Conference Re-alignment Bombshell

[pick6s]

I think you're being a little hard on Kansas in football. As recently as 2009 they were really really good until Mangino was fired then Turner Gill was hired which became Bob Diaco times two. In 2008 they were ranked as high as #2 in the country. Their victory over Texas last fall was a major reason Charlie Strong was fired. In 07, 08, or 09 Kansas beat Virginia Tech on the Orange Bowl.
I also think the Big Ten would give UCONN a pass in Football with the hiring of HCRE and his promising staff.

Kansas has had a winning record in only three seasons since 1996. They have eight straight losing seasons. They suck at football.

Also, nobody is going to give UConn a pass in football due to the Edsall hiring.

 

[CardiffGiant]

They are willing to play UConn, as they may have a chance to win for now, but they don't want UConn in the ACC. Once UConn football gets to where it needs to be, they will not want to play UConn anymore and their fear of UConn will go back to the way it was before. I believe that, as far as this thread goes, there are still too many no votes for UConn in the ACC.

Other than FSU and Clemson, who else would be the No votes at this point based on history?

 

[billybud]

Other than FSU and Clemson, who else would be the No votes at this point based on history?

Clemson and FSU would have Louisville, Miami, and GT with them if they wanted to vote "No". Louisville would remember their debt.

Jurich said that U of L's biggest ACC advocates during this process were Florida State (the biggest), Clemson and Syracuse.

But the times are different...football has been augmented, the conference is stable...and the absolute crushing need to improve football is no longer the primary mandate.

The main negotiating points would be divisions and scheduling...Clemson and FSU have no desire to add travel to Connecticut on top of Syracuse and Boston.

 

[buddy]

You can add BC and Cuse to the list of "no" votes. Therefore, UConn to ACC is not happening. All of the other speculation has no basis in reality. As disgusting as he may be, the above poster is likely correct in this matter.

 

[btstimpy]

The military academies have already pledged to each other that none of them will join a power conference.

Do you have a source for this? That's an important data point with P5 possibly separating to new NCAA division over time.

 

[CardiffGiant]

You can add BC and Cuse to the list of "no" votes. Therefore, UConn to ACC is not happening. All of the other speculation has no basis in reality. As disgusting as he may be, the above poster is likely correct in this matter.

Wow. That is worse than I thought. Did not think that Syr would be a no, especially since they could conceivably divide into northern and southern divisions, which would lessen the travel problem somewhat. It is hard to believe that we essentially have no shot to get out of this conference.

 

[btstimpy]

Clemson and FSU would have Louisville, Miami, and GT with them if they wanted to vote "No". Louisville would remember their debt.

Jurich said that U of L's biggest ACC advocates during this process were Florida State (the biggest), Clemson and Syracuse.

But the times are different...football has been augmented, the conference is stable...and the absolute crushing need to improve football is no longer the primary mandate.

The main negotiating points would be divisions and scheduling...Clemson and FSU have no desire to add travel to Connecticut on top of Syracuse and Boston.

This I agree with. Augmenting football or augmenting basketball are lower priority today than 5 years ago. What will be the priority is what sells the network.

If the ACC adds 2 and UConn is one of the 2, then someone like South Florida offsets that travel concern. Everyone wants another game in Florida. But FSU and Miami would have to sponsor that. USF gets written off by some, but they can help with a lot of stuff too.

UCF does the same, but I see Tampa as more established than Orlando.

 

[junglehusky]

Wow. That is worse than I thought. Did not think that Syr would be a no, especially since they could conceivably divide into northern and southern divisions, which would lessen the travel problem somewhat. It is hard to believe that we essentially have no shot to get out of this conference.

I feel like that's been the prevailing thought on Cuse's motivations for a while now. They didn't have a vote back in 2012 but I recall some reporting that they neither objected to Louisville nor were advocating for UConn. That might not be quite the same thing as actively campaigning against UConn but in the end to us UConn folks the net effect is the same. Now, both Cuse and BC have thawed at least enough to schedule us in FB + MBB. Whether that leads to them wanting us in their conference farther in the future, who knows.​

 

[dayooper]

The partner is an issue for joining the Big Ten, not the ACC. Assuming Texas goes to the PAC 12 (which I believe they will due to pressure from Texas politicians not wanting Texas Tech to get left out of the Power 5), the only real expansion options for the Big Ten are Kansas and UConn. The problem is that both are seen as basketball schools with weak football programs, making it unlikely they get added together. Yes, they previously added Maryland and Rutgers but the landscape has changed since then and adding two bad football schools may not be feasible now. In the end though, if the Big 12 falls apart and the other power conferences expand to 16, the Big Ten might essentially be forced to add UConn and Kansas together because there are no other options (unless they can poach Colorado at the end of the PAC 12's GOR).

In terms of joining the ACC, the accompanying move would be Notre Dame becoming a full member (or UConn could join as a non-football member). I know this thread is about the ACC adding multiple schools from the American but I just don't see the logic in it. As for UConn being admitted as a non-football member, it's an intriguing idea. UConn would clearly add value to the conference in basketball and the ACC wouldn't have to share as much money with UConn as they would if the Huskies joined in football too. As part of the agreement, UConn would become the 16th football school in the ACC if Notre Dame ever joined the conference in that sport.

If ND is your partner, then it will be a long time before you get an invite. ND wants to remain independent and the Big10, Big12 and the SEC don't want to push ND to another conference full time. The ACC seems to be happy with their arrangement.

 

[UC313]

I cant do this again. Its like goin back to your cheating ex-girlfriend. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[CardiffGiant]

I cant do this again. Its like goin back to your cheating ex-girlfriend. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

The trouble is that the current girlfriend is Rosie O'Donnell.

 

[buddy]

It would be too stressful for FSU to travel 2 hours on a plane to Hartford, then 20 minutes by bus to the Rent. Heaven forbid a snowflake hits them. They might melt! ND will not join the ACC in football. This dream is dead. Listen to what our leadership is saying. We are proud members of the AAC and we must succeed in the AAC. Maybe in 10 or 20 years things will change, but for the foreseeable future this is it.

 

[billybud]

It's not air travel as such....UConn could as well be San Francisco or Arizona with air.

It is "distance" and relevance.

Why should an FSU or Clemson desire UConn to be added to the ACC? FSU is a program who's fans are primarily in Florida, with the largest outside the state representation in Atlanta and North Carolina. We have as much to do with Connecticut as UConn has with Los Angeles. And LA is just a hop on a non stop airline from NY.

We already hear rumors that Boston College will eventually join the ACC, One of their fans in Tallahassee would be a sighting about as rare as seeing a carrier pigeon.

Would UConn fans buy rickets and come to Doak Campbell stadium in Tallahassee?

I do not think so..airplanes or not. The USF-FSU games of late have been a great fan rivalry, and they bring 'em as do we.


It is my cornball belief that conferences should be as regional as possible...that the AAC and CUSA will never feel "right" because they are what they are...a conglomeration of programs that have little relevance to each other.

If the ACC goes further northeast, it almost certainly would have to go North-South in Divisions to get some votes.

 

[buddy]

Not to continue this dissertation, but UConn fans travel well...when they want to.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Kansas is awful at football - awful.

They had one great year in 2007 and then went 4-4 in the Big 12 in 2008.

Since then, they're 5-65 in conference.

Kansas has to hope that the Big 12 survives forever. If it doesn't, their future is not in the Big Ten, it's in the American.

KU was decent in my era there too, under Glen Mason (final ranking of #9 in 1995, the year after I graduated). With Snyder out at K State, KU has a good shot to return to respectability.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's not air travel as such....UConn could as well be San Francisco or Arizona with air.

It is "distance" and relevance.

Why should an FSU or Clemson desire UConn to be added to the ACC? FSU is a program who's fans are primarily in Florida, with the largest outside the state representation in Atlanta and North Carolina. We have as much to do with Connecticut as UConn has with Los Angeles. And LA is just a hop on a non stop airline from NY.

We already hear rumors that Boston College will eventually join the ACC, One of their fans in Tallahassee would be a sighting about as rare as seeing a carrier pigeon.

Would UConn fans buy rickets and come to Doak Campbell stadium in Tallahassee?

I do not think so..airplanes or not. The USF-FSU games of late have been a great fan rivalry, and they bring 'em as do we.


It is my cornball belief that conferences should be as regional as possible...that the AAC and CUSA will never feel "right" because they are what they are...a conglomeration of programs that have little relevance to each other.

If the ACC goes further northeast, it almost certainly would have to go North-South in Divisions to get some votes.

You aren't wrong about conferences. But the ACC can't fix this until it can put together a North-South divisional alignment. So would FSU like to see this?

ACC N: UVA, VT, Pitt, BC, Cuse, Louisville, UConn, Cinci
ACC S: FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT, UNC, Duke, NC State, WF

Is it unbalanced for football and basketball? Not really. The south is stronger on the football side, but UL and VT can be a viable alternative. The north is slightly stronger at basketball, but you've still got Duke and NC in the south, plus an improved FSU and Miami.

 

[Adios]

Would UConn fans buy rickets and come to Doak Campbell stadium in Tallahassee?

I do not think so..airplanes or not. The USF-FSU games of late have been a great fan rivalry, and they bring 'em as do we.

You clearly have not paid much attention to how well UConn football fans can travel. How about asking first? Like smart people do.

 

[mavblues]

It's not air travel as such....UConn could as well be San Francisco or Arizona with air.

It is "distance" and relevance.

Why should an FSU or Clemson desire UConn to be added to the ACC? FSU is a program who's fans are primarily in Florida, with the largest outside the state representation in Atlanta and North Carolina. We have as much to do with Connecticut as UConn has with Los Angeles. And LA is just a hop on a non stop airline from NY.

We already hear rumors that Boston College will eventually join the ACC, One of their fans in Tallahassee would be a sighting about as rare as seeing a carrier pigeon.

Would UConn fans buy rickets and come to Doak Campbell stadium in Tallahassee?

I do not think so..airplanes or not. The USF-FSU games of late have been a great fan rivalry, and they bring 'em as do we.


It is my cornball belief that conferences should be as regional as possible...that the AAC and CUSA will never feel "right" because they are what they are...a conglomeration of programs that have little relevance to each other.

If the ACC goes further northeast, it almost certainly would have to go North-South in Divisions to get some votes.

I don't care what anyone says. I'm never buying rickets again.

I would buy tickets to see UConn-FSU, but I learned my lesson about rickets a long time ago. (Don't ask; long story involving a man with a peg leg, a top hat, and a pet giraffe...) Suffice it to say that if a man matching that description offers to sell you rickets, don't do it.

You've been warned.

 

[btstimpy]

I agree. That's UConns issue right now; they don't have a viable partner to join any P5 league. Could Cincinnati be a partner? Not for the Big10 and I think they're a stretch for the ACC. Houston is another possibility, but they are too far for the ACC and don't bring enough money for the Big10. The Florida directional schools don't bring enough and there isn't anybody else that isn't a project.

Cincinnati and Houston aren't good fits for the ACC. Both would be taking the ACC into a region the ACC knows little about, and neither would bring a rivalry with an existing ACC school or another P5 school. Cincinnati's rival is Miami, OH. The P5 in their state is Ohio State, who doesn't view Cincinnati as a rival and barely ever plays Cincinnati. Houston was a great fit for the Big XII, but that group was too dysfunctional to ever see it. Houston is way outside a region the ACC understands. To move into that region, the ACC should only do so with existing Big XII members.

The ACC should stick to Eastern Seaboard states and look for historical rivalries with existing ACC members or SEC/B1G members. The ACC didn't know much about the Northeast when moving into it, but we've been in the northeast a while now learning as we go. Since the B1G doesn't allow rivalries outside the conference for November games, the ACC has done the best it can with Pitt/Penn State, but Pitt also has one with Notre Dame. The ACC already has all of the ones with the SEC along our eastern states.

So I get back to rivals with existing ACC members. UConn with former Big East teams, BC most obvious. West Virginia with VT, Pitt, and Syracuse. Navy with Notre Dame and older ones with Virginia and Pitt. USF in a new one with FSU/Miami. Outside of that there are Temple and East Carolina. We don't need a 5th North Carolina team, and I'm not sure who Temple's Rival is? Maybe they can have one with Rutgers?

 

[History Geek]

Are those arguing against Cincy to the ACC forgetting that Louisville is already there? That eliminates the "too far west" and "not a good enough school" arguments.

 

[btstimpy]

Are those arguing against Cincy to the ACC forgetting that Louisville is already there? That eliminates the "too far west" and "not a good enough school" arguments.

The ACC, and ESPN for obvious reasons, is very interested in adding intense ACC vs SEC rivalries for football, basketball, and baseball. Louisville brought one with Kentucky. Basketball was immediate. Football and baseball are being worked on. We shouldn't keep going back to Louisville. They aren't a choice.

Other possibilities are Tulane with LSU for the battle of the RAG, but that would would require a project. Texas with Texas A&M is one. But that is an entire can of worms. I don't think Tennessee pays attention to Memphis.

As for Cincinnati, who is their Big Ten Rival? We know they don't have one with any SEC. Maybe little ones with Louisville and Pittsburgh? Do they at least have one with Notre Dame? I'm not sure they have ever played. I think there are other options much better.

 

[traitor71]

Clemson and FSU would have Louisville, Miami, and GT with them if they wanted to vote "No". Louisville would remember their debt.

Jurich said that U of L's biggest ACC advocates during this process were Florida State (the biggest), Clemson and Syracuse.

But the times are different...football has been augmented, the conference is stable...and the absolute crushing need to improve football is no longer the primary mandate.

The main negotiating points would be divisions and scheduling...Clemson and FSU have no desire to add travel to Connecticut on top of Syracuse and Boston.

I'm not so sure on Miami. Shalala is gone and things are a lot different down here now. I think if it can be shown to be good for the league, they would be on board with it.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Cincinnati's rival is Miami, OH.?

That's a bit of a stretch. Yes, in football it's a trophy game, but Cinci has won the last 11. Strangely, where it would matter more in hockey, Cinci doesn't play Miami.

Ohio State only plays Cinci for recruiting purposes. They would throw a tantrum if the Big Ten were to consider Cinci.

Not sure if I'm making your point or countering it, but I wanted to address the "rivalry" thing.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Are those arguing against Cincy to the ACC forgetting that Louisville is already there? That eliminates the "too far west" and "not a good enough school" arguments.

Yeah, at 6 hours and 13 minutes from its closest neighbor, Virginia Tech, Louisville was uncharted territory.

Distance from Louisville to ACC schools

 

[btstimpy]

That's a bit of a stretch. Yes, in football it's a trophy game, but Cinci has won the last 11. Strangely, where it would matter more in hockey, Cinci doesn't play Miami.

Ohio State only plays Cinci for recruiting purposes. They would throw a tantrum if the Big Ten were to consider Cinci.

Not sure if I'm making your point or countering it, but I wanted to address the "rivalry" thing.

My whole point is the rivalry thing. And to a degree it is consistent with what Billy Bud is saying about teams so far away none of the local fans care.

After being involved with this Conference Realignment thing for 15 years now with the ACC, when expanding it is important to forge great regional rivals. The idea of sprawling all over the country may look good for television, but it creates match ups that bore the fans to tears. Attendance at stadiums drop, and when people in the stands suffers, the television audience looks elsewhere as well.

Right now in our conference Boston College needs a regional rival despite their former AD not thinking so. They are trying to make it Syracuse, but I think UConn would be much better for BC. I also think West Virginia is missed by Pitt, VT, and Syracuse. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I don't know how things developed over time in Ohio, but for Ohio State to not have any rival within Ohio despite 7 other FBS football schools in the state is baffling. I don't know of any other example like it. Cincinnati is caught up in that, but the ACC can't solve it.