Geno doesn't see same women's game Candice Wiggins complains about

[easttexastrash]

And what if Candice continues to refuse to provide the details that would allow an investigation to move forward? What are we to think then?

And what do we do in the meantime with the homophobes and misogynists who are now flocking to this story, gleefully cheering on Candice for "confirming" what they always knew about the WNBA and the predatory lesbians?

Breanna Stewart called this in attack on the LGBT community, and I agree with her. I can support the call for a full and earnest investigation, even as I vigorously defend against Candice's homophobic attack. It is possible to hold both thoughts at once.

When you say "predatory lesbian" that means to me that they are being sexually aggressive. Maybe it means something else, but Wiggins did not, if I am not mistaken, claim that she was sexually harassed.

I am a member of the LGBT community and I don't feel attacked. I don't know what Stewart's sources are, but she forgot to call me and ask my opinion.

 

[trb123]

I'm not sure how Geno is qualified to comment on Wiggins' experience in the WNBA.

Auriemma does have more star players in the WNBA than any college coach. He currently puts more players in the league. He talks to those players. He debates with them on the state of the game, everything from uniforms to demanding travel to depressed pay for stars to allowing players six fouls in a 40-minute game to their personal experiences.

As the USA Basketball and Olympic coach the past eight years, he also has worked with at least 25 of them — a big chunk of WNBA Americans — in camps and international competition.

The article laid out why the newspaper (and many of us) think that Auriemma is qualified.
Can you please tell us why these reasons (assuming you read the article) do not resonate with you?

 

[easttexastrash]

It is possible to hold both thoughts at once.

I've always suspected that you had multiple personalities.

 

[mdakota]

This is all about her feelings. She wasn't as good as she thought she was when she entered the league. Now she's going to try to take everyone down to make herself feel better... I'm not buying it... and I'm not buying her book either... This has gotten way too much attention already...

 

[easttexastrash]

The article laid out why the newspaper (and many of us) think that Auriemma is qualified.
Can you please tell us why these reasons (assuming you read the article) do not resonate with you?

Because neither he, nor any of his former players are named Candice Wiggins. I don't mind Geno saying that he has not heard of this type of harassment in the past and certainly he is free to speak to what he has heard, or in this case not heard, but to attack Candice Wiggins as he did and to basically call her a liar is where he crossed into an area that he is not qualified to address.

And, yes, I read the article.

 

[Plebe]

When you say "predatory lesbian" that means to me that they are being sexually aggressive. Maybe it means something else, but Wiggins did not, if I am not mistaken, claim that she was sexually harassed.

I am a member of the LGBT community and I don't feel attacked. I don't know what Stewart's sources are, but she forgot to call me and ask my opinion.

A bully is also a form of a predator, as I understand the word. That's why the phrase "sexual predator" is not redundant.

So if one person says they see nothing wrong with it, I suppose the rest of us are just wrong to feel attacked. Okay. By that logic, there is nothing racist about the mascot "Redskins" as long as one Native American says it doesn't offend them.

 

[sarals24]

She didn't say that EVERY player harassed her, but said that it was pervasive. If this happened to her she has a right to tell her story, just like any other victim, whether it damages the league or not.

She can certainly tell her story without disparaging the entire league. Her bad experience on her team is clearly not the experience other straight players in the league are having. Again, I am NOT saying she's lying, or that her experience is anything other than what she says it was. But it doesn't seem fair to extend this experience to the league as a whole, while lumping 98% of the players into a category of people she says bullied her.

For the record, I have been sexually harassed at work, and it sucked. It is isolating, and difficult, and makes you dread waking up in the morning. So when I finally spoke up about my harasser, and it was dealt with, it was liberating and I had a whole new perspective on my workplace. What I didn't do was disparage the entire place for the actions of one person (or in Wiggin's case, a few, it seems.)

If she didn't speak up while it was happening, how could she make it a better place for others? Please don't misconstrue this as victim blaming - I know it is difficult to speak up when you are in the minority. But the timing of this, and the way her remarks seem designed to incite rather than educate make me less inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[easttexastrash]

A bully is also a form of a predator. That's why the phrase "sexual predator" is not redundant.

So if one person says they see nothing wrong with it, I suppose the rest of us are just wrong to feel attacked. Okay.

I was just trying to understand in what context you were using the phrase. To me, when the word predator is used it means indicates a sexual aggressiveness. They don't call the show "To Catch a Sex Predator," but we all know what the title of that show implies.

 

[Kibitzer]

Candice may have a valid case (about being bullied) but her credibility was seriously damaged when she relied on "alternative facts" (e.g., "98% are lesbians") when presenting it.

 

[Lobo50Fan]

I do agree it was a little unnecessary to say she wasn't a good basketball player. Her WNBA career wasn't as sparkly as her Stanford career, but she was a strong role player and injuries do have a tendency to take a toll and slow one down. She focused then on her defense and took pride in the fact that she could annoy those she was defending and that she was one of the most hated in the league for her defense, her own words. That alone is something that could rub many the wrong way, as some here have stated.

I do like that Geno wanted to know how she was bullied. I remember watching an interview Sue Wicks did about when Becky Hammon was in training camp trying to make the team and how everyone was fighting for their spot, knocking everyone down, beating them up, and doing all they could to earn that position. I'm not suggesting I know anything about what happened, no one but Candice does, but this type of physicality is normal in the WNBA. Being knocked to the ground is not uncommon.

It is understandable to be on both sides and to see both sides and most of the players and coaches that have spoken up have taken that position. While they themselves haven't seen, heard, or experienced the type of treatment Candice claims to have gone through, they aren't saying she's a liar or that she's wrong (most of them aren't anyway). What many have a problem with, aside from her lack of facts and proof other than her word, is her gross generalization of a community that makes up a large part of the league and the fanbase. It gives critics validation in their claims that the league is filled with predatory lesbians...and a lot of them.

Something else I have a problem with is the fact that she mentioned she felt isolated and was bullied because she is proud to be a woman and is feminine in a league where players want to look and act like men. It reeks of "don't hate me because I'm beautiful and popular." More generalization of a community on her part and a league that has critics talking about masculine and manly women playing in it.

While allegations of bullying are serious and should be taken seriously, there were better ways she could've gone about it and with better timing, preferably when she doesn't have a book coming out. It also makes it hard to believe when there is nothing in the way of proof being presented. I have been riding the fence on this since the story first broke out hoping that some type of investigation is done, and fixing any situation deemed toxic as she has mentioned while on the other side of the fence thinking this is a publicity stunt for her book and for attention.

As a member of the gay community myself, I can't say I found myself offended by her statements regarding the percentage even though it was an insane number and used mainly as an illustration of how isolated she felt. What I didn't appreciate was basically calling the players in the league men and saying it was on it's last leg, even after being on a bit of an upswing the last couple seasons. There are problems, sure. They don't make nearly enough, there's no argument there. The timing of it and the fact that she has yet to present any type of proof is what I have the hardest time with. Not saying nothing happened, but it's hard to take anyone's word for it just because they claim it happened.

"There's nothing masculine about being competitive. There's nothing masculine about trying to be the best at everything you do, nor is there anything wrong with it. I don't know why a female athlete has to defend her femininity just because she chooses to play sports."
- Rebecca Lobo

 

[easttexastrash]

She can certainly tell her story without disparaging the entire league. Her bad experience on her team is clearly not the experience other straight players in the league are having. Again, I am NOT saying she's lying, or that her experience is anything other than what she says it was. But it doesn't seem fair to extend this experience to the league as a whole, while lumping 98% of the players into a category of people she says bullied her.

For the record, I have been sexually harassed at work, and it sucked. It is isolating, and difficult, and makes you dread waking up in the morning. So when I finally spoke up about my harasser, and it was dealt with, it was liberating and I had a whole new perspective on my workplace. What I didn't do was disparage the entire place for the actions of one person (or in Wiggin's case, a few, it seems.)

If she didn't speak up while it was happening, how could she make it a better place for others? Please don't misconstrue this as victim blaming - I know it is difficult to speak up when you are in the minority. But the timing of this, and the way her remarks seem designed to incite rather than educate make me less inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Question. Were you sexually harassed by one person or did you feel harassed by a large majority of your co-workers? If you felt harassed by a large number of co-workers I suspect that your feelings toward your company may have been different.

I have been harassed for being gay. And if Wiggins had the same type of experience and felt that it was a systemic issue in the WNBA then she has a right to speak out.

When BG went public with her story about feeling that she could not be herself while at Baylor, there were multiple other former Baylor players who came out and said that they never felt that at Baylor. But, BG was given the benefit of the doubt and was believed by almost everyone who was not associated with Baylor. That didn't make her claim any less credible.

 

[Crossover]

Part of what bothers me about Geno's comments is that he made several references to Wiggins not being a good player, and the implication that she is saying these things because she is bitter that she was not good enough to be a successful WNBA player.

I respect Geno as a great coach and a great basketball mind, but I don't feel that this is a particular situation the he should be involving himself in.

I was also bothered by Geno's comments about Wiggins' limitations as a ball player, but the rest of his observations are fair game and on the money. You are not the only one who cares about how WNBA players are treated. I think that the searing passion that Geno displays in the interview flows from his desire to protect the players he has come to know and love through USA basketball.

 

[mdakota]

I was also bothered by Geno's comments about Wiggins' limitations as a ball player, but the rest of his observations are fair game and on the money. You are not the only one who cares about how WNBA players are treated. I think that the searing passion that Geno displays in the interview flows from his desire to protect the players he has come to know and love through USA basketball.

I'd say he's a pretty good judge of players...

 

[Plebe]

I was just trying to understand in what context you were using the phrase. To me, when the word predator is used it means indicates a sexual aggressiveness. They don't call the show "To Catch a Sex Predator," but we all know what the title of that show implies.

1. Titles of shows need to be shorter. 2. It would be highly uncommon for "sex" to be in the title of any network show.

 

[easttexastrash]

I'd say he's a pretty good judge of players...

I seem to remember a UCONN vs Stanford game where Wiggins was pretty good. Maybe Geno has blocked out the 25 point, 13 rebound, 5 assist game that Wiggins had in 2008.

 

[easttexastrash]

1. Titles of shows need to be shorter. 2. It would be highly uncommon for "sex" to be in the title of any network show.

My tongue was as far into me cheek as I could get it on that post. I guess my humor was too subtle to be detected.

 

[j66kicker]

I do agree with several of his points, 1) but there was no need to insult her as a basketball player. She didn't light the league on fire but was a very solid role player throughout her career and was a capable scorer. 2) She also was the star player for Stanford when she dropped 25 and led her squad to a huge upset over Connecticut in the Final Four back in 2008. Since then, Connecticut has only lost twice in the NCAA tournament.

I get being upset with her comments and disagreeing with them, or even calling her out for trying to start drama so she can generate publicity for her book, but I thought that was pretty uncalled for and obnoxious.

1) Geno has insulted the best of the best - you expect special exempt status for Candice Wiggins?

2) Remember, "vendetta" is an Italian word.

 

[mdakota]

I seem to remember a UCONN vs Stanford game where Wiggins was pretty good. Maybe Geno has blocked out the 25 point, 13 rebound, 5 assist game that Wiggins had in 2008.

He's just calling it as he see's it... I'm betting a lot of people have the same views, but he's the only one to say it (so far)... Most of what Candice has stated is contradictory and exaggerated.

 

[j66kicker]

I seem to remember a UCONN vs Stanford game where Wiggins was pretty good. Maybe Geno has blocked out the 25 point, 13 rebound, 5 assist game that Wiggins had in 2008.

I don't think so - haha

 

[easttexastrash]

He's just calling it as he see's it... I'm betting a lot of people have the same views, but he's the only one to say it (so far)... Most of what Candice has stated is contradictory and exaggerated.

Just odd to see a college coach making such comments about a WNBA matter. Now, if a WNBA coach comes out and comments I am more likely to listen. Can you imagine Coach K discussing NBA matters just because he has a connection to the NBA players through his national team experience and some of the NBA players being former players?

 

[mdakota]

Just odd to see a college coach making such comments about a WNBA matter. Now, if a WNBA coach comes out and comments I am more likely to listen.

He has an opinion, as do you, as do I, as does everyone else here commenting... you don't want to listen, don't listen. It's easy

 

[easttexastrash]

He has an opinion, as do you, as do I, as does everyone else here commenting... you don't want to listen, don't listen. It's easy

Really. I doubt that you want to hear my opinion and you are listening.

I added a smiley face so that everyone knows that was a joke.

 

[mdakota]

Really. I doubt that you want to hear my opinion and you are listening.

Actually I'm reading... not listening... I agree with Geno 100%. thank you

 

[easttexastrash]

Actually I'm reading... not listening... I agree with Geno 100%. thank you

You can read? I thought you had to have someone read it to you and type your replies for you.

 

[mdakota]

You can read? I thought you had to have someone read it to you and type your replies for you.

Yeah see... I'm not going to play this little game with you... I, in no way, have tried to put you down. Yet here you are, insinuating that I cannot read because I don't have the same views as you. You related to CW??

 

[Lobo50Fan]

Just odd to see a college coach making such comments about a WNBA matter. Now, if a WNBA coach comes out and comments I am more likely to listen. Can you imagine Coach K discussing NBA matters just because he has a connection to the NBA players through his national team experience and some of the NBA players being former players?

Gary Kloppenburg:
"I enjoyed coaching Candice Wiggins for two WNBA seasons and I was surprised by her negative comments about her time in the league. 1/3"
"I never witnessed any situation like Candice detailed. She was an extremely hard worker, a great competitor and a respected teammate. 2/3"
"The WNBA is an elite-level basketball league that prides itself on being inclusive and caring about the well-being of all its players. 3/3"

Jenny Boucek:
"Wasn't my experience. #WNBA" among other re-tweets...

 

[easttexastrash]

Yeah see... I'm not going to play this little game with you... I, in no way, have tried to put you down. Yet here you are, insinuating that I cannot read because I don't have the same views as you. You related to CW??

That was my way of trying to exit with a humorous comment, which I thought would be perceived as a joke. I guess what we have all learned tonight is that harassment is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[easttexastrash]

Gary Kloppenburg:
"I enjoyed coaching Candice Wiggins for two WNBA seasons and I was surprised by her negative comments about her time in the league. 1/3"
"I never witnessed any situation like Candice detailed. She was an extremely hard worker, a great competitor and a respected teammate. 2/3"
"The WNBA is an elite-level basketball league that prides itself on being inclusive and caring about the well-being of all its players. 3/3"

Jenny Boucek:
"Wasn't my experience. #WNBA" among other re-tweets...

Now THAT is is a well thought out comment by a coach, not one filled with insults toward the player in question. Kudos to Kloppenburg for being respectful to Wiggins yet also standing up for the WNBA.

 

[bballnut90]

1) Geno has insulted the best of the best - you expect special exempt status for Candice Wiggins?

2) Remember, "vendetta" is an Italian word.

I don't expect exempt status for Wiggins, but it doesn't change the fact that Geno made some pretty disparaging and classless remarks about Wiggins. Not that a whole lot of class has been exhibited by Wiggins in this situation...but I don't think you'd ever see other top level coaches make remarks similar to the ones Geno made. Can you imagine the uproar on this board if Muffett or Kim Mulkey make comments like this about a Connecticut player?

 

[mdakota]

That was my way of trying to exit with a humorous comment, which I thought would be perceived as a joke. I guess what we have all learned tonight is that harassment is in the eye of the beholder.

No worries, I knew it was a joke, but I wanted to make a point, and you hit the nail on the head with your last sentence.