I can't help myself (Tenn, merged thread) | Page 2 | The Boneyard

I can't help myself (Tenn, merged thread)

There was a scene a few weeks ago
(can't remember the details)
that involved Evina's mom.
At the time it was suggested by UTenn watchers that her tenure (Evina's) was, perhaps nearing its end.
Her strange pre-game quotes and her post-game comments do little to alter that feeling.
 
I gotta admit I really enjoy watching Holly and the Lady Vols blow another first round game that they had in their hands. The lack of a coordinated O and D attack and use of time outs is mind boggling. THey have sooooo much talent but seemingly no direction when the game is in crunch time. Holly did not call a time out till 100 seconds left and UT down by 8 or 10 points. WTH.
 
Shorty Dee said:
That is proof Tennessee shouldn't have made the NCAA, but the Committee put them in because of the late Coach Pat Summit. I don't think Evina Westbrook should have commented about the Coaching Staff.
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Tennessee was in a game well into the fourth quarter as the 11th seed against a 6th seed. So the loss seems to be right in line with the committee seeding. Hard to find fault with it based on the result. If anything UCLA should have been a bit more dominant.

Interesting that TN really lost this by shooting 50% from the foul line. If they shot 80% they would have been up by 5 mid fourth quarter instead of tied.

As for a player dumping on a coach - not really a good look.

And I feel no sympathy for any of the players - TN has had a dumpster fire in terms of coaching for 8 years. These players only had to watch a few TN games during their recruiting to see how bad the play and coaching has been. Instead they bought into the hype instead of looking under the hood.
 
choochoo said:
Can not wait to see what that effort will reap. Their is no doubt she has the horses but can they handle the training?
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Sure TENN has the horses but perhaps the Volunteers have been stressing the wrong fundamentals. Everyone knows the old saw. You know the one I mean.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it put on its bathing suit.
How much time do you think Holly has the team practicing in the changing rooms at Macy's?
 
UcMiami said:
Tennessee was in a game well into the fourth quarter as the 11th seed against a 6th seed. So the loss seems to be right in line with the committee seeding. Hard to find fault with it based on the result. If anything UCLA should have been a bit more dominant.

Interesting that TN really lost this by shooting 50% from the foul line. If they shot 80% they would have been up by 5 mid fourth quarter instead of tied.

As for a player dumping on a coach - not really a good look.

And I feel no sympathy for any of the players - TN has had a dumpster fire in terms of coaching for 8 years. These players only had to watch a few TN games during their recruiting to see how bad the play and coaching has been. Instead they bought into the hype instead of looking under the hood.
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Yes, those 16-17 year olds should have known better
 
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choochoo said:
I gotta admit I really enjoy watching Holly and the Lady Vols blow another first round game that they had in their hands. The lack of a coordinated O and D attack and use of time outs is mind boggling. THey have sooooo much talent but seemingly no direction when the game is in crunch time. Holly did not call a time out till 100 seconds left and UT down by 8 or 10 points. WTH.
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Have not seen Tenn play much this year but amazed at the talent and amazed at the lack of coaching.
 
HuskyNan said:
Yes, those 16-17 year olds should have known better
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Well - these high recruit kids seem to eat and breath basketball and unlike 10 years ago, you can watch your favorite team's games on-line or on TV pretty consistently. They spend a lot of time on the recruiting process and have lots of advisers and trainers in their corner. They should have a pretty good idea about how the game should be played and when it looks 'right' and when it looks wrong. You watch ND or MsSt or Louisville play and it looks right almost every time, watch TN over the last decade and it hasn't.

So yeah, I think these 16 and 17 year olds should be able to see a little more than just the sign "Tennessee Invented the Game of Women's Basketball".
 
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There has been a lot of drama surrounding Westbrook at TN. LV fans have been critical of her for her play at pg due to TO’s, inconsistency, etc. IMO, the problem is, quite simply, Westbrook is out of position as a pg. Chalk it up to bad coaching.

A few weeks ago Westbrook was suspended for a game supposedly for missing a class and then had to issue a public apology for that transgression. Subsequently, her mother responded on social media, attacking her daughter’s critics and suggesting she would leave TN.

Finally, today Westbrook suggests there needs to be a coaching change at TN. While it might not have been prudent for Westbrook to make the comment publicly, I have to believe she is not the only player on the team that’s frustrated with the coaching staff.

Whether Westbrook goes, or HW goes remains to be seen. If HW goes do several players also leave, and does a certain top recruit out of OH withdraw her commitment?

Stay tuned...
 
BleedBlue72 said:
Obviously Jordan Horston likes where Tennessee is going!! Good luck in Knoxville!!!
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If HW resigns/is fired and/or Westbrook leaves TN, don’t be surprised if Ms Horston withdraws her commitment to the LV’s.
 
southofnorth said:
I don’t know where I stand on this statement. I don’t think players should badmouth their coaching staff or schools, but I also don’t think they should be expected to give cookie cutter answers or lie when asked a serious question. Something is clearly wrong and Evina Westbrook was upset. She shouldn’t be talking about the staff because it’s generally just not a good idea to blame a group of people that recruited you and you agreed to play for. That said, I don’t see how this is much different than asking a coach about why a player transferred or about the attitude/behavior of some players and the coach giving a candid response. Especially when coaches constantly say things like, “the players need to figure it out” or “it’s about the players being tough” (something that Holly Warlick has done on multiple occasions), I don’t see why it’s okay for a coach to say those things without repercussions, but a player can express displeasure with coaching staff without being made into a villain. Again, I don’t know exactly where I stand, but I can’t imagine that these were appropriate questions to ask a player.
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I've read somewhere in the past that the losing team would get a cooling off period before the press could question them in the locker room. This tough loss seems to be like that where it's not surprising that a player could say something in the heat of the moment and could use a cooling off period
 
Shorty Dee said:
I don't think Evina Westbrook should have commented about the Coaching Staff.
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I 100% agree with you on this one, and if I’m in the mix for this job, I’m going to look at a player making these comments as a huge red flag.
 
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UcMiami said:
Well - these high recruit kids seem to eat and breath basketball and unlike 10 years ago, you can watch your favorite team's games on-line or on TV pretty consistently. They spend a lot of time on the recruiting process and have lots of advisers and trainers in their corner. They should have a pretty good idea about how the game should be played and when it looks 'right' and when it looks wrong. You watch ND or MsSt or Louisville play and it looks right almost every time, watch TN over the last decade and it hasn't. So yeah, I think these 16 and 17 year olds should be able to see a little more than just the sign "Tennessee Invented the Game of Women's Basketball".
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That's just it @UcMiami most of them have no idea what good basketball looks like. Even worse, many of them believe that it maybe wrong for everyone else but THEY will make it right because THEY are so supremely talented. The programs you mention UCONN, ND, MsSt and a few others are the exceptions. For the vast majority of the other programs fundamentals, knowledge of the game & effort are negotiable items.
 
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CocoHusky said:
]

That's just it @UcMiami most of them have no idea what good basketball looks like. Even worse, many of them believe that it maybe wrong for everyone else but THEY will make it right because THEY are so supremely talented. The programs you mention UCONN, ND, MsSt and a few others are the exceptions. For the vast majority of the other programs fundamentals, knowledge of the game & effort are negotiable items.
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:)
Yeah, but so few are making decisions on their own these days. They have AAU and HS coaches, and personal trainers in their corner - those people should have a better idea. (I leave parents on the side because they are more hit and miss in terms of anything beyond their daughters talent.)

And TN is not just a little below other schools in terms of their brand of basketball - they have genuinely looked terrible in terms of coaching and player development - it isn't looking at team like UNC which has been mediocre in terms of results
 
Been thinking for a while now that what we're seeing is a kind of organized resistance, a work slow down, if you will, from the players on this team. One game things click, next game the wheels go in different directions. It's almost as if they want to speed up the regime change..
 
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UcMiami said:
Well - these high recruit kids seem to eat and breath basketball and unlike 10 years ago, you can watch your favorite team's games on-line or on TV pretty consistently. They spend a lot of time on the recruiting process and have lots of advisers and trainers in their corner. They should have a pretty good idea about how the game should be played and when it looks 'right' and when it looks wrong. You watch ND or MsSt or Louisville play and it looks right almost every time, watch TN over the last decade and it hasn't.

So yeah, I think these 16 and 17 year olds should be able to see a little more than just the sign "Tennessee Invented the Game of Women's Basketball".
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The parental influence steering these kids to big name schools has increased greatly over the last 10-15 years and is a big factor in the large increase in transfers. That’s not to say they shouldn’t be involved, especially academically but a lot of parents buy the hype of the website “analysts” and the AAU coaches about the kid’s talent and think the kid is good enough to play anywhere. Then the kid winds up in a poor coaching situation or a numbers crunch.
 
oldude said:
If HW resigns/is fired and/or Westbrook leaves TN, don’t be surprised if Ms Horston withdraws her commitment to the LV’s.
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What is the rule on that signed LOI?
 
BobbyJ said:
Zero fundamentals before and after arriving on campus. That talent is overrated by the gurus with Westbrook topping the list.
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I dont think so at all. The trio of Westbrook, Davis and Green are extremely talented but play in an offense with zero discipline. These players are coming from HS and Aau programs where the entire offense likely revolved around them so they havent learned how to find their role on a team with other talented players. It is something that Holly doesnt teach and most players at other programs take a year two to find their role (ex. Megan Walker, Jackie Young, Lauren Cox). Put these players on disciplined offensive teams and have them play for a coach who can teach and motivate, then you'll see how good they really are. Look at how much better Alexa Middleton and Te'a Cooper are at their new programs. Both looked awful at Tennessee and I never saw either as being very talented. If you told me 2 years ago that Middleton would be a starting PG for a top 10 team, I would've said you're insane.

2017 class was weak overall, so she may not be as good as other #1/#2 recruits but Westbrook is extremely talented. Big guard with range, athletic and can take you off the dribble, hit the pull up jumper, find a teammate, etc. Shed be dynamic as a 2 guard and can light opposing teams up. As a PG she is turnover prone but she has good vision and finds teammates well.

Green is also great off the dribble and has a very good pullup jumper. She can hit from deep and had glimmers of greatness this season, especially her first half vs. Notre Dame.

Davis has a great inside out game and can take over games on the wing.


If any of them elect to transfer, theyll be very hot commodities and most here would salivate at the opportunity to land one of them.

Even Mimi Collins looked very good in limited minutes as a frosh. Good around the basket and a great perimeter shot for a forward. Their very good players. It's just dreadful coaching.
 
bballnut90 said:
I dont think so at all. The trio of Westbrook, Davis and Green are extremely talented but play in an offense with zero discipline. These players are coming from HS and Aau programs where the entire offense likely revolved around them so they havent learned how to find their role on a team with other talented players. It is something that Holly doesnt teach and most players at other programs take a year two to find their role (ex. Megan Walker, Jackie Young, Lauren Cox). Put these players on disciplined offensive teams and have them play for a coach who can teach and motivate, then you'll see how good they really are. Look at how much better Alexa Middleton and Te'a Cooper are at their new programs. Both looked awful at Tennessee and I never saw either as being very talented. If you told me 2 years ago that Middleton would be a starting PG for a top 10 team, I would've said you're insane.

2017 class was weak overall, so she may not be as good as other #1/#2 recruits but Westbrook is extremely talented. Big guard with range, athletic and can take you off the dribble, hit the pull up jumper, find a teammate, etc. Shed be dynamic as a 2 guard and can light opposing teams up. As a PG she is turnover prone but she has good vision and finds teammates well.

Green is also great off the dribble and has a very good pullup jumper. She can hit from deep and had glimmers of greatness this season, especially her first half vs. Notre Dame.

Davis has a great inside out game and can take over games on the wing.


If any of them elect to transfer, theyll be very hot commodities and most here would salivate at the opportunity to land one of them.

Even Mimi Collins looked very good in limited minutes as a frosh. Good around the basket and a great perimeter shot for a forward. Their very good players. It's just dreadful coaching.
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I won’t disagree with you on this as you see them more than I. My observations are based on seeing them 3-4 times this season and I just wasn’t impressed. I do agree the coaching can be a big factor.
 
CocoHusky said:
]

That's just it @UcMiami most of them have no idea what good basketball looks like. Even worse, many of them believe that it maybe wrong for everyone else but THEY will make it right because THEY are so supremely talented. The programs you mention UCONN, ND, MsSt and a few others are the exceptions. For the vast majority of the other programs fundamentals, knowledge of the game & effort are negotiable items.
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Actually Coco, one can find good BB fundamentals up and down the breadth of the country...and not only in the tops teams Effective switching defenses, offenses that highlight a team's strengths; the Geno effect is going great guns. He lobbied for better coaching and he's got it.
Surely not everyone, but the sprouts are visible.

Which leads us back to poor UTenn...I disagree with Nan on this one (rare). Hard to believe how little players improved and how disappointing their professional careers were...Do you think a 14/15 year old doesn't notice that. Poor Bashaara Graves for example; such a fine, talented kid...withered away.

I don't understand how they get the class of kids they do.

Holly (in her public pronouncements) seems to emphasize unfocused brute effort, something she understands rather than skills and/or technique...which she doesn't. At times her pressing D is effective...but it's not based on sound fundamentals once the team breaks into the offensive zone, wide open lanes to the basket appear.

And let's not forget, this team is chuck full of MacD All-Americans.
Their haphazard play must be enormously frustrating to them.

There are lots of folks who would love the chance to turn that program around...We'll know in the next few days whether the admin has been pushed far enough in that direction.
 
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