Durham transferring

[T-Squared]

This is what I wrote and this is what you somehow misinterpreted because you seem to have some sort of bug up your ass.

"Get ready for scrubs.

We've lost three top-40 type players in a week. We will replace them with exactly zero top-40 players.

That bill will come due in a big way over the next two seasons."

Why you determined that only pertained to Juwan leaving is not my problem. I would think the words "three top-40 type players" would have tipped you off that I was referring to three players, but so be it. I can only write what I write and hope it's enough - I can't drive to your house and explain it to you.

If those guys were "top-40 type players" then the folks handing out the rankings don't know what they're doing.

 

[Lefty2one]

Don't sleep on Cobb, he average 10 rbg when he became a starter in the 2nd half of the yr. We all know rebounding translates in all levels.

We do? Didn't Mike Hayes lead the country in rebounding as a JuCo? That didn't exactly translate.

 

[sledog]

A lot to mull over after dealing with yet another train derailment at Penn Station today.

Best I can add is that it seems the tophat / magic wand / red cape combo is in order.

 

[HooperScooper]

Get ready for scrubs.

We've lost three top-40 type players in a week. We will replace them with exactly zero top-40 players.

That bill will come due in a big way over the next two seasons.

And that's exactly what I'm afraid of. Trying to fill out the roster this late with 3, 4 or 5 more players is going to kill them in the next few years. And since the roster has some risk with 3 guys coming off season long injuries I think Ollie is going to try to fill out the roster. I highly doubt he wants to be left shorthanded like he was this year. Ollie is in quite a bind here.

 

[djct1999]

Not sure what's more disturbing, that these players are leaving or that 2 of them showed absolutely nothing in their time at UConn. We don't have a single frontcourt player returning who has played a single minute of college basketball and we have a total of two returning healthy players. Ollie better pull a miracle this spring signing period or his days look to be numbered.

The answer is easy.....these guys showed nothing. I am supposed to get really upset over potential. A lot of guys have potential. Juwan Durham showed me nothing. Literally nothing to be that excited about. Next!!!!!! Give me the free ship!

 

[Towney007]

If those guys were "top-40 type players" then the folks handing out the rankings don't know what they're doing.

I recruit for summer college baseball (not the same, but still) - and while I don't want to talk about myself that much and recognizing it's not anywhere near the same - but I can tell you from having spent more time than any human should have to ever spend on top 100 recruiting lists - they're usually steaming piles of crap. Go through any of them the last four years and tell me how accurate they are. In some cases (Perfect Game), they're almost paid services with some goofball high school sophomore just regurgitating scouting lingo that can be gobbled up by people who want to know, but don't know what they're talking about.

You can watch 60 videos with stop watch on your own and know a kid doesn't run a 6.5 60. Or they'll take his best 60 time or his top velocity and put that on the report page. They overreport height, weight... They mess up handedness, etc. And you'd be surprised - college coaches spend plenty of time getting burned by them all the time.

Given the number of complete and total idiots circling like buzzards around the AAU scene and the like these days, I would actually expect hoops to be substantially worse.

 

[shizzle787]

I recruit for summer college baseball (not the same, but still) - and while I don't want to talk about myself that much and recognizing it's not anywhere near the same - but I can tell you from having spent more time than any human should have to ever spend on top 100 recruiting lists - they're usually steaming piles of crap. Go through any of them the last four years and tell me how accurate they are. In some cases (Perfect Game), they're almost paid services with some goofball high school sophomore just regurgitating scouting lingo that can be gobbled up by people who want to know, but don't know what they're talking about.

You can watch 60 videos with stop watch on your own and know a kid doesn't run a 6.5 60. Or they'll take his best 60 time or his top velocity and put that on the report page. They overreport height, weight... They mess up handedness, etc. And you'd be surprised - college coaches spend plenty of time getting burned by them all the time.

Given the number of complete and total idiots circling like buzzards around the AAU scene and the like these days, I would actually expect hoops to be substantially worse.

Scary.

 

[tzznandrew]

And that's exactly what I'm afraid of. Trying to fill out the roster this late with 3, 4 or 5 more players is going to kill them in the next few years. And since the roster has some risk with 3 guys coming off season long injuries I think Ollie is going to try to fill out the roster. I highly doubt he wants to be left shorthanded like he was this year. Ollie is in quite a bind here.

You need balance in your classes, too.

There are no seniors and now only one sophomore. Also, dangerously, there are 4 players who will technically be freshmen. They can't have a 9 person freshmen class. We've more or less done that before (Dyson-Edwards-Sticks-Kelly-Wiggins-Eaves-Mandeldove) and the logjam and fall out was a major reason we ran into APR issues.

They need a 2-3 freshmen (more than ideal, but nothing here's ideal), 1-2 grad transfers (ideally someone like Cam Johnson who'd come in with 2 years left from what I've read) and maybe a high-end transfer who would sit and play with the team.

 

[pj]

Alright, let me shed some light that will hopefully calm everyone down. As @fleudslipcon said, I've known this was coming for over a week, but because of speculation rules I couldn't say anything on the board. Here's some info from the same source that told me Juwan was leaving that I hope will calm everyone down.

1) There is no team chemistry/hate KO mentality in the locker room
2) Both Vance and Juwan leaving were PRIMARILY because of being homesick. I know that a lot of us don't want to believe that because of what VJ Sr was tweeting.
3) Admittedly, there was some griping by the players that left over playing time (more so by Enoch and some by Vance I would assume), but it was mostly playing time. I know I know I know - "but there was going to be so much time open." That's true, but between a perceived lack of 'proper use' and missing home, 2 of these guys wanted to head back closer to home for that 'home cooked meal.'
4) MAL leaving was primarily because of Miller being let go - not because he was nervous about stepping foot onto a sinking ship
5) This is it. There isn't anyone else leaving. If I end up being wrong on this, I'll take whatever heat you guys can throw at me.
6) Morale is VERY high with the players that are left

This isn't a great look for the UConn Men's BB program right now, but it's not nearly is chaotic up in Storrs as many seem to think it is. Ollie has not lost control of this team.

If MAL decommitted because of Miller, then I hope KO and Chillious are re-recruiting him. MAL isn't going to play for Miller regardless so he could still find KO, Chillious, Killings, and Moore his best bet.

 

[Towney007]

And not to run this thread off the rails, but:

Our RFer doesn't even have a PG profile and he goes to Morehead State. He's a finalist for the Golden Spikes award.

Our SS was a preferred walk-on at Marist. He's been player of the week in the MAAC three weeks in a row and arguably the best prospect in the conference right now.

I had Max Pentecost - who was National Player of the year and got drafted 11th overall a few years back - no one had even heard of him and he wasn't even rated as a top 50 player - IN HIS OWN STATE.

Chris Sale's pretty good, right? Guess where he fell on a top prospects list out of high school - on none of them. He went to Florida flippin' Gulf Coast.

We have a two-time all Big East Catcher from Xavier... rated #200 in his state. He'll probably be a top-5 rounder.

We had a kid from Texas - Travis Jones, who can literally play anywhere and for my money - is the best player i've ever had when you put the whole enchillada together and after hitting .334 and 11 bombs here, he was rated #99 on the PG top 100 draft prospects list.... 44 spots below a kid who I also had that hit a .167 here, is built like a pipe cleaner but runs 6.3 so auto-prospect. Kid #2 couldn't lace Travis' cleats.

D1 Baseball.com has half of its stories about Rice baseball because one of the guys lives close to the field and covers them like crazy. But their prospect lists are just built on glances. Or 'oh he throws hard' or 'oh he's got a good body' or 'oh short, compact wing' or whatever tool there is. There are guys we call 'showcase players' who go to scouting combines and throw well, hit BP into orbit, run super fast, catch on the run... but in a game they're useless. They're physical freaks with no feel for the game.

Sorry to drive this into oblivion, but I know there's even more idiots in basketball than there are in baseball - which is saying something - and when you read scouting reports on kids online, it's usually written by some other kid, aspiring to be a hoops scout who doesn't have any idea what they're talking about at all. I read about 2-3 scouting reports on Enoch and he was literally, actually none of the things in his report. And like I just said - you'd be amazed at how many lazy upper echilon college coaches just go 'oh ok, top 40 guy speaks for itself just offer him' without doing much of any leg work on them. It happens ALL THE TIME in baseball. I wouldn't be surprised to see it be that way in hoops in many cases as well.


Prospect lists are total and complete garbage. Star ratings WTH is that anyway? What makes a guy a ****3/4 different from a guy who is ****1/2? It's just stupidity. Dumb content for dumb people to gobble up. Get on the court and play.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

If those guys were "top-40 type players" then the folks handing out the rankings don't know what they're doing.

These 3 eventually could be top 40ish players somewhere else (in their class). That is a real possibility.

 

[djct1999]

These 3 eventually could be top 40ish players somewhere else (in their class). That is a real possibility.

Or they can suck. Another real possibility. In this case, I'll trust the guys who see them every day.

 

[FartMan69]

I recruit for summer college baseball (not the same, but still) - and while I don't want to talk about myself that much and recognizing it's not anywhere near the same - but I can tell you from having spent more time than any human should have to ever spend on top 100 recruiting lists - they're usually steaming piles of crap. Go through any of them the last four years and tell me how accurate they are. In some cases (Perfect Game), they're almost paid services with some goofball high school sophomore just regurgitating scouting lingo that can be gobbled up by people who want to know, but don't know what they're talking about.

You can watch 60 videos with stop watch on your own and know a kid doesn't run a 6.5 60. Or they'll take his best 60 time or his top velocity and put that on the report page. They overreport height, weight... They mess up handedness, etc. And you'd be surprised - college coaches spend plenty of time getting burned by them all the time.

Given the number of complete and total idiots circling like buzzards around the AAU scene and the like these days, I would actually expect hoops to be substantially worse.

PG is the absolute biggest scam in HS sports. It made me cringe when some of my teammates who were 4th outfielders/pinch runners parents would spend oodles of money on batting practice and a youtube video.

 

[Jimdish255]

I do. There is no way he's getting 5 more kids. He shouldn't even try to. I'd be happy if he can get three more players that aren't scrubs.

Heck 2 or 3 would be solid and a guy like EJ Harrison who we plucked from WesConn worked out pretty good. Look under all rocks.

 

[T-Squared]

Prospect lists are total and complete garbage. Star ratings WTH is that anyway? What makes a guy a ****3/4 different from a guy who is ****1/2? It's just stupidity. Dumb content for dumb people to gobble up. Get on the court and play.

^^^ This. Times 10.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

We will have a BB team next year
If Gilbert and Larrier are healthy
It's going to be a good one.
In 2012
We lost
Lamb
Drummond
AO
Roscoe
JC was gone ,we were suspended ,and life as we knew it was over

Compare that to The fearsome group
SE
Jackson
and a guy that couldn't get on the floor when we only had six healthy players
Listen you bunch of wimps
Was it over when the Germans Bonmded Pearl Harbor ?

PS We won 20 games going 10-8 in the BE and the year after that we even did better.

Next year is my 63 season as a UConn fan and I look forward to a great year.

 

[Dove]

KO's image of being a great recruiter has crashed. So many transfers by candy-asses is atrocious. Those empty seats Benedict saw last season are not going away for a while. Wicked Tuna better be a big-time recruiter as many have described him here.

This program will not win 20 games next year or the next. fml.

Whate we're seeing now is us having to accept a three year rebuilding project. Adams has to be upset just a bit. He will be tied to this period of mediocrity.

 

[nomar]

KO's image of being a great recruiter has crashed. So many transfers by candy-asses is atrocious. Those empty seats Benedict saw last season are not going away for a while. Wicked Tuna better be a big-time recruiter as many have described him here.

This program will not win 20 games next year or the next. fml.

Whate we're seeing now is us having to accept a three year rebuilding project. Adams has to be upset just a bit. He will be tied to this period of mediocrity.

Dove, have a Snickers.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Yeah, but are you gonna give KO the rope to do that?

I mean, if this many people are abandoning the program, maybe it's fair to question if there's a reason.

I've said in other threads underperforming organizations need change to isolate variables. If team is in disarray next it eliminates this year's batch of players.

Same thing if coaching staff is still a mess.

KO has squarely gone all in on himself and his vision of a program.

He's betting on himself to succeed.

Let's see where it goes.

 

[pj]

This one hurts, we have nothing left at the big spots, and he's going to be great. Good luck Juwan.

If he's going to be great, he probably puts basketball first, ahead of playing close to home.

I've heard a number of great players speak of how they got homesick and wanted to go home, but fought through it. Priorities predict success.

I wish Juwan the best of luck but this decision suggests he won't be great.

 

[pj]

It's insane.

We're basically returning Jalen and Christian.

Then three kids coming off season ending injuries, a JUCO and a couple of three-ish star recruits.

We have five open scholarships in April!

I'm stunned someone could look at this and think this is the best we can do.

The pessimistic view is that KO has made a lot of mistakes, and the recent changes are more mistakes.

The optimistic view is that KO made a lot of recruiting mistakes, and the recent departures are purging them and creating room for something better.

We'll see which it is. Either way, we have a young coach, I guess we were bound to have a learning curve.

 

[pj]

“At first, it was mainly because of Coach Miller leaving that made me think about it,” the 6-foot-2 guard told ESPN.com’s Adam Finkelstein. “But as I started to do that, I realized I kind of made my first decision spontaneously right after my visit.” -MAL

I hope they are re-recruiting him and bring him back into the fold. If this is really why he de-committed, then UConn should still be his leader.

But if he's scared of competing with Jalen, Alterique, and Christian for minutes, he's a prima donna. Minutes are there, if he came he'd be getting 20+ if he's any good, plenty of 3-guard lineups. A guy who fears competition doesn't belong here.

 

[Dove]

Dove, have a Snickers.

Better!

 

[hardcorehusky]

This thread reminds me of the Randy Edsall return thread. People either loved it or hated it. Here it is Ollie good people vs those who think this is a dumpster fire.

If this was a dumpster fire, would Chillious have come here? Why go to a dumpster fire when you were fired from a dumpster fire? That sounds like career suicide. So no, I don't believe the program is on its way down. Is it concerning right now? Yes.

Durham has upside- if he wants to be closer to home, if he wants a reset to his career, it is his prerogative. Do I think he owed KO a little bit more for standing by him? Yes. But in today's world, people are in kids ears and they I wish him luck.

Let's see who comes in and what they look like before we reserve judgment. I still think a 3 guard lineup with Gilbert at Point, Vital and Adams as wings can pressure and run. Larrier at the 4 and Cobb/Carlton at the 5 and Diarra as a change up. This team needs to up tempo and run. We will need more depth and better rebounding from the 4 and 5 spot, and if we do we will finish Top 3 in the conference(including Wichita St) and will make the NCAA Tourney next year. Book it!!

 

[BUConn10]

This thread reminds me of the Randy Edsall return thread. People either loved it or hated it. Here it is Ollie good people vs those who think this is a dumpster fire.

If this was a dumpster fire, would Chillious have come here? Why go to a dumpster fire when you were fired from a dumpster fire? That sounds like career suicide. So no, I don't believe the program is on its way down. Is it concerning right now? Yes.

Durham has upside- if he wants to be closer to home, if he wants a reset to his career, it is his prerogative. Do I think he owed KO a little bit more for standing by him? Yes. But in today's world, people are in kids ears and they I wish him luck.

Let's see who comes in and what they look like before we reserve judgment. I still think a 3 guard lineup with Gilbert at Point, Vital and Adams as wings can pressure and run. Larrier at the 4 and Cobb/Carlton at the 5 and Diarra as a change up. This team needs to up tempo and run. We will need more depth and better rebounding from the 4 and 5 spot, and if we do we will finish Top 3 in the conference(including Wichita St) and will make the NCAA Tourney next year. Book it!!

All KO good or bad talk aside... basing whether the current situation is an upward or downward trajectory for the program off of the logic behind Chillious accepting this job is asinine.