Four years later...

[CTBballfan243]

We no longer are in a power conference, and we are not going to a power conference. The AAC is our reality and people have to come to terms with that fact. We need to make the best of our situation. Recruiting needs to change. We probably won’t attract blue chip teir 1 recruits anymore. That means we need to go after the 2nd level kids. The blue collar type players. I think most UConn fans will watch and support a the team as long as the kids hustle, work hard, and are scrappy. Times have changed, UConn and the fans must adapt.

 

[Zissou]

We no longer are in a power conference, and we are not going to a power conference. The AAC is our reality and people have to come to terms with that fact. We need to make the best of our situation. Recruiting needs to change. We probably won’t attract blue chip teir 1 recruits anymore. That means we need to go after the 2nd level kids. The blue collar type players. I think most UConn fans will watch and support a the team as long as the kids hustle, work hard, and are scrappy. Times have changed, UConn and the fans must adapt.

UConn is no longer in a power conference for football or basketball. The Big East is a power conference in basketball - a top 2 or 3 basketball conference. Big East schools seem to land top prospects with the benefit of all the games televised, high representation in the NCAA tournament, and the BE tournament at MSG. Nova gets more TV money for hoops than UConn gets for football plus hoops.

The BE is not an answer for your football aspirations, but wouldn't it be a better spot for hoops and your other olympic sports? That seems like an obvious yes. So the key question is "If we went BE, how do we best position our FBS football program?"

 

[HuskyHawk]

UConn is no longer in a power conference for football or basketball. The Big East is a power conference in basketball - a top 2 or 3 basketball conference. Big East schools seem to land top prospects with the benefit of all the games televised, high representation in the NCAA tournament, and the BE tournament at MSG. Nova gets more TV money for hoops than UConn gets for football plus hoops.

The BE is not an answer for your football aspirations, but wouldn't it be a better spot for hoops and your other olympic sports? That seems like an obvious yes. So the key question is "If we went BE, how do we best position our FBS football program?"

Nah. The current Big East is about #4-5 among basketball conferences, depending on who is up or down among the SEC and Pac. This year the SEC is up. The AAC with WSU is at least #7, if not higher. The trend is up for the American, as programs like Temple and Houston rebound, and UCF improves. The main difference now is that the awful teams at the bottom, USF and ECU, are worse in the AAC. But we lived with USF in the old Big East. The biggest problem the AAC has is that UConn isn't holding up its end of the bargain as the flagship hoops program. That an a complete lack of respect from the committee, voters and computers, which still live on perception over reality.

 

[Hi-Low]

A big issue for UConn and the AAC in general is simple geography..........with East Coast Schools, Florida Schools, Midwest Schools, Southern Schools, Texas Schools....and each School has maybe 1 other school in realistic driving distance, some have none. Hard to build any rivalries.....UConn's biggest rivals reside in BE or ACC, Cincy has Xavier, Temple has the Philly schools, etc.

I have no idea of the long-term prospects of the AAC, eventually with the next CR or upheaval some will get their ticket punched & some will be left in cold. I'm not sure I see the long-term viability of conference made up of such diverse regions.

Obviously our options are limited right now so UConn is where it is......

 

[Zissou]

Nah. The current Big East is about #4-5 among basketball conferences, depending on who is up or down among the SEC and Pac. This year the SEC is up. The AAC with WSU is at least #7, if not higher. The trend is up for the American, as programs like Temple and Houston rebound, and UCF improves. The main difference now is that the awful teams at the bottom, USF and ECU, are worse in the AAC. But we lived with USF in the old Big East. The biggest problem the AAC has is that UConn isn't holding up its end of the bargain as the flagship hoops program. That an a complete lack of respect from the committee, voters and computers, which still live on perception over reality.

Top 3 - ACC, Big East, B12
Next 3 - B1G, SEC, PAC
7 to 9 - A10, WCC, AAC

"The AAC with WSU is at least #7". Will we see "P7" patches on the basketball unis?

 

[geordi]

What makes any of you think that the Big East would ever want Connecticut. It's a catholic school league with universities that all have generally the same mission. The league is filled out in terms of numbers. If they wanted to add, they could add St. Bonaventure, Holy Cross, La Salle, St. Joseph's, or even Duquesne and still retain their identity. Why would they add more schools and dilute the money they do get. The conference is tapped out with the number of members. Why would they possibly want to recreate the 18 member old Big East fiasco? Scheduling alone was a mess among other things.

Our problem is not the conference, although recruiting does take a hit because of it. Connecticut basketball was at best middle of the road before Calhoun took over. It was his personality that drove the success and championships. That's true of all 'blue blood' programs. UCLA declined after Wooden, Indiana after Knight, and Kentucky after Rupp. Fortunately for them, Kentucky went back to Pitino and recovered for a while, then sucked again, then went to the Squid. North Carolina was great under Smith, sucked for a while, then recovered under Williams. Programs are forged by the great coaches.

Before the Big East breakup, everyone here was complaining that Puke, Kansas, and Kentucky were getting all the blue chippers...why couldn't we get them. Answer: Calhoun could take next level guys and beat Puke, Kansas, and Kentucky through the power of his personality. He didn't need the Mickey D AAs to win.

We get another Calhoun, we win championships again.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Top 3 - ACC, Big East, B12
Next 3 - B1G, SEC, PAC
7 to 9 - A10, WCC, AAC

"The AAC with WSU is at least #7". Will we see "P7" patches on the basketball unis?

Disagree.

Top 3 - ACC, B12, B1G and this year, SEC
Next 3 - Big East, Pac
7 - AAC with nobody else even close . The AAC is closer to the Big East and Pac than to #8.

Edit: it fluctuates year to year. Right now, SEC is top 3, but that is unusual. The AAC has the same projected number of teams in the tournament as the Pac, and ours have higher seeds. So right now the AAC is 6, Pac 7.

 

[ASweet3781]

The back and forths are so tiring. It's not the conference that's the problem...it is the conference...it's not the coaching that is the problem...it is the coaching.

I just want to Faye Dunaway in Chinatown and shout IT'S THE CONFERENCE AND THE COACHING!

 

[Zissou]

What makes any of you think that the Big East would ever want Connecticut. It's a catholic school league with universities that all have generally the same mission.

While most of the schools are Catholic, the self identity of the conference is "basketball first". UConn could fit that mission statement.

The league is filled out in terms of numbers. If they wanted to add, they could add St. Bonaventure, Holy Cross, La Salle, St. Joseph's, or even Duquesne and still retain their identity. Why would they add more schools and dilute the money they do get.

Those schools you mention will never be invited to the Big East. If we extend invitations for expansion it would be to elevate the top of the conference. UConn doesn't do that today, but it is historically a top program and has the potential to return to high status. Any addition would be with Fox, our TV contract partner. The initial contract was written with expansion plus-ups, so there would be no dilution.

The conference is tapped out with the number of members. Why would they possibly want to recreate the 18 member old Big East fiasco? Scheduling alone was a mess among other things.

I don't think there is any drive to recreate an 18 member Big East conference. Going from 10 members to 11, with a 20 game double round robin conference schedule is manageable.

Why is UConn desired by the Big East? By Fox? UConn has the historical success, rivalries, and New England to NYC footprint that are valued. Would UConn help or hurt the next TV contract? Most think it would help. Fox and the Big East would value UConn?

Is the Big East desperate for UConn? no. Is Fox? no. UConn is one of the very few programs that would add value to the Big East if it fit UConn's strategy.

 

[Zissou]

Disagree.

Top 3 - ACC, B12, B1G and this year, SEC
Next 3 - Big East, Pac
7 - AAC with nobody else even close . The AAC is closer to the Big East and Pac than to #8.

Edit: it fluctuates year to year. Right now, SEC is top 3, but that is unusual. The AAC has the same projected number of teams in the tournament as the Pac, and ours have higher seeds. So right now the AAC is 6, Pac 7.

I think the AAC has a solid argument for top 7 (and the BE for top 3).

P7 patches for AAC hoops?

 

[CL82]

Cronin is a good coach. If he leaves? I'm not sure Cincy in the AAC is that sexy of a job.

As keep in mind that AAC makes a lot more geographic sense if you are in Cinci rather than Storrs.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think the AAC has a solid argument for top 7 (and the BE for top 3).

P7 patches for AAC hoops?

That stuff changes moment to moment and is still heavily biased by preseason rankings at this point. Check in another month when he pulls that out. Also, the AAC has the Kenpom #51 team at the moment. In two days the AAC and BE may have the same number of top 50 teams. Plus you are looking at percentages. Don’t care about that. The SEC has 7 top 50, ACC 9. That beats the Big East 6 by my measurement. So does the B1G’s 7.

There is no “argument” about top 7 now that Wichita State is in the league. The A-10 has one top 50 team. Huge gap, much bigger than the gap between the AAC and PAC.

Look, I don’t like this league very much, but the Big East is being vastly overrated by many, and the American vastly underrated.

 

[kemba]

The BE is not an answer for your football aspirations, but wouldn't it be a better spot for hoops and your other olympic sports? That seems like an obvious yes. So the key question is "If we went BE, how do we best position our FBS football program?"

But the answer is there is no good answer to that question

 

[Zissou]

That stuff changes moment to moment and is still heavily biased by preseason rankings at this point. Check in another month when he pulls that out.

That's why I included bids from the last 3 seasons. I tried to show recent (last few years), now (KenPom), and top to bottom conference strength (% of members in each ranking, and also rank of the bottom program). For good measure, the AAC also has ECU very poorly ranked.

The P7 holds for the AAC.

If you want to use the last best data point, look at last season's bids. 2 tourney teams for the AAC.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's why I included bids from the last 3 seasons. I tried to show recent (last few years), now (KenPom), and top to bottom conference strength (% of members in each ranking, and also rank of the bottom program). For good measure, the AAC also has ECU very poorly ranked.

The P7 holds for the AAC.

If you want to use the last best data point, look at last season's bids. 2 tourney teams for the AAC.

3 if you count WSU. And the league was robbed, as usual.

 

[Zissou]

3 if you count WSU. And the league was robbed, as usual.

I'll accept it. That ties the AAC with the A10 for 7th.

P7

 

[UCFBfan]

Awwww, I love these types of threads for two reasons.

1. They show how pathetic of a fan base we are in that you are either a BBall UConn fan or a FB UConn fan and that's it. You know what? Cheer for the SCHOOL not just the sport. It's infuriating to watch these types of BS arguments occur all the time with UConn fans blaming one of OUR own programs for another's failure. Give it a rest.

2. I always love the "this conference is holding us down" or "we're UConn, we're better then the AAC" lines. You know what? Win something, and do it continuously, and then start running your mouth about feeling like we are better then the AAC. Until then, accept that it's not the conferences fault we blow in FB and our bball is declining.

I'm not saying I love the AAC but to continue to watch this fan base splinter and blame each other based on what sport you support is pathetic.

When the GOR runs out for many of these conferences,I wouldn't be shocked to see regional conferences reform and the top teams either break away or form a separate division because they are tired of feeding the Rutgers and Vandys of the P5.

All UConn can do is right the ship in all sports and put itself on a position to be wanted in the mid 2020s when the GORs end and all chaos breaks out.

 

[Zissou]

The concern for the UConn basketball program, I think, is the question whether excellence is a UConn thing, or a Jim C. thing.

Top programs sustain excellence over a long period of time over multiple coaches.

UConn not only has the coaching change to navigate, but also the challenge of the weaker and less desirable conference.

Is UConn basketball a powerhouse program? Or was it all JC?

I think of Ray Meyer. He had DePaul at an elite level when he retired. Ray was DePaul basketball. He handed the team over to Joey and Joey had early success, but then the program dropped off, They went through some conference changes with Joey as well.

Tark at UNLV is another example of one coach excellence.

Or can KO be the next step to sustained success like UNC, Kentucky, Nova, and Kansas?

What will Duke be after coach K?

 

[Fishy]

What will Nova be after Jay Wright?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

What will Nova be after Jay Wright?

Even Steve Lappas got Villanova into the top 10. That program will be fine.

 

[itgoeslike]

"Or can KO be the next step to sustained success like UNC, Kentucky, Nova, and Kansas?

What the hell is Nova doing on that list? They've won two championships with two coaches with over 30 years between the two wins.
Let's see if Nova can match what UConn has accomplished over the last 20 years before we start grouping them with UNC, Kentucky and Kansas.

 

[Zissou]

What will Nova be after Jay Wright?

Al Severance (1936–1961) 413–201 (.673) 1 FF, 1 EE

Jack Kraft (1961–1973) 238–95 (.715) 1 FF (finals), 2 EE

Rollie Massimino (1973–1992) 357–241 (.596) 1 NCAA Champ, 4 EE

Steve Lappas (1992–2001) 174–110 (.613)

Jay Wright (2001–present) 395-161 (.710)

 

[Fishy]

Al Severance (1936–1961) 413–201 (.673) 1 FF, 1 EE

Jack Kraft (1961–1973) 238–95 (.715) 1 FF (finals), 2 EE

Rollie Massimino (1973–1992) 357–241 (.596) 1 NCAA Champ, 4 EE

Steve Lappas (1992–2001) 174–110 (.613)

Jay Wright (2001–present) 395-161 (.710)

Come on.

That’s a regional program - keep them out of the conversation with Duke, Kansas, etc.

 

[Zissou]

What the hell is Nova doing on that list? They've won two championships with two coaches with over 30 years between the two wins.
Let's see if Nova can match what UConn has accomplished over the last 20 years before we start grouping them with UNC, Kentucky and Kansas.

KO deserves credit for his title no doubt, but he obviously did it with JC's talent. Can he make a deep run with his own players? I think so, and I hope so.

JC built a powerhouse. Before JC, no UConn Final Fours and 1 Elite Eight. JC put UConn on the map. So the question stands - can UConn sustain the excellence over multiple coaches?

 

[Zissou]

Come on.

That’s a regional program - keep them out of the conversation with Duke, Kansas, etc.

I didn't put them in the conversation with Duke.

Duke and UConn are similar in that neither had a title before K & JC, and they both built dominant programs with multiple championships.

 

[Waquoit]

Duke and UConn are similar in that neither had a title before K & JC, and they both built dominant programs with multiple championships.

Duke made it to the Final game just a couple of years before K took over.

 

[Zissou]

Duke made it to the Final game just a couple of years before K took over.

Also a true statement. That was a great team.

 

[Zissou]

Duke made it to the Final game just a couple of years before K took over.

I was fortunate enough to see that team play live - Gminski, Spanarkel, Banks, Dennard. A great team.

 

[itgoeslike]

KO deserves credit for his title no doubt, but he obviously did it with JC's talent. Can he make a deep run with his own players? I think so, and I hope so.

JC built a powerhouse. Before JC, no UConn Final Fours and 1 Elite Eight. JC put UConn on the map. So the question stands - can UConn sustain the excellence over multiple coaches?

Firstly, you're side-stepping my comment. When it comes to sustained success of a program, Villanova is not in the same league as North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas. Perhaps some day it could happen should they capture more NC's, and continue to do so after Wright departs.

Secondly, a National Championship is a National Championship and KO earned his. He had to contend with the adversity of a BS post season ban, overcome a number of transfers associated with the ban and/or JC's retirement, and then coach the team to victory night after night with a roster that wasn't exactly loaded with 5-star recruits. If coaching a talent-heavy team to a National Championship is as easy as you suggest, Kansas would have a lot more national championships.

Thirdly, you narrowly define "sustained success" as, specifically, winning national championships with more than one coach between 1980 an 2017. However, if the second coach wins a national championship within 3 years of the preceding coach that program is disqualified. This conveniently negates Duke, UConn and others from your definition but enables Villanova to gain entrance to this elite club with their 2016 NC (even though their previous championship occurred 30 years prior). Applying your definition, the UConn Womens' team has not achieved sustained success. Perhaps some day they will (provided Auriemma's successor doesn't win a national championship too soon after his departure). I guess I'm just not buying your definition of "sustained success".

Lastly, we can debate whether KO will lead the team to a future NC or FF. But, it shouldn't dilute or have any bearing on the remarkable success UConn has achieved over the last 30 years.

 

[Zissou]

Firstly, you're side-stepping my comment. When it comes to sustained success of a program, Villanova is not in the same league as North Carolina, Kentucky and Kansas. Perhaps some day it could happen should they capture more NC's, and continue to do so after Wright departs.

Secondly, a National Championship is a National Championship and KO earned his. He had to contend with the adversity of a BS post season ban, overcome a number of transfers associated with the ban and/or JC's retirement, and then coach the team to victory night after night with a roster that wasn't exactly loaded with 5-star recruits. If coaching a talent-heavy team to a National Championship is as easy as you suggest, Kansas would have a lot more national championships.

Thirdly, you narrowly define "sustained success" as, specifically, winning national championships with more than one coach between 1980 an 2017. However, if the second coach wins a national championship within 3 years of the preceding coach that program is disqualified. This conveniently negates Duke, UConn and others from your definition but enables Villanova to gain entrance to this elite club with their 2016 NC (even though their previous championship occurred 30 years prior). Applying your definition, the UConn Womens' team has not achieved sustained success. Perhaps some day they will (provided Auriemma's successor doesn't win a national championship too soon after his departure). I guess I'm just not buying your definition of "sustained success".

Lastly, we can debate whether KO will lead the team to a future NC or FF. But, it shouldn't dilute or have any bearing on the remarkable success UConn has achieved over the last 30 years.

I said KO earned his. He did do it with JC's recruits. I'm not dissing KO at all. Winning it all is a huge task.

I've also said to discount last year. Injuries were too much to overcome.