Damar Hamlin in critical condition, cpr needed on the field | Page 5 | The Boneyard

Damar Hamlin in critical condition, cpr needed on the field

nelsonmuntz

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Good lord. Do you have any idea the number of hits to the chest that happen in organized football in a year ? Tens of thousands. One guy - we think - collapses as a result and you're worried that 99.999% effectiveness isn't enough ? We don't know jack right now. Michael Irvin got hurt on a routine play where his head and neck got driven into the turf and he left the game. Then, when they were treating it, they found he had a genetic condition that made him more likely to suffer a neck injury. He retired. There's literally nothing to say, right now, that this isn't a similar situation. Or just a complete freak of nature where all conditions lined up perfectly.

Given that the NFL and really all of football buried CTE for decades, I am less trusting of the NFL.

Just because you like seeing men maim and potentially kill each other for your entertainment doesn't mean we all do.
 
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I agree with this. We obsess about conference realignment and it's all about football but eventually I think the sport will change drastically. The hardest legal hits just aren't fun to watch.

If you step back and think about it, the game requires players to wear helmets. Why? Because your opponent is wearing a helmet. They can penalize targeting but it will always happen because when you tackle, your head with the helmet is the first thing to enter the picture. "Isn't our protective equipment enough?" No, it isn't. Not when big strong fast players are crashing into each other, intentionally. A shoulder with any kind of padding will be enough to cause this kind of tragedy unless they are all wearing iron man armor, but even then, the brain would still get rattled. The nature of the game is just too violent for the human body. As other people have stated, it's suprising we don't see more players carried off, but we do know that the long term damage to these players is severe.
I played football for one year in high school (as a kicker, after switching over from soccer), and I remember exactly two quotes from my football coach:

"Basketball is a contact sport. Football is a collision sport."
"Be the hammer, not the nail."

It is an inherently violent game, and no amount of equipment or rules is going to change that.
 
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Good lord. Do you have any idea the number of hits to the chest that happen in organized football in a year ? Tens of thousands. One guy - we think - collapses as a result and you're worried that 99.999% effectiveness isn't enough ? We don't know jack right now. Michael Irvin got hurt on a routine play where his head and neck got driven into the turf and he left the game. Then, when they were treating it, they found he had a genetic condition that made him more likely to suffer a neck injury. He retired. There's literally nothing to say, right now, that this isn't a similar situation. Or just a complete freak of nature where all conditions lined up perfectly.
It is both the case that 1) this particular type of play was routine, not an unreasonable level of violence or especially noteworthy even compared to other sports, and a guy getting severely injured from it was spectacularly unlucky, and 2) football is inherently a violent and dangerous sport that confers an unreasonable level of injury risk overall (to the head, body, and yes on extremely rare occasions, heart).
 

Edward Sargent

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It is both the case that 1) this particular type of play was routine, not an unreasonable level of violence or especially noteworthy even compared to other sports, and a guy getting severely injured from it was spectacularly unlucky, and 2) football is inherently a violent and dangerous sport that confers an unreasonable level of injury risk overall (to the head, body, and yes on extremely rare occasions, heart).
Totally agree that the play looked to be routine. As a matter of fact Damar hopped up adjusted his helmet and was ready for the next play before he collapsed.
 
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It is both the case that 1) this particular type of play was routine, not an unreasonable level of violence or especially noteworthy even compared to other sports, and a guy getting severely injured from it was spectacularly unlucky, and 2) football is inherently a violent and dangerous sport that confers an unreasonable level of injury risk overall (to the head, body, and yes on extremely rare occasions, heart).
My late husband was always mad at his mom because back in the late 60's and 70's she refused to allow him to play football because it was too dangerous and violent. Guess she was ahead of her time.
 

HuskyHawk

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I agree with this. We obsess about conference realignment and it's all about football but eventually I think the sport will change drastically. The hardest legal hits just aren't fun to watch.

If you step back and think about it, the game requires players to wear helmets. Why? Because your opponent is wearing a helmet. They can penalize targeting but it will always happen because when you tackle, your head with the helmet is the first thing to enter the picture. "Isn't our protective equipment enough?" No, it isn't. Not when big strong fast players are crashing into each other, intentionally. A shoulder with any kind of padding will be enough to cause this kind of tragedy unless they are all wearing iron man armor, but even then, the brain would still get rattled. The nature of the game is just too violent for the human body. As other people have stated, it's suprising we don't see more players carried off, but we do know that the long term damage to these players is severe.
They won't fix it until they apply rules to offense that they apply to defense. Hands to the face for example, WR, TE and RB stiff arm guys in the face all the time. Likewise, WR (like Higgins), RB and TE can "deliver" a blow, including with the helmet, yet this is almost never called on offensive players. They go low with their heads all the time. Simple reality is you can't tackle people this big, strong and fast if they can do what you cannot. Maybe Rugby has it right. Ditch the helmets and pads, and you'd see the game played differently.

 
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I think there a martial arts blow that targets the heart directly that is not supposed to be used because it can be so deadly. Yes, a hard blow to the heart can stop it. As others have said, I've mostly heard of this with little leaguers getting hit by pitches or line drives. Another reason kids should use wooden bats. Aaron Judge can his a ball 125 mph. Imagine if he used an aluminum bat?
 
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Sooooooooooo.. I assume they are waiting to see if he lives? I know that sounds crass...?

I can see them canceling the entire weekend slate and pushing everything a week?

or... they move the game to Tuesday?
 

ClifSpliffy

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Sooooooooooo.. I assume they are waiting to see if he lives? I know that sounds crass...?

I can see them canceling the entire weekend slate and pushing everything a week?

or... they move the game to Tuesday?
as if.
time nor tide waits for no man.

it's in the rulebook. of life.
 

pepband99

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Given that the NFL and really all of football buried CTE for decades, I am less trusting of the NFL.

Just because you like seeing men maim and potentially kill each other for your entertainment doesn't mean we all do.

IANAD, but are you seriously combining a degenerative brain condition, only diagnosed at autopsy, with something that literally caused an absurdly healthy man to drop on the field, like a rock?

I know you're trying to preach your narrative, but this is a stretch, even for you.
 
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I'd never heard of Commotio Cordis prior to last night. It sounds plausible based on the description, but it seems like most cases arise from sports that use a harder, more compact playing instrument (like hockey, baseball, or lacrosse) that pack a greater punch and stun you with a more velocity. A shoulder - especially with all the padding - does not strike me as the type of object that could cause this, and the cases that have occurred on the football field seem to mostly feature younger kids.

With the renewed spread of COVID and other respiratory illnesses and/or preventative measures, I wonder about myocarditis as a contributing factor. My cousin had it a short time ago and was basically told by doctors to stop exercising for a while. If someone had it unknowingly and played through it, could this type of thing happen? I know Hamlin is a tough dude.
 
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Sooooooooooo.. I assume they are waiting to see if he lives? I know that sounds crass...?

I can see them canceling the entire weekend slate and pushing everything a week?

or... they move the game to Tuesday?
There's no way this game gets replayed.
 

nelsonmuntz

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IANAD, but are you seriously combining a degenerative brain condition, only diagnosed at autopsy, with something that literally caused an absurdly healthy man to drop on the field, like a rock?

I know you're trying to preach your narrative, but this is a stretch, even for you.

CTE is a hoax?
 
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Not sure they had a choice, but glad the NFL decided to postpone the game.
 

storrsroars

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Hans Sprungfeld

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CTE is a hoax?
Quite probably not, but you must already know that you posed that question to somebody who meant no such thing.

Given that you've already admirably declined two provocations to, essentially, 'catfight' on, of all things, suck-it-up tough-guy masculinity, it's a genuine puzzle as to why you wouldn't just stand firm on your original ground that the NFL's track record on being forthright and assuming responsibility regarding a certain category of highly-compromising injuries leaves you with a skeptical starting point for assessing this new tragic story.

I don't watch much football anymore, and I've come to expect emotionally impactful stories to elicit a lot of strong & often awkwardly expressed reactions and responses from pretty much any population of American men, let alone big-time sports fans, so the variation in takes and strength of affect has led me to lay back and simply witness how things have unfolded, as speculation builds and more facts come to light.

NFL has as strong a connection to the classic "follow the money" narrative as any competitive entertainment venture in the USA. Two coaches, meeting in mass-audience exposure & real time, jumped a lot of possibilities by deciding, "Yeah, no, we're not doing this. No getting back to playing this game."

That doesn't mean that there weren't or aren't parties who were motivated for things to go differently, and are dealing with a lot of, "What now?"

Then again, your follow-up paragraph in the post that originally presented your POV on football's most controversial subject struck me as extreme & harshly conclusive toward the poster you'd quoted, which, in context, could be considered equally puzzling.
 
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HuskyHawk

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CTE is a hoax?
No, and nothing he said suggested it was. Rather, that it wasn’t a conspiracy, because CTE is only diagnosed in an autopsy and even then only when they are looking for it. More likely that Pop Warner and youth school football contributes to it than playing in the NFL. From a risk-reward perspective one of those isn’t like the other. If you’re worried about it, don’t play youth football or box at a young age.

Concussions, now that’s a different story. We already had a long thread on that.

Heart attacks? That has more to do with the individual than the sport he’s playing. I don’t think football is high risk for cardiac events. Any endurance sport would be higher risk. For Commotio cordis, it’s almost always caused by projectiles, a small dense object impacting at the heart.

 

Dove

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I think there a martial arts blow that targets the heart directly that is not supposed to be used because it can be so deadly. Yes, a hard blow to the heart can stop it. As others have said, I've mostly heard of this with little leaguers getting hit by pitches or line drives. Another reason kids should use wooden bats. Aaron Judge can his a ball 125 mph. Imagine if he used an aluminum bat?
Its called the five point palm exploding heart technique.
 

Edward Sargent

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Morning Joe had Chris Pronger (NHL HoF Defenseman) on this morning to talk about his adventure with commotio cordis. He took a slap shot to the sternum and after a few seconds collapsed. Chris did not did not stop breathing and did not go into cardiac arrest but it stopped his heart rhythm long enough for him to pass out. He apparently took a series of tests, wore a heart monitor for 24 hours and was cleared to rejoin the team after two days. He readily admits that Damar's case is far more severe but he was very hopeful for his full recovery. Pronger was a good interview.
 

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