Geno doesn't see same women's game Candice Wiggins complains about

[mdakota]

Just odd to see a college coach making such comments about a WNBA matter. Now, if a WNBA coach comes out and comments I am more likely to listen.

He has an opinion, as do you, as do I, as does everyone else here commenting... you don't want to listen, don't listen. It's easy

 

[easttexastrash]

He has an opinion, as do you, as do I, as does everyone else here commenting... you don't want to listen, don't listen. It's easy

Really. I doubt that you want to hear my opinion and you are listening.

I added a smiley face so that everyone knows that was a joke.

 

[mdakota]

Really. I doubt that you want to hear my opinion and you are listening.

Actually I'm reading... not listening... I agree with Geno 100%. thank you

 

[easttexastrash]

Actually I'm reading... not listening... I agree with Geno 100%. thank you

You can read? I thought you had to have someone read it to you and type your replies for you.

 

[mdakota]

You can read? I thought you had to have someone read it to you and type your replies for you.

Yeah see... I'm not going to play this little game with you... I, in no way, have tried to put you down. Yet here you are, insinuating that I cannot read because I don't have the same views as you. You related to CW??

 

[Lobo50Fan]

Just odd to see a college coach making such comments about a WNBA matter. Now, if a WNBA coach comes out and comments I am more likely to listen. Can you imagine Coach K discussing NBA matters just because he has a connection to the NBA players through his national team experience and some of the NBA players being former players?

Gary Kloppenburg:
"I enjoyed coaching Candice Wiggins for two WNBA seasons and I was surprised by her negative comments about her time in the league. 1/3"
"I never witnessed any situation like Candice detailed. She was an extremely hard worker, a great competitor and a respected teammate. 2/3"
"The WNBA is an elite-level basketball league that prides itself on being inclusive and caring about the well-being of all its players. 3/3"

Jenny Boucek:
"Wasn't my experience. #WNBA" among other re-tweets...

 

[easttexastrash]

Yeah see... I'm not going to play this little game with you... I, in no way, have tried to put you down. Yet here you are, insinuating that I cannot read because I don't have the same views as you. You related to CW??

That was my way of trying to exit with a humorous comment, which I thought would be perceived as a joke. I guess what we have all learned tonight is that harassment is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[easttexastrash]

Gary Kloppenburg:
"I enjoyed coaching Candice Wiggins for two WNBA seasons and I was surprised by her negative comments about her time in the league. 1/3"
"I never witnessed any situation like Candice detailed. She was an extremely hard worker, a great competitor and a respected teammate. 2/3"
"The WNBA is an elite-level basketball league that prides itself on being inclusive and caring about the well-being of all its players. 3/3"

Jenny Boucek:
"Wasn't my experience. #WNBA" among other re-tweets...

Now THAT is is a well thought out comment by a coach, not one filled with insults toward the player in question. Kudos to Kloppenburg for being respectful to Wiggins yet also standing up for the WNBA.

 

[bballnut90]

1) Geno has insulted the best of the best - you expect special exempt status for Candice Wiggins?

2) Remember, "vendetta" is an Italian word.

I don't expect exempt status for Wiggins, but it doesn't change the fact that Geno made some pretty disparaging and classless remarks about Wiggins. Not that a whole lot of class has been exhibited by Wiggins in this situation...but I don't think you'd ever see other top level coaches make remarks similar to the ones Geno made. Can you imagine the uproar on this board if Muffett or Kim Mulkey make comments like this about a Connecticut player?

 

[mdakota]

That was my way of trying to exit with a humorous comment, which I thought would be perceived as a joke. I guess what we have all learned tonight is that harassment is in the eye of the beholder.

No worries, I knew it was a joke, but I wanted to make a point, and you hit the nail on the head with your last sentence.

 

[easttexastrash]

No worries, I knew it was a joke, but I wanted to make a point, and you hit the nail on the head with your last sentence.

Thanks for the thoughtful dialogue. And you never made me feel harassed. I didn't want you to worry about that as you were trying to go to sleep tonight.

 

[bballnut90]

I do agree it was a little unnecessary to say she wasn't a good basketball player. Her WNBA career wasn't as sparkly as her Stanford career, but she was a strong role player and injuries do have a tendency to take a toll and slow one down. She focused then on her defense and took pride in the fact that she could annoy those she was defending and that she was one of the most hated in the league for her defense, her own words. That alone is something that could rub many the wrong way, as some here have stated.

I do like that Geno wanted to know how she was bullied. I remember watching an interview Sue Wicks did about when Becky Hammon was in training camp trying to make the team and how everyone was fighting for their spot, knocking everyone down, beating them up, and doing all they could to earn that position. I'm not suggesting I know anything about what happened, no one but Candice does, but this type of physicality is normal in the WNBA. Being knocked to the ground is not uncommon.

It is understandable to be on both sides and to see both sides and most of the players and coaches that have spoken up have taken that position. While they themselves haven't seen, heard, or experienced the type of treatment Candice claims to have gone through, they aren't saying she's a liar or that she's wrong (most of them aren't anyway). What many have a problem with, aside from her lack of facts and proof other than her word, is her gross generalization of a community that makes up a large part of the league and the fanbase. It gives critics validation in their claims that the league is filled with predatory lesbians...and a lot of them.

Something else I have a problem with is the fact that she mentioned she felt isolated and was bullied because she is proud to be a woman and is feminine in a league where players want to look and act like men. It reeks of "don't hate me because I'm beautiful and popular." More generalization of a community on her part and a league that has critics talking about masculine and manly women playing in it.

While allegations of bullying are serious and should be taken seriously, there were better ways she could've gone about it and with better timing, preferably when she doesn't have a book coming out. It also makes it hard to believe when there is nothing in the way of proof being presented. I have been riding the fence on this since the story first broke out hoping that some type of investigation is done, and fixing any situation deemed toxic as she has mentioned while on the other side of the fence thinking this is a publicity stunt for her book and for attention.

As a member of the gay community myself, I can't say I found myself offended by her statements regarding the percentage even though it was an insane number and used mainly as an illustration of how isolated she felt. What I didn't appreciate was basically calling the players in the league men and saying it was on it's last leg, even after being on a bit of an upswing the last couple seasons. There are problems, sure. They don't make nearly enough, there's no argument there. The timing of it and the fact that she has yet to present any type of proof is what I have the hardest time with. Not saying nothing happened, but it's hard to take anyone's word for it just because they claim it happened.

"There's nothing masculine about being competitive. There's nothing masculine about trying to be the best at everything you do, nor is there anything wrong with it. I don't know why a female athlete has to defend her femininity just because she chooses to play sports."
- Rebecca Lobo

Great, well written post.

 

[j66kicker]

I don't expect exempt status for Wiggins, but it doesn't change the fact that Geno made some pretty disparaging and classless remarks about Wiggins. Not that a whole lot of class has been exhibited by Wiggins in this situation...but I don't think you'd ever see other top level coaches make remarks similar to the ones Geno made. Can you imagine the uproar on this board if Muffett or Kim Mulkey make comments like this about a Connecticut player?

Well he DID quote Tara from her own trashing of Candice. Although I guess Tara only criticized her math skills, and not her basketball skills.

 

[mdakota]

I don't expect exempt status for Wiggins, but it doesn't change the fact that Geno made some pretty disparaging and classless remarks about Wiggins. Not that a whole lot of class has been exhibited by Wiggins in this situation...but I don't think you'd ever see other top level coaches make remarks similar to the ones Geno made. Can you imagine the uproar on this board if Muffett or Kim Mulkey make comments like this about a Connecticut player?

He wasn't discussing a college player. He was discussing a WNBA retiree. You view his comments as disparaging and classless, I view them as brutally honest.

 

[mdakota]

Thanks for the thoughtful dialogue. And you never made me feel harassed. I didn't want you to worry about that as you were trying to go to sleep tonight.

FYI, I respect your opinion and enjoy reading your posts. Thank you

 

[Lobo50Fan]

Well he DID quote Tara from her own trashing of Candice. Although I guess Tara only criticized her math skills, and not her basketball skills.

I signed back on just so I could like this post! Tara's response surprised me a little bit. She's very frank and very honest, but she usually stays out of things like this. Does that count as a Tara-ism?

 

[easttexastrash]

Well he DID quote Tara from her own trashing of Candice. Although I guess Tara only criticized her math skills, and not her basketball skills.

Tara's comment was humorous. I wonder if she will call Candice to discuss this.

 

[Plebe]

Tara's comment was humorous. I wonder if she will call Candice to discuss this.

That was such a quintessential Tara one-liner, I cracked up. Btw Tara also said that Candice's comment sounded "negative and homophobic" to her.

 

[easttexastrash]

That was such a quintessential Tara one-liner, I cracked up. Btw Tara also said that Candice's comment sounded "negative and homophobic" to her.

And I agree with that. I think that casting that shadow over the entire league is tasteless. That does not mean that I write off her account that she was bullied as false, but I also don't like the women of the WNBA being trashed. I have great respect for these players and I know that they are professionals who only benefit from the success of the league. However, I have seen gay people harassed for being gay, so I can only assume that it could go both ways, and if it does, that it is a possibility that it can happen anywhere, even in the WNBA.

 

[Plebe]

Just odd to see a college coach making such comments about a WNBA matter. Now, if a WNBA coach comes out and comments I am more likely to listen. Can you imagine Coach K discussing NBA matters just because he has a connection to the NBA players through his national team experience and some of the NBA players being former players?

Well, Gary Kloppenburg, who coached Candice for 2 years in the league, has said that (paraphrasing) he has no idea what Candice is talking about. He was very tactful in his remarks, and even complimented Candice, but he also retweeted Kayte Christensen's less tactful takedown.

 

[easttexastrash]

Well, Gary Kloppenburg, who coached Candice for 2 years in the league, has said that (paraphrasing) he has no idea what Candice is talking about.

Right, and many people who know someone who commits a crime often say "I would never have thought he/she would do something like this." What we see as observers can often be very different from reality.

 

[easttexastrash]

Well, Gary Kloppenburg, who coached Candice for 2 years in the league, has said that (paraphrasing) he has no idea what Candice is talking about. He was very tactful in his remarks, and even complimented Candice, but he also retweeted Kayte Christensen's less tactful takedown.

I guess we all try to protect our paychecks.

 

[Plebe]

Right, and many people who know someone who commits a crime often say "I would never have thought he/she would do something like this." What we see as observers can often be very different from reality.

So when a coach speaks up you are more likely to listen, but it doesn't mean much when they do. Okay.

 

[easttexastrash]

So when a coach speaks up you are more likely to listen, but it doesn't mean much when they do. Okay.

I said that I thought it was a great message from him. BUT, just because he didn't see it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. I know well enough to know that things happen that others don't see. At no point did he say he didn't "buy it" as Geno said. He said he never saw it and most likely he didn't.

 

[j66kicker]

Tara's comment was humorous. I wonder if she will call Candice to discuss this.

That particular comment was humorous, but with a biting edge. And Tara had some other not-so-humorous things to say.

Would it be possible for ONE of us to buy Candice's book, then take turns quoting key passages (if any), with particulars and names named, on the Boneyard? That way she wouldn't benefit financially from us and we could still see if she has anything tangible to say on the whole mess.

 

[easttexastrash]

Last comment because this is futile. NOBODY other than Wiggins knows what she experienced while in the WNBA. I don't know if it happened or if this is fabricated. But what I do know is that if someone claims to have been a victim of something I don't pass judgement on it until it is proven to be true or false. If something happens to you and others say that they didn't it, does it make it any less real to you?