Caron Butler on how former players view UConn | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Caron Butler on how former players view UConn

Dave Carlson said:
It is possible that former players, having been in the business, might have their own views of what is serious misconduct by a college basketball head coach and might not think using an outside trainer, having an unsanctioned shootaround and facilitating a phone call between a recruit and Ray Allen are fireable offenses. Obviously, that behavior was shocking to David Benedict, coming as he did from Auburn University where Bruce Pearl is famously a stickler for NCAA rules compliance, but some players may not view things from the same pristine perspective.
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How do they feel about paying for illegal (in the NCAA sense) travel, illegal meals and illegal lodging for players to attend illegal practice with an illegal coach? Are they okay with lying to their bosses and to the NCAA?

Just curious.
 
CL82 said:
How do they feel about paying for illegal (in the NCAA sense) travel, illegal meals and illegal lodging for players to attend illegal practice with an illegal coach? Are they okay with lying to their bosses and to the NCAA?

Just curious.
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I'm narrowing it down. If you're not a UCONN official or lawyer, you're a cop. Maybe the IRS.
 
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CL82 said:
How do they feel about paying for illegal (in the NCAA sense) travel, illegal meals and illegal lodging for players to attend illegal practice with an illegal coach? Are they okay with lying to their bosses and to the NCAA?

Just curious.
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I'd be willing to bet most former and current D1 players, especially those with NBA aspirations (realistic or not), view the current system and prior iterations of it as absurd and have absolutely no issue with any of their peers getting anything "illegal" out of it that helps them out financially or professionally.
 
I wonder if Caron has talked to his father figure Calhoun about this...since this grievance isn't just Ollie vs. UConn but also Ollie vs. UConn and Calhoun since Ollie's side has tried to bring up Calhoun's misgivings into this.
 
CL82 said:
How do they feel about paying for illegal (in the NCAA sense) travel, illegal meals and illegal lodging for players to attend illegal practice with an illegal coach? Are they okay with lying to their bosses and to the NCAA?

Just curious.
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I'm sure they would be absolutely outraged that such baseness besmirched their blessed and ever-chaste alma mater and would demand nothing less than swift and absolute justice be visited upon the villain who would author such misdeeds.

Are you seven years old?
 
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freescooter said:
In the real world you need to pick your battles. In this case we had a coach who was violating NCAA rules to the extent that he is effectively banned for 3 years, and he was doing a bad job on top of that. In such a case the university was unwilling to go into battle with the NCAA. In effect it chose to save itself from serious penalties and got rid of the source. Not so different from what an NBA team might do if it had say a former all star now past his prime who was reduced to a bench guy and got caught in s domestic violence thing let’s say. Guy is now more trouble than he is worth so they would likely cut him and try mightily to avoid paying him a full contract. On the other hand if it happened to their shiny 1st round pick they might well take steps to get him back as soon as possible. Counseling, pr support, and so forth. If he is good enough they will even accept some negative publicity. If not they won’t.
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The show cause was for mot being forthcoming with the NCAA - if he had been up.front I doubt the violations themselves would have warranted it.
 
freescooter said:
The other note here is that Caron was a former criminal who no major program would touch. Had Calhoun and the UConn admissions folks not looked past his past so to speak he might well have spent his career in Turkey or Latvia or someplace rather than the NBA.
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Dont even know what to say to this - because he has a juvenile record his opinion doesn't count? Are you crazy? He has been more appreciative of Calhoun and UConn than many other players because of that. So to me his being upset with UConn means more than Ray. He knows that second chances and forgiveness is what led to his success.
 
Kathy said:
The show cause was for mot being forthcoming with the NCAA - if he had been up.front I doubt the violations themselves would have warranted it.
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So? Look, i'm not defending anything freescooter has written ever. If he had been up front, maybe he'd still be coaching UConn today. But he wasn't.
 
Kathy said:
They still would have fired him - for the real reason- he was losing.
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You don't know that. We'll never know that. But we do know that if he was fired without violations, he would have been paid. Because the contract stipulates it.

If we're going to fabricate facts to prove a point, then was really fired Ollie because he arranged for payment to multiple players. Benedict couldn't say that because it would have been even more damaging to the program. But that was the real reason. I know because we're allowed to make up facts.
 
Dave Carlson said:
I'm sure they would be absolutely outraged that such baseness besmirched their blessed and ever-chaste alma mater and would demand nothing less than swift and absolute justice be visited upon the villain who would author such misdeeds.

Are you seven years old?
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So your world view is everyone cheats and thus no sanction is ever justified? Just wondering.
 
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The argument is over money, and everyone defending Ollie is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.
 
WingU-Conn said:
You don't know that. We'll never know that. But we do know that if he was fired without violations, he would have been paid. Because the contract stipulates it.

If we're going to fabricate facts to prove a point, then was really fired Ollie because he arranged for payment to multiple players. Benedict couldn't say that because it would have been even more damaging to the program. But that was the real reason. I know because we're allowed to make up facts.
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Please - Calhoun was courting Hurley all season - KO just gave them a better reason and an out on paying.
 
Kathy said:
They still would have fired him - for the real reason- he was losing.
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Maybe and then he would be owed for the remainder of the contract. Sadly, for Kevin at least, he did cheat, in violation of his contract, and he did lie about it to both his employers and the NCAA, also in violation of his contract, and thus his contract terminated and he's isn't entitled to any payment under it.

I love how people obsess on an imagined "real reason for firing KO" instead of his proven breach of his contract.
 
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freescooter said:
The other note here is that Caron was a former criminal who no major program would touch. Had Calhoun and the UConn admissions folks not looked past his past so to speak he might well have spent his career in Turkey or Latvia or someplace rather than the NBA.
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What an awful post. Caron is one of the best people in and out of sports. You really have no business bringing up what went on in his life when he was a little kid.
 
WingU-Conn said:
The argument is over money, and everyone defending Ollie is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.
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Most people aren't defending Ollie. They are saying the school handled it incorrectly. There's a big difference there.
 
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WingU-Conn said:
Wait.

So they don't owe him the money then?

Make up your mind.
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I think they do owe him - had he been winning they would have stood by him like they did with Calhoun - he was fired because he lost so yeah they owe him.
 
WingU-Conn said:
The argument is over money, and everyone defending Ollie is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.
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Checkmate.
 
KO couldn't win in the AAC and Dan Hurley hasn't won in the AAC - why? Because neither can recruit the players they thought they needed rather than recruit players for the AAC.
Dan Hurley gets the advantage of the NBE, KO didn't
KO should have been let go for the record in the past few years and in reality IF UConn had not gotten into the NBE and Dan Hurley kept recruiting like he and KO have, he would have similar results.
Now in the NBE a better brand of player - those bigger and stronger - will look closer at UConn - that is fantastic and a good thing for the program
What happened between JC and KO is not all in the open so to speculate is nonsense
IF KO was a total DB (like many here speculate him to be) I honestly don't think so many ex players and friends would feel about him the way they do. It's telling that 90% of ex players, people who are very close to the program through involvement above the level of fan and friends felt he got a raw deal while 90% here feel the exact opposite
I applaud Caron for speaking his mind but It's history now
There's a lot of explayers out there who mean so much to UConn and have so much to offer - it's a shame - Dan Hurley/staff and the administration have a heavy fence building effort in front of them if they feel these people have a legitimate voice and DEEP pockets - I can't speak for the staff or admin - maybe they don't care
 
freescooter said:
Drug dealer at 15. In juvenile detention at 15. Turned his life around but they don’t put you in juice as a rewsrd
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Yeah I know - I read his book. So once a criminal always a criminal? A kid can't turn his life around? Glad JC didn't see it that way. And because he was in juvie at 15 he has no right to speak out now?
Talk about an elitist view.
 
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Dooooooomed said:
Best to Worst:

1. Winning and Not Cheating
2. Winning and Cheating
3. Not Winning and Not Cheating
4. Not Winning and Cheating

The previous regime was the absolute worst.
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Please define cheating that helped bring in a significant recruit, helped a player stay in school or gave UConn an advantage
Recently UConn self reported 28 violations, which were tied to the previous "regime"?
Fishing for likes
 
Kathy said:
Yeah I know - I read his book. So once a criminal always a criminal? A kid can't turn his life around? Glad JC didn't see it that way. And because he was in juvie at 15 he has no right to speak out now?
Talk about an elitist view.
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Kathy - don't waste the energy
I can't read what he wrote but I can only imagine
 
gtcam said:
Kathy - don't waste the energy
I can't read what he wrote but I can only imagine
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Just a sore spot - I spent 26 years working with kids like Caron - some with positive outcomes, some not. Caron's story was inspiring to some of them - showed they could turn things around and leave that life behind. When someone dismisses a man for what he did as a kid just sets me off.
 
Kathy said:
Yeah I know - I read his book. So once a criminal always a criminal? A kid can't turn his life around? Glad JC didn't see it that way. And because he was in juvie at 15 he has no right to speak out now?
Talk about an elitist view.
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Kathy,

This is Freescooter. This is what he does. Not a happy camper. Consider yourself fortunate to live your life through a happier set of eyes.

Caron's story is a fantastic one, and of course I get that he would back another player in Ollie. I wouldn't expect anything less.

Caron's is not a story to poke at, it's a truly great one. Literally one of the best, and an important part of Jim Calhoun's legacy.

Boy did we have it good back in the day. From nothing to a truly storied program.

Don't let Freescooter bother you a bit, that's his schtick.
 
Kathy said:
Please - Calhoun was courting Hurley all season - KO just gave them a better reason and an out on paying.
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Kathy said:
I think they do owe him - had he been winning they would have stood by him like they did with Calhoun - he was fired because he lost so yeah they owe him.
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So to paraphrase your argument.

Kevin Ollie breached his contract. UConn didn't "really" fire him for breach of contract. So UConn should pay him, even though he breached his contract.

That's a really, really, really bizarre take. Stop thinking with your heart and use your head. Sorry, not sorry.

Does a contract mean nothing?

Edit...

I honestly think what you mean to say is: "I think they should pay him"

Which is very different than: "I think they owe him".

The former is an opinion. I happen to think they should pay him something to make this go away, but we have no idea if he'll accept less than $10mm.

The latter can be proven false by your admission that he breached his contract. So by your own words, no, they don't "owe" him.
 
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Dave Carlson said:
I'm sure they would be absolutely outraged that such baseness besmirched their blessed and ever-chaste alma mater and would demand nothing less than swift and absolute justice be visited upon the villain who would author such misdeeds.

Are you seven years old?
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These are things you get penalized for. Is that hard to comprehend? Ollie didn't get a 3 Year Show Cause for no reason. There is being a compassionate fan, I get that. But turning a blind eye to the ramifications, isn't helpful. I think we are still technically on probation this year and down one scholarship.

If these are things that have negative disciplinary consequences, don't they invoke the "for cause" provision in the contract? It's nice to back Ollie on this, but the foundation of any arguments he may have are tenuous at best.

Btw, your posts are funny. Even if I see things differently.
 
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