8$ an hour jobs, he took a 3 month crash course in javascript/programming. 6 days a week, 11 hours a day, for 3 months. Got his certification. Withing 3 months, got a job making 30$ an hour. Nothing but upside potential, set for life programming.
That's the future. With the internet and technology, the concept that you have to travel to a brick and mortar institution and have a particular individual teach you BS and BA type stuff is outdated.
The value of a BA/BS for many students at this point is that it shows you toughed out a 4 year college degree and the HS grad applying did not. Ironically, it also means you probably have a lot of debt that you need to repay, so you'll value the job more. When these stupidly expensive, middle of the road schools start contracting and closing - and they should - it will be a good thing. College is big business, and their product is becoming, in part, obsolete. Sign of the times.

He is not set for life programming as a 24yo. Might be ok for a while, but everything changes all the time. AI gains could obsolete humans ever programming commercially.

 

[uconnfan68]

That's the future? I was just speaking with people in our computing program last weekend. They seem to think it is almost OVAH for programming.

If college becomes obsolete, what happens to knowledge?

Took a sociology class around 1982(?), and one of the topics was whether programming would be viable in the next decade. Its like fusion, just around the corner, but AI could be that gamechanger.

 

[uconnfan68]

They would never have changed their mind anyway. It was always going to be a money thing.

If Connecticut people are going to pay for the ACC channel, they are dumb.

It will be bundled with everything else. They’re all in it together to steal our money.

 

[upstater]

It will be bundled with everything else. They’re all in it together to steal our money.

I would cancel cable on principle.

Organize it, publish the ban on social media, local cable will get the message.

 

[upstater]

Took a sociology class around 1982(?), and one of the topics was whether programming would be viable in the next decade. Its like fusion, just around the corner, but AI could be that gamechanger.

I don't know anything about it. I was just listening.

 

[whaler11]

I would cancel cable on principle.

Organize it, publish the ban on social media, local cable will get the message.

It’s almost as easy as starting your own TV network with no investors, content or expertise.