OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[billybud]

So ESPN would pay FSU more for switching to the SEC? If it’s purely on FSU value, why not pay them less and keep them in the ACC?

If you are thinking Big 10, Oregon and Washington are taking 1/2 shares and FSU will get a full share?

If FSU’s coach leaves for another job, does he really have to pay the $6M in his contract buyout? Or since that would restrict his free movement and right to maximize his value, his contract buyout is invalid? (As Norm MacDonald would say, it’s the hypocrisy)

Jimbo Fisher left FSU...just pay a negotiated buyout and scoot...FSU will pay an Exit Fee...and leave...but coaches are not locked in permanently for a term and their future earnings owned by the school...

Jeez...

 

[billybud]

Some of these guys are as bad as the Twitter guys..

"Mom, can you bring me some meatloaf ?"

 

[ScottVib]

Like everyone else here, I have no clue how the powers that be are truly thinking, but to me the question is what is the difference in viewers for Florida State - Ole Miss vs. say a Tennessee - Ole Miss match-up that would otherwise be available in the same time-slot? Then how does Florida State - Virginia compare to that? If you can get the same rating at the cheaper cost of ACC content or with existing SEC inventory... or if the margin between the two scenarios isn't large enough, you start to have an argument that it's not worth making an extra effort to induce a conference to add them as the net cost may exceed the value of any increased viewership.

The other piece of the puzzle is what's more attractive inventory for the playoff that ESPN has invested so much money in? Is it 12-1 ACC Champion Florida State or 8-4 SEC at large Florida State? In that 8-4 SEC at large scenario, they also then get stuck with a lessor ACC champion, say a 10-2 NC State. To justify the money they've put out there for the playoff, you need to draw not just the hard core fans, but a lot of casual interest and a name program with a gaudy record may be a better draw than the name program with a solid record (even if it's arguably reflective of a stronger season given strength of schedule differences, the causal fan doesn't typically make that distinction).

I do think Florida State is an option for both the SEC and the Big Ten.. I don't think Clemson nearly as attractive to either conference and has to rely on being considered "elite", if they continue to have good, but not great seasons (think back to the pre-Dabo days) they suddenly find themselves in the group of schools that could well be left behind in the ACC. I think this is why they filed their lawsuit now, rather than letting FSU pave the way, hoping to catch the first train out of town before there are more passengers on the platform

 

[billybud]

This isn't about an SEC vs Big Ten. Nor is it ESPN vs FOX and NBC.

Maybe it is about network partnerships divving up a multi billion dollar P2.

Some horse trading agreements for CFP sublicenses.

It is less competition and more partnering in the future.

Everybody will make more money....programs in the P2 bubble and the networks.

 

[billybud]

Once upon a time, conferences controlled realignment.

I am not sure that is true in the present...my thought has been that the networks plan and control conference realignment.

Was the blowing up of the PAC 12 just an unfortunate accident, or was it a media plan to move assets to the B!G on the way to a P2 ?

 

[Kolumbo]

Crazy, I know, but I'm just spitballin'. It would be great if UNC and UVA decided to keep the ACC together. And it would require coordination and loyalty by the other members.

Regarding P2: Culturally I think they fit better in the SEC, being more "southern" schools. There is also more growth in the south and better weather. Academically, maybe the B1G because of the AAU thing and all. But it's the rust belt. The SEC doesn't sponsor Men's Soccer or Lax and while those sports mean nothing in realignment, those are sports that UNC and UVA are very passionate about. And basketball. So the only perfect conference for them is the ACC. They keep all their sports in one conference and they keep their rivalries with Duke.

UNC and UVA would get buried in P2 football so although the money may be a lot better, it may not be good for their programs. Hard to tell because playing those P2 programs might be good for recruiting. Basketball rivalries would be destroyed. Let FSU leave. Reorganize and get a new contract. I don't know how, just do it. They can accept being on the level with the Big 12 in Football, being the best basketball conference once they invite UConn, and continue to play primarily on the Atlantic Coast.

I know it's not likely. Texas and Oklahoma broke the P5 and I'm sure UNC and UVA would follow, but it would be great to see them stay home.

 

[billybud]

x.com

x.com

 

[uconnyankee]

He has UConn in the ACC. If you can call it the ACC........

https://mikefarrellsports.com/college/how-college-football-realignment-should-have-looked

Meh, has Louisville and Cincy in Big10

 

[Zissou]

Once upon a time, conferences controlled realignment.

I am not sure that is true in the present...my thought has been that the networks plan and control conference realignment.

if that’s true ESPN isn’t motivated to move FSU and Clemson to the SEC.

It would be surprising for the Big 10 to offer a full payout share.

The endgame for Clemson and FSU is cloudy.

 

[Zissou]

Jimbo Fisher left FSU...just pay a negotiated buyout and scoot...FSU will pay an Exit Fee...and leave...but coaches are not locked in permanently for a term and their future earnings owned by the school...

Jeez...

I think Texas and OK paid $50M each to scoot to resolve 1 year of GOR remaining.

FSU is in the process of negotiating its exit term. 12 years GOR remaining. They are not just negotiating in the normal sense, they are leveraging a legal challenge. That’s ok, we’ll see. They have a legal agreement on the exit fee that will be tested.

Hypocritically, they also tie up their coaches with exit fees in legal agreements.

In either case the term is never permanent. A permanent term is harder to legally enforce. A set term, of 4 years or 12 years for example, is easier to legally protect.

FSU is not locked in permanently - only for the term that they agreed to contractually.

 

[Kolumbo]

Look, any whiff of smoke is a good thing. UConn and USF would work for me

https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-football/2-teams-perfect-fits-acc-expansion-conference-realignment-takes-new-strides-2024

 

[Zissou]

Look, any whiff of smoke is a good thing. UConn and USF would work for me

https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-football/2-teams-perfect-fits-acc-expansion-conference-realignment-takes-new-strides-2024

Under the SMU payout terms?

 

[billybud]

I think Texas and OK paid $50M each to scoot to resolve 1 year of GOR remaining.

FSU is in the process of negotiating its exit term. 12 years GOR remaining. They are not just negotiating in the normal sense, they are leveraging a legal challenge. That’s ok, we’ll see. They have a legal agreement on the exit fee that will be tested.

Hypocritically, they also tie up their coaches with exit fees in legal agreements.

In either case the term is never permanent. A permanent term is harder to legally enforce. A set term, of 4 years or 12 years for example, is easier to legally protect.

FSU is not locked in permanently - only for the term that they agreed to contractually.

Actually...it has come out in court that...

==The GOR only attaches to a program's content while they are a Member of the conference.

==The GOR is specifically tied to the ESPN Agreement..it has no meaning outside of what is necessary to perform to the requirements of the ESPN Agreement.

==The ESPN Agreement expires in 2027...unless ESPN extended..

== ESPN failed to extend this agreement by the required 2021 date. And still have not.

== Clemson and ESPN lawyers discovered this when finally demanding access to the ESPN Agreement.


...2027 is the latest that FSU and Clemson and ESPN are obligated...Clemson/FSU have both filed for a declaratory judgement from the court.


Ramifications:

...I think that Clemson and FSU are leaving the ACC...and the liability is only through the next two seasons.

...FSU has expected to pay some exit fee and made provisions

---If it goes to discovery, there may be enough ACC wrong doing uncovered to justify Clemson's claim for damages (and I'd expect FSU to file the same)....It has now come out that the ACC actually mischaracterized the GOR to the press and to conference members for a period of years...The ACC would not allow the ESPN Agreement to be reviewed so that it would not be discovered.

---Neither ESPN, the ACC, Swofford, Skipper, or Raycom want discovery...

Gawd...but it will be slow...maybe I can attach a new term to all of the appeals and delays.."tortoise interference"...

 

[noeynox]

I mean its sportskeeda. The BY is better a source.

 

[jostar1]

Actually...it has come out in court that...

==The GOR only attaches to a program's content while they are a Member of the conference.

I believe that was Clemson's argument. Did the court agree with that interpretation?

 

[billybud]

I believe that was Clemson's argument. Did the court agree with that interpretation?

Clemson and FSU have asked for a court ruling on the issue...both suits have been delayed by appeals regarding jurisdiction rulings....

As to the media rights, that is a matter of differing interpretations of this contractual language. Clemson points out that it granted the ACC only those media rights "necessary for the Conference to perform the contractual obligations of the Conference expressly set forth" in separate agreements between the ACC and ESPN. Those obligations apply only to members, Clemson alleges, not to former members. I think we'd need to see the language of those other agreements to know whether this is a plausible construction of Clemson's obligations. Alas, the parts of the complaint relating to ESPN have been redacted, apparently into response to ESPN's hissy fit when the details of the ACC's arrangement with ESPN were disclosed in a similar case involving Florida State University...

 

[KryHavok]

Look, any whiff of smoke is a good thing. UConn and USF would work for me

https://www.sportskeeda.com/college-football/2-teams-perfect-fits-acc-expansion-conference-realignment-takes-new-strides-2024

The writer called our program "middling"...okay, that's not terrible. Right now I'd eat Olive Garden just to have an average "middling" football program, and I hate Olive Garden with their insulting take on Italian food! ^_^

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Bud, didn't the Florida court already state that they cannot give a ruling on differing interpretations before the fact.

Basically stating that a school would need to depart, then while in disagreement with the conference on an I interpretation, a lawsuit could lead to the court deciding the interpretation. Shy of that happening, they cannot make an interpretation.

 

[billybud]

Bud, didn't the Florida court already state that they cannot give a ruling on differing interpretations before the fact.

Basically stating that a school would need to depart, then while in disagreement with the conference on an I interpretation, a lawsuit could lead to the court deciding the interpretation. Shy of that happening, they cannot make an interpretation.

The Florida court has only ruled dismissing the ACC motion to dismiss...and dismissing the ACC motion to stay discovery...

The meaning of the combined ACC/ESPN agreements were not ruled upon nor actually heard....The ACC lawyers have maintained such a ruling was not "ripe" since neither team had yet left...FSU responded that the ACC had already proclaimed that FSU had breached and had sued.

 

[billybud]

According to Clemson's filing....

4. Clemson granted certain media rights to the ACC in an agreement executed in 2013 and amended in 2016. That agreement provides, however, that Clemson granted the Conference only such media rights as were "necessary for the Conference to perform the contractual obligations of the Conference expressly set forth in [certain, specifically identified media agreements between the Conference and ESPN}." (Emphasis added).

The ACC has repeatedly ignored this qualification in determining the scope of the grant of rights and the rights consequently retained by Clemson.



The filing goes on to say that not only do the ACC Bylaws outline a Member leaving by giving notice and paying an Exit Fee but the ESPN Agreement also contemplated that possibility.

The ESPN Agreement contains a composition clause that allows ESPN to renegotiate the contract if two Members leave.

 

[Pat125]

I believe that was Clemson's argument. Did the court agree with that interpretation?

Nothing yet. And if one court agrees, there will be appeals, etc.

Apparently, for some reason, Florida St. and Clemson agreed to ambiguous language that would require tens of millions of dollars to prove that the language is what they now believe it means. Same regarding the 2027 escape clause.

Apparently, lawyers from 14 other schools side with the ACC’s interpretations and are okay with the ACC bowing down to ESPN (yes lots of unwise decisions from all sides). As a bonus, Clemson and Florida St. are also paying ACC’s lawyers. Amazing stuff.

 

[noeynox]

Nothing yet. And if one court agrees, there will be appeals, etc.

Apparently, for some reason, Florida St. and Clemson agreed to ambiguous language that would require tens of millions of dollars to prove that the language is what they now believe it means. Same regarding the 2027 escape clause.

Apparently, lawyers from 14 other schools side with the ACC’s interpretations and are okay with the ACC bowing down to ESPN (yes lots of unwise decisions from all sides). As a bonus, Clemson and Florida St. are also paying ACC’s lawyers. Amazing stuff.

 

[billybud]

Schools that don’t have a secured home , obviously will back the ACC. UNC has been sending mixed signals Probably due to North Carolina politics.

 

[hoopsfan22]

All of the schools have a secured home. It's called the ACC. I don't know where the schools that want out think they are going to go. Through all of the madness in recent years the SEC has shown zero interest in taking on more mouths to feed, and the B1G is still trying to absorb the 37 teams they took on after the Pac12 imploded.

 

[billybud]

Do not underestimate the business aspect of sports....would the Media/ Big Ten turn down a major brands..maybe at the expense of someday dropping Northwestern ?