OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[billybud]

Sure sounded like you were downplaying athletic performance...

 

[freescooter]

No

Northwestern was a founding member. Not going anywhere unless they choose to go.

 

[billybud]

 

[Ldandy]

FSU and Clemson are getting out of The ACC come Hell or high water. Why not save millions of dollars in legal fees for all parties, by getting right to negotiating the buyout for both schools? Maybe The ACC can negotiate 200 million+ from each school? 400 million dollars divided among the legacy members is a hefty chunk of change.

Lots of people believe that letting FSU/Clemson out of The ACC will open the flood gates for other defections. Honestly, I'm not so sure. First and foremost, ESPN can keep the conference financially whole by continuing its current deal with new members. People can claim that a bunch of ACC Schools will head to The Big 12, B1G, SEC etc, but the media rights holders, including ESPN, will determine that. They have to pay for any of these additions and keep the current membership whole. How much is VPI, GT, NCSU and so on actually worth?

 

[billybud]

Maybe..this is all about forcing a negotiation of costs to leave.

At first...the ACC position was that the teams were locked, iron clad, until 2036. Why negotiate anything.

That position may be loosening quite a bit with revelations coming out as a result of FSU/Clemson digging into it.

 

[uconndogs]

How much is VPI, GT, NCSU and so on actually worth?

I would take it even one step further. What are any of these "properties" worth given the uncertainty aound player compensation? That expense line moving into the future is an unknown. You are dealing with emotional supporters (boosters, etc.) who will fund or not based on their whim. I think for many (probably the majority) of BCS programs this model is unstastainable. I think the same is going to be true for hoops as well. The media companies will value programs based on their forecasted viewership, but how do those programs sustain themselves when they don't know what their labor costs will be in order to be competitive?

Is it all presently a house of cards......?

 

[huskymedic]

Leon County judge could order ACC to give Florida State confidential ESPN agreements

The ACC could soon be ordered to give Florida State's legal teams a copy of the highly confidential ESPN agreements.

www.tallahassee.com

-> In proposed language that both sides agreed upon, the court order was drafted and submitted July 2 at 3 p.m. to Leon Circuit Judge John C. Cooper. If Cooper signs the court order, the ACC must hand over an unredacted version of the sought-after ESPN agreement to FSU within seven days of the order. <-

-> The ESPN agreements contain six documents:

• The initial 2010 multi-media agreement with ESPN
• The 2012 amendment and extension agreement
• Second amendment and extension agreement in 2014
• Amended and restated multi-media agreement in 2016
• ACC-ESPN Network agreement also from 2016
• Letter amendment to amend and restated multi-media agreement from 2021<-

-> The proposed interim protective order submitted by both the conference and FSU would allow the school's legal team to review the documents and create copies for use in the school's court battle. The order states that the documents remain confidential and only be seen by those involved with the case or authorized consultation.

Once the litigation between the school and the conference ends, FSU will return the documents to the ACC and destroy any copies of it within 60 days in accordance with the order. <-

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Leon County judge could order ACC to give Florida State confidential ESPN agreements

The ACC could soon be ordered to give Florida State's legal teams a copy of the highly confidential ESPN agreements.

www.tallahassee.com

-> In proposed language that both sides agreed upon, the court order was drafted and submitted July 2 at 3 p.m. to Leon Circuit Judge John C. Cooper. If Cooper signs the court order, the ACC must hand over an unredacted version of the sought-after ESPN agreement to FSU within seven days of the order. <-

-> The ESPN agreements contain six documents:

• The initial 2010 multi-media agreement with ESPN
• The 2012 amendment and extension agreement
• Second amendment and extension agreement in 2014
• Amended and restated multi-media agreement in 2016
• ACC-ESPN Network agreement also from 2016
• Letter amendment to amend and restated multi-media agreement from 2021<-

-> The proposed interim protective order submitted by both the conference and FSU would allow the school's legal team to review the documents and create copies for use in the school's court battle. The order states that the documents remain confidential and only be seen by those involved with the case or authorized consultation.

Once the litigation between the school and the conference ends, FSU will return the documents to the ACC and destroy any copies of it within 60 days in accordance with the order. <-

Remember when a bunch of posters on this site blamed the 2003 lawsuit against the BCS for everything bad that has ever happened to UConn athletics, ever? I do. Florida State is literally pissing off everyone in college sports with this lawsuit, and it is not going to hurt them at all.

 

[Ha Who]

Remember when a bunch of posters on this site blamed the 2003 lawsuit against the BCS for everything bad that has ever happened to UConn athletics, ever? I do. Florida State is literally pissing off everyone in college sports with this lawsuit, and it is not going to hurt them at all.

Are they suing the conference they’re trying to get into or the conference they’re leaving?

 

[Pat125]

Are they suing the conference they’re trying to get into or the conference they’re leaving?

Sure, they are p&ssing off the ACC, but they are also p&ssing off ESPN, who is paying the SEC. Also, keep in mind that the SEC, Big Ten, and the Big 12, have joined the ACC over keeping the bs trade secrets in the media agreements in tact. So Fox may not be thrilled with Florida St. as well. On the other hand, most of this is theatre. Further, I can’t imagine that Florida St. and Clemson didn’t get some winks from the SEC (and ESPN), and would not be surprised if there is a settlement within 37 days.

 

[uconndogs]

Given the behavior of FSU and even Clemson you would think they have some type of backroom agreement with the SEC. That said, I doubt the Gators or Gamecocks are all that thrilled with those additions.

Speaking of backroom deals, I think the BiG and SEC have given a wink and a nod to stay largely north and south.

 

[freescooter]

Sure, they are p&ssing off the ACC, but they are also p&ssing off ESPN, who is paying the SEC. Also, keep in mind that the SEC, Big Ten, and the Big 12, have joined the ACC over keeping the bs trade secrets in the media agreements in tact. So Fox may not be thrilled with Florida St. as well. On the other hand, most of this is theatre. Further, I can’t imagine that Florida St. and Clemson didn’t get some winks from the SEC (and ESPN), and would not be surprised if there is a settlement within 37 days.

I suspect that there will be a settlement. The ACC’s interest is to make it high enough that others will think twice before leaving. I’m among those who doubt that a settlement opens the floodgates for the league. I keep asking what other ACC school is worth $60 million? Or what ACC school are the Big 10 or SEC members willing to reduce their shares to add? And I keep coming up with none.

Sometimes, too, value is tied to who you play. Is UNC worth as much without its rivalry with Duke? Is Michigan without Ohio State? Texas without Oklahoma? Though they don’t want to admit it, many teams lose their identity when they change leagues at least partly for that reason. It was funny watching the ACC try to make BC-Clemson something based on them having played each other in a bowl game in the 40s. It was basically ConFLiCT 2.0. I doubt either school can find the trophy they ginned up. I doubt Carolina is worth $60 million. I seriously doubt it without Duke as its foil.

 

[UConnJim]

I suspect that there will be a settlement. The ACC’s interest is to make it high enough that others will think twice before leaving. I’m among those who doubt that a settlement opens the floodgates for the league. I keep asking what other ACC school is worth $60 million? Or what ACC school are the Big 10 or SEC members willing to reduce their shares to add? And I keep coming up with none.

Sometimes, too, value is tied to who you play. Is UNC worth as much without its rivalry with Duke? Is Michigan without Ohio State? Texas without Oklahoma? Though they don’t want to admit it, many teams lose their identity when they change leagues at least partly for that reason. It was funny watching the ACC try to make BC-Clemson something based on them having played each other in a bowl game in the 40s. It was basically ConFLiCT 2.0. I doubt either school can find the trophy they ginned up. I doubt Carolina is worth $60 million. I seriously doubt it without Duke as its foil.

If you look at UNC from the old way of valuing schools by state cable subscribers, they are worth $60 million plus to a conference. For example, the in market rate for the BTN is about $1.50 vs. the out of market rate of $0.10 so the value of a cable sub in UNC goes up by $1.40. If there are 3.5 million cable subs in NC, that is worth ~$60 million just for the potential BTN subscribers. Add in the content they provide and they are worth more than $60 million for their media rights. Of course, there is cord cutting, but going forward, schools will be valued by how many subscribers they can bring to a conference network and UNC would bring subscribers.

 

[billybud]

If there is movement...it will be the networks that decide it...not the teams or maybe even the conferences.

ESPN almost needed FSU/Clemson to go to court.

ESPN, having a contract relationship with both the SEC and ACC, needs to be seen not as the "prime mover" of a breakup of the current ACC.

I suspect that ESPN does not intend to extend the current ACC contract through 2036...and that is why they missed the 2021 required date to renew (as now found in the ESPN Agreement). The cat is now out of the bag.

....In February of 2021, on Jim Phillips 1st day in office, it was supposed to be the day ESPN renewed the ACC contract through 2036. It ends in 2027.

....No company waits until the day-of to just come in and sign.

....With discovery soon underway in Judge Cooper's court, will there be a found bomb exposing the fact that ESPN had officially told Swofford and the conference office they were not picking it up as it currently exists back in 2021 prior to Phillips taking over and nothing has been related to conference Members ? Certainly Cal, Stanford, SMU would have had an interest in that. And any school desiring to shop another conference.

....Clemson is suing for damages they believe was caused by such.

It will provide summer entertainment on X.

 

[Kolumbo]

I suspect that there will be a settlement. The ACC’s interest is to make it high enough that others will think twice before leaving. I’m among those who doubt that a settlement opens the floodgates for the league. I keep asking what other ACC school is worth $60 million? Or what ACC school are the Big 10 or SEC members willing to reduce their shares to add? And I keep coming up with none.

Sometimes, too, value is tied to who you play. Is UNC worth as much without its rivalry with Duke? Is Michigan without Ohio State? Texas without Oklahoma? Though they don’t want to admit it, many teams lose their identity when they change leagues at least partly for that reason. It was funny watching the ACC try to make BC-Clemson something based on them having played each other in a bowl game in the 40s. It was basically ConFLiCT 2.0. I doubt either school can find the trophy they ginned up. I doubt Carolina is worth $60 million. I seriously doubt it without Duke as its foil.

That's really the biggest fallacy of realignment, looking at programs in a vacuum. Pitt-WVU. Oklahoma-Okie State. UConn-cuse. There are synergies and rivalries among programs. Separate Pitt and WVU and neither program is as valuable.

 

[billybud]

That's really the biggest fallacy of realignment, looking at programs in a vacuum. Pitt-WVU. Oklahoma-Okie State. UConn-cuse. There are synergies and rivalries among programs. Separate Pitt and WVU and neither program is as valuable.

I have pointed out that it may not have been a coincidence that USC-UCLA...Oregon-Washington...Texas-Oklahoma were picked up...

Would it make sense to split up the UNC-Duke basketball rivalry?

And that was FSU's dilemma in the ACC...Other than Miami, no real rival. Yeah, some would throw out Clemson, but that is too recent in history to make a heated rivalry...now, Clemson-South Carolina, FSU-Florida...they have history.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[huskymedic]

 

[huskymedic]

Leon County judge could order ACC to give Florida State confidential ESPN agreements

The ACC could soon be ordered to give Florida State's legal teams a copy of the highly confidential ESPN agreements.

www.tallahassee.com

-> In proposed language that both sides agreed upon, the court order was drafted and submitted July 2 at 3 p.m. to Leon Circuit Judge John C. Cooper. If Cooper signs the court order, the ACC must hand over an unredacted version of the sought-after ESPN agreement to FSU within seven days of the order. <-

-> The ESPN agreements contain six documents:

• The initial 2010 multi-media agreement with ESPN
• The 2012 amendment and extension agreement
• Second amendment and extension agreement in 2014
• Amended and restated multi-media agreement in 2016
• ACC-ESPN Network agreement also from 2016
• Letter amendment to amend and restated multi-media agreement from 2021<-

-> The proposed interim protective order submitted by both the conference and FSU would allow the school's legal team to review the documents and create copies for use in the school's court battle. The order states that the documents remain confidential and only be seen by those involved with the case or authorized consultation.

Once the litigation between the school and the conference ends, FSU will return the documents to the ACC and destroy any copies of it within 60 days in accordance with the order. <-

Billable hours…

 

[billybud]

Yeah...of course the North Carolina judge wants to rule and protect North Carolina...But Judge Cooper in Florida does not agree....and you know what? I'll bet the judge in South Carolina does not either.

 

[noeynox]

Love it. Screw FSU! Shouldn't have signed it.

 

[Excalibur]

At the end of the day, the ACC as the party enforcing contractual rights, is the natural plaintiff. If the system functions correctly, the NC suit is the only one that matters.

 

[Zissou]

For those following this more closely…. Is the high end of the negotiation for exit $120M exit plus $30M x 12 years of GOR? So $480M?

At what number does Clemson and FSU accept a settlement and leave the conference? $300M?

 

[billybud]

At the end of the day, the ACC as the party enforcing contractual rights, is the natural plaintiff. If the system functions correctly, the NC suit is the only one that matters.

Maybe...in the end it is the ACC that has been purposefully mischaracterizing the contract, the so called "locked in until 2036"...that will be found out..

That the ACC and ESPN have no contract, at this point, past 2026 has already been ferreted out, They tried their best to hide that.

Heck, there is a chance that the ACC will be paying Clemson...and, if so, FSU.

 

[Ha Who]

The rule 1 car wash is saying ST Johns and Nova to the ACC. And Marquette/Creighton to the Big 12