GoT Season Seven

[HuskiesAllDay]

A co-worker just brought this one up. With all the illogical time travelling in the last 8-10 episodes, Davos whipping around from Dragonstone to the Wall to Kings Landing, etc.....how come the white walkers aren't where they need to be already? They're dead so they can just walk nonstop. They don't get tired. Don't need to eat. Yet, they've marched and marched and marched while Varys travels wherever he wants in a blip.

I've been thinking this for a while too. I usually dismiss the time travel inconsistencies since I realize they have to speed things up. But this makes no sense. No matter how slow the dead are moving, they would surely be at the wall by now.

The AoD attacked Hardhome in Season 5 episode 8. To put this time frame into perspective, this was the same episode that Cersei was still a captive and had yet to do her walk of shame.

Look at the map below.

Hardome is the top circle in the upper right. The distance between Hardhome and Eastwatch is about 1/4 to 1/5 of the distance between Eastwatch and Winterfell. Somehow the dead haven't made it that far in almost two seasons, yet Euron can travel around the world and back in a single episode.

I have been wondering what is taking them so long for a while now.

Edit: now that I think about it, if they travel this slow, are they even an immediate threat? Clearly they are a big threat, but Jon is acting like they will be here tomorrow. At this rate, they wont even reach winterfell for another 8 seasons. Which puts them at Kings Landing 25 after that. So by season 40 the AoD should finally reach KL

 

[intlzncster]

A co-worker just brought this one up. With all the illogical time travelling in the last 8-10 episodes, Davos whipping around from Dragonstone to the Wall to Kings Landing, etc.....how come the white walkers aren't where they need to be already? They're dead so they can just walk nonstop. They don't get tired. Don't need to eat. Yet, they've marched and marched and marched while Varys travels wherever he wants in a blip.

Have you seen the horses those things ride on? They're slow as !@#k.

And they need to have those dead 'meetings' now and again.

 

[Excalibur]

Yes, but didn't Jon, as commander of the watch, essentially relieve Sam when he sent him to the Citadel? I believe his official obligation is over.

He sent him to the Citadel to become the new Maester for the Night's Watch. In fact, now that I think about it, Sam has also now disobeyed a direct order from the (then) Lord Commander.

 

[intlzncster]

Semi-related to the white walkers taking their time, does anyone in Jon's group heading out to bring a zombie back know that they (allegedly) can't pass the wall? Or is it okay if people bring them through, like the 2 bodies brought into Castle Black way back when?

On the topic of time and traveling, I wondered why Jon Snow didn't make a stop a Winterfell before going to Eastwatch. He hasn't seen Bran and Arya in years and thought they were dead. Instead of seeing them, even briefly, he heads off on a near-suicide mission. It also might have been helpful to see all the other northern lords in person, tell them he secured access to the dragonglass, keep listening to Sansa and he has to go to Eastwatch on important, King of the North business. It would have been really rushed on the show and not made sense from a time and distance standpoint, but there were some benefits to doing it.

Are you referring to the wall being 'enchanted' so to speak? If so, I'd imagine the juice is failing....and winter is coming.

Otherwise they can scale it or break a door down with ease.

 

[Excalibur]

I've been thinking this for a while too. I usually dismiss the time travel inconsistencies since I realize they have to speed things up. But this makes no sense. No matter how slow the dead are moving, they would surely be at the wall by now.

The AoD attacked Hardhome in Season 5 episode 8. To put this time frame into perspective, this was the same episode that Cersei was still a captive and had yet to do her walk of shame.

Look at the map below.

View attachment 24165

Hardome is the top circle in the upper right. The distance between Hardhome and Eastwatch is about 1/4 to 1/5 of the distance between Eastwatch and Winterfell. Somehow the dead haven't made it that far in almost two seasons, yet Euron can travel around the world and back in a single episode.

I have been wondering what is taking them so long for a while now.

Didn't they also chase Bran to whatever tree he was in?

 

[intlzncster]

On the topic of time and traveling, I wondered why Jon Snow didn't make a stop a Winterfell before going to Eastwatch. He hasn't seen Bran and Arya in years and thought they were dead. Instead of seeing them, even briefly, he heads off on a near-suicide mission. It also might have been helpful to see all the other northern lords in person, tell them he secured access to the dragonglass, keep listening to Sansa and he has to go to Eastwatch on important, King of the North business. It would have been really rushed on the show and not made sense from a time and distance standpoint, but there were some benefits to doing it.

Way out of the way. Eastwatch is a boat ride from Kings Landing. At least that part makes sense. Jon's whole mission is to save humanity right now. And he's not putting that aside for anything. Including reunions.

 

[intlzncster]

Why do they need Cersei's help/alliance? Why do they care if she believes the AoD is coming? Dany wants the throne and Cersei cant do anything to stop her at this point. So what use is Cersei to them as a strategic partner?

I imagine some of the plan is to 1) use all available forces, ie the Lannister Army and 2) to keep Cersie and said armies occupied, so she can't further cement herself or even attack from behind.

Does he not know Cersei better than anyone? Even IF they somehow needed Cersei's help, does Tyrion expect her to believe them? Clearly she will assume its some clever trick or will dismiss it altogether. Even IF she does believe them. does Tyrion really expect her to act as an honorable ally? Again, why do they even need her in the first place???

I don't think it's a stretch for her. She's got an essentially undead protector of her own in the Mountain. Whether she cares or not is another story.

I think Tyrion will be expecting a double cross.

the plan is to just capture one somehow and then run back? They don't take any horses? What is the plan to subdue it? Will it survive the journey to KL?

It's not alive bro.

I think the plan is to capture a White (resurrected corpse). Not a White Walker, which would be impossible.

 

[John]

I imagine some of the plan is to 1) use all available forces, ie the Lannister Army and 2) to keep Cersie and said armies occupied, so she can't further cement herself or even attack from behind.



I don't think it's a stretch for her. She's got an essentially undead protector of her own in the Mountain. Whether she cares or not is another story.

I think Tyrion will be expecting a double cross.



It's not alive bro.

I think the plan is to capture a White (resurrected corpse). Not a White Walker, which would be impossible.

maybe Cersie takes a look at this sample White and thinks of it as one of a million unrecruited soldiers for her Lannister army?

 

[Scalito]

My understanding is that the walkers can't pass, but the resurrected dead folks can.

The dead cannot pass according to Uncle Benjen. That's why he doesn't follow Bran after bringing him to the Wall. Of course, a dead man attacked Mormount in Castle Black, so something is off between Benjen's claim and that fact.

 

[Scalito]

The whole wight capture plot is pretty ridiculous.

It has created one heck of an awesome team. And it will make for an awesome episode.

But it doesn't really make any sense.

Why do they need Cersei's help/alliance? Why do they care if she believes the AoD is coming? Dany wants the throne and Cersei cant do anything to stop her at this point. So what use is Cersei to them as a strategic partner?

Is the show going to continue to ruin Tyrion? After all his strategic mis-steps this season, this is his plan? Does he not know Cersei better than anyone? Even IF they somehow needed Cersei's help, does Tyrion expect her to believe them? Clearly she will assume its some clever trick or will dismiss it altogether. Even IF she does believe them. does Tyrion really expect her to act as an honorable ally? Again, why do they even need her in the first place???

Seems like Tyrion has gone the way of LF and Varys in that he went from a critical character and strategic genius to an "i'm also still here" character. Although LF has an opportunity at redemption with the new Arya plotline. tbd there.

The plan itself is so dumb too. Take a few guys and head out to face a 50k strong army of zombies and the plan is to just capture one somehow and then run back? They don't take any horses? What is the plan to subdue it? Will it survive the journey to KL?

I try not to get upset by the time and distance inconsistencies as I realize they have to wrap this all up. But this plan, I don't know. I'm pretty excited for the episode, but it all seems pretty dumb and illogical. It all seems forced as a way to get these characters together for whatever reason and to give us a whitewalker battle/scene to fill the season quota to remind us they are still coming before they actually come next season.

(1) It is a dumb storyline.

(2) Coulda been less dumb if needed to convince Dany.

(3) If they had expedited things by flying a dragon there it makes it a little more worth the effort and time and advances the plot in an important way by getting Johnny on a dragon.

 

[auggie22]

They have nowhere to go - surrounded on all sides by water, or a magical wall that keeps them at bay. The only thing they can do is wander the north looking for free folk to fill there ranks until the stalemate is broken, presumably.

 

[businesslawyer]

A co-worker just brought this one up. With all the illogical time travelling in the last 8-10 episodes, Davos whipping around from Dragonstone to the Wall to Kings Landing, etc.....how come the white walkers aren't where they need to be already? They're dead so they can just walk nonstop. They don't get tired. Don't need to eat. Yet, they've marched and marched and marched while Varys travels wherever he wants in a blip.

Yeah, like White Walkers would have gps built into their cell phones.

 

[Scalito]

I'm on board with this too. The chained dragon scene in Mereen nailed that home for me. Partly cause I want it to be so.

The bold would imply that Tywin was also purposely harboring a bastard Targaryen which is something I never really thought about. Playing the long game to overthrow Baratheon.

Tyrion is a Targ . . . in the Books. No doubt in my mind there. Tywin reportedly resigned as Aegon's Hand when Aegon refused to marry Rhygaer to Cersei, but the real reason is Aegon raped Tywin's wife (we know the Mad King raped his own wife and there is a hint I cannot recall indicating he enjoyed looking at Tywin's wife). Tywin also reportedly only really ever loved his wife (his feelings for his kids was always self love), which explains why he didn't kill a dwarf of uncertain parentage and yet refused to make Tyrion heir of the Rock.

Throw in all the dragon love from Tyrion at a young age, some eye coloring that is more Targ than Lannister, and the need for a 3rd Targ according to Maester Aemon ("the dragon must have 3 heads), and there you have it. Almost as good as R+L=J.

All that said . . . doubt it happens on the show.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Yes, she's fooled. She thinks that Littlefinger is hiding evidence that Sansa once wanted her family to bend the knee for Joffrey. Well duh? This isn't news to Arya. I don't think it will have the intended effect.

Well the final touch was him making sure he was heard saying "Lady Stark thanks you" so Arya thinks he got it for Sansa so Sansa could do what she wanted with the evidence.

One potential option is that Arya confronts Sansa, who says she hated that monster and admits she was a stupid girl. Then Sansa asks where she got the note. Arya reveals how she found it and they both know Littlefinger is trying to stir dissent. That's how I see it going down actually.

Or Arya knows that if Sansa didn't want the raven note out anymore she would have it destroyed by Baelish or brought directly to her, not have Baelish be a needless middle-man

 

[BlueHen]

Gathering a bigger undead army before they make the big push south?

Maybe they needed winter to come before making their move south?

 

[CTMike]

 

[temery]

Is there any question that John Snow is going to hitch up with the dragon queen.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The dead cannot pass according to Uncle Benjen. That's why he doesn't follow Bran after bringing him to the Wall. Of course, a dead man attacked Mormount in Castle Black, so something is off between Benjen's claim and that fact.

There are always going to be plot problems when magic gets too important to the story.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Is there any question that John Snow is going to hitch up with the dragon queen.

Like Rabbits.

 

[temery]

Where is the picture from. If it's a spoiler, not say.

Like Rabbits.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Where is the picture from. If it's a spoiler, not say.

Note the dark hair on Emilia. Not a spoiler. Magazine shoot. Rolling Stone I think.

 

[CTMike]

Is there any question that John Snow is going to hitch up with the dragon queen.

I don't know, I just don't see it. Seems too obvious.

 

[temery]

Note the dark hair on Emilia. Not a spoiler. Magazine shoot. Rolling Stone I think.

That's why I asked. Blonde isn't really my thing, but she pulls it off beautifully.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's why I asked. Blonde isn't really my thing, but she pulls it off beautifully.

I actually think she looks much better with her natural hair color.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm really hoping Jon gets with Sansa, when he finds out they're cousins.... Just for @August_West