I Wouldn't Be Surprised To Get An Acc Invite In The Next Week

[BigEastCT]

.

The timeline has been set now...the BE will expand in a week. Part of me feels like those that intended to kill the BE are going to go for the kill shot while they still can. If they allow BE expansion to go forward, I don't think they will be able to kill off the BE in the future. I would not be surprised to see the ACC invite UConn and Rutgers and the B12 invite Louisville and Cincinnati. While I have not seen any increased activity or reports of this...I just have a feeling that this is spinning out of control for the interested parties and they are going to have to take the kill shot before it is too late![/quote]

cincy & ville to big 12 seems like a better fit

 

[RS9999X]

A&M did. If Missouri leaves, they'll go to a lower ranked coference academically, although not by much. Missouri isn't exactly premium academically. About the same as KU. Both AAU. I don't think the ACC is behind the Pac 10 at all, certainly not by much. But I agree with the general premise that prestige is a major motivator in these moves.

Missouri and A&M didn't gravitate down. From 2010 figures

Academic Ranking of the BCS Conferences (and Schools)

Inside Higher Ed, Academic Performance and the BCS, by John V. Lombardi (President, LSU), Elizabeth D. Capaldi (Provost, Arizona State) & Craig W. Abbey (Senior Vice President, SUNY-Buffalo):

For over 10 years, The Center for Measuring University Performance, now located at Arizona State University, has produced an annual report on "The Top American Research Universities" that uses objective data on nine measures to put universities into categories according to their performance.

By combining these indexes of academic performance for the members of the conferences, we can produce a reliable indicator of the combined academic distinction of the institutions in each of the six BCS conferences.

1. Big-10 (55)
2. Pac-12 (48)
3. ACC (28.5)
4. SEC (14)
5. Big-12 (12)
6. Big East (8.5)

 

[RS9999X]

If you tried selling that to them, they would yawn. As the head of the CIC said, "I'd be lying if I said Nebraska's academics came up when they were admitted to the B10." You're clearly overstating things. The vast vast majority of academics wouldn't care, and most would think: good!

You might be missing the point. The institutions leaving conferences gravitate upwards in academics. They don't gravitate down. The President's don't take on the burden of saying to the academic community "Forget those research alliances" to the academics. "We want in with dumbo." Instead there is almost always considerations of regional research partnerships and how that can be spun as a positive for SU or Pitt to leave.

Do the new teams dilute their new conferences? That's open to discussion.

Here's Pitt's spin:

Mr. Nordenberg said the academic reputation of the ACC played a role in the decision. The current 12 member schools rank an average of 49th in U.S. News and World Report's 2012 list of the best national universities. Mr. Nordenberg also pointed to existing academic research relationships between Pitt and ACC members Wake Forest, Duke, Virginia Tech and Virginia.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11262/1175884-142.stm

 

[HuskyHawk]

Are you guys making stuff up or reading stuff that isn't there? The comment was about ACC football product on the field. Nothing more than that. Didn't say anything about basketball, soccer, oozeball or tiddlywinks. And who is advocating the SEC for football?

I understand the comment. But it's meaningless. Who cares? My point in mentioning the SEC is that we sure as hell should not be trying to join the conference that does have the best football product on the field. That would be a horrible fit for UConn. Meanwhile, the ACC is good at the things UConn is good at.

 

[businesslawyer]

I just flatly disagree. All the ACC teams I mentioned have a D1 football culture that collectively is lightyears ahead of anything the "New" Big East now has.

No one is arguing football culture. But citing Miami and Syracuse and Pitt proves our point. They have football histories. But their current product is vastly overrated by the football community compared to their actual performance. Does having Miami make the ACC a stronger football conference? Yes as to history and prestige. Yes as to academics (though not the team's academics). But on the field? No, it doesn't.

 

[uconNYC]

.

The timeline has been set now...the BE will expand in a week. Part of me feels like those that intended to kill the BE are going to go for the kill shot while they still can. If they allow BE expansion to go forward, I don't think they will be able to kill off the BE in the future. I would not be surprised to see the ACC invite UConn and Rutgers and the B12 invite Louisville and Cincinnati. While I have not seen any increased activity or reports of this...I just have a feeling that this is spinning out of control for the interested parties and they are going to have to take the kill shot before it is too late!

If either UL or UConn is taken, the BE would be finished. Catholic schools would break away.

 

[speedoo]

No one is arguing football culture. But citing Miami and Syracuse and Pitt proves our point. They have football histories. But their current product is vastly overrated by the football community compared to their actual performance. Does having Miami make the ACC a stronger football conference? Yes as to history and prestige. Yes as to academics (though not the team's academics). But on the field? No, it doesn't.

Speaking of over rated, isn't Notre Dame the most over rated, based on current performance, of all? I wonder when that fact (if I can call it a fact) becomes part of the realignment situation.

 

[RS9999X]

Speaking of over rated, isn't Notre Dame the most over rated, based on current performance, of all? I wonder when that fact (if I can call it a fact) becomes part of the realignment situation.

Notre Dame is the Chewbacca Kardashian of Sports TV and has her own TV show.

 

[upstater]

You might be missing the point. The institutions leaving conferences gravitate upwards in academics. They don't gravitate down. The President's don't take on the burden of saying to the academic community "Forget those research alliances" to the academics. "We want in with dumbo." Instead there is almost always considerations of regional research partnerships and how that can be spun as a positive for SU or Pitt to leave.

Do the new teams dilute their new conferences? That's open to discussion.

Here's Pitt's spin:

Mr. Nordenberg said the academic reputation of the ACC played a role in the decision. The current 12 member schools rank an average of 49th in U.S. News and World Report's 2012 list of the best national universities. Mr. Nordenberg also pointed to existing academic research relationships between Pitt and ACC members Wake Forest, Duke, Virginia Tech and Virginia.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11262/1175884-142.stm

What research alliances?

Mr. Nordenburg? You trust him? Seriously? They say these things and behind the scenes it amounts to a cup of coffee.

While the Big10 was talking about academics and adding Nebraska, their Presidents were engaged in kicking them out of the euro.

 

[mattp]

Try selling academia that you are moving to a lower ranked academic conference for $5 million a year more in football media money.

That isn't the way these things work and its why an ACC team to the SEC is always suspect. Try selling Old Miss and Missie State as your new Research Triangle

academic conference? this is one thing i've never understood. these are athletic conferences, not academic. i don't have any idea what kind of academic collusion/cooperation there is between schools, but i doubt it has much to do with athletic conferences. do you really think Vanderbilt is more likely to do joint research with Mississippi State than Duke just because of their athletic conference? someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i can't imagine that being the case.

can anyone point to any instance where academic cooperation changed as a result of a change in athletic conference? there have been enough movements over the last several years that there should be some examples if this is the case. i know people say the B1G schools work together, but how extensive is it really? we're not talking about the Ivy and Patriot leagues here, we're talking about the ACC and SEC. both have a pretty varied level of academic prowess mixed within their leagues and i don't see how the bottom feeders hurt the best schools, or how the best schools help the bottom feeders

 

[RS9999X]

If either UL or UConn is taken, the BE would be finished. Catholic schools would break away.

Haven't they done this already?

They've decided UConn and Lousville add value. Rutgers and Cincy have great Catholic markets. Those teams can stay if they split off

USF/USF or SMU/Houston are meh but mean two warm weather trips every winter, winnable road games against top 125 RPI , great BBQ, and Southern babes.

 

[RS9999X]

academic conference? this is one thing i've never understood. these are athletic conferences, not academic.

What neigborhood do you live in? Or does it matter? Does it matter if you go to an Ivy League (Conference) School?

Does it matter if Herbst is trying to partner with Yale as a regional on some projects? Does she aspire to look down stream for academic partners? What social circles do you travel in? Does it matter?

I think you miss the conceit completely. The BiG and PAC-12 and ACC and now the SEC can point to themselves as the best conferences there are for Div I Academics and Athletics. Ivy League? Closer to the Ivy than the Big Sprawl.

http://www.colorado.edu/insidecu/editions/2010/6-15/chancellor.html

The Pac-10 Is About World-Class Academics

Chancellor Philip P. DiStefano

It is said that you are known by the company you keep. The University of Colorado at Boulder will be keeping very good company in the Pacific-10 Conference as its newest and 11th member.

We are the only member of the prestigious Association of American Universities in the Rocky Mountain West. The Pac-10 has seven fellow AAU members. We are honored to become the eighth.

CU-Boulder derived $340 million in groundbreaking federally sponsored research in 2009, comparable to Pac-10 universities such as the University of California at Berkeley and the University of Arizona.

Our four Nobel Laureates share a legacy of discovery with other Nobel Prize winners at institutions such as Stanford. CU is talked about in the same breath as Cal, UCLA, Arizona, and Washington as the “public Ivies,” of the West in national publications.

We have a long history of research collaborations with our counterparts in the Pac 10........

 

[RS9999X]

we're not talking about the Ivy and Patriot leagues here, we're talking about the ACC and SEC. both have a pretty varied level of academic prowess mixed within their leagues and i don't see how the bottom feeders hurt the best schools, or how the best schools help the bottom feeders

The ACC as part of the New South is moving in all the right directions in Academics.

The SEC is the looking like the best of the rest.

It's pretty much self-fulfilling at this point. Nearly all the AAU teams or top 100 Research U with BCS sports are packed into 3 conferences

 

[RS9999X]

They say these things and behind the scenes it amounts to a cup of coffee.
.

Well, then there's that. The spin. The press angle. The resume stuffers. The academic accomplishments a President or Chancellor takes credit for thanks to ESPN

 

[upstater]

Well, then there's that. The spin. The press angle. The resume stuffers. The academic accomplishments a President or Chancellor takes credit for thanks to ESPN

They keep trying to remind people this is all about academics. May be true for some schools, but harder and harder to make the case these days.

 

[upstater]

The ACC as part of the New South is moving in all the right directions in Academics.

The SEC is the looking like the best of the rest.

It's pretty much self-fulfilling at this point. Nearly all the AAU teams or top 100 Research U with BCS sports are packed into 3 conferences

It's irrelevant though since the BE was formed with a lot of private schools, many of which never did research. So, the fact that Georgetown and Notre Dame never shows up on the stats you use tells us very little about the academic quality of those schools.

It's just irrelevant anyway.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The Pac-10 Is About World-Class Academics

Chancellor Philip P. DiStefano

It is said that you are known by the company you keep. The University of Colorado at Boulder will be keeping very good company in the Pacific-10 Conference as its newest and 11th member.

We are the only member of the prestigious Association of American Universities in the Rocky Mountain West. The Pac-10 has seven fellow AAU members. We are honored to become the eighth.....
We have a long history of research collaborations with our counterparts in the Pac 10........

I agree with you and have been pushing this angle as well, but we're mostly alone on the board. If you go back to the UConn 2000 announcement and the announcement of the decision to upgrade football to D1A that came two years later, it was very clear that the reason we moved up to D1A status was to change our neighborhood. To hang out with prestigious public schools. UConn named UVA, UNC and Michigan specifically. Quite honestly, if they thought back in 1997 that we'd be in a conference with Boise St. Houston, SFU, CFU, Louisville and Cincy, I think they don't make the move. I really believe the emphasis on adding Navy and is mostly about offsetting the perception of weak academics.

For every report that says the B1G didn't consider academics with Nebraska, I see another one that says that if they knew UN would lose AAU status, they wouldn't have invited them. The Big XII was arguably stronger than the SEC academically before the raids cost them Colorado, A&M and now Missouri. If you look just at US News rankings rather than research dollars, the ACC actually tops the B1G and Pac 10. But Schools like Miami and Wake drag down the research side.

 

[NutmegState]

It's USF and UCF.

As for the OP, my advice : Don't hold your breath.

 

[huskyrob1]

No one is arguing football culture. But citing Miami and Syracuse and Pitt proves our point. They have football histories. But their current product is vastly overrated by the football community compared to their actual performance. Does having Miami make the ACC a stronger football conference? Yes as to history and prestige. Yes as to academics (though not the team's academics). But on the field? No, it doesn't.

On the field this year I might grudingly agree that ACC football is in an onfield pause, but still they are better than UCONN, Louisville, South Florida, Rutgers or Cincy by quite a bit. Even in this down year for ACC football Clemson, VTech, or Georgia Tech would demolish any remaining Big East school. Have not checked on the exact number, but getting back to history for a moment, including accepted invitees, the ACC brings 20 or 30 NC's in football to the table, and that translates into a tremendous football culture that's not going away anytime soon.

 

[businesslawyer]

On the field this year I might grudingly agree that ACC football is in an onfield pause, but still they are better than UCONN, Louisville, South Florida, Rutgers or Cincy by quite a bit. Even in this down year for ACC football Clemson, VTech, or Georgia Tech would demolish any remaining Big East school. Have not checked on the exact number, but getting back to history for a moment, including accepted invitees, the ACC brings 20 or 30 NC's in football to the table, and that translates into a tremendous football culture that's not going away anytime soon.

You refuse to accept that "history" is not the best timeframe to analyze current realities from. In "history," England has won more wars and battles and conquered more countries than the U.S. So friggin what? How would that effect your analysis of the relative strength of the two parties.

On the field, since the ACC rated the Big EAst last time, how many BCS bowls has the ACC won? The answer is one. How many has the Big East won? The answer is three. Computer rankings over those eight years would show you no material difference between the overall strength of the two leagues. So any claim of superiority goes back to performances over a decade ago. If that's relevant to you, great. But recognize that to many it's not.

ACC added Syracuse and Pitt. On the field, since the last ACC raid, that addition, and subtration from the Big East, changes nothing. WVU leaving the Big EAst will make the Big East not as strong. Bringing Boise in clearly makes it stronger. Beyond that, we'll have to see.

 

[huskyrob1]

You refuse to accept that "history" is not the best timeframe to analyze current realities from. In "history," England has won more wars and battles and conquered more countries than the U.S. So friggin what? How would that effect your analysis of the relative strength of the two parties.

On the field, since the ACC rated the Big EAst last time, how many BCS bowls has the ACC won? The answer is one. How many has the Big East won? The answer is three. Computer rankings over those eight years would show you no material difference between the overall strength of the two leagues. So any claim of superiority goes back to performances over a decade ago. If that's relevant to you, great. But recognize that to many it's not.

ACC added Syracuse and Pitt. On the field, since the last ACC raid, that addition, and subtration from the Big East, changes nothing. WVU leaving the Big EAst will make the Big East not as strong. Bringing Boise in clearly makes it stronger. Beyond that, we'll have to see.

I'm talking the present football culture as well as history, and you know that. So you should add present military culture and military industrial complex to your laughable US/England war comparison and then see how ridiculous it looks. Football culture and associated booster and fan base, recruiting, the ability to sign and retain great coaching comes from that history and tradition to some degree as well. And it's light years ahead of anything the Big East has in it's present form. I could also make my point from the perspective of NFL players from the ACC vs The BE, and not even include EJ Manuel, Phillip Rivers, Russell Wilson or Michael Vick!

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

On the field this year I might grudingly agree that ACC football is in an onfield pause, but still they are better than UCONN, Louisville, South Florida, Rutgers or Cincy by quite a bit. Even in this down year for ACC football Clemson, VTech, or Georgia Tech would demolish any remaining Big East school. Have not checked on the exact number, but getting back to history for a moment, including accepted invitees, the ACC brings 20 or 30 NC's in football to the table, and that translates into a tremendous football culture that's not going away anytime soon.

Hopefully the Big East can convince the POWER HOUSE Army program to the Big East. They have incredible history and have won NCs! Army is a historic power house!!!

 

[huskyrob1]

Hopefully the Big East can convince the POWER HOUSE Army program to the Big East. They have incredible history and have won NCs! Army is a historic power house!!!

On problem there is the football culture is not nearly what it used to be. Though I will admit, IF and it's a big IF, Army were to join the BE that would be a good thing for the BE conf, but I have my doubts that they will.

 

[mavblues]

On problem there is the football culture is not nearly what it used to be. Though I will admit, IF and it's a big IF, Army were to join the BE that would be a good thing for the BE conf, but I have my doubts that they will.

I think your sarcasm detector is broken...

 

[huskyrob1]

I think your sarcasm detector is broken...

LOL! Yeah maybe it is.