Caron Butler on how former players view UConn

[CL82]

They still would have fired him - for the real reason- he was losing.

Maybe and then he would be owed for the remainder of the contract. Sadly, for Kevin at least, he did cheat, in violation of his contract, and he did lie about it to both his employers and the NCAA, also in violation of his contract, and thus his contract terminated and he's isn't entitled to any payment under it.

I love how people obsess on an imagined "real reason for firing KO" instead of his proven breach of his contract.

 

[superjohn]

The other note here is that Caron was a former criminal who no major program would touch. Had Calhoun and the UConn admissions folks not looked past his past so to speak he might well have spent his career in Turkey or Latvia or someplace rather than the NBA.

What an awful post. Caron is one of the best people in and out of sports. You really have no business bringing up what went on in his life when he was a little kid.

 

[casual-yardin]

The argument is over money, and everyone defending Ollie is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.

Most people aren't defending Ollie. They are saying the school handled it incorrectly. There's a big difference there.

 

[Kathy]

Wait.

So they don't owe him the money then?

Make up your mind.

I think they do owe him - had he been winning they would have stood by him like they did with Calhoun - he was fired because he lost so yeah they owe him.

 

[Dooooooomed]

Best to Worst:

1. Winning and Not Cheating
2. Winning and Cheating
3. Not Winning and Not Cheating
4. Not Winning and Cheating

The previous regime was the absolute worst.

 

[Huskybass]

The argument is over money, and everyone defending Ollie is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.

Checkmate.

 

[freescooter]

Wow. Just wow.

Drug dealer at 15. In juvenile detention at 15. Turned his life around but they don’t put you in juice as a rewsrd

 

[gtcam]

KO couldn't win in the AAC and DH hasn't won in the AAC - why? Because neither can recruit the players they thought they needed rather than recruit players for the AAC.
DH gets the advantage of the NBE, KO didn't
KO should have been let go for the record in the past few years and in reality IF UConn had not gotten into the NBE and DH kept recruiting like he and KO have, he would have similar results.
Now in the NBE a better brand of player - those bigger and stronger - will look closer at UConn - that is fantastic and a good thing for the program
What happened between JC and KO is not all in the open so to speculate is nonsense
IF KO was a total DB (like many here speculate him to be) I honestly don't think so many ex players and friends would feel about him the way they do. It's telling that 90% of ex players, people who are very close to the program through involvement above the level of fan and friends felt he got a raw deal while 90% here feel the exact opposite
I applaud Caron for speaking his mind but It's history now
There's a lot of explayers out there who mean so much to UConn and have so much to offer - it's a shame - DH/staff and the administration have a heavy fence building effort in front of them if they feel these people have a legitimate voice and DEEP pockets - I can't speak for the staff or admin - maybe they don't care

 

[Kathy]

Drug dealer at 15. In juvenile detention at 15. Turned his life around but they don’t put you in juice as a rewsrd

Yeah I know - I read his book. So once a criminal always a criminal? A kid can't turn his life around? Glad JC didn't see it that way. And because he was in juvie at 15 he has no right to speak out now?
Talk about an elitist view.

 

[gtcam]

Best to Worst:

1. Winning and Not Cheating
2. Winning and Cheating
3. Not Winning and Not Cheating
4. Not Winning and Cheating

The previous regime was the absolute worst.

Please define cheating that helped bring in a significant recruit, helped a player stay in school or gave UConn an advantage
Recently UConn self reported 28 violations, which were tied to the previous "regime"?
Fishing for likes

 

[gtcam]

Yeah I know - I read his book. So once a criminal always a criminal? A kid can't turn his life around? Glad JC didn't see it that way. And because he was in juvie at 15 he has no right to speak out now?
Talk about an elitist view.

Kathy - don't waste the energy
I can't read what he wrote but I can only imagine

 

[Kathy]

Kathy - don't waste the energy
I can't read what he wrote but I can only imagine

Just a sore spot - I spent 26 years working with kids like Caron - some with positive outcomes, some not. Caron's story was inspiring to some of them - showed they could turn things around and leave that life behind. When someone dismisses a man for what he did as a kid just sets me off.

 

[Huskybass]

Yeah I know - I read his book. So once a criminal always a criminal? A kid can't turn his life around? Glad JC didn't see it that way. And because he was in juvie at 15 he has no right to speak out now?
Talk about an elitist view.

Kathy,

This is Freescooter. This is what he does. Not a happy camper. Consider yourself fortunate to live your life through a happier set of eyes.

Caron's story is a fantastic one, and of course I get that he would back another player in Ollie. I wouldn't expect anything less.

Caron's is not a story to poke at, it's a truly great one. Literally one of the best, and an important part of Jim Calhoun's legacy.

Boy did we have it good back in the day. From nothing to a truly storied program.

Don't let Freescooter bother you a bit, that's his schtick.

 

[BlueMAB]

Please - Calhoun was courting Hurley all season - KO just gave them a better reason and an out on paying.

I think they do owe him - had he been winning they would have stood by him like they did with Calhoun - he was fired because he lost so yeah they owe him.

So to paraphrase your argument.

Kevin Ollie breached his contract. UConn didn't "really" fire him for breach of contract. So UConn should pay him, even though he breached his contract.

That's a really, really, really bizarre take. Stop thinking with your heart and use your head. Sorry, not sorry.

Does a contract mean nothing?

Edit...

I honestly think what you mean to say is: "I think they should pay him"

Which is very different than: "I think they owe him".

The former is an opinion. I happen to think they should pay him something to make this go away, but we have no idea if he'll accept less than $10mm.

The latter can be proven false by your admission that he breached his contract. So by your own words, no, they don't "owe" him.

 

[Huskybass]

I'm sure they would be absolutely outraged that such baseness besmirched their blessed and ever-chaste alma mater and would demand nothing less than swift and absolute justice be visited upon the villain who would author such misdeeds.

Are you seven years old?

These are things you get penalized for. Is that hard to comprehend? Ollie didn't get a 3 Year Show Cause for no reason. There is being a compassionate fan, I get that. But turning a blind eye to the ramifications, isn't helpful. I think we are still technically on probation this year and down one scholarship.

If these are things that have negative disciplinary consequences, don't they invoke the "for cause" provision in the contract? It's nice to back Ollie on this, but the foundation of any arguments he may have are tenuous at best.

Btw, your posts are funny. Even if I see things differently.

 

[BlueMAB]

Most people aren't defending Ollie. They are saying the school handled it incorrectly. There's a big difference there.

The argument is over money, and everyone saying the school handled it incorrectly is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.

See how that still works?

I think we are still technically on probation this year and down one scholarship.

We are.

 

[casual-yardin]

The argument is over money, and everyone saying the school handled it incorrectly is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.

See how that still works?



We are.

Saying the school didn't handle it correctly is not the same thing as saying he should have been paid or that the violations weren't a big deal.

 

[BlueMAB]

Saying the school didn't handle it correctly is not the same thing as saying he should have been paid or that the violations weren't a big deal.

Okay, what exactly are they saying the school didn't do correctly then?

Aside from refusing to pay him.

And yes, people have definitely argued the violations were minor, and he should have been paid. I don't know what you've been reading the past 10 pages.

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

Just a sore spot - I spent 26 years working with kids like Caron - some with positive outcomes, some not. Caron's story was inspiring to some of them - showed they could turn things around and leave that life behind. When someone dismisses a man for what he did as a kid just sets me off.

Do you know James Greene? Connecticut Prison Association lead attorney for the Legal Assistance to Prisoners program. He is/was a visionary. A great youth advocate that helped turn lives around. Also a coach.

 

[UofCT]

Rikos > Colony. Pizza is just better at rikos

 

[Kathy]

Do you know James Greene? Connecticut Prison Association lead attorney for the Legal Assistance to Prisoners program. He is/was a visionary. A great youth advocate that helped turn lives around. Also a coach.

Dont know him personally but know of him.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

2013-2016 Ollie was a great coach that could have kept UConn afloat until it got back to the Big East where he would have thrived. 2018 Ollie was mailing it in and deserved to be canned.

 

[UCDaveD]

2013-2016 Ollie was a great coach that could have kept UConn afloat until it got back to the Big East where he would have thrived. 2018 Ollie was mailing it in and deserved to be canned.

No one should dispute this.

 

[Madmannsucks]

Drug dealer at 15. In juvenile detention at 15. Turned his life around but they don’t put you in juice as a rewsrd

This post is an embarrassment to the board.

 

[8893]

The argument is over money, and everyone defending Ollie is basically arguing the violations weren't a big deal, and/or he would have been fired anyway.

Fine.

If even one of you were honest, you'd accept/admit/acknowledge that without violations, he would have been paid.

But then you'd have nothing to argue about.

I believe there are at least three points on which most agree:

1. If he wasn't losing, he wouldn't have been fired.

2. He was losing--badly--and he deserved to be fired.

3. NCAA violations were committed under his watch, for which he was responsible, and for which the university had the right to fire him.

The "we really mean it this time" contract provision re NCAA violations sounds great in theory, but on paper the language reads the same as it did when, well, we might not have meant it--or enforced it--as much. Was this reinforced orally to Ollie? That's what UConn says. I don't know what Ollie says about that.

The reason some posters are alluding to history with former players is because context matters. We don't know what they know re prior conduct. But they do.