I Wouldn't Be Surprised To Get An Acc Invite In The Next Week

[HuskyHawk]

Hopefully the Big East can convince the POWER HOUSE Army program to the Big East. They have incredible history and have won NCs! Army is a historic power house!!!

Right, but let's not trade the undefeated powerhouse Houston Cougars for that unranked team of yesterday at Ohio State. History is irrelevant right?

History matters. It matters a ton in TV ratings, more so than current performance. Ohio State vs. Washington would trounce Cincy vs Houston on TV. Notre Dame embodies this. But the history can't be so old that current recruits and TV viewers don't even remember it. The current Indiana basketball program is trending dangerously close to that line now. Army is long since past it. So is Syracuse FB for that matter. But to suggest that history at Bama, LSU, Michigan, OSU, Nebraska, OU etc. doesn't give them an edge year in and year out over other programs is just crazy. Basketball is the same. UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA and Duke will always have an edge.

Clemson and FSU (maybe VT and GT) have an edge over every BE team, including Boise. Whether they take advantage of it is another story. The history could go stale. Miami is certainly pissing their brief history away. New histories can be made, as Boise is showing and UConn basketball has shown. But to do it you fight the current rather than riding with it. Schools with tradition can return to glory more easily than a school with no history can gain it.

 

[huskyrob1]

Right, but let's not trade the undefeated powerhouse Houston Cougars for that unranked team of yesterday at Ohio State. History is irrelevant right?

History matters. It matters a ton in TV ratings, more so than current performance. Ohio State vs. Washington would trounce Cincy vs Houston on TV. Notre Dame embodies this. But the history can't be so old that current recruits and TV viewers don't even remember it. The current Indiana basketball program is trending dangerously close to that line now. Army is long since past it. So is Syracuse FB for that matter. But to suggest that history at Bama, LSU, Michigan, OSU, Nebraska, OU etc. doesn't give them an edge year in and year out over other programs is just crazy. Basketball is the same. UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA and Duke will always have an edge.

Clemson and FSU (maybe VT and GT) have an edge over every BE team, including Boise. Whether they take advantage of it is another story. The history could go stale. Miami is certainly pissing their brief history away. New histories can be made, as Boise is showing and UConn basketball has shown. But to do it you fight the current rather than riding with it. Schools with tradition can return to glory more easily than a school with no history can gain it.

Agree with you on Miami, they are on thin ice. Maybe Golden can bring back the glory but we will see. Is Lou Saban or Howard Schnellenberger still around?

 

[freescooter]

I'm talking the present football culture as well as history, and you know that. So you should add present military culture and military industrial complex to your laughable US/England war comparison and then see how ridiculous it looks. Football culture and associated booster and fan base, recruiting, the ability to sign and retain great coaching comes from that history and tradition to some degree as well. And it's light years ahead of anything the Big East has in it's present form. I could also make my point from NFL players from the ACC vs The BE, and not even include EJ Manuel, Phillip Rivers, Russell Wilson or Michael Vick!

The ACC's football culture is just not that big a thing. Not all tha tmuch better than the Big East's. They don't draw huge crowds, outside of Clemson and Florida State and when they aren't winning those two don't set the world on fire, either. Wake and Duke can't come close to selling out 30,000 seat venues. Georgia Tech doesn't sell out. Maryland's AD sent a letter to alumni litterally begging them to show up at Terp games. The attendance at the ACC Championship game has been historically dismal and it got bumped from ABC to ESPN, and might well end up on ESPN 2 or even U because it just can't compete with any of the others.

 

[Waquoit]

We ain't going anywhere. We're stuck, just like at the end of Shogun.

 

[huskyrob1]

The ACC's football culture is just not that big a thing. Not all tha tmuch better than the Big East's. They don't draw huge crowds, outside of Clemson and Florida State and when they aren't winning those two don't set the world on fire, either. Wake and Duke can't come close to selling out 30,000 seat venues. Georgia Tech doesn't sell out. Maryland's AD sent a letter to alumni litterally begging them to show up at Terp games. The attendance at the ACC Championship game has been historically dismal and it got bumped from ABC to ESPN, and might well end up on ESPN 2 or even U because it just can't compete with any of the others.

At least Wake and Duke have D1 football teams, can't say the same for Villanova, St Johns, or Georgetown. LOL!

 

[huskyrob1]

We ain't going anywhere. We're stuck, just like at the end of Shogun.

Maybe you're right but then again maybe you're not. My own opinion, based on some info and a lot of hope is that we will be in the ACC by this time next year.

 

[magical2]

what is going on really disgusts me, IT does amaze me that the ACC finds itself in such a strong position.Potetionally there strength becomes an even more powerful Basletball program!

 

[huskyrob1]

what is going on really disgusts me, IT does amaze me that the ACC finds itself in such a strong position.Potetionally there strength becomes an even more powerful Basletball program!

Is it disgusting? Yeah maybe, but Swofford is one smart cookie if you ask me. He's doing to the conference landscape what Sam Walton did for super market and dept store chains.

 

[RS9999X]

If football culture alone ruled these decisions then we'd see (2) 13 team conferences that play 12 games a season and the 2 champs meet in a Super Bowl.

Insular. Exclusive.

All other sports would be separate contracts/conference alignments.

We may see that someday. When they realize the Flippers are on a free ride and add nothing of value and are quite happy to allow themselves to "not struggle" or aspire to quality then they will negotiate football contracts separately and consolidate the football media contract into the 26 teams. 65,000 seat stadiums or larger. 60,000 average in attendance or higher. Recertify every 5 years. Top 26 teams based on performance.

Extract those top 26 teams from the rest as football only and we could have Sanity. Normalcy. And a separate bowl system..

 

[freescooter]

If football culture alone ruled these decisions then we'd see (2) 13 team conferences that play 12 games a season and the 2 champs meet in a Super Bowl.

Insular. Exclusive.

All other sports would be separate contracts/conference alignments.

We may see that someday. When they realize the Flippers are on a free ride and add nothing of value and are quite happy to allow themselves to "not struggle" or aspire to quality then they will negotiate football contracts separately and consolidate the football media contract into the 26 teams. 65,000 seat stadiums or larger. 60,000 average in attendance or higher. Recertify every 5 years. Top 26 teams based on performance.

Extract those top 26 teams from the rest as football only and we could have Sanity. Normalcy. And a separate bowl system..

Nah. You need somebody to beat. You just do. It can't be too tough for the LSUs of the world. They need to have a certain number of almost guarenteed wins every year. And when you see all those teams going 9-3 fans will complain that the quality isn't as good as it used to be.

 

[SAMCRO]

On the field this year I might grudingly agree that ACC football is in an onfield pause, but still they are better than UCONN, Louisville, South Florida, Rutgers or Cincy by quite a bit. Even in this down year for ACC football Clemson, VTech, or Georgia Tech would demolish any remaining Big East school. Have not checked on the exact number, but getting back to history for a moment, including accepted invitees, the ACC brings 20 or 30 NC's in football to the table, and that translates into a tremendous football culture that's not going away anytime soon.

Is that the same Clemson team that USF demoplished last year in their Bowl game?
It's not just this year the ACC has been down. If anything, this year is about the weakest the BE has been. Go look at the conference computer rankings (all of them) over the past 4 years, the ACC and BE are pretty much on par with one another. Prestige wise - it's all ACC. Objective based rating wise - it's pretty near a draw.

 

[flyonthewall]

For those who doubt the power of the academic side here is a link to the CIC, the B1G academic consortium which btw also includes the University of Chicago from long ago when they were in the B10. http://www.cic.net/Home.aspx

I have friends who are on the faculty of some B1G schools and they would pitch a fit if the athletic side ever wanted to leave for another conference. That is why Penn State to some sort of Eastern conference is a non-starter.

 

[huskyrob1]

Is that the same Clemson team that USF demoplished last year in their Bowl game?
It's not just this year the ACC has been down. If anything, this year is about the weakest the BE has been. Go look at the conference computer rankings (all of them) over the past 4 years, the ACC and BE are pretty much on par with one another. Prestige wise - it's all ACC. Objective based rating wise - it's pretty near a draw.

Go find out how many ACC players were drafted by the NFL last year vs the Big East, then we'll talk. Or check out this link...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/10357194

 

[businesslawyer]

Go find out how many ACC players were drafted by the NFL last year vs the Big East, then we'll talk. Or check out this link...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/10357194

I love that. So Ben Gordon was one of the two or three best players at UConn because he was drafted #3. Pro sports and college sports are different. Having the most pro players on your team doesn't make you a good team. The ACC produces more NFL players than anyone than the SEC. You really want to make the case they've been the second best conference. Not even their coaches, sober, would bother trying to do that.

 

[huskyrob1]

Having the most pro players on your team doesn't make you a good team.

You could not be more wrong, of course having a lot of NFL caliber players makes you a good team, just like having a lot of NBA caliber players makes you a good college bball team. Does it guarantee you a championship or even conf runnerup or only 3 or 4 losses on the year? No it doesn't, but it does make you a really tough team especially as the game goes into the 2nd half. Just ask KState or Ohio State about 4-3 Miami or Kansas about Georgia Tech w/ 2 losses.

Your brilliant comparisons and metaphors are giving me a headache, and please stop trying to drag a UCONN basketball legend like Ben Gordon into your feeble attempt at refutation. Sorry Ben

 

[SAMCRO]

Go find out how many ACC players were drafted by the NFL last year vs the Big East, then we'll talk. Or check out this link...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/10357194

Where to start. Okay, first off, my favorite line in the link is "A total of 252 colleges were represented on Kickoff 2007 Weekend rosters." The article you linked is from 2007. Even if it was from last week, what does the # of NFL players have to do w/ how good a college TEAM is? Also, the ACC better have more players on NFL rosters than the BE since they have 4 more teams in their league.

Second, you still didn't address a single thing in my response. Was the superior Clemson team you referenced the same one who had their rses handed to them by USF? Check the computer ranking over the past 4+ years comparing both conferences. Check the head to head results. The on the field product/results is pretty comparable. Put SU and Pitt in the ACC and add Boise, Houston, UCF, etc... to the BE. The BE just got stronger, the ACC got weaker. Not in prestige, not in history, but in actual on the field strength.

Don't get me tong, I hope UConn ends up in either the B1G (doubtful) or ACC (possible), but the quality of FB will not be that much better in the ACC.

 

[huskyrob1]

Where to start. Okay, first off, my favorite line in the link is "A total of 252 colleges were represented on Kickoff 2007 Weekend rosters." The article you linked is from 2007. Even if it was from last week, what does the # of NFL players have to do w/ how good a college TEAM is? Also, the ACC better have more players on NFL rosters than the BE since they have 4 more teams in their league.

Second, you still didn't address a single thing in my response. Was the superior Clemson team you referenced the same one who had their rses handed to them by USF? Check the computer ranking over the past 4+ years comparing both conferences. Check the head to head results. The on the field product/results is pretty comparable. Put SU and Pitt in the ACC and add Boise, Houston, UCF, etc... to the BE. The BE just got stronger, the ACC got weaker. Not in prestige, not in history, but in actual on the field strength.

Don't get me tong, I hope UConn ends up in either the B1G (doubtful) or ACC (possible), but the quality of FB will not be that much better in the ACC.

Gee, how come UCONN is ranked so high in the pre season after losing Kemba? Andre Drummond? Yeah but he hasn't played one college game yet, I don't get it? And does having an NBA caliber stud on the team really make them a lot better? According to some people on the football side probably not. Could he start now in the NBA or be a1st round draft pick? Nah. Should UCONN be ranked so high? Nah.

But to answer your question on Clemson, no it's not the same team from last year. Is UCONN the same team from last year? LOL!

 

[SAMCRO]

Gee, how come UCONN is ranked so high in the pre season after losing Kemba? Andre Drummond? Yeah but he hasn't played one college game yet, I don't get it? And does having an NBA caliber stud on the team really make them a lot better? According to some people on the football side probably not. Could he start now in the NBA or be a1st round draft pick? Nah. Should UCONN be ranked so high? Nah.

But to answer your question on Clemson, no it's not the same team from last year. Is UCONN the same team from last year? LOL!

No, UConn isnt the same as ly a new HC, OC, and DC and QB will do that. I mentioned before you should check out the computer rankings of each conference over the past 4+ years, and you'd be surprised at how well the BE stacks up v. ACC. I'll save you the time. Per Sagarins, one of the computers used in the BCS, the average conference ranking over the past 5 years ('06-'10 seasons), the BE's average is the 4th best conference out of the 6 BCS conferences. ACC's is ranked 5th, and the B10 is 6th out of the 6 BCS conferences. In those 5 seasons, the BE conference as a whole finished ranked higher than the ACC 3 times, and higher than the B10 4 times. This isn't my opinion, it's straight from the unbiased computers. Adding BSU, Houston, UCF, and others actually strengthens the rankings. So despite what ESPiN will tell you every week, from top to bottom, the BE stacks up just fine against the almighty ACC and the B10, and is not that far off of the B12 and P10. The SEC is heads and shoulders above the rest.

In prestige, history, name recognition, etc... the BE doesn't stack up. In actual on field results it did.

Now, all this being said, I really hope we get into either the ACC or B1G.

 

[businesslawyer]

You could not be more wrong, of course having a lot of NFL caliber players makes you a good team, just like having a lot of NBA caliber players makes you a good college bball team. Does it guarantee you a championship or even conf runnerup or only 3 or 4 losses on the year? No it doesn't, but it does make you a really tough team especially as the game goes into the 2nd half. Just ask KState or Ohio State about 4-3 Miami or Kansas about Georgia Tech w/ 2 losses.

Your brilliant comparisons and metaphors are giving me a headache, and please stop trying to drag a UCONN basketball legend like Ben Gordon into your feeble attempt at refutation. Sorry Ben

Winning games makes you a good team. Doesn't matter if you have players with more next level potential or not. But always glad to know I couldn't be more wrong. At least you have my wife backing you up.

 

[mets1090]

But always glad to know I couldn't be more wrong. At least you have my wife backing you up.

Lol

 

[huskyrob1]

In prestige, history, name recognition, etc... the BE doesn't stack up. In actual on field results it did.

Now, all this being said, I really hope we get into either the ACC or B1G.

If you want to go back 4 years, maybe you have an argument for a draw. That is of course when the Big East was a strong conf, we still had Cuse and Pitt, WVU had Pat White and Slaton, USF was ranked as high as 2 or 3 IRC, Louisville was ranked very high also. Keep in mind that my original beef was with BL's assertion that the Big East TODAY, even NOW with the loss of WVU, Cuse and Pitt is a stronger football conf than the ACC. That is just a crazy assertion IMO. Since then, Edsall bolted for Maryland, Petrino left Louisville, Leavitt was fired for hitting a player, Rich Rod left for Michigan. Things change.

 

[huskyrob1]

Winning games makes you a good team. Doesn't matter if you have players with more next level potential or not. But always glad to know I couldn't be more wrong. At least you have my wife backing you up.

LOL! I hope you take her to the games.

 

[SAMCRO]

If you want to go back 4 years, maybe you have an argument for a draw. That is of course when the Big East was a strong conf, we still had Cuse and Pitt, WVU had Pat White and Slaton, USF was ranked as high as 2 or 3 IRC, Louisville was ranked very high also. Keep in mind that my original beef was with BL's assertion that the Big East TODAY, even NOW with the loss of WVU, Cuse and Pitt is a stronger football conf than the ACC. That is just a crazy assertion IMO. Since then, Edsall bolted for Maryland, Petrino left Louisville, Leavitt was fired for hitting a player, Rich rod left for Michigan. Things change.

It's not 4 years ago, it's the average over the last 5 years. Want to go year by year (per Sagarins), okay: 2010 advantage ACC, 2009 advantage BE, 2008 advantage ACC, 2007 and 2006 advantage BE.Shoot, Cinci was 1 second away from playing for a NC in 2009. wVU was a choke job away from playing for a NC in 2007. Everybody rips on the BE in the media b/c it's an easy target. When you remove all the bias and "historical relevance" from the argument, the BE is on par with the ACC. It sounds crazy, ridiculous, and unbelievable because the mouth pieces at ESPN keep telling you it is. Computers have no bias.

 

[huskyrob1]

It's not 4 years ago, it's the average over the last 5 years. Want to go year by year (per Sagarins), okay: 2010 advantage ACC, 2009 advantage BE, 2008 advantage ACC, 2007 and 2006 advantage BE.Shoot, Cinci was 1 second away from playing for a NC in 2009. wVU was a choke job away from playing for a NC in 2007. Everybody rips on the BE in the media b/c it's an easy target. When you remove all the bias and "historical relevance" from the argument, the BE is on par with the ACC. It sounds crazy, ridiculous, and unbelievable because the mouth pieces at ESPN keep telling you it is. Computers have no bias.

Don't forget 2011, seasons almost over.

 

[mattp]

What neigborhood do you live in? Or does it matter? Does it matter if you go to an Ivy League (Conference) School?

Does it matter if Herbst is trying to partner with Yale as a regional on some projects? Does she aspire to look down stream for academic partners? What social circles do you travel in? Does it matter?

I think you miss the conceit completely. The BiG and PAC-12 and ACC and now the SEC can point to themselves as the best conferences there are for Div I Academics and Athletics. Ivy League? Closer to the Ivy than the Big Sprawl.

so what you're saying is, no, you don't have any examples of a school's academics being impacted by a change in athletic conference. you could have just said that instead of asking about what neighborhood i live in. there's no causal relationship between the two. has Tulane taken a step back academically since leaving the SEC? of course not. FSU will still admit a potato even though they're in the ACC. there's basically no relationship between athletic conference and academics. just b/c a university president says so for a PR move doesn't mean there's any merit to it.