Conference Re-alignment Bombshell

[History Geek]

I like this one better:

Pod A: Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and ISU
Pod B: Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern and Illinois
Pod C: Purdue, Indiana, MSU, Michigan and OSU
Pod D: PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, UConn and WVU

Yes, I know WVU has as good of a shot of being in the Big10 as Liberty, but I couldn't think of a better school that quickly. Same with ISU.

And send this one to Delany.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

The main problem for USF is they're not good at anything. They're an abomination in basketball and at best mediocre in football. Add that they're a large commuter school with weak academics in an area the ACC already has a footprint = they aren't going to the ACC.

 

[billybud]

Been talked about....rotating divisions....hasn't gotten any traction.

Not much support from traditionalists....the southern programs wouldn't mind a North-South Division split...but the northern schools squeal every time that is brought up. Regionalism makes all sort of rivalry sense to me.

You can bet, that if there is a move to go further to the northeast, that the southern schools will want a North-South divisional split.

Every faction has its agenda....The Tobacco Road group like having Duke, UNC, Virginia together without FSU and Clemson and don't want to split it differently.

Georgia Tech likes the Tobacco Road division it is in and counts Duke and UNC as major football rivals.

FSU and Clemson aren't enamored about travelling to Boston and Syracuse, you never see their fans in the return game, and these far flung opponents have little chance of becoming a rivalry.

None of the programs want to be locked out of playing one of Miami and FSU for the perceived recruiting benefits of playing in Florida.

The Virginia contingent may (I do not know this) want to keep VT and Virginia in the same division.

Every talk about division structure at the ACC meetings ends up a stalemate.

Put FSU, Miami, and Clemson in the same group (as they should be in a North-South) and you may effectively create a football conference and a basketball conference, both housed in the ACC.

And, then there is Notre Dame hanging about like the spectre of Christmas Future...and everybody wants them on the schedule.

 

[btstimpy]

1. Navy - Not sure Navy wants to up to the P5, they just don't have the size to. I thought there was a rule that the Naval Academy recruits had to be under a certain size. I could be wrong or that has changed, but if that's still in place, than it's a deal breaker. I understand why ND may want them in there, but isn't there some sort of rule that they can't include BC as one of the five ACC games every year? Could be wrong on that?
2. UConn - No Brainer.
3. USF - Why? They already have a great hold on the state of Florida with FSU and, to a lesser extent, Miami. What does USF give the ACC that the other two don't.
4. Temple - I can sorta see it, but with Pitt already in the fold and if you get UConn it would be a little redundant.

Look up flight times for Tallahassee, Miami, Atlanta, and Greenville to Tampa versus any of those places to Philadelphia. You will answer your own question. Plus 10 percent population growth and 50,000 students. As much as Ohio State.

 

[billybud]

From the 2015 ACC spring meeting:


The easy answer is to add another conference game. But athletic directors voted last year to stay at eight, continuing the scheduling conundrum. With eight games in place, two ideas have been discussed more than the others: eliminating divisions and eliminating permanent crossover opponents.

There is no traction to get rid of the division format. So scratch that.

Eliminating permanent crossover opponents is a bit trickier. Some of the most traditional rivalry games in the ACC happen between teams in separate divisions. Getting rid of Miami-Florida State, and NC State-North Carolina are nonstarters.

But Swofford did say one scheduling model they have looked at would try to keep all traditional rivalry games within the same division, allowing for the elimination of the permanent crossover opponent. To do that, divisions would have to be reshuffled.

There is no traction for that yet, either.

Swofford said...
"Different people will make different assumptions about people that have to play each other every year."

 

[dayooper]

Been talked about....rotating divisions....hasn't gotten any traction.

Not much support from traditionalists....the southern programs wouldn't mind a North-South Division split...but the northern schools squeal every time that is brought up. Regionalism makes all sort of rivalry sense to me.

You can bet, that if there is a move to go further to the northeast, that the southern schools will want a North-South divisional split.

Every faction has its agenda....The Tobacco Road group like having Duke, UNC, Virginia together without FSU and Clemson and don't want to split it differently.

Georgia Tech likes the Tobacco Road division it is in and counts Duke and UNC as major football rivals.

FSU and Clemson aren't enamored about travelling to Boston and Syracuse, you never see their fans in the return game, and these far flung opponents have little chance of becoming a rivalry.

None of the programs want to be locked out of playing one of Miami and FSU for the perceived recruiting benefits of playing in Florida.

The Virginia contingent may (I do not know this) want to keep VT and Virginia in the same division.

Every talk about division structure at the ACC meetings ends up a stalemate.

Put FSU, Miami, and Clemson in the same group (as they should be in a North-South) and you may effectively create a football conference and a basketball conference, both housed in the ACC.

And, then there is Notre Dame hanging about like the spectre of Christmas Future...and everybody wants them on the schedule.

I agree with all of it and, as a fan, it makes perfect sense. Yet, do the university presidents fell the same way? Was it in the conferences best interest to take a falling Syracuse to get Miami? My guess is it was, but how many fans of southern schools except for Miami were interested in Syracuse? How many fans loved the fact that Virginia's legislature strong armed the ACC to get VT into the ACC? Sometimes the needs of the university/conference as a whole outweighs the needs of the individual athletic programs. I don't know the breaking point for the ACC (or any conference for that matter), but there is one.

 

[megadrone]

Only one that makes sense is UCONN, reviving old rivalries in football and especially basketball with BC, Syracuse, and Pitt, would generate a lot of interest on several levels in all the major Northeast markets.

What football rivalries? The only school from the Big East that UConn played somewhat regularly before 2000 was Rutgers, and even that was on hiatus for nearly 20 years.

 

[billybud]

Yep...I don't think that the Big Ten Ohio State, Michigan, MSU fans were salivating about adding Rutgers.

My assumption is that a conference will do that which its media consultants say has a bigger pay off.


However, sometimes, as when FSU, Clemson, GT and Miami banded together to defeat Tobacco Road and add Louisville, the schools can override the conference.

 

[btstimpy]

Yep...I don't think that the Big Ten Ohio State, Michigan, MSU fans were salivating about adding Rutgers.

My assumption is that a conference will do that which its media consultants say has a bigger pay off.


However, sometimes, as when FSU, Clemson, GT and Miami banded together to defeat Tobacco Road and add Louisville, the schools can override the conference.

Billy, Louisville has basketball. Tobacco Road doesn't feel overrided.

 

[btstimpy]

ACC has footprint in Florida. i'm not sure we do in Tampa. ACC has footprint in New York. Do we in New York City?

 

[huskyrob1]

What football rivalries? The only school from the Big East that UConn played somewhat regularly before 2000 was Rutgers, and even that was on hiatus for nearly 20 years.

First of all I SAID ESPECIALLY BASKETBALL!!!! CAN YOU READ???
BEFORE 2000??? WHY? FOOTBALL WAS MORE IMPORTANT BEFORE THE BICENTENNIAL???? AND IF YOU DON'T RECALL A BUDDING FOOTBALL RIVALRY POST 2000 BETWEEN BC AND UCONN before the ACC raid, then you must have had your head in the sand. We also played Pitt and Syracuse in some memorable contests. Like the 2OT win over Pitt.

 

[billybud]

Billy, Louisville has basketball. Tobacco Road doesn't feel overrided.

Yeah...but K and Williams wanted UConn.

 

[dayooper]

ACC has footprint in Florida. i'm not sure we do in Tampa. ACC has footprint in New York. Do we in New York City?

I don't think USF would give you that much better of a hold on Tampa. I know it's not the best representative of fandom, but the NY Times map doesn't even have USF in the top three for Tampa/St. Petersburg/Clearwater. It's Florida and FSU with at about 25% each with others (Miami, OSU etc) about 7%. I guess they could, but I'm of the opinion they don't. I think FSU and Miami give you enough.

There is no college team that can totally capture NYC. It's a hodge podge of schools with Syracuse, ND, Michigan, PSU, Rutgers, UConn, Florida and even Oregon represented. So many people move there from other areas and bring their fandom with them, Temple doesn't even register. With PSU such a presence in Philly, Temple barely registers.

UConn is the last true available piece left in the NYC/NE corridor. Temple, UMass, Buffalo and, if they ever build their football program to compete in FBS, Villanova could all be considered, but they are much more of a work in progress than UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers and BC were/are. If the ACC wants a greater foothold in NYC, the only consideration is UConn.

 

[btstimpy]

I don't think USF would give you that much better of a hold on Tampa. I know it's not the best representative of fandom, but the NY Times map doesn't even have USF in the top three for Tampa/St. Petersburg/Clearwater. It's Florida and FSU with at about 25% each with others (Miami, OSU etc) about 7%. I guess they could, but I'm of the opinion they don't. I think FSU and Miami give you enough.

There is no college team that can totally capture NYC. It's a hodge podge of schools with Syracuse, ND, Michigan, PSU, Rutgers, UConn, Florida and even Oregon represented. So many people move there from other areas and bring their fandom with them, Temple doesn't even register. With PSU such a presence in Philly, Temple barely registers.

UConn is the last true available piece left in the NYC/NE corridor. Temple, UMass, Buffalo and, if they ever build their football program to compete in FBS, Villanova could all be considered, but they are much more of a work in progress than UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers and BC were/are. If the ACC wants a greater foothold in NYC, the only consideration is UConn.

Dayooper, I agree UConn is best available choice in the North. But the ACC isn't just North

Billy can tell you if USF is worthless.

 

[dayooper]

Dayooper, I agree UConn is best available choice in the North. But the ACC isn't just North

Billy can tell you if USF is worthless.

I agree. That's UConns issue right now; they don't have a viable partner to join any P5 league. Could Cincinnati be a partner? Not for the Big10 and I think they're a stretch for the ACC. Houston is another possibility, but they are too far for the ACC and don't bring enough money for the Big10. The Florida directional schools don't bring enough and there isn't anybody else that isn't a project.

 

[pick6s]

I agree. That's UConns issue right now; they don't have a viable partner to join any P5 league. Could Cincinnati be a partner? Not for the Big10 and I think they're a stretch for the ACC. Houston is another possibility, but they are too far for the ACC and don't bring enough money for the Big10. The Florida directional schools don't bring enough and there isn't anybody else that isn't a project.

The partner is an issue for joining the Big Ten, not the ACC. Assuming Texas goes to the PAC 12 (which I believe they will due to pressure from Texas politicians not wanting Texas Tech to get left out of the Power 5), the only real expansion options for the Big Ten are Kansas and UConn. The problem is that both are seen as basketball schools with weak football programs, making it unlikely they get added together. Yes, they previously added Maryland and Rutgers but the landscape has changed since then and adding two bad football schools may not be feasible now. In the end though, if the Big 12 falls apart and the other power conferences expand to 16, the Big Ten might essentially be forced to add UConn and Kansas together because there are no other options (unless they can poach Colorado at the end of the PAC 12's GOR).

In terms of joining the ACC, the accompanying move would be Notre Dame becoming a full member (or UConn could join as a non-football member). I know this thread is about the ACC adding multiple schools from the American but I just don't see the logic in it. As for UConn being admitted as a non-football member, it's an intriguing idea. UConn would clearly add value to the conference in basketball and the ACC wouldn't have to share as much money with UConn as they would if the Huskies joined in football too. As part of the agreement, UConn would become the 16th football school in the ACC if Notre Dame ever joined the conference in that sport.

 

[junglehusky]

UConn's partner for joining the Big Ten would be Kansas.

Yeah, why not...

 

[huskyrob1]

The partner is an issue for joining the Big Ten, not the ACC. Assuming Texas goes to the PAC 12 (which I believe they will due to pressure from Texas politicians not wanting Texas Tech to get left out of the Power 5), the only real expansion options for the Big Ten are Kansas and UConn. The problem is that both are seen as basketball schools with weak football programs, making it unlikely they get added together. Yes, they previously added Maryland and Rutgers but the landscape has changed since then and adding two bad football schools may not be feasible now. In the end though, if the Big 12 falls apart and the other power conferences expand to 16, the Big Ten might essentially be forced to add UConn and Kansas together because there are no other options (unless they can poach Colorado at the end of the PAC 12's GOR).

In terms of joining the ACC, the accompanying move would be Notre Dame becoming a full member (or UConn could join as a non-football member). I know this thread is about the ACC adding multiple schools from the American but I just don't see the logic in it. As for UConn being admitted as a non-football member, it's an intriguing idea. UConn would clearly add value to the conference in basketball and the ACC wouldn't have to share as much money with UConn as they would if the Huskies joined in football too. As part of the agreement, UConn would become the 16th football school in the ACC if Notre Dame ever joined the conference in that sport.

I think you're being a little hard on Kansas in football. As recently as 2009 they were really really good until Mangino was fired then Turner Gill was hired which became Bob Diaco times two. In 2008 they were ranked as high as #2 in the country. Their victory over Texas last fall was a major reason Charlie Strong was fired. In 07, 08, or 09 Kansas beat Virginia Tech on the Orange Bowl.
I also think the Big Ten would give UCONN a pass in Football with the hiring of HCRE and his promising staff.

 

[Fishy]

Kansas is awful at football - awful.

They had one great year in 2007 and then went 4-4 in the Big 12 in 2008.

Since then, they're 5-65 in conference.

Kansas has to hope that the Big 12 survives forever. If it doesn't, their future is not in the Big Ten, it's in the American.

 

[shizzle787]

1. Navy - Not sure Navy wants to up to the P5, they just don't have the size to. I thought there was a rule that the Naval Academy recruits had to be under a certain size. I could be wrong or that has changed, but if that's still in place, than it's a deal breaker. I understand why ND may want them in there, but isn't there some sort of rule that they can't include BC as one of the five ACC games every year? Could be wrong on that?
2. UConn - No Brainer.
3. USF - Why? They already have a great hold on the state of Florida with FSU and, to a lesser extent, Miami. What does USF give the ACC that the other two don't.
4. Temple - I can sorta see it, but with Pitt already in the fold and if you get UConn it would be a little redundant.

The military academies have already pledged to each other that none of them will join a power conference.

 

[megadrone]

First of all I SAID ESPECIALLY BASKETBALL!!!! CAN YOU READ???
BEFORE 2000??? WHY? FOOTBALL WAS MORE IMPORTANT BEFORE THE BICENTENNIAL???? AND IF YOU DON'T RECALL A BUDDING FOOTBALL RIVALRY POST 2000 BETWEEN BC AND UCONN before the ACC raid, then you must have had your head in the sand. We also played Pitt and Syracuse in some memorable contests. Like the 2OT win over Pitt.

And basketball matters to the Big East. And that's it.
And football matters everywhere else.
And the biggest opposition that UConn faces to ACC expansion (outside of ESPN cost-cutting) is Clemson, FSU and BC. 2 football schools and one who doesn't want UConn in its backyard that UConn hasn't ever beaten in football.

The best football rivalries that UConn has at the 1A level are Rutgers (no future games currently scheduled) and UMass. Neither of those schools are in the ACC.

 

[shizzle787]

And basketball matters to the Big East. And that's it.
And football matters everywhere else.
And the biggest opposition that UConn faces to ACC expansion (outside of ESPN cost-cutting) is Clemson, FSU and BC. 2 football schools and one who doesn't want UConn in its backyard that UConn hasn't ever beaten in football.

The best football rivalries that UConn has at the 1A level are Rutgers (no future games currently scheduled) and UMass. Neither of those schools are in the ACC.

BC has changed their mind recently I believe. There has been a thaw in relations.

 

[huskyrob1]

Kansas is awful at football - awful.

They had one great year in 2007 and then went 4-4 in the Big 12 in 2008.

Since then, they're 5-65 in conference.

Kansas has to hope that the Big 12 survives forever. If it doesn't, their future is not in the Big Ten, it's in the American.

Since then, yes they stink, but they're no worse than Rutgers or BC, and light years better in basketball. My main point was that coaching matters, people didn't agree with Mangino and his methods but he did turn that program around in one year, and just as fast when he was canned and they hired Turner Gill, Kansas football fell off the cliff again. Let's hope coaching also matters with HCRE too.

 

[huskyrob1]

And basketball matters to the Big East. And that's it.
And football matters everywhere else.
And the biggest opposition that UConn faces to ACC expansion (outside of ESPN cost-cutting) is Clemson, FSU and BC. 2 football schools and one who doesn't want UConn in its backyard that UConn hasn't ever beaten in football.

The best football rivalries that UConn has at the 1A level are Rutgers (no future games currently scheduled) and UMass. Neither of those schools are in the ACC.

Ok genius, then how come BC is on our schedule this Fall????

 

[buddy]

They are willing to play UConn, as they may have a chance to win for now, but they don't want UConn in the ACC. Once UConn football gets to where it needs to be, they will not want to play UConn anymore and their fear of UConn will go back to the way it was before. I believe that, as far as this thread goes, there are still too many no votes for UConn in the ACC.