Holly Breaking the Wrong Records

[Plebe]

I think people are getting a bit carried away. Let's not overreact, people!

Here are my top 10 reasons why Holly should remain as head coach:

1. She was handpicked by Pat Summitt herself to lead this program!
2. She's a really nice person!
3. She's an outstanding recruiter!
4. She wears folksy collared shirts!
5. She was an All-American point guard at Tennessee!
6. She's a LVFL!
7. Her team is really young. They're on the verge of turning the corner, I can feel it!
8. Jordan Horston is coming to Knoxville next year. She'll be the savior!
9. She's really good at the wolf whistle!
10. She's not afraid to admit when she doesn't know something!

 

[chuck.r]

I don’t dislike Holly, I dislike a lot of the fan base. That being said, for me, this press conference was hard to watch. It is clear Holly is hurting, frustrated, at a loss. But this is not the first press conference of this nature. If this is me, I’d be sick and tire of being in this awful, terrible position.

IMHO The best thing that could happen for Tennessee, their fans, and their program is if Holly would resign.

I am sure the AD does not want to fire Holly. That is another wound this program, that is still aching from Coach Summitt’s terrible illness, just doesn’t need or want. I would like to think Holly can put enough separation between her lifelong commitment to the LV’s and the health and future of the program to walk away. I can imagine that prospect is heartbreaking for her. Your entire life’s work flashing before your eyes.

I hope she can do it. This slow train wreck is a disaster for the long term health of what once was a premier program.

I imagine she sees resigning as a form of 'quitting', and having been associated with so much success, so much championship success, well - a champion never quits. She will stay and endure for the duration because that's what winners and champions do, plus she appears to be a very honorable person, and thus she will fulfill her contract to its conclusion.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don’t dislike Holly, I dislike a lot of the fan base. That being said, for me, this press conference was hard to watch. It is clear Holly is hurting, frustrated, at a loss. But this is not the first press conference of this nature. If this is me, I’d be sick and tire of being in this awful, terrible position.

IMHO The best thing that could happen for Tennessee, their fans, and their program is if Holly would resign.

I am sure the AD does not want to fire Holly. That is another wound this program, that is still aching from Coach Summitt’s terrible illness, just doesn’t need or want. I would like to think Holly can put enough separation between her lifelong commitment to the LV’s and the health and future of the program to walk away. I can imagine that prospect is heartbreaking for her. Your entire life’s work flashing before your eyes.

I hope she can do it. This slow train wreck is a disaster for the long term health of what once was a premier program.

BTW @jennyo70 that press conference was from last year.

 

[eebmg]

BTW @jennyo70 that press conference was from last year.

Holly's press conferences are timeless. As relevant then as now.

 

[JordyG]

BTW @jennyo70 that press conference was from last year.

Even when they win her post pressers are hard to watch. What a debacle. Meanwhile the VolNation board is a brutal combination of a modern wake and a Dionysian rite of flesh rending. If you don't know where the site is just follow the blood splatter patterns.

 

[CocoHusky]

I imagine she sees resigning as a form of 'quitting', and having been associated with so much success, so much championship success, well - a champion never quits. She will stay and endure for the duration because that's what winners and champions do, plus she appears to be a very honorable person, and thus she will fulfill her contract to its conclusion.

I don't see any honor in this situation. I see delusion and apathy.

 

[mbr33ct]

"We just didn't play hard; we didn't play hard," Warlick said. "We didn't play with any energy, any emotion, any heart. Alabama played with more heart and energy than we did."

UT Lady Vols collapse against Alabama 86-65 as losing streaks grow

That's meme material right there and I don't mean Jackson.

 

[chuck.r]

I don't see any honor in this situation. I see delusion and apathy.

I was merely offering my take on what her perspective might be on the idea of resigning. And no one thinks of themselves as delusional and apathetic.

 

[oldude]

Here’s a question for the BY to ponder. Has there ever been a powerhouse WBB program that has remained a powerhouse WBB program after the departure of a legendary and/or successful coach? I can’t really think of one off hand, which leads to a somewhat ominous conclusion for our own beloved team.

 

[CocoHusky]

Warlick Postgame Presser at Alabama

 

[JordyG]

This game, once again, shows how Holly, one of the best recruiters in WCBB (give her credit) teaches both sides of the court: Whatever side her defense is one she kinda teaches. Holly's entire offensive scheme is based on TO's and transition. She doesn't teach modern offensive basketball because she doesn't know how. Neither did Pat for that matter.

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it. Her offensive ideas are antiquated. You cannot in these times expect players to play half court dump it into the middle first and if that fails, create. Not without first teaching them the myriad options off of every offensive position on the floor. That's part of being a modern coach in BB at the college level. That's part of being a modern leader of women in sports. Her style of offense is really abrogating the leadership she should show and passing it onto her players. Holly isn't just a failure, for her entire tenure she's been an abject failure.

It's not going to change down there on Rocky Top while she's at the helm. You can't teach what you don't know. It didn't take Dawn long to figure that out. Because Dawn was willing to say "I don't know" she went out and learned. She was willing to bite the bullet this year and risk mediocrity. Her team now plays a well spaced, option offense that will pay dividends next year. Will Holly be fired this year? No way. Not while she's still under contract. But that contract can be seen as a two year trial. Guaranteed it won't be renewed.. Will she resign this year? Only if they don't make the NCAA's. Then the pressure would be too much.

 

[oldude]

Warlick Postgame Presser at Alabama

I really do believe HW is a nice person, so that interview is painful to watch. But as a college b-ball coach with 38 years of experience, the fact that she doesn’t have a clue what’s wrong with this team is inexcusable. What’s worse, as others have pointed out, we’ve seen this show from HW time and time again for the past 7 years, since she took over the reigns as HC of the LV’s.

 

[JordyG]

I really do believe HW is a nice person, so that interview is painful to watch. But as a college b-ball coach with 38 years of experience, the fact that she doesn’t have a clue what’s wrong with this team is inexcusable. What’s worse, as others have pointed out, we’ve seen this show from HW time and time again for the past 7 years, since she took over the reigns as HC of the LV’s.

Ya don't know what you don't know. "Something is zapping our energy. I don't know" Sad.

 

[JordyG]

Here’s a question for the BY to ponder. Has there ever been a powerhouse WBB program that has remained a powerhouse WBB program after the departure of a legendary and/or successful coach? I can’t really think of one off hand, which leads to a somewhat ominous conclusion for our own beloved team.

On the men's side. Not the women's. But it's even rare in MCBB.

 

[DefenseBB]

I think people are getting a bit carried away. Let's not overreact, people!

Here are my top 10 reasons why Holly should remain as head coach:

1. She was handpicked by Pat Summitt herself to lead this program!
2. She's a really nice person!
3. She's an outstanding recruiter!
4. She wears folksy collared shirts!
5. She was an All-American point guard at Tennessee!
6. She's a LVFL!
7. Her team is really young. They're on the verge of turning the corner, I can feel it!
8. Jordan Horston is coming to Knoxville next year. She'll be the savior!
9. She's really good at the wolf whistle!
10. She's not afraid to admit when she doesn't know something!

I see what you're doing here...

 

[Bear11]

Here’s a question for the BY to ponder. Has there ever been a powerhouse WBB program that has remained a powerhouse WBB program after the departure of a legendary and/or successful coach? I can’t really think of one off hand, which leads to a somewhat ominous conclusion for our own beloved team.

I had a similar thought the other day. Has any WBB program made the Final Four under 2 different coaches?

 

[UcMiami]

I wrote a critique of HW a few years ago and I remember a really frightening interview she gave her first year in which she said: My plan is to do exactly what Pat did, I watched her for so many years and that is exactly what I am going to do [because I have not one original thought in my head.] So here is a recap:

1. In game I get the sense she doesn't actually understand what is happening on the court beyond when the ball goes in the basket at either end. She will invariably wait until a player starts to heat up for her to be substituted out of the game, and will stick with a player until she starts to heat up.

2. She has embraced the tried and true offensive philosophy of chuck it and rebound like crazy. (This was to a large degree Pat's offensive philosophy as well.) I really wonder if they practice any type of offensive plays beyond perhaps on ball screens. They never seem to run anything and their players have no idea of what a good (or bad) shot looks like except again based on if the ball somehow goes through the hoop. And absolutely no sense of how to attack a zone.

3. The extent of defensive philosophy seems to be 'getting down in a stance' and showing 'intensity'. Weak side help, different specific plans to deal with defending screens, any type of team defense seems to be a mystery to her and her teams.

4. Individual teaching of skills let alone team skills seems to be anathema - certainly a lot of promising talent has regressed seriously during four years at TN. A few players had enough skill coming in that four years of stagnation still has allowed them to recharge as pros, but ...

So back to that interview and what has followed - I imagine Holly has a book she compiled from Pat's last few years of coaching that outlines exactly what each practice Pat ran during the 'average season' contained, and sticks to it religiously - if this is day 12 of preseason, we spend 10 minutes in warm ups, followed by 20 minutes of practicing zone defense, followed by 20 minutes of 5 on five, followed by ... And that is exactly what happens whether they have actually accomplished anything during any of the sessions. And they rarely accomplish anything because HW doesn't actually understand what is supposed to be taught, or learned, or what is actually happening on the floor during those sessions (beyond whether the ball goes through the hoop.)

I do enjoy the angst overwhelming Volland, but do feel sorry for some of the players - Graves a few years ago had a brilliant run on one of the USA basketball teams and I really liked what I saw, but her last years at TN were terrible and someone who should have been a solid pro, lasted two disappointing years on the bench.

 

[DefenseBB]

So up next is Mike Neighbors and a slightly rejuvenated Arkansas team (next four games are at Tennessee). This is a must win game for Holly and Lady Vol faithful. After that is Notre Dame then LSU and Florida and then at the dumpster fire that is Stephanie White and the Commodores. This could get even uglier. She needs to go 4-1 with this set of schools to get to the middle of the SEC pack (would put her at 4-4). She finishes the SEC schedule @MSU; vs. Auburn; @ Mizzou; @Texas A&M; vs. SC; vs. Vanderbilt and then @ Ole Miss.

While I agree Holly is no quitter, depending how ugly this continues to get, I could see Fulmer giving her the "grace" to resign and get reassigned in the Athletic Department as something of an ambassador or whatever you want to call it. However, I am not convinced that they will make a smart higher and will still with Pat's coaching tree, which would be a huge mistake. Simply put, this has to be the contract she gets and to let it expire, though her making it 2.5 years is getting to be a longshot.

 

[JavaMan]

So up next is Mike Neighbors and a slightly rejuvenated Arkansas team (next four games are at Tennessee). This is a must win game for Holly and Lady Vol faithful...

If they don't win this game I'm thinking that a full 50% of the Vol Nation faithful will have to be put on suicide watch.

 

[meyers7]

If they don't win this game I'm thinking that a full 50% of the Vol Nation faithful will have to be put on suicide watch.

Not sure who's gonna watch them, cause the other 50% will have already committed suicide.

 

[jennyo70]

BTW @jennyo70 that press conference was from last year.

Yeah, and other than the names changing, it could have been from last night. I can imagine being very heartbroken watching this as a LV fan. I’ll try to be more gracious about my dislike of their fans as a result.

 

[Plebe]

I do enjoy the angst overwhelming Volland, but do feel sorry for some of the players - Graves a few years ago had a brilliant run on one of the USA basketball teams and I really liked what I saw, but her last years at TN were terrible and someone who should have been a solid pro, lasted two disappointing years on the bench.

Graves actually got worse in her four years at Tennessee. I'll never forget her demeanor in a presser after one of their inexplicable SEC losses during her senior year. She looked like she was at her best friend's funeral. I'm sure she's a fine person and my heart goes out to her. But hey, bad choices have consequences.

 

[LoTrader]

Oregon State was an even worse disaster than what is going on at UT (albeit, Oregon State did not have the history of UT). OSU Athletic Director went out and hired a successful D3 head coach who won the ncaa D3 championship. When Scott Rueck took over the program, there were not even 5 players on the roster. Rueck held try-outs 9 years ago just to field a team. If Vol Nation wants a different result, it can be achieved. Somebody in that Athletic Department needs to do their job, or, they should be fired. It is just that simple.

 

[EricLA]

I wrote a critique of HW a few years ago and I remember a really frightening interview she gave her first year in which she said: My plan is to do exactly what Pat did, I watched her for so many years and that is exactly what I am going to do [because I have not one original thought in my head.] So here is a recap:

1. In game I get the sense she doesn't actually understand what is happening on the court beyond when the ball goes in the basket at either end. She will invariably wait until a player starts to heat up for her to be substituted out of the game, and will stick with a player until she starts to heat up.

2. She has embraced the tried and true offensive philosophy of chuck it and rebound like crazy. (This was to a large degree Pat's offensive philosophy as well.) I really wonder if they practice any type of offensive plays beyond perhaps on ball screens. They never seem to run anything and their players have no idea of what a good (or bad) shot looks like except again based on if the ball somehow goes through the hoop. And absolutely no sense of how to attack a zone.

3. The extent of defensive philosophy seems to be 'getting down in a stance' and showing 'intensity'. Weak side help, different specific plans to deal with defending screens, any type of team defense seems to be a mystery to her and her teams.

4. Individual teaching of skills let alone team skills seems to be anathema - certainly a lot of promising talent has regressed seriously during four years at TN. A few players had enough skill coming in that four years of stagnation still has allowed them to recharge as pros, but ...

So back to that interview and what has followed - I imagine Holly has a book she compiled from Pat's last few years of coaching that outlines exactly what each practice Pat ran during the 'average season' contained, and sticks to it religiously - if this is day 12 of preseason, we spend 10 minutes in warm ups, followed by 20 minutes of practicing zone defense, followed by 20 minutes of 5 on five, followed by ... And that is exactly what happens whether they have actually accomplished anything during any of the sessions. And they rarely accomplish anything because HW doesn't actually understand what is supposed to be taught, or learned, or what is actually happening on the floor during those sessions (beyond whether the ball goes through the hoop.)

I do enjoy the angst overwhelming Volland, but do feel sorry for some of the players - Graves a few years ago had a brilliant run on one of the USA basketball teams and I really liked what I saw, but her last years at TN were terrible and someone who should have been a solid pro, lasted two disappointing years on the bench.

That was a really excellent analysis of what Holly does as a HC. She's a tremendous recruiter, but what's really troubling, is that it's SO obvious to everyone else what the problems are, but she's completely clueless about it.

If you watch her pressers, it's all about "I don't what happened". "We got outworked". "They showed more heart and effort" blah blah. Here's a thought - teach your team some actual offense and defense and THEN complain about the effort...

I know this may not be a popular sentiment, but i do NOT feel sorry for the players. They CHOSE to go to Tennessee. Any of them can watch Tenn on TV all the time and see what a train wreck the offense and defense is (aside from "play intense pressure defense"). A kid who wants to go there and be a star or savior - that's on her. Holly has shown herself to be a great recruiter and from what I understand, recruits not only the players, but their family, and preaches about the Tennessee family. It's a winning recipe for recruiting, but kids need to look deeper.

At this point, there are probably at least 50 other teams out there who have coaches who teach better offense and defense and team basketball. Many of those coaches are in the mid majors. Tennessee has great facilities and history, but is an average academic school and kids have to be at least moderately aware of how the team plays. It's on them for choosing that school...

I'm torn between rooting for them to self destruct, and be good enough for Holly to keep her job. No way do I want her to leave.

 

[EricLA]

Yeah, and other than the names changing, it could have been from last night. I can imagine being very heartbroken watching this as a LV fan. I’ll try to be more gracious about my dislike of their fans as a result.

Please don't LOL