Caron Butler on how former players view UConn

[Husky25]

Maybe and then he would be owed for the remainder of the contract. Sadly, for Kevin at least, he did cheat, in violation of his contract, and he did lie about it to both his employers and the NCAA, also in violation of his contract, and thus his contract terminated and he's isn't entitled to any payment under it.

I love how people obsess on an imagined "real reason for firing KO" instead of his proven breach of his contract.

I don't understand the disconnect.

UConn may have very well, deep down in places places they don't talk about at parties (this is in all actuality exactly what boosters talk about at parties), wanted to fire Ollie over wins and losses and even if the money was quite the obstacle, they were prepared to do just that. However, Ollie gave them a reason and a substantiated legal argument to not buy him out.

Ethical? Moral? It's a gray area. Legally? Seems far more black and white.

Take the money out of it and think about your respective daily lives. A great deal of us probably toe (or cross) the legal line because the action is probably not a big deal according to to our own moral code. Doesn't mean there aren't real consequences.

If I hypothetically drive with my cruise set in the mid 70's, a policeman would be acting within his duties to pull me over, even though my experience indicates they generally look the other way up to a certain amount and I feel comfortably in the clear.

Now suppose the timing is toward the end of the month, they need to meet their quota, and my taillight is out. No way I'm not getting stopped.

 

[Tenspro2002]

What role did Calhoun play in Ollie's divorce?

Clearly KO's ex had an affair with Calhoun.

That would explain everything.

 

[Husky25]

What is the point to this question. Clearly not what was said here.

Clearly it was facetious. The only issue I had with how Calhoun left the program is the timing of his retirement. Yet, it didn't stop UConn from winning a national title less than two years later.

 

[Husky25]

Clearly KO's ex had an affair with Calhoun.

That would explain everything.

Clearly Calhoun owes Ollie $10M.

 

[8893]

If I hypothetically drive with my cruise set in the mid 70's, a policeman would be acting within his duties to pull me over, even though my experience indicates they generally look the other way up to a certain amount and I fee comfortably in the clear.

Now suppose the timing is toward the end of the month, they need to meet their quota, and my taillight is out. No way I'm not getting stopped.

And what if the same officer, hypothetically, either says “Oh, good evening, Coach Calhoun, here’s a warning, please carry on”; or “Mr. Ollie, please step out of the car and place your hands behind your back. You have the right to remain silent...”, depending on who is driving?

 

[Husky25]

And what if the same officer, hypothetically, either says “Oh, good evening, Coach Calhoun, here’s a warning, please carry on”; or “Mr. Ollie, please step out of the car and place your hands behind your back. You have the right to remain silent...”, depending on who is driving?

Transgressor has little to do with the transgression(s), which is why I kept it the same.

 

[Madmannsucks]

And what if the same officer, hypothetically, either says “Oh, good evening, Coach Calhoun, here’s a warning, please carry on”; or “Mr. Ollie, please step out of the car and place your hands behind your back. You have the right to remain silent...”, depending on who is driving?

And THAT is why people are being too dismissive about the discrimination. We can explain it all away. Neither contract allowed for misconduct of any kind. That is how coach JC got dragged into this. To similar scenarios, two people treated vastly different. That will be presented to a jury. I am not saying he was or wasn't, but that is the key here.

 

[superjohn]

And what if the same officer, hypothetically, either says “Oh, good evening, Coach Calhoun, here’s a warning, please carry on”; or “Mr. Ollie, please step out of the car and place your hands behind your back. You have the right to remain silent...”, depending on who is driving?

And there it is. Please don't do this.

 

[Huskybass]

Clearly Calhoun and Ollie were treated differently. But the honest take is that it was based on success and performance, not on any discrimination.

Add to that the fact the UConn had recently come off probation and it is highly likely that UConn needed to run a tighter ship, hence a zero tolerance policy on infractions.

I still think KO has a terrible case from a legal standpoint, but the case does have some settlement value in order to put this saga in the past.

 

[Captbluefin]

KO had a job. He was failing miserably at his job. If he did his job he would still be here regardless.

JC had a job and did his job. Hence why he got to stay as long as he wanted.

If KO did not let 2014 get to his head and worked his but off to capitalize on his success recruiting and preparing and coaching his team he would have never been in his situation.

Its a pretty cut and dry situation. He failed to do his job. He also committed violations that gave the school a way out. It’s in black and white in the contract. If he did his job he still would have been able to keep it.

Caron is a great Husky but if he was failing in the NBA he knew he was done. He needs to stay in his lane because Ollie failed at his job. Everyone who fails at their job has consequences Ollie, Caron, you and me.

Ollie lived on 10 day contracts in the NBA. He finally got a big $$ long term deal and screwed it up.. It’s to bad but he failed to seize his big break he had worked for..

 

[Huskybass]

KO had a job. He was failing miserably at his job. If he did his job he would still be here regardless.

JC had a job and did his job. Hence why he got to stay as long as he wanted.

If KO did not let 2014 get to his head and worked his but off to capitalize on his success recruiting and preparing and coaching his team he would have never been in his situation.

Its a pretty cut and dry situation. He failed to do his job. He also committed violations that gave the school a way out. It’s in black and white in the contract. If he did his job he still would have been able to keep it.

Caron is a great Husky but if he was failing in the NBA he knew he was done. He needs to stay in his lane because Ollie failed at his job. Everyone who fails at their job has consequences Ollie, Caron, you and me.

I agree with everything you said except the part about Caron needing to stay in his lane. He simply answered a question during a podcast interview. He answered the question honestly, but he wasn't there to actively campaign for Ollie or try to be adverse to UConn. He simply provided an honest answer to the question that was posed. They talked about lots of other topics and it was a good listen. The Boneyard has given his statement way more legs than it ever would have gotten otherwise.

 

[8893]

Clearly Calhoun and Ollie were treated differently. But the honest take is that it was based on success and performance, not on any discrimination.

Add to that the fact the UConn had recently come off probation and it is highly likely that UConn needed to run a tighter ship, hence a zero tolerance policy on infractions.

I still think KO has a terrible case from a legal standpoint, but the case does have some settlement value in order to put this saga in the past.

KO had a job. He was failing miserably at his job. If he did his job he would still be here regardless.

JC had a job and did his job. Hence why he got to stay as long as he wanted.

If KO did not let 2014 get to his head and worked his but off to capitalize on his success recruiting and preparing and coaching his team he would have never been in his situation.

Its a pretty cut and dry situation. He failed to do his job. He also committed violations that gave the school a way out. It’s in black and white in the contract. If he did his job he still would have been able to keep it.

Caron is a great Husky but if he was failing in the NBA he knew he was done. He needs to stay in his lane because Ollie failed at his job. Everyone who fails at their job has consequences Ollie, Caron, you and me.

Ollie lived on 10 day contracts in the NBA. He finally got a big $$ long term deal and screwed it up.. It’s to bad but he failed to seize his big break he had worked for..

Agree fully with both, except the Caron stay in his lane thing. He was asked and he answered. That's his opinion.

 

[Captbluefin]

You guy are right the “stay in his lane” was a wrong he was just answering a question. I just don’t like him backing Ollie over a school that gave him such a opportunity.

 

[huskyinfl]

You called people here "maniacs" for literally no reason. Nobody denies he controls his life or shapes his future. I don't recall (and you refused to quote) anyone saying they'd do anything to prevent him from having future success.

And people "liked" the post.

Strange indeed.

I'm not your personal research department. No reason. Have you read these threads? You are acting like it's court and some how your demand for me to do something has actual meaning. It doesn't. Yes there are many maniacs here.

 

[Martin]

The other note here is that Caron was a former criminal who no major program would touch. Had Calhoun and the UConn admissions folks not looked past his past so to speak he might well have spent his career in Turkey or Latvia or someplace rather than the NBA.

You need to substantiate this. It’s not fair at all to claim this and not post anything along with it to prove it.

 

[superjohn]

Ollie lived on 10 day contracts in the NBA. He finally got a big $$ long term deal and screwed it up.. It’s to bad but he failed to seize his big break he had worked for..

Living on 10 day contracts early on but he had a 5 year stretch where he made about 15 million in the nba and he made about 20 million for his playing career. There should be no tears for KO.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Does a 25yr employee that built a business deserve to be treated differently than the 6yr employee that inherits that built business?
Why wasn't Ollie hired & paid to be coach emeritus if he did the same things JC did? He didn't, he wasn't.
Let's not pretend me or anyone else is biased because Calhoun was a head coach for 40 years including coaching UConn successfully from 1986 - 2012 versus Kevin Ollie's career spanning 6 years. This is comparing Lindsay Lohan's acting career to Elizabeth Taylor's & saying they should be treated & regarded similarly.

It is mind boggling to me that this happened to a guy that played in the NBA for over a decade and was once one of the hottest coaching commodities. Why not repeat the hard work take your lumps and keep moving forward mantra that worked in basketball for so long? Isn't this yet another clue that maybe, just maybe Ollie was seriously derelict in his duties?! Many, many coaches have lost and gotten 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances - but the fact that this is out of the question for Ollie doesn't tell his supporters anything? The NCAA didn't give Calhoun a show-cause because he won?!! Even before the show cause there was no effort (hmm sounds like a pattern), attempt or interest on schools, teams or Ollie's part to coach again. Even Al Skinner got jobs and BC flat out said he was fired for being lazy (but winning, ironically).

 

[huskymedic]

Clearly Calhoun and Ollie were treated differently. But the honest take is that it was based on success and performance, not on any discrimination.

Add to that the fact the UConn had recently come off probation and it is highly likely that UConn needed to run a tighter ship, hence a zero tolerance policy on infractions.

I think some people forget that Ollie was on the staff when Calhoun (for failing to promote an atmosphere of compliance) and UConn (for failure to monitor) were finally whacked by the NCAA (I know that the Miles stuff happened before Ollie was on the staff but he was there for the NCAA colonoscopy into the program).

UConn was actually still on the resulting probation when Ollie was named head coach (probation ended in beginning of 2014).

 

[Huskybass]

I think some people forget that Ollie was on the staff when Calhoun (for failing to promote an atmosphere of compliance) and UConn (for failure to monitor) were finally whacked by the NCAA (I know that the Miles stuff happened before Ollie was on the staff but he was there for the NCAA colonoscopy into the program).

UConn was actually still on the resulting probation when Ollie was named head coach (probation ended in beginning of 2014).

I meant when he signed the contract at issue.

 

[BlueMAB]

Wrong again - one of the strengths for UConn recruiting is its history in the NCAA and in the NBA. Hurley would be a fool not to use former NBA greats that attended UConn while talking to recruits and their parents. So those UConn greats need to be on the university's side.

Hurley has invited them and welcomed them back into the family. He didn't fire Ollie, and he didn't refuse to pay the remainder of the salary. So the former players are punishing current players and coaches by refusing to accept his invitations.

And what if the same officer, hypothetically, either says “Oh, good evening, Coach Calhoun, here’s a warning, please carry on”; or “Mr. Ollie, please step out of the car and place your hands behind your back. You have the right to remain silent...”, depending on who is driving?

fun fact. Benedict was never Calhoun’s boss.

also, these hypotheticals don’t accurately translate.

Too little context.

Circumstances changed for UConn after being unnecessarily banned from the tournament

 

[BlueMAB]

UConn was actually still on the resulting probation when Ollie was named head coach (probation ended in beginning of 2014).

point was made several times but some people just don’t care.

 

[BlueMAB]

Yes there are many maniacs here.

Pot/Kettle

 

[Woodson]

Jim Calhoun is a diety at UCONN, that said, the condition he left the program in was less than ideal to say the least. The conference move, KO's divorce, broken rules, all contributed to the situation, but dropping the entire blame on KO is unfair, bad coach that he ended as.

Eh that’s a bit of a stretch. Conference affiliation isn’t on Calhoun, and the NCAA ban was a joke. Not to mention he left KO with a core group of players that would go on to win a national championship.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

This whole thing needs to be cut out and go in the rear view mirror today. How do they not get this even if they think they are right?

It is kind of amazing that you see it so clearly and express it so definitively and still it isn't being done the way you know it needs done.
How do you account for that?

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

2013-2016 Ollie was a great coach that could have kept UConn afloat until it got back to the Big East where he would have thrived. 2018 Ollie was mailing it in and deserved to be canned.

The 2014-15, directly after the National Champtionship felt frustrating and disappointing at the time. The team finished 5th in the AAC and lost in the opening round of the NIT. The following season was better, but still had an AAC 6th place finish, and went no further than the NCAA 2nd round. I don't see how Ollie gets accurately labeled a "great coach." How do you come up with that label?

I'm not going to argue with anyone who wants to label defeating Martell, Wright, Izzo, Hoiberg, Donovan, and Calipari as "great." I won't downplay of qualify the accomplishment, and it was a joy to witness and cheer for. Precious little after that approached such heights, and I'm surprised that anyone would offer that line of thinking.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Jim Calhoun is a diety at UCONN, that said, the condition he left the program in was less than ideal to say the least. The conference move, KO's divorce, broken rules, all contributed to the situation, but dropping the entire blame on KO is unfair, bad coach that he ended as.

I could overlook some imprecision in your first sentence and accept it for arguments sake. I could then similarly overlook more imprecision and say, "OK" to the second sentence. Does it add up to anything relevant or meaningful? Is this written in direct response to something I haven't seen, like a quoted post from someone I ignore? This doesn't make sense. What do you mean by "dropping the entire blame?" It sounds like it might be unfair, but is it real? What am I missing here?

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

In honor of @freescooter, maybe you should just burn in front of your son instead and tell him "This is how we treat ungrateful traitors."

Self-immolation seems rather extreme. Can't he just burn the book and make his point?

 

[Robertelamin]

Hopefully the staff continues to reach out the the former players and they can mend the relationships.

 

[8893]

I do get the sense that their financial constraints and public disclosure requirements are driving the strategy and that they may have underestimated the ripple effect with other former players and how much collateral damage that could do to the program and the brand.

What financial constraints are those 88? You realize that you can’t annual budget is 4 billion a year right? I think they might be able to find a 10 million in the seat cushions somewhere.

LOL. You’re not from around here, are you? But New Jersey may be in even worse shape financially so I’m surprised you don’t appreciate the financial constraints that our state is under, which extends to our state university.

The university runs on a budget, broken down by department and line item. This ain’t in the budget and someone’s gotta eat it. I don’t think anyone at the university has the appetite to make the case for that. New president? How could he have the necessary perspective? Suzie and AD David Benedict owned the decision and they can’t be the ones to press for UConn to pay now.

You are right though, I do like to knock down the bull crap mythology that has grown up around here on this issue, including that somehow Connecticut was unfair to Kevin because they “couldn’t afford to pay him.” That’s just wrong. Sorry if that offends you.

I don't know what it would cost, but I do believe that the financial constraints have been a factor.

If you say money has never been an issue that's welcome news to me.

That said, the suggestion that the school couldn’t afford to pay Ollie the full buyout is flat out wrong. I wonder why you’d suggest otherwise.

From today's UConn Daily (thanks @JohnFSilver ):

UConn In a $42 Million Hole The Story: The athletic department released its budgetary performance yesterday as the school had to fill a $42 million budget with a university subsidy. The direct institutional support is one of the highest in the nation, if not the highest. WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: The deficit will be a problem for the school going forward as basic revenue over expenses runs $42 million in the red. UConn's athletic budget is $84 million a year, which is the largest of the non-Power 5 programs. The school brings in approximately $42 million in revenue a year. UConn isn't a business and we do have to keep in mind that the goal of the athletic department isn't to turn a profit or even operate with no subsidy. The school spends $17 million in institutional aid a year (technically, it has to pay for the scholarships) and about $18 million in coaches' salaries. Because of some of the accounting, the deficit number isn't as eye-opening as it seems. That said, the athletic department hasn't been hitting its revenue targets in recent years and is going to remain challenged to do so for the near term. The subsidy in 2011 was $15 million, but the move to the AAC has seen expenses explode and revenue tank. That is why UConn is leaving for the Big East, not nostalgia. THE NUMBERS: Per the Hartford Courant, the football program brought in a paltry $3.3 million in revenue and $16.6 million in expenses for a deficit of $13.3 million. Men's basketball is losing nearly $4 million a year and women's basketball is losing $3.5 million. Now, those numbers include costs of scholarships and don't account for revenue from royalties, licensing, advertising and sponsorships, which brought in $11.2 million. TICKET SALES DECLINING: The football team's ticket revenue dropped 20 percent in 2019 while men's basketball dropped 3 percent, meaning there was no Dan Hurley hire bump. The women's basketball team's ticket revenue is down an astounding 17 percent. Those are all concerning metrics as the school has to rent the XL Center and Rentschler Field from the state, and doesn't receive parking or concession revenue from games played in the Hartford area. The non-big three sports for UConn cost $25.8 million and brought in only $2.8 million in revenue with only $615,000 in ticket sales. That number includes men's hockey, which has struggled in attendance in Hockey East, and men's and women's soccer, which played home games away from campus as a new stadium is built. Also, baseball is selling season tickets as it enters a new stadium in Storrs this spring and will begin to bring in more ticket revenue as a result. EFFECT OF MOVE TO BIG EAST: It is going to be a big expense for the school, which had to forfeit $3 million of AAC revenue as a result of moving out of the AAC. UConn has to pay $17 million to exit AAC and $3.5 million to enter the Big East. Those expenses are going to crush the short-term balance sheet. BENEDICT IN THE SPOTLIGHT: The budget is a Dave Benedict problem. We see the bright red, but what was it against targets? How much is the athletic department missing on its budget? Just as coaches are responsible for wins and losses, it is the job of the athletic director to manage the budget. A structural deficit is always going to be in the budget, but we are assuming the athletic department is not hitting its revenue targets. How far off is it from its goals and what's being done to get to those targets? That's the question we have to ask. OUR THOUGHTS: UConn has already started to trim expenses under the hood as administrative salaries were cut and we all know the football team's coaches' salary pool is challenged and well below what other major athletic departments pay. The Huskies are hoping to get better ticket sales in the Big East and develop an attractive home schedule for football as an independent. UConn is also actively seeking out buy games, such as Clemson in 2021, that will fetch north of a million dollars. UConn is also playing a one-off at UCF for more than $1 million and will try to negotiate a TV deal for football. Inevitably, we will hear about cutting football as a magic bullet, but that doesn't solve the structural deficit and would have repercussions in alumni donations and reduce the power and brand of the athletic department. BOTTOM LINE: If the deficit concerns you — and it should — buy tickets to games. Watch the games on television. The only way the Huskies are going to get out of the deficit is to grow their customer base and season-ticket base and negotiate more revenue-friendly deals for stadiums. UConn's predicament is a revenue problem, and cutting isn't going to make anyone who watches the athletic program happy with the end result.

 

[fatlucy]

Men's basketball is losing nearly $4 million a year and women's basketball is losing $3.5 million. Now, those numbers include costs of scholarships and don't account for revenue from royalties, licensing, advertising and sponsorships, which brought in $11.2 million.

How do you not account the $11.2M. Looks to me like the BBall teams make $4.2M