Development of incoming freshman

[DEpup]

Totally agree about Megan and I know a lot of folks including me on this board are hard on her but its because she is so good. She's being asked to work within a complex motion system and all these other flashy freshmen around the country are free wheelin' it for the most part.

 

[Rocket009]

Please don't mischaracterize my words. After 32 years and all the success, it's not the coaching in my opinion. It's these coddled children who get trophies for nothing and everyone telling them they are amazing....

Well... I think a generation that had affordable education, cheap housing, plentiful jobs is maybe the coddled one... (and I am a part of that generation).

 

[JoePgh]

She would put up similar numbers if she played on a very good team other than UCONN.

Um, let’s test that hypothesis. The other “very good teams” (at least if you judge by current rankings) are Mississippi State, Louisville, Notre Dame, and probably Baylor. What freshman on any of their rosters is putting up similar numbers to the players mentioned previously in this thread, all of whom play for lesser teams? For that matter, what freshman on any of those teams is putting up numbers that are better than Megan Walker’s? Or playing more minutes than she is?

Orangutan mentioned that Danielle Patterson on Notre Dame’s roster is having about the same kind of season as Megan, despite her talent and despite Notre Dame’s famously shortened bench. But maybe you can provide another example.

Go a little further down the rankings to South Carolina and Texas. What freshmen on their rosters is putting up big numbers? That is an important question, because Texas has some freshmen who were very highly ranked as high school players. How are they doing this year?

In some years, all of these schools had freshmen who made an impact. So has UConn: Kia Nurse, Maya Moore, Renee Montgomery, Breanna Stewart (but only late in the season). Most people think Gabby Williams was and is more talented than Kia, but Kia had a much bigger role as a freshman because of her work ethic and personal maturity.

Do you think that Megan is as mature, or works as hard, as Kia or Maya were and did in their freshman years? No? Then why should she play as much as they did?

 

[Charliebball]

not sure which other players you're referring to but the one freshman among the schools you mentioned that's getting playing time is Alexis Morris at Baylor..................she's now at almost 24 minutes per game is second on the team in assists and first in free throw/three point percentages and averages 8.5 ppg...........as many predicted she's going to be really good really soon............

 

[donalddoowop]

Um, let’s test that hypothesis. The other “very good teams” (at least if you judge by current rankings) are Mississippi State, Louisville, Notre Dame, and probably Baylor. What freshman on any of their rosters is putting up similar numbers to the players mentioned previously in this thread, all of whom play for lesser teams? For that matter, what freshman on any of those teams is putting up numbers that are better than Megan Walker’s? Or playing more minutes than she is?

Orangutan mentioned that Danielle Patterson on Notre Dame’s roster is having about the same kind of season as Megan, despite her talent and despite Notre Dame’s famously shortened bench. But maybe you can provide another example.

Go a little further down the rankings to South Carolina and Texas. What freshmen on their rosters is putting up big numbers? That is an important question, because Texas has some freshmen who were very highly ranked as high school players. How are they doing this year?

In some years, all of these schools had freshmen who made an impact. So has UConn: Kia Nurse, Maya Moore, Renee Montgomery, Breanna Stewart (but only late in the season). Most people think Gabby Williams was and is more talented than Kia, but Kia had a much bigger role as a freshman because of her work ethic and personal maturity.

Do you think that Megan is as mature, or works as hard, as Kia or Maya were and did in their freshman years? No? Then why should she play as much as they did?

I don't know what the heck you are thinking! My post had NOTHING to do with Walker playing as much as the people you mentioned. I was responding to a post by Title Town. I understand why Walker is not playing more minutes this season. If you had read his post and saw that I was responding to it you would not have made that stupid response. You seem to be looking for something to complain about. Also, the teams you named are not the only other very good teams out there. If any very good team allowed her to play and shoot as much as some other freshmen are playing and shooting, she would be just as productive as they have been. That does not mean she should be playing more at UCONN. See the whole picture before you respond. Further, you don't know how mature Walker is or how hard she works. Have you watched her in practice?

 

[MilfordHusky]

nope. both had one outstanding game, where they were arguably the difference maker. both were sick and had a hard time recovering form. both spent a lot of time on the bench. But it's hard to imagine anyone deeper in Geno's doghouse than a point guard who didn't play the final minutes or the OT of the semis last year and therefore Saniya had to carry that entire load.

main difference: in two years, Crystal may be the best point guard in America. In three years, Meg will be the best player in America.

I tend to agree. Maybe Crystal was a little better than Meg, but I think they are fairly similar. As I’m sitting in Clint Eastwood’s restaurant in Carmel-by-the-Sea, I want to paraphrase another tough guy, Jack Palance: “Season ain’t over yet.”

 

[augustaTC]

A product of the coaching. If the bench players aren't ready by mid February what makes you think they'll be ready by November.

Oh, I dunno, but might ask Crystal for her view on the subject.

 

[Centerstream]

It appears to me that now the coaching staff has to now teach these kids how to work hard and then start teaching them basketball. It's unfortunate because it stunts their growth.

and @DEpup posted: "It's these coddled children who get trophies for nothing and everyone telling them they are amazing...."
This may be off topic but I hope not. I do remember reading here on the BY that one recruit, highly ranked at that, cited a reason for not selecting UConn was because Geno/CD would not allow her to wear "short-short" trunks. Now, I don't know if this statement is indeed a fact but if it is, the next years of recruiting will be fun for every coach, having to "bend" to the desires of potential recruits if they want them to be on their team.

 

[meyers7]

Heather Buck

I never did expect a whole lot out of her. But yea, more than he could get. At least shoot the ball when you get a rebound under the rim instead of passing it back out to the perimeter.

 

[meyers7]

A product of the coaching. If the bench players aren't ready by mid February what makes you think they'll be ready by November.

Oh I don't know, history of the program?

 

[DEpup]

not sure which other players you're referring to but the one freshman among the schools you mentioned that's getting playing time is Alexis Morris at Baylor...she's now at almost 24 minutes per game is second on the team in assists and first in free throw/three point percentages and averages 8.5 ppg......as many predicted she's going to be really good really soon..

On any given night, Baylor has only 8-9 players available and that includes bigs that need rest so they kind of have to play her....

 

[Charliebball]

On any given night, Baylor has only 8-9 players available and that includes bigs that need rest so they kind of have to play her....

true but sometimes, especially with really good players that sink or swim approach works..........Baylor has 10 players on their roster including three freshman guards...................not sure if anybody is injured...............Morris is already good and she's going to get better..............Richards gets some playing time too.............I understand Geno's methods regarding freshmen but it comes at a cost to his starters................only time will tell how costly this policy will be

 

[CocoHusky]

true but sometimes, especially with really good players that sink or swim approach works.....Baylor has 10 players on their roster including three freshman guards....not sure if anybody is injured.....Morris is already good and she's going to get better....Richards gets some playing time too...I understand Geno's methods regarding freshmen but it comes at a cost to his starters......only time will tell how costly this policy will be

It not Geno's method towards "Freshmen" only , yet another area where the OP of this thread misses the point. Geno method applies equally towards all players in all classes. If you can't impact the game in a positive way you are not going to play-end of story!

 

[my2cents]

Here's a scenario:
National Title game, game tied, 5 minutes to go in the 4th: Gabby is out because of her hip, Phesse has fouled out.
Geno's Choices:
A) Play 4 players
B) Molly Bent
C) Kyla Irwin
D) Megan Walker

Bet he wished he did a better job to prepare for this, what would you do?

 

[BroadwayVa]

Um, let’s test that hypothesis. The other “very good teams” (at least if you judge by current rankings) are Mississippi State, Louisville, Notre Dame, and probably Baylor. What freshman on any of their rosters is putting up similar numbers to the players mentioned previously in this thread, all of whom play for lesser teams? For that matter, what freshman on any of those teams is putting up numbers that are better than Megan Walker’s? Or playing more minutes than she is?

Orangutan mentioned that Danielle Patterson on Notre Dame’s roster is having about the same kind of season as Megan, despite her talent and despite Notre Dame’s famously shortened bench. But maybe you can provide another example.

Go a little further down the rankings to South Carolina and Texas. What freshmen on their rosters is putting up big numbers? That is an important question, because Texas has some freshmen who were very highly ranked as high school players. How are they doing this year?

In some years, all of these schools had freshmen who made an impact. So has UConn: Kia Nurse, Maya Moore, Renee Montgomery, Breanna Stewart (but only late in the season). Most people think Gabby Williams was and is more talented than Kia, but Kia had a much bigger role as a freshman because of her work ethic and personal maturity.

Do you think that Megan is as mature, or works as hard, as Kia or Maya were and did in their freshman years? No? Then why should she play as much as they did?

I won't take this opportunity to agree or disagree. \
Kia vs Gabby in "talent" I'll discuss. Gabby is a talent and athletic from which most of her talent grows. Kia is a TALENT from many many years on the international and olympic stage. I don't think the poor kid has had a week off from high level basketball in 10 years. In those years she has become a Professional, a hard working, hard playing TALENT. Don't ask me to choose between KIA or Gabby that a tough choice. Make no mistake Kia IS a Talent.
Maturity is difficult definition; many have a poorly defined assumption of maturity. Certainly it is not being old. But I will ask you to define Maturity of Ms Walker. In my definition she IS mature. What she is learning is the difference between being the "go to" scoring, everything HS player to the support and play within the very very very tough Geno system. She is tip-toe-ing and thinking pass first (Geno's way) score fourth. In HS she was free to score first. Between now and next November her "maturity" may not change but her immersion within this system will show a more perfect player that she truly is. However, her numbers and time played don't reflect Maya (who did) but she is a more perfect WBB player than "those others" identified. If Megan Walker had
played for the Canadian or American National teams, as Kia did, Megan too would be starting for Geno.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Here's a scenario:
National Title game, game tied, 5 minutes to go in the 4th: Gabby is out because of her hip, Phesse has fouled out.
Geno's Choices:
A) Play 4 players
B) Molly Bent
C) Kyla Irwin
D) Megan Walker

Bet he wished he did a better job to prepare for this, what would you do?

A very real and scary possibility. Geno would put in Z, and if he needed someone else then Megan.

 

[BroadwayVa]

It appears to me that now the coaching staff has to now teach these kids how to work hard and then start teaching them basketball. It's unfortunate because it stunts their growth.

Bye Bye Birdie paraphrasing Socrates (who said it 1000 years previous) "Why can't they be like we were perfect in every way, what's the matter with kids to day?"

 

[Charliebball]

A very real and scary possibility. Geno would put in Z, and if he needed someone else then Megan.

I wouldn't know how to answer such an open ended question..............wouldn't it depend on match ups? Is the opposing player a slow 6'3" forward or a quick 5'11" wing? I have no doubts that all of the players are drilled on playing specific positional roles so success would really come down to subs making the right choices on the floor and to some degree skill level.............

 

[HoopsFan21]

I wouldn't know how to answer such an open ended question....wouldn't it depend on match ups? Is the opposing player a slow 6'3" forward or a quick 5'11" wing? I have no doubts that all of the players are drilled on playing specific positional roles so success would really come down to subs making the right choices on the floor and to some degree skill level...

Yeah that's true, but my main point was the rotation is a solid 7. Megan and Z are works in progress, but it's not like they are terrible and can't be used. I would hate to lose Gabby or Collier, but we could survive.

 

[CocoHusky]

Here's a scenario:
National Title game, game tied, 5 minutes to go in the 4th: Gabby is out because of her hip, Phesse has fouled out.
Geno's Choices:
A) Play 4 players
B) Molly Bent
C) Kyla Irwin
D) Megan Walker
Bet he wished he did a better job to prepare for this, what would you do?

Knowing how stubborn Geno is and the fact that he's never prepared his player properly A) becomes the only logical choice.

 

[Charliebball]

Yeah that's true, but my main point was the rotation is a solid 7. Megan and Z are works in progress, but it's not like they are terrible and can't be used. I would hate to lose Gabby or Collier, but we could survive.

how solid that seven really is seems to change on a daily basis which is not unusual for two players in their first season (Z's first season in game situations)

 

[eebmg]

I tend to agree. Maybe Crystal was a little better than Meg, but I think they are fairly similar. As I’m sitting in Clint Eastwood’s restaurant in Carmel-by-the-Sea, I want to paraphrase another tough guy, Jack Palance: “Season ain’t over yet.”

I have stated on this board multiple times that imho, Crystal's freshman season was generally better than MW's as of this moment. I think any fair comparison must include the position they play. Crystal as a true point guard had more responsibility and it is far easier to understand how her freshman season would have ups and downs and how she could be overwhelmed at times. The sheer mental growth needed to be the leader of the team is daunting. Also, since she is undersized, she needed to deal far more with figuring out ways to compete physically and get her shot off etc. Clearly, this motivated her in the off season to get her self so physically strong and to work on increasing the range and consistency of her three point shot well beyond the line to compensate for size. MW has none of these issues except perhaps her own expectations as a #1. Physically as gifted as anyone, her position as of now basically involves intensity, rebounding, defense, fast break baskets and the occasional open 3 etc. I think she is gradually getting better and I hope she will have a significiant impact in the Tournament but as of now, she needs to improve her mindset to attack as if she is the best player on the court and her consistency. It will come but it is not here yet.

 

[HuskyBandDad]

Here's a scenario:
National Title game, game tied, 5 minutes to go in the 4th: Gabby is out because of her hip, Phesse has fouled out.
Geno's Choices:
A) Play 4 players
B) Molly Bent
C) Kyla Irwin
D) Megan Walker

Bet he wished he did a better job to prepare for this, what would you do?

I wouldn't know how to answer such an open ended question....wouldn't it depend on match ups? Is the opposing player a slow 6'3" forward or a quick 5'11" wing? I have no doubts that all of the players are drilled on playing specific positional roles so success would really come down to subs making the right choices on the floor and to some degree skill level...

So you guys assume he does not prepare for these type of scenarios in practice?
You think he only plays the starters together all the time in practice and does not mix in other players?? Really??
You guys think Geno is clueless.

 

[HoopsFan21]

So you guys assume he does not prepare for these type of scenarios in practice?
You think he only plays the starters together all the time in practice and does not mix in other players?? Really??
You guys think Geno is clueless.

I heard Geno has two books upon which he relies: Coaching Basketball for Dummies, and Learn Basketball in 21 Days. This may or may not be true.

 

[meyers7]

Here's a scenario:
National Title game, game tied, 5 minutes to go in the 4th: Gabby is out because of her hip, Phesse has fouled out.
Geno's Choices:
A) Play 4 players
B) Molly Bent
C) Kyla Irwin
D) Megan Walker

Bet he wished he did a better job to prepare for this, what would you do?

1) how often are they ever in that kind of scenario? Usually it's NC game, 5 minutes to play in the 4th, UCONN up by 17-23. The question is usually when does he put in the walk-on. And you get to that point by preparation. Lot's of it.

2) However if your scenario would ever present itself; Dangerfield, Nurse, Samuelson, Walker, Stevens? I'd like our chances.

 

[HuskylnSC]

Here's a scenario:
National Title game, game tied, 5 minutes to go in the 4th: Gabby is out because of her hip, Phesse has fouled out.
Geno's Choices:
A) Play 4 players
B) Molly Bent
C) Kyla Irwin
D) Megan Walker

Bet he wished he did a better job to prepare for this, what would you do?

My choice would be someone like Brianna Pulido, she was unstoppable off the bench in the NC. So based on history it would be Molly Bent!

 

[Charliebball]

So you guys assume he does not prepare for these type of scenarios in practice?
You think he only plays the starters together all the time in practice and does not mix in other players?? Really??
You guys think Geno is clueless.

I'm not sure what part of this statement would make you believe that I think Geno is clueless?

" I have no doubts that all of the players are drilled on playing specific positional roles so success would really come down to subs making the right choices on the floor and to some degree skill level..."

 

[Zanzman]

My choice would be someone like Brianna Pulido, she was unstoppable off the bench in the NC. So based on history it would be Molly Bent!

Gabby wouldn’t be out not a chance in he..

 

[Centerstream]

Here's a scenario:
National Title game, game tied, 5 minutes to go in the 4th: Gabby is out because of her hip, Phesse has fouled out.
Geno's Choices:
A) Play 4 players
B) Molly Bent
C) Kyla Irwin
D) Megan Walker

Bet he wished he did a better job to prepare for this, what would you do?

Is Gabby in a wheelchair? If not, well....

 

[HoopsFan21]

Gabby wouldn’t be out not a chance in he..

She was out against ND. Or at least taken out.