ESPN Top 10 NBA Players of All Time Mistake | Page 8 | The Boneyard

ESPN Top 10 NBA Players of All Time Mistake

UConn2SF said:
Magic Johnson pretty much sums it up in eight words: "There's Michael, then there's the rest of us."
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Magic was the most incredible player I ever saw in college, thought he was better than MJ. In the pros MJ was #1 in my book.
 
My top 10-

1) Jordan
2) Lebron
3) Kareem
4) Magic and Bird (tied)
6) Wilt
7) Russell
8) Hakeem
9) Duncan
10) Shaq

Oscar, Kobe, Dr. J outside looking in.

I see a lot of these all-time lists and often Bird is underrated. When he came to the Celtics they were in last place. Bird was basically done at 31 with a debilitating back but gutted it out a few more years off of sheer grit and skill.

When Bird was drafted the Celtics went from worst to first. They were 29-53 the season before Larry got there, Bird's rookie year they went 61-21. For that 7 year prime before his back got the best of him Bird averaged 27 ppg, 10 rebs, 6 assist, 2 steals, 51% fg, 39.5% 3pt. 89% ft. In Bird's prime he was the best player in the world, slightly ahead of Magic. When people talk about the greateat players ever Magic is always at the top and Bird seems like an afterthought.

Both Bird and Magic's careers were cut too short.
 
superjohn said:
My top 10-

1) Jordan
2) Lebron
3) Kareem
4) Magic and Bird (tied)
6) Wilt
7) Russell
8) Hakeem
9) Duncan
10) Shaq

Oscar, Kobe, Dr. J outside looking in.

I see a lot of these all-time lists and often Bird is underrated. When he came to the Celtics they were in last place. Bird was basically done at 31 with a debilitating back but gutted it out a few more years off of sheer grit and skill.

When Bird was drafted the Celtics went from worst to first. They were 29-53 the season before Larry got there, Bird's rookie year they went 61-21. For that 7 year prime before his back got the best of him Bird averaged 27 ppg, 10 rebs, 6 assist, 2 steals, 51% fg, 39.5% 3pt. 89% ft. In Bird's prime he was the best player in the world, slightly ahead of Magic. When people talk about the greateat players ever Magic is always at the top and Bird seems like an afterthought.

Both Bird and Magic's careers were cut too short.
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A lot of people forget what a dominant player Bird was in college as well. He was a one man wrecking crew, brought Indiana State to the NCAA finals IIRC. Lost to Magic and Michigan State.
 
MilliniumPrince said:
Between Lebron and MJ there is no wrong choice, just a matter of preference. I have Lebron ahead, but both are deserving.

My beef is the rest of the list. May he Rest In Glory, but Kobe was far too inefficient to be top 10. He played almost half his career as Shaq's "Robin" and still never managed a great FG%. Lebron, Jordan, Bird, Dr. J, hell KD are all great non-bigs and all shot at least 48% from the field. You can't be inefficient at the thing that is your best attribute. His career numbers are almost identical to Carmelo's.
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Excellent points. Agree Jordan and Lebron is super close, and I feel bad saying it but Kobe is fringe top 10 at best
 
Lefty2one said:
He was unreal though. Games 3-7:

30.8 / 4.4 / 4.2 plus 1.8 steals on an insane .508 / .467 / .952 split.

For the series Steph was 22.6 / 4.9 / 3.7 (with a brutal 4.3 TOV/g). Shot .403 / .400 / .929
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Agreed. But if he shows up game one, that series never goes seven games. For the hype he gets, he should get a pass on always showing up late in big series.

Curry, as great as he is, has Steve Nash Syndrome. The uncanny ability of a well regarded PG to make absolutely brutal turnovers in tight playoff games.
 
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B1GEast said:
The problem with your analysis is that the level of talent greatly diminished as time passed.

Jordan had to go against Bird, Issiah, Magic, Wilkins, Ewing, Shaq, Olajuwan, Robinson, Malone, Barkley, Kemp, and so many more all stars.

Lebron is amazing, but honestly, the NBA during the Lebron era pales into comparison with the heavy weights the Jordan faced every game.

Jordan > Lebron

So which team Jordan beat in the finals would you say was better than the Durant, Curry, Thompson, Green Warriors? Which was better than the Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Popovich-coached Spurs?
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huskyfever34 said:
Excellent points. Agree Jordan and Lebron is super close, and I feel bad saying it but Kobe is fringe top 10 at best
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Kobe was so prolific it is hard to push him lower. Personally, I think Dirk had a better but less spectacular career. I don't have Kobe in my top 10. I think he and Dirk fall somewhere between 15 - 20.
 
Stlh8L8ner said:
Lebron's a freak physical talent but his flopping is an embarrassment which is why he may be top 10 or even top 5 but #2 is a stretch. I could never imagine MJ or Wilt getting grazed by someone's hand and falling down and rolling around on the floor like they got hit with a tire iron.
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That should be more a reflection of how the modern NBA is officiated, with more ticky-tack calls and flagrants, than a condemnation of Lebron himself. It's almost stupid not to react to fouls that way these days to earn FT's. If you want to say there's an embarrasing extreme of that look at Harden.
 
Chin Diesel said:
Take a look at the top 25 in this list and compare how many of them Jordan competed against and how many of them Lebron competed against. Jordan competed against more of the all-time greats than Lebron has.
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Your saying none of Giannis, Curry, Durant, Kawhi, and his other contemporaries have no chance of getting there someday? Obviously Jordan's contemporaries can be judged and placed because we can look at the whole sample of their careers.
 
superjohn said:
Wade is better than Pippen and I don't consider it close. Pippen was a great player but that espn list is a joke. They have Pippen ranked way ahead of Drexler, ahead of Barkley, Wade, Elgin Baylor, David Robinson etc.

Rodman and Bosh are so hard to compare. Rodman was an amazing rebounder and defender, Bosh an offensive force. Bosh was way better than Horace Grant.
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But Wade by his 3rd year with Lebron was already a defenseive liability because of his bad knee. By his 4th year he was practically washed. Just look at the couple years after that if you don't believe me. Lebron only got 2 years of playing with the "better than Pippen version" of Wade and year 1 they struggled to coexist due to poor coaching and being hated by fans everywhere.
 
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Huskyforlife said:
Legend X says player X is the goat has to be the worst sports argument.
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Why? Great players tend to recognize greatness in other players a lot better than random people who don't play the game do.
 
HuskeyinSC said:
Did anyone ever average a triple double for their entire NBA career?
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Only two players have averaged a triple double for a season, never mind a career. I thought maybe Oscar Robinson would be close, but he wasn't.
 
superjohn said:
Wade is better than Pippen and I don't consider it close. Pippen was a great player but that espn list is a joke. They have Pippen ranked way ahead of Drexler, ahead of Barkley, Wade, Elgin Baylor, David Robinson etc.

Rodman and Bosh are so hard to compare. Rodman was an amazing rebounder and defender, Bosh an offensive force. Bosh was way better than Horace Grant.
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A lot of ppl take Pippen over Wade. Wade a better scorer but Pippen better in every other category. I’m not very high on think He’s a guy that put up numbers on raptors teams that were bad to average. but hard to argue grant was better then him.
 
Burnsbros23 said:
A lot of ppl take Pippen over Wade. Wade a better scorer but Pippen better in every other category. I’m not very high on think He’s a guy that put up numbers on raptors teams that were bad to average. but hard to argue grant was better then him.
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The better argument would be who was more valuable between Rodman and Bosh.
 
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superjohn said:
My top 10-

1) Jordan
2) Lebron
3) Kareem
4) Magic and Bird (tied)
6) Wilt
7) Russell
8) Hakeem
9) Duncan
10) Shaq

Oscar, Kobe, Dr. J outside looking in.

I see a lot of these all-time lists and often Bird is underrated. When he came to the Celtics they were in last place. Bird was basically done at 31 with a debilitating back but gutted it out a few more years off of sheer grit and skill.

When Bird was drafted the Celtics went from worst to first. They were 29-53 the season before Larry got there, Bird's rookie year they went 61-21. For that 7 year prime before his back got the best of him Bird averaged 27 ppg, 10 rebs, 6 assist, 2 steals, 51% fg, 39.5% 3pt. 89% ft. In Bird's prime he was the best player in the world, slightly ahead of Magic. When people talk about the greateat players ever Magic is always at the top and Bird seems like an afterthought.

Both Bird and Magic's careers were cut too short.
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I was going to do my own list today.

I'll make it simple. Forget the tie. Magic one spot above Bird. Put Oscar at #10 ahead of Shaq and call it good.

Jordan
Magic
Bron
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Russell
Timmy D
Hakeem
Big O.
 
Burnsbros23 said:
A lot of ppl take Pippen over Wade. Wade a better scorer but Pippen better in every other category. I’m not very high on think He’s a guy that put up numbers on raptors teams that were bad to average. but hard to argue grant was better then him.
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Wade was a #1 who could carry a team to championships. Pippen just never had the game to do that.
 
navery12 said:
Great players who couldn't identify talent as executives
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What does that have to do with them deciding who is the greatest player of all-time? Who is better equipped to say who the best is than the guys who played the game at the highest level and actually went head to head against them?
 
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superjohn said:
What does that have to do with them deciding who is the greatest player of all-time? Who is better equipped to say who the best is than the guys who played the game at the highest level and actually went head to head against them?
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Don't shoot the messenger
 
superjohn said:
Wade was a #1 who could carry a team to championships. Pippen just never had the game to do that.
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I think Pippen is criminally underrated. Wade did that once, with Shaq and a good cast. Pippen only had one season to try it and he got to the ECF with a great, MVP type season.

I get your point because they’re different types of offensive players... Pip was not the pure scorer Wade was but I dno if that makes Wade clearly better. In fact, Pippens all around game is so much better than Wade, I weigh that pretty heavily.
 
Mr. French said:
I get your point because they’re different types of offensive players... Pip was not the pure scorer Wade was but I dno if that makes Wade clearly better. In fact, Pippens all around game is so much better than Wade, I weigh that pretty heavily.
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Wade was a fantastic all around player. If you look at peak Pippen without Jordan (mostly), 1993-1995 he was excellent:

22 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 3 spg, 1 bpg

Peak Wade without LeBron (2005-2010)

27 ppg, 5 rpg, 7 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg

Pippen, beyond stats, was one of the best defenders ever. Wade, though, did make 3 All NBA Second Team Defensive teams. He wasn't a slouch.
 
Mr. French said:
I think Pippen is criminally underrated. Wade did that once, with Shaq and a good cast. Pippen only had one season to try it and he got to the ECF with a great, MVP type season.

I get your point because they’re different types of offensive players... Pip was not the pure scorer Wade was but I dno if that makes Wade clearly better. In fact, Pippens all around game is so much better than Wade, I weigh that pretty heavily.
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You're selling Wade short when knocking his all-around game. He was a really good defender while he still had his legs. Not on Pippen's level but one of the better defensive guards in the league. Made All-D three times. He averaged 7 dimes per game before LeBron showed up in Miami. The six years before The Heatles Wade put up 26.7 / 5.0 / 7.0. I think a lot of people forget how good of a playmaker he was before he had to relent to LeBron. I really think Wade is going to end up being one of the most underappreciated stars of this generation.

Shaq was past his prime in '06. Still decent but nowhere near the dominant force he once was. He was pretty good in the postseason but posted only 13.7 ppg in the Finals. That was the D-Wade show, though the officiating was so bad I nearly stopped following the NBA after that.

Re: Pippen, few people bring up '94-'95. Chicago was 32-31 before MJ returned. That team was cruising towards a first-round exit. Pippen was still great but I think that showed some of his limitations. MJ returned and the team started a 12-1 stretch like three games into his return.
 
tzznandrew said:
Wade was a fantastic all around player. If you look at peak Pippen without Jordan (mostly), 1993-1995 he was excellent:

22 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 3 spg, 1 bpg

Peak Wade without LeBron (2005-2010)

27 ppg, 5 rpg, 7 apg, 2 spg, 1 bpg

Pippen, beyond stats, was one of the best defenders ever. Wade, though, did make 3 All NBA Second Team Defensive teams. He wasn't a slouch.
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I think we were separated at birth.
 
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