I can't help myself (Tenn, merged thread) | Page 4 | The Boneyard

I can't help myself (Tenn, merged thread)

I know that many UConn fans will never forgive Pat and TN for accusing UConn of recruiting violations. I’m not one of them. Pat wrote up her infamous 40 pg memo to the NCAA shortly before she was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, a disease that would take her life soon thereafter.

Take some time to read up on early symptoms of Alzheimer’s: irritability, difficulty reasoning, impatience, etc. There is considerable evidence that Pat was battling early onset Alzheimer’s when she wrote her memo. I for one forgive her.

My mother died of Alzheimer's, or complications there from. Know all about it. I, too, wondered whether her spite and accusations were symptoms of her yet undiagnosed disease.

But that doesn't let off the hook her AD, who put forward those accusations. And it doesn't let HW off the hook for failing to apologize in the many years since. Or to at least attempt to put the controversies in the past by talking about scheduling a game with Connecticut.

No, HW had every opportunity to make things right, but failed to do so. That's on her.
 
Pat Summitt did not write the accusations against UConn. Did she allow them to go forward to the SEC. That she is responsible for. The accusations were written a Moderator on the Tenn Fan Board, "The Summitt". This person along with a couple of her friends has a hatred for everything Geno and UConn. They were willing to do anything to take down Geno and UConn and the Women's AD Department went along with them. Tenn had separate Men's and Women's AD's at that time.
Yes, some AH on a TN’s fan board first raised the charges against UConn. But make no mistake about it. The AD may have sent out the detailed report to the NCAA, but they would never have done so without the full support and participation of Pat who could have easily put a stop to it given her position at UT. When UT ended the season series with UConn, it was Pat, not the AD who took some verbal swings at Geno.

I am convinced Pat was suffering from Alzheimer’s at the time. It is time for Husky fans to let go of this.
 
Thank you msf22b.... yes on the coaches.... would be nice for TN fans to see an alpha coach take the reins..... I am with the Volnation posters who would love Kara to give it a go.... I am a big Kara fan.... love her as announcer.... but don't think her heart is in HC job..... she likes the trajectory she is on now....

Yes tough gritty.... that would be a big plus.... you know who I liked.... Bashara Graves.... and before that Stricklen.... wonderful players.. with fight in them.... what happened to the Tennessee "fight" .. Westbrook was pretty pedestrian yesterday.... with 6 turnovers.... and not a lot of visible "grit' and then to say openly at end of game.... that staff should change wow....

I think the wonderful players the LVs have can change if given a new environment within which to play... in the 10 or so games I saw Tenn play this year ... I never saw Rennia "get after it" as Holly likes to say.... to say she is an attitude problem is an overreach for me because I do not know her... but it sure looks like that.... she looks like she frequently does not care about her play.... play offense when she feels like it, and defense is not too good..... I would rather have a Michelle Marciniak or Tamika Catchings.... every game they were in you knew you had a fight on your hands....

Maybe change will get there.....hope for you folks that happens

The thing is that the game has progressed since Tennessee last won a championship, last went to the Final Four, last was a "great program." Honestly, the game doesn't need Tennessee anymore. Great coaches have made their marks at Baylor and Louisville, at Oregon and Notre Dame, at Mississippi State and Maryland. The glory that was Tennessee is a thing of the past.

The future is with the long-time greats like Geno and Tara and Muffet, and with the new greats at Louisville and Baylor and, perhaps, South Carolina.

If one or more of the Tennessee All-Americans on the team, or signed to go there, changes her mind, it will close the books on Tennessee and HW.

And the game will be just fine.
 
My mother died of Alzheimer's, or complications there from. Know all about it. I, too, wondered whether her spite and accusations were symptoms of her yet undiagnosed disease.

But that doesn't let off the hook her AD, who put forward those accusations. And it doesn't let HW off the hook for failing to apologize in the many years since. Or to at least attempt to put the controversies in the past by talking about scheduling a game with Connecticut.

No, HW had every opportunity to make things right, but failed to do so. That's on her.
So here’s the problem I have with your suggestion. Pat pushed these charges. Pat ended the series with UConn. Pat was and is a legend at TN. You’re asking a TN AD (there have been 3-4 since Pat retired) or a woman who worships her memory to apologize on her behalf. That would be akin to Geno’s successor apologizing to everyone on the receiving end of all the less than civil comments he’s made through the years. It’s water under the bridge and it ain’t gonna happen.

If Geno is willing to forgive and forget, we should certainly be willing to follow his lead.
 
My mother died of Alzheimer's, or complications there from. Know all about it. I, too, wondered whether her spite and accusations were symptoms of her yet undiagnosed disease.

But that doesn't let off the hook her AD, who put forward those accusations. And it doesn't let HW off the hook for failing to apologize in the many years since. Or to at least attempt to put the controversies in the past by talking about scheduling a game with Connecticut.

No, HW had every opportunity to make things right, but failed to do so. That's on her.
@Fairfield Fan --You Nailed it. BLAME the UT administration/AD etc. I doubt ALL of them had mental illnesses.
Sorry about your mom. We've had it too--hard to comprehend the words and actions until it is diagnosed. Bless you too living with one so afflicted isn't the easiest life. For caring for you mom I thank you.
 
Pat Summitt did not write the accusations against UConn. Did she allow them to go forward to the SEC. That she is responsible for. The accusations were written a Moderator on the Tenn Fan Board, "The Summitt". This person along with a couple of her friends has a hatred for everything Geno and UConn. They were willing to do anything to take down Geno and UConn and the Women's AD Department went along with them. Tenn had separate Men's and Women's AD's at that time.

I have believed that for years. There was a deeply entrenched old girls club at Tennessee and Pat Summitt was the chairman. Incensed at perceived negative recruiting of Maya Moore by Auriemma, they issued the really stupid list of silly "violations" because they didn't have the balls to come out with the real reason behind the "he cheated" accusation.
 
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You, know half of this thread sounds like it is just "ragging" on Tennessee. Be careful. It sounds almost like "glee" when you are speaking about the current condition of Tenneessee and it's players. What if Geno leaves and the new UConn coach turns this program into a second class program? What goes around comes around.

I feel pretty confident if and when the time comes, UConn will not sink to the level of the LadyVols...for one Holly will not be on the "short list".
 
So here’s the problem I have with your suggestion. Pat pushed these charges. Pat ended the series with UConn. Pat was and is a legend at TN. You’re asking a TN AD (there have been 3-4 since Pat retired) or a woman who worships her memory to apologize on her behalf. That would be akin to Geno’s successor apologizing to everyone on the receiving end of all the less than civil comments he’s made through the years. It’s water under the bridge and it ain’t gonna happen.

If Geno is willing to forgive and forget, we should certainly be willing to follow his lead.
DANG YOU @oldude! --How dare you use Intelligence, compassion, caring, and logic in your posting--I'm losing faith in this board.. Where did the nasties go? THANKS--well stated..
 
Knoxville TV reporter who is with the Tenn men's team (and fans, boosters, AD) in Columbus says decision on Holly could come as soon as Monday.
 
The word is that Horston and Westbrook are close and that Westbrook’s presence at TN is one of the primary reasons Horston chose the LV’s. Beyond that, the LV’s have another pg on the roster (Massengil) and the thought of throwing a freshman pg into a starting role at the mess that is TN WBB is not a very good option imo.

Massengill doesn't seem to have a lot of fans on the LV forum but I haven't watched her play so who knows if she is good enough to be given that job..............if the coach gets booted I'll be curious to see what Horston does........
 
Whoa there! That’s not entirely true. Fundamentals can mean different things to different people. I was at the game yesterday and let me review with this forum what I saw:
For warmups-UCLA was first out by about 8-10 min. They did some team short sprints with quick stops. Broke into 2 groups, 1 shooting, the other group of 5 did a 2 ball short passing drill, quick and efficient, forcing the women to quickly catch/pass anticipating the next ball. The groups switched and then They then did a nice little bounce pass layup drill before the normal layup and shooting.
TN came out during the end of the second passing group drill and did their layup line and shoot around. Their shooting and form were very good.
The game started with Westbrook being called for using her left arm to clear out the defender while dribbling. She got called another time for exactly the same infraction and didn’t get called any ot the other times she did it. At one point during the 1st Qtr was 7-1 in turnovers committed, just sloppy play and This is poor coaching.
The other noticeable item was Westbrook’s and Davis’s attitude-too much edge and angst but the passion was there only misdirected. Clearly Davis and Westbrook have skills but not in a cohesive offensive plan as Tennessee did not have one. Collins actually impressed me in the first have with her movement and shooting, again more her effort than in a team component.
When TN made their run in the 3rd Qtr, Westbrook and KK worked the high low very well and were heavily aided by poor offensive sets by UCLA (poor spacing/ill advised passes) and poor shot selection. Cori Close also waited too long to take a time out during this run.
Overall, the balance of scoring was heavily skewed in UCLA’s favor and is more evidence that Cori’s team is coached pretty well. Her in game management could improve but during timeouts, she was more engaged with the team than Holly was.

My impression was not a lack of effort by Tennessee but a lack of team structure to be effective. All traits we have bespoken for the last 4 years about Holly.

My take on Evina’s comments were she was pressed by that reporter after she said no comment and was led into saying something. Should she have said it, of course not, but it does show someone who cares.

On Holly, I actually agree she deserved the right to coach after Pat had to step down. Her first 3 years were pretty good but the last 4 have clearly proved she’s not a leader who can command respect nor shows any strong basketball teaching skills as evidenced by too many turnovers, too few assists and too many fouls.
Eegads, yesterday’s game had 43 fouls by both teams virtually all of which were correct. Fouls on defense show poor footwork and team communication, again a lack of coaching.
The long of it is, Tennessee is not well coached and needs to make a change.
Holly, however is correct that she loves the game, loves UT, loves the program and loves these young ladies. None of which qualify her to continue to coach this team.

Most fans at the game felt it was time for a change with only one I spoke with who was adamant that Holly had to go (not sure why he was there).

Just my humble impressions of what I saw.

Wow! Humble or arrogant, fantastic posting. Nice analysis, great compassion, not a bad word in a dozen. I enjoyed this read from apparently an intelligent and nice person.
I do disagree that the assistant in any program (CD's an Associate) is the heir apparent when a long time successful coach resigns. I believe in a search for a winning coach for a winning program. There is no guarantee either way whether UC will get another Geno or a HW. I dislike a coach using written direction during timeouts. A coach knows their team and from practices and games what each kid can and cannot do. Scratch the scratch sheets. --Really nice words and posting, just my uninformed beliefs on coaching heirs.
 
Most of you folks think that when Geno leaves there will be a "blip" in performance and recruiting from the new coach. I do hope that you are correct. History tells us that UConn goes for "cheap" in coaching. Geno makes good bucks teaching kids basketball. UConn will not pay those kind of dollars again for a new coach. Look at the football program. When they had the chance, they hired Edsall and two other nobodies before that. Why didn't they go to a highly successful program and steal a real winner away who can recruit by name, reputation and the rebuilding story? Are they going to go for Jeff Waltz, or Kim Mulkey at Baylor? Doubt it. They went to Rhode Island for the men's coach. What do you expect? They will not pay for the top people in Connecticut. They will accept mediocrity and blend into the AAC. The only way they can effect a great change is to hire Taurasi and Bird as Coach and Associate to carry this team into the future. Their names and their tenacity will get the best recruits and make sure the game is played the way Geno designed it. And, I do not care if you accept my opinion or not.
 
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TN has inherent advantages that UConn can only dream about. They play in one of the top P5 conferences in the country. As a result, they have the financial resources to maintain excellence through any coaching change. Obviously, they have a great history in WBB and a dedicated, although frustrated fan base. The LV’s continue to pull in top 5 recruiting classes year after year.

If you can guarantee Geno’s successor those program attributes, assuming you hire someone with a reasonable understanding of how to develop talent and team basketball strategy, they can be successful at UConn.

The difficulty after Geno hangs up his coaching whistle will be both financial in a state that is billions of dollars in the red, as well as continuing to attract top caliber recruits once you’ve lost the best coach in the history of WBB, while playing in a 2nd tier conference.
Dude-your points are well taken but ignore several key points including a successful player development and coaching philosophy that works today, not 10+ years ago. Suspect that the player alumni and Geno will not let UConn repeat TN's hiring mistakes. Geno likely to influence the best hire, not an emotional one per TN.
 
So I just went back and did another gander around VolNation, and some of the names they're putting up for HC... :eek::eek::eek:

Do they really think they have an honest shot of pulling Walz away from Louisville? Or Mulkey away from Baylor? Vic away from MSST? Graves from Oregon?

I know it's early, but this feels like when I would get toy catalogs before Christmas/Hanukkah and circle all of the things I wanted with zero abandon...
 
Dude-your points are well taken but ignore several key points including a successful player development and coaching philosophy that works today, not 10+ years ago. Suspect that the player alumni and Geno will not let UConn repeat TN's hiring mistakes. Geno likely to influence the best hire, not an emotional one per TN.
Actually, I specifically reference the assumption that UConn will hire “someone with a reasonable understanding of how to develop talent and a team basketball strategy.” I agree fully that Geno will be asked to provide input into the decision by the AD, and it is virtually unthinkable that UConn would hire anyone based solely on emotion and loyalty as TN did when Pat stepped down.
 
A corollary to this is that it also takes a player willing to commit to what the coaches are teaching.
If I was a TN fan, would blame the coach as much for her recruiting as coaching. Seems like entire team plays at 75%.
 
So I just went back and did another gander around VolNation, and some of the names they're putting up for HC... :eek::eek::eek:

Do they really think they have an honest shot of pulling Walz away from Louisville? Or Mulkey away from Baylor? Vic away from MSST? Graves from Oregon?

I know it's early, but this feels like when I would get toy catalogs before Christmas/Hanukkah and circle all of the things I wanted with zero abandon...
I’ve seen those comments on VolNation and quite frankly there’s no way anyone of those coaches leave their current jobs to go to Knoxville, unless TN is willing to pay something in the $3 million + range, and that ain’t happening.
 
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Yes, some AH on a TN’s fan board first raised the charges against UConn. But make no mistake about it. The AD may have sent out the detailed report to the NCAA, but they would never have done so without the full support and participation of Pat who could have easily put a stop to it given her position at UT. When UT ended the season series with UConn, it was Pat, not the AD who took some verbal swings at Geno.

I am convinced Pat was suffering from Alzheimer’s at the time. It is time for Husky fans to let go of this.
Agree that Pat had issues and also feel that the AD has been appropriately repaid by his replacement hire and her lack of success.
 
Hard not to feel sorry for Holly but she clearly is in over her head. Leaving the stage she looks like she has lost hope. Hate to say it but she is bad for UT basketball.

Seems to be the consensus, all around. Fans for the most part do feel sorry for Holly, as a person, but it's her coaching abilities...or lack of there of, that will ultimately do her in.
 
I’ve seen those comments on VolNation and quite frankly there’s no way anyone of those coaches leave their current jobs to go to Knoxville, unless TN is willing to pay something in the $3 million + range, and that ain’t happening.

Agreed. I think their best shot at pulling a coach from a top 10 program (really top seven because Muffy, Geno, and Tara aren't going anywhere) left when they anointed HW to take over. I think a few top coaches would have entertained the thought of picking up where Pat left off, but I don't foresee any of them coming to put out HW's dumpster fire.
 
Agreed. I think their best shot at pulling a coach from a top 10 program (really top seven because Muffy, Geno, and Tara aren't going anywhere) left when they anointed HW to take over. I think a few top coaches would have entertained the thought of picking up where Pat left off, but I don't foresee any of them coming to put out HW's dumpster fire.
On the other hand, there’s a lot of good coaches doing some really great things at mid-majors who would jump at the TN job, including the coach that Geno will be up against later today.
 
I’ve got no skin in this game personally, but I truly feel sorry for Holly. Not only is it a highly unenviable task for anyone to follow a legend, but she is clearly in well over her head...she’s a good person, apparently, and she loves UT, sure, but for any fan who has grown accustomed to Geno-coached teams and their style of play, it is readily evident that she cannot compete on this level. I’m just not into the whole schadenfreude thing when it comes to Tennessee...all based on ancient history. I’d much rather see them competitive on the level they once enjoyed than the sorry mess currently on display. Most importantly, as others have pointed our, I certainly hope we’re not witnessing a blueprint for the post-Geno years in Storrs!
 
Agreed. I think their best shot at pulling a coach from a top 10 program (really top seven because Muffy, Geno, and Tara aren't going anywhere) left when they anointed HW to take over. I think a few top coaches would have entertained the thought of picking up where Pat left off, but I don't foresee any of them coming to put out HW's dumpster fire.
If I were a UT fan, I am not, I would look hard at the Marquette coach, I believe she is special, she knows how to motivate her players and that is what is missing now at UT.
 
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I’ve seen those comments on VolNation and quite frankly there’s no way anyone of those coaches leave their current jobs to go to Knoxville, unless TN is willing to pay something in the $3 million + range, and that ain’t happening.

I check into VolNation about once a week to read the insanity. The "new coach" thread is pie in the sky at best.

Walz, Brenda, Vic, Graves and others are not coming. Katie Meir of Miami is mentioned quite a bit. No way she leaves Miami unless Duke comes calling. I believe she played at Duke. And I don't see Shea making the move to orange country, especially with a family.

And as much as I love Kara Lawson, I don't see her as a viable option. She has no coaching experience and UT is going to need an experience/ seasoned coach. As a reminder, a successful player does not mean you will be a successful coach. Two very different worlds.

There are excellent mid-major coaches that would be a real good fit at Tennessee. But I do believe there are serious problems with the program. Westbrook's comments make that very clear.
 
I check into VolNation about once a week to read the insanity. The "new coach" thread is pie in the sky at best.

Walz, Brenda, Vic, Graves and others are not coming. Katie Meir of Miami is mentioned quite a bit. No way she leaves Miami unless Duke comes calling. I believe she played at Duke. And I don't see Shea making the move to orange country, especially with a family.

And as much as I love Kara Lawson, I don't see her as a viable option. She has no coaching experience and UT is going to need an experience/ seasoned coach. As a reminder, a successful player does not mean you will be a successful coach. Two very different worlds.

There are excellent mid-major coaches that would be a real good fit at Tennessee. But I do believe there are serious problems with the program. Westbrook's comments make that very clear.

I have to admit, it is good therapy. :rolleyes:
 
You, know half of this thread sounds like it is just "ragging" on Tennessee. Be careful. It sounds almost like "glee" when you are speaking about the current condition of Tenneessee and it's players. What if Geno leaves and the new UConn coach turns this program into a second class program? What goes around comes around.
Yeah, that glee though seems most cemented around the NCAA thing and Pat at the end of her run.

The fact that trumps everything for me is that Pat came here on MLK day.

Anything after that is secondary.

Aside from that, apologize to Mom, and minimum reparations, if due, are satisfied.
 
So I just went back and did another gander around VolNation, and some of the names they're putting up for HC... :eek::eek::eek:

Do they really think they have an honest shot of pulling Walz away from Louisville? Or Mulkey away from Baylor? Vic away from MSST? Graves from Oregon?

I know it's early, but this feels like when I would get toy catalogs before Christmas/Hanukkah and circle all of the things I wanted with zero abandon...

They honestly think Tennessee is where everyone wants to coach. Just throw out the name and everyone will come running
 
They honestly think Tennessee is where everyone wants to coach. Just throw out the name and everyone will come running



ETA -- Let me make this a little less snarky. I think that all of the top programs feel that way about their school, their athletes, their fanbase, etc... How could someone, ANYONE, not want to be part of that legacy. If you look at how UConn fans dismiss players who choose to go somewhere else, how could they possibly want to be part of any other program. So the TN fans wonder why a coach would want to be part of any other program because they have the best.

I mean, good one them for still hanging on when things have gone tragically awry, but if the only thing you're asking for this Christmas is a brand new car but times are tough, don't complain when all you get is socks and underwear...
 
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