I Wouldn't Be Surprised To Get An Acc Invite In The Next Week

[upstater]

Try selling academia that you are moving to a lower ranked academic conference for $5 million a year more in football media money.

That isn't the way these things work and its why an ACC team to the SEC is always suspect. Try selling Old Miss and Missie State as your new Research Triangle

If you tried selling that to them, they would yawn. As the head of the CIC said, "I'd be lying if I said Nebraska's academics came up when they were admitted to the B10."

You're clearly overstating things. The vast vast majority of academics wouldn't care, and most would think: good!

 

[orangehomer]

The ACC really blew it with expansion. They added two declining universities in dead factory towns where the population is not walking away, it is sprinting away. They bring a shrinking Pittsburgh market and...I have no idea what Syracuse brings. Both schools will have trouble recruiting New York in hoops, which will cause both to decline in that sport.

interestingly the population in the greater syracuse area has remained steady for 30+ years, and the unemployment rate is below 8%. but feel free to keep on making inaccurate generalizations if you think it helps you prove a point.

also as a side note, we don't recruit nyc for hoops, we recruit nationally. i can't think of the last nyc kid we took, and if you think a move to the acc is going to hurt nyc recruiting, than you are just being naive.

 

[BarkingDog]

interestingly the population in the greater syracuse area has remained steady for 30+ years, and the unemployment rate is below 8%. but feel free to keep on making inaccurate generalizations if you think it helps you prove a point.

also as a side note, we don't recruit nyc for hoops, we recruit nationally. i can't think of the last nyc kid we took, and if you think a move to the acc is going to hurt nyc recruiting, than you are just being naive.

Not for nothing, but according to the Census, the population of Syracuse peaked in 1950 at around 220,000 and has fallen in every census since then to its present 145,000. Hardly steady.

 

[HuskyNan]

Not for nothing, but according to the Census, the population of Syracuse peaked in 1950 at around 220,000 and has fallen in every census since then to its present 145,000. Hardly steady.

Right. From the march 24, 2011 Syracuse Post Standard:

Syracuse, NY -- In the last 10 years, the city of Syracuse's population has remained nearly flat -- decreasing by 2,176 -- while Onondaga County has grown by 8,690 residents, according to 2010 U.S. Census results released today.

The city of Syracuse has a population of 145,170, according to the count. That's a drop of 1.5 percent from the 2000 Census, which recorded 147,346 people.

That's a much slower decline than the previous decade, when Syracuse lost 16,554 residents from 1990 to 2000.

 

[BarkingDog]

But to be fair, I'm sure a lot of that exodus is from the city to the suburbs where the tv sets still tune in to Syracuse football games on a saturday afternoon.

 

[orangehomer]

Right. From the march 24, 2011 Syracuse Post Standard:

Syracuse, NY -- In the last 10 years, the city of Syracuse's population has remained nearly flat -- decreasing by 2,176 -- while Onondaga County has grown by 8,690 residents, according to 2010 U.S. Census results released today.

The city of Syracuse has a population of 145,170, according to the count. That's a drop of 1.5 percent from the 2000 Census, which recorded 147,346 people.

That's a much slower decline than the previous decade, when Syracuse lost 16,554 residents from 1990 to 2000.

the "city" has dropped, but the county has gained, as some people have moved to the 'burbs. i'm not going to research it, but the data i have seen indicates that the "greater syracuse area" has remained relatively steady since the '70s. waylon acts like there is a mass exodus and empty houses on every street like detroit or buffalo, but it is just not the case.

 

[RS9999X]

interestingly the population in the greater syracuse area has remained steady for 30+ years, and the unemployment rate is below 8%. but feel free to keep on making inaccurate generalizations if you think it helps you prove a point.

also as a side note, we don't recruit nyc for hoops, we recruit nationally. i can't think of the last nyc kid we took, and if you think a move to the acc is going to hurt nyc recruiting, than you are just being naive.

I lived in Syracuse in the 70s. It's kind of sad when I visit and go down Route 11 Northside or to the malls or Erie Boulevard. Marshall Street, etc. It's the same. only run down.

The metro area is +2.5% in the last 30 years. Like Hartford the burbs are an important part of the city.

Don't get me wrong: the Butt Ugly building just got torn down. Hartford calling Syracuse a loser city is like Larry kicking Curly because Moe told him to.

CT definitely has more industry (and the Carrier Headquarters --taunt). There are many similarities given the presence of UTC and the Carrier Dome founding and the Rent. In that sense they are almost sister cities. Both have that college sports ethos since pro sports have long left for greener pastures

 

[Uptop]

Building on the population theme.......

The link below gives us a snapshot in part of why the "back stabbers" (cuse and pitt) wants to migrate to the acc. They actually feel being aligned with this will provide a competitive advantage athletically. But like BC painfully discovered it will be a "no sale" outcome for them as well. No critical thinking.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/16/blacks-south-return_n_1014381.html

 

[Fishy]

BL is right, you're wrong.

The ACC is a horrid football conference. It's richer, more stable, more appealing and more marketable...but the product on the field stinks.

 

[upstater]

the "city" has dropped, but the county has gained, as some people have moved to the 'burbs. i'm not going to research it, but the data i have seen indicates that the "greater syracuse area" has remained relatively steady since the '70s. waylon acts like there is a mass exodus and empty houses on every street like detroit or buffalo, but it is just not the case.

Buffalo's in better shape than Syracuse.

 

[huskyrob1]

BL is right, you're wrong.

The ACC is a horrid football conference. It's richer, more stable, more appealing and more marketable...but the product on the field stinks.

I just flatly disagree. All the ACC teams I mentioned have a D1 football culture that collectively is lightyears ahead of anything the "New" Big East now has.

 

[jpm25]

interestingly the population in the greater syracuse area has remained steady for 30+ years, and the unemployment rate is below 8%. but feel free to keep on making inaccurate generalizations if you think it helps you prove a point.

also as a side note, we don't recruit nyc for hoops, we recruit nationally. i can't think of the last nyc kid we took, and if you think a move to the acc is going to hurt nyc recruiting, than you are just being naive.

If you think you recruit nationally and do not recruit NYC, you should look at your roster

 

[Vuce]

I just flatly disagree. All the ACC teams I mentioned have a D1 football culture that collectively is lightyears ahead of anything the "New" Big East now has.

I don't think Fishy said anything about what the Big East football conference is or isn't. He said that the ACC is a horrid football conference and he is right. Would Uconn join in a heartbeat? Yes, but it still would not be a great football conference.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't think Fishy said anything about what the Big East football conference is or isn't. He said that the ACC is a horrid football conference and he is right. Would Uconn join in a heartbeat? Yes, but it still would not be a great football conference.

But as presently constituted (with Pitt and Syracuse), it's the best basketball conference in the country. Add UConn and it's no contest. It's also and excellent soccer conference and baseball conference. Do any of you really want to see what would happen to UConn football in the SEC? It would be a miracle if we ever went .500 in conference. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Vuce]

Are you guys making stuff up or reading stuff that isn't there? The comment was about ACC football product on the field. Nothing more than that. Didn't say anything about basketball, soccer, oozeball or tiddlywinks. And who is advocating the SEC for football?

 

[BigEastCT]

.

The timeline has been set now...the BE will expand in a week. Part of me feels like those that intended to kill the BE are going to go for the kill shot while they still can. If they allow BE expansion to go forward, I don't think they will be able to kill off the BE in the future. I would not be surprised to see the ACC invite UConn and Rutgers and the B12 invite Louisville and Cincinnati. While I have not seen any increased activity or reports of this...I just have a feeling that this is spinning out of control for the interested parties and they are going to have to take the kill shot before it is too late![/quote]

cincy & ville to big 12 seems like a better fit

 

[RS9999X]

A&M did. If Missouri leaves, they'll go to a lower ranked coference academically, although not by much. Missouri isn't exactly premium academically. About the same as KU. Both AAU. I don't think the ACC is behind the Pac 10 at all, certainly not by much. But I agree with the general premise that prestige is a major motivator in these moves.

Missouri and A&M didn't gravitate down. From 2010 figures

Academic Ranking of the BCS Conferences (and Schools)

Inside Higher Ed, Academic Performance and the BCS, by John V. Lombardi (President, LSU), Elizabeth D. Capaldi (Provost, Arizona State) & Craig W. Abbey (Senior Vice President, SUNY-Buffalo):

For over 10 years, The Center for Measuring University Performance, now located at Arizona State University, has produced an annual report on "The Top American Research Universities" that uses objective data on nine measures to put universities into categories according to their performance.

By combining these indexes of academic performance for the members of the conferences, we can produce a reliable indicator of the combined academic distinction of the institutions in each of the six BCS conferences.

1. Big-10 (55)
2. Pac-12 (48)
3. ACC (28.5)
4. SEC (14)
5. Big-12 (12)
6. Big East (8.5)

 

[RS9999X]

If you tried selling that to them, they would yawn. As the head of the CIC said, "I'd be lying if I said Nebraska's academics came up when they were admitted to the B10." You're clearly overstating things. The vast vast majority of academics wouldn't care, and most would think: good!

You might be missing the point. The institutions leaving conferences gravitate upwards in academics. They don't gravitate down. The President's don't take on the burden of saying to the academic community "Forget those research alliances" to the academics. "We want in with dumbo." Instead there is almost always considerations of regional research partnerships and how that can be spun as a positive for SU or Pitt to leave.

Do the new teams dilute their new conferences? That's open to discussion.

Here's Pitt's spin:

Mr. Nordenberg said the academic reputation of the ACC played a role in the decision. The current 12 member schools rank an average of 49th in U.S. News and World Report's 2012 list of the best national universities. Mr. Nordenberg also pointed to existing academic research relationships between Pitt and ACC members Wake Forest, Duke, Virginia Tech and Virginia.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11262/1175884-142.stm

 

[HuskyHawk]

Are you guys making stuff up or reading stuff that isn't there? The comment was about ACC football product on the field. Nothing more than that. Didn't say anything about basketball, soccer, oozeball or tiddlywinks. And who is advocating the SEC for football?

I understand the comment. But it's meaningless. Who cares? My point in mentioning the SEC is that we sure as hell should not be trying to join the conference that does have the best football product on the field. That would be a horrible fit for UConn. Meanwhile, the ACC is good at the things UConn is good at.

 

[businesslawyer]

I just flatly disagree. All the ACC teams I mentioned have a D1 football culture that collectively is lightyears ahead of anything the "New" Big East now has.

No one is arguing football culture. But citing Miami and Syracuse and Pitt proves our point. They have football histories. But their current product is vastly overrated by the football community compared to their actual performance. Does having Miami make the ACC a stronger football conference? Yes as to history and prestige. Yes as to academics (though not the team's academics). But on the field? No, it doesn't.

 

[uconNYC]

.

The timeline has been set now...the BE will expand in a week. Part of me feels like those that intended to kill the BE are going to go for the kill shot while they still can. If they allow BE expansion to go forward, I don't think they will be able to kill off the BE in the future. I would not be surprised to see the ACC invite UConn and Rutgers and the B12 invite Louisville and Cincinnati. While I have not seen any increased activity or reports of this...I just have a feeling that this is spinning out of control for the interested parties and they are going to have to take the kill shot before it is too late!

If either UL or UConn is taken, the BE would be finished. Catholic schools would break away.

 

[speedoo]

No one is arguing football culture. But citing Miami and Syracuse and Pitt proves our point. They have football histories. But their current product is vastly overrated by the football community compared to their actual performance. Does having Miami make the ACC a stronger football conference? Yes as to history and prestige. Yes as to academics (though not the team's academics). But on the field? No, it doesn't.

Speaking of over rated, isn't Notre Dame the most over rated, based on current performance, of all? I wonder when that fact (if I can call it a fact) becomes part of the realignment situation.

 

[RS9999X]

Speaking of over rated, isn't Notre Dame the most over rated, based on current performance, of all? I wonder when that fact (if I can call it a fact) becomes part of the realignment situation.

Notre Dame is the Chewbacca Kardashian of Sports TV and has her own TV show.

 

[upstater]

You might be missing the point. The institutions leaving conferences gravitate upwards in academics. They don't gravitate down. The President's don't take on the burden of saying to the academic community "Forget those research alliances" to the academics. "We want in with dumbo." Instead there is almost always considerations of regional research partnerships and how that can be spun as a positive for SU or Pitt to leave.

Do the new teams dilute their new conferences? That's open to discussion.

Here's Pitt's spin:

Mr. Nordenberg said the academic reputation of the ACC played a role in the decision. The current 12 member schools rank an average of 49th in U.S. News and World Report's 2012 list of the best national universities. Mr. Nordenberg also pointed to existing academic research relationships between Pitt and ACC members Wake Forest, Duke, Virginia Tech and Virginia.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11262/1175884-142.stm

What research alliances?

Mr. Nordenburg? You trust him? Seriously? They say these things and behind the scenes it amounts to a cup of coffee.

While the Big10 was talking about academics and adding Nebraska, their Presidents were engaged in kicking them out of the euro.

 

[mattp]

Try selling academia that you are moving to a lower ranked academic conference for $5 million a year more in football media money.

That isn't the way these things work and its why an ACC team to the SEC is always suspect. Try selling Old Miss and Missie State as your new Research Triangle

academic conference? this is one thing i've never understood. these are athletic conferences, not academic. i don't have any idea what kind of academic collusion/cooperation there is between schools, but i doubt it has much to do with athletic conferences. do you really think Vanderbilt is more likely to do joint research with Mississippi State than Duke just because of their athletic conference? someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i can't imagine that being the case.

can anyone point to any instance where academic cooperation changed as a result of a change in athletic conference? there have been enough movements over the last several years that there should be some examples if this is the case. i know people say the B1G schools work together, but how extensive is it really? we're not talking about the Ivy and Patriot leagues here, we're talking about the ACC and SEC. both have a pretty varied level of academic prowess mixed within their leagues and i don't see how the bottom feeders hurt the best schools, or how the best schools help the bottom feeders

 

[RS9999X]

If either UL or UConn is taken, the BE would be finished. Catholic schools would break away.

Haven't they done this already?

They've decided UConn and Lousville add value. Rutgers and Cincy have great Catholic markets. Those teams can stay if they split off

USF/USF or SMU/Houston are meh but mean two warm weather trips every winter, winnable road games against top 125 RPI , great BBQ, and Southern babes.

 

[RS9999X]

academic conference? this is one thing i've never understood. these are athletic conferences, not academic.

What neigborhood do you live in? Or does it matter? Does it matter if you go to an Ivy League (Conference) School?

Does it matter if Herbst is trying to partner with Yale as a regional on some projects? Does she aspire to look down stream for academic partners? What social circles do you travel in? Does it matter?

I think you miss the conceit completely. The BiG and PAC-12 and ACC and now the SEC can point to themselves as the best conferences there are for Div I Academics and Athletics. Ivy League? Closer to the Ivy than the Big Sprawl.

http://www.colorado.edu/insidecu/editions/2010/6-15/chancellor.html

The Pac-10 Is About World-Class Academics

Chancellor Philip P. DiStefano

It is said that you are known by the company you keep. The University of Colorado at Boulder will be keeping very good company in the Pacific-10 Conference as its newest and 11th member.

We are the only member of the prestigious Association of American Universities in the Rocky Mountain West. The Pac-10 has seven fellow AAU members. We are honored to become the eighth.

CU-Boulder derived $340 million in groundbreaking federally sponsored research in 2009, comparable to Pac-10 universities such as the University of California at Berkeley and the University of Arizona.

Our four Nobel Laureates share a legacy of discovery with other Nobel Prize winners at institutions such as Stanford. CU is talked about in the same breath as Cal, UCLA, Arizona, and Washington as the “public Ivies,” of the West in national publications.

We have a long history of research collaborations with our counterparts in the Pac 10........

 

[RS9999X]

we're not talking about the Ivy and Patriot leagues here, we're talking about the ACC and SEC. both have a pretty varied level of academic prowess mixed within their leagues and i don't see how the bottom feeders hurt the best schools, or how the best schools help the bottom feeders

The ACC as part of the New South is moving in all the right directions in Academics.

The SEC is the looking like the best of the rest.

It's pretty much self-fulfilling at this point. Nearly all the AAU teams or top 100 Research U with BCS sports are packed into 3 conferences

 

[RS9999X]

They say these things and behind the scenes it amounts to a cup of coffee.
.

Well, then there's that. The spin. The press angle. The resume stuffers. The academic accomplishments a President or Chancellor takes credit for thanks to ESPN

 

[upstater]

Well, then there's that. The spin. The press angle. The resume stuffers. The academic accomplishments a President or Chancellor takes credit for thanks to ESPN

They keep trying to remind people this is all about academics. May be true for some schools, but harder and harder to make the case these days.