Big 12 | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Big 12

I'm just looking for any glimmer of hope at this point. Deez Nuts are completely numb. Make no mistake, I don't want to hear anything about basketball only. I can't believe we read so much about UConn to the Big 12 but it's been silence since the most recent moves. This kid is interesting and I guess any UConn mention is good.

 
HuskyHawk said:
Read all the comments from all the fans and media during all of this process and you will see it is the view held by most people. Haven't you seen last year's NC called "Lucky" despite our clear dominance? Certainly 2014 actually was lucky. 2011 is often treated the same way. The average fan probably thinks more of Gonzaga than UConn because they always get a high seed every year. Championships are not the measuring stick for realignment. Otherwise the B1G wouldn't be the most valuable conference.
Expand ...

Beating each team in the NCAA's premiere tournament by over 10 points in every game is hardly luck. We'll have to excuse the ignorance of supposed fans who don't matter in this calculus of realignment anyway.

In a one and done tournament, you do need some luck, but UConn has a moxie that other programs don't, and those envious "fans" know it.
 
JohnFSilver said:
Who told you that?

That isn’t a curate. Very program, when you account for cost and transfer, runs a deficit, even the women’s team.
Expand ...
Is that true? Where are you getting those numbers? I get it with football due to the sheer number of individuals who need to be supported. But if we can’t make money in a championship year for basketball, either we have some very bad historical deals on the revenue side or the AD isn’t doing his job properly.
 
upstater said:
OSU and WSU and football value? BC and football value? What am I missing here.
Expand ...
OK. Let's try it this way: more value than us. And remember, value equals what someone is willing to pay for you. Not how many wins your athletic department has. The market has repeatedly said we don't have as much value as we think we have.

upstater said:
This is what is strange about this conversation: the huge move to consolidated conferences is happening because of a perceived move to break with the NCAA. Once that happens, the value of basketball skyrockets in relation to football.

So we can't talk about one factor, the super conferences, without talking about the other, the increased importance of basketball.
Expand ...
Where are you getting the value of basketball skyrocketing? Because Yormark said he thinks basketball is undervalued? We are clinging to that quote. Newsflash, he was playing us for the teams he really wanted. Notice how he never actually quantified how much it was worth? He is such a good salesman. He got everyone drooling and played to our confirmation bias.

Look, I am a huge UConn fan - football and basketball season ticket holder. I have not given up hope. And I do believe there is way more change coming and my gut is we will land on our feet somewhere somehow. But this is where we are today.
 
.-.
aburks41 said:
My worry about the NCAA Tournament is that the P4 (or whatever it is now) don't need to find a TV partner to pay the $1.1B that Turner pays right now. Conferences only get a small portion of that pie, like roughly ~30%. So around $330M split between all the conferences with tournament credits.

What happens if FOX and ESPN say hey wait a minute, we'll pay you guys $350M/year to broadcast our own tournament, with half the games on FOX and half on ESPN, and then a rotating Championship game like CBS/FOX/NBC do for the Super Bowl.

That is my biggest fear. Would the Big East be included in that? I think we will get our answer to that when the new CFP format comes out. If the P4 squeeze out the G5 conferences from getting auto-bids, we are in serious danger because that means the NCAA Tournament is likely where they turn their attention to next.
Expand ...
I’m not sure it would be that abrupt for bb.
What’s happening now is the non p5 bb schools are losing in the arms race. The ability to pay coaches and staff will be first noticeable shift which you’re seeing. Then it will be facilities longer term.

You can’t lock out Big East now because it’s arguably the 1 or 2 best BB leagues. But in 10 years when the gap is even bigger and if BE isn’t as competitive, the case will be made
 
Khal Drogo said:
I could see Basketball only with a 3 year delay for Football.
Expand ...
There's not much room on the football schedule for multiple B12 games until 2027.

Over the next six years, UConn has a dozen games scheduled with the ACC, five with the B1G, three with the SEC, but zero with B12. I wonder why that happened.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Read all the comments from all the fans and media during all of this process and you will see it is the view held by most people. Haven't you seen last year's NC called "Lucky" despite our clear dominance? Certainly 2014 actually was lucky. 2011 is often treated the same way. The average fan probably thinks more of Gonzaga than UConn because they always get a high seed every year. Championships are not the measuring stick for realignment. Otherwise the B1G wouldn't be the most valuable conference.

UConn needs to get a #1-2 seed and go deep again this year. And the year after, and the year after that. We did that in the 00s, but not really since. On the football side, same thing. Bowl eligible, bowl eligible, bowl eligible...again and again. Winning some bowl games would help.
Expand ...
I distinctly remember in UConn’s early football acension, the sports broadcaster mentioning ‘those Huskies’ and ‘yeah, they play football too’. I think that was 2007 or 2008.

Point is, 15 years later the needle hasn’t moved. If anything it went backwards. And us getting lumped in with Gonzaga doesn’t help.
 
Marbles90 said:
OK. Let's try it this way: more value than us. And remember, value equals what someone is willing to pay for you. Not how many wins your athletic department has. The market has repeatedly said we don't have as much value as we think we have.
Expand ...

Of course we do. There's no major league professional team here, so this market is also an opportunity for growth that other markets in the equation don't have the room for - they're already maxed out, have another significant university in the same general space, or have other professional teams. Wall Street is all about growth, so it's ridiculous that this factor isn't applied in terms of the potential UConn has vs other universities vying for P5 considering its space.
 
Marbles90 said:
OK. Let's try it this way: more value than us. And remember, value equals what someone is willing to pay for you. Not how many wins your athletic department has. The market has repeatedly said we don't have as much value as we think we have.


Where are you getting the value of basketball skyrocketing? Because Yormark said he thinks basketball is undervalued? We are clinging to that quote. Newsflash, he was playing us for the teams he really wanted. Notice how he never actually quantified how much it was worth? He is such a good salesman. He got everyone drooling and played to our confirmation bias.

Look, I am a huge UConn fan - football and basketball season ticket holder. I have not given up hope. And I do believe there is way more change coming and my gut is we will land on our feet somewhere somehow. But this is where we are today.
Expand ...
I think value also includes an opportunity cost. In this case, UConn might have a higher value on the open market. But with Fox, the value is $4M.

That’s part of the price we paid in moving back to BE. Being property of Fox and asking them to pay $25M more for same product plus football doesn’t work.

Not exactly sure why ESPN and ACC won’t act but I think that’s FOX’s position
 
storrsroars said:
There's not much room on the football schedule for multiple B12 games until 2027.

Over the next six years, UConn has a dozen games scheduled with the ACC, five with the B1G, three with the SEC, but zero with B12. I wonder why that happened.
Expand ...
My guess is that it isn't what you're suggesting and instead reflects that the ACC schools know who we are so do B1G schools. The B1G specifically allows UConn games to count towards their P5 scheduling requirement. I don't know if the ACC and SEC do, but if so, that would explain it.
 
.-.
storrsroars said:
There's not much room on the football schedule for multiple B12 games until 2027.

Over the next six years, UConn has a dozen games scheduled with the ACC, five with the B1G, three with the SEC, but zero with B12. I wonder why that happened.
Expand ...

Interestingly a marquee basketball event vs a "magnificent" ACC program has just been announced with the Jimmy V Classic at MSG. There's obvious respect for the program here even if football is the main driver.

www.espn.com

UConn-North Carolina, FAU-Illinois to meet in Jimmy V Classic

Reigning national champion UConn will take on North Carolina in this season's Jimmy V Classic, with Final Four participant Florida Atlantic battling Illinois in the other matchup.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
uconnyankee said:
I think value also includes an opportunity cost. In this case, UConn might have a higher value on the open market. But with Fox, the value is $4M.

That’s part of the price we paid in moving back to BE. Being property of Fox and asking them to pay $25M more for same product plus football doesn’t work.

Not exactly sure why ESPN and ACC won’t act but I think that’s FOX’s position
Expand ...

Good point in terms of FOX's influence. The move back to the BE and go with football as an indy was also done to end the purgatory of the AAC, followed by increased revenue from alumni donations and definitely definitely at the gate too. Merchandising is part of the equation as well. So even though the TV revenue is small, they did increase their coffers through other sources by making the move.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Read all the comments from all the fans and media during all of this process and you will see it is the view held by most people. Haven't you seen last year's NC called "Lucky" despite our clear dominance? Certainly 2014 actually was lucky. 2011 is often treated the same way. The average fan probably thinks more of Gonzaga than UConn because they always get a high seed every year. Championships are not the measuring stick for realignment. Otherwise the B1G wouldn't be the most valuable conference.

UConn needs to get a #1-2 seed and go deep again this year. And the year after, and the year after that. We did that in the 00s, but not really since. On the football side, same thing. Bowl eligible, bowl eligible, bowl eligible...again and again. Winning some bowl games would help.
Expand ...
You're doubling down on crazy. This seems to be a you problem with Kansas having less basketball titles than UConn.

UConn basketball dominance has nothing to do with it. UConn football is looked at as terrible because UConn football has been terrible for a decade.
 
superjohn said:
You're doubling down on crazy. This seems to be a you problem with Kansas having less basketball titles than UConn.

UConn basketball dominance has nothing to do with it. UConn football is looked at as terrible because UConn football has been terrible for a decade.
Expand ...
UConn can get to middle of the pack in B 12. Will never win the conference. As bad as you think they are they did beat Fresno State last year who ended up 24 in the final AP poll.
 
superjohn said:
You're doubling down on crazy. This seems to be a you problem with Kansas having less basketball titles than UConn.

UConn basketball dominance has nothing to do with it. UConn football is looked at as terrible because UConn football has been terrible for a decade.
Expand ...
:rolleyes: It has nothing to do with Kansas' titles. Did you read the commentary about UConn being added to the Big XII? Yes they said our football was trash, but they also pointed to the 2016-2021 years in hoops and other bad stretches under JC. It's ridiculous, but it's a perception that is out there. We do tend to over-estimate the value of NCs vs consistency because we've won so many. Those who didn't win any definitely under-estimate titles, because they are hard to get. Very few schools have more than one.
 
.-.
Khal Drogo said:
UConn can get to middle of the pack in B 12. Will never win the conference. As bad as you think they are they did beat Fresno State last year who ended up 24 in the final AP poll.
Expand ...
I have no doubt UConn would get good quickly if given the opportunity in the Big 12 and could win the conference down the road. I don't think much of Big 12 football.
 
HuskyHawk said:
but they also pointed to the 2016-2021 years in hoops and other bad stretches under JC. It's ridiculous, but it's a perception that is out there. We do tend to over-estimate the value of NCs vs consistency because we've won so many.
Expand ...


"They" = the Kansas message board
 
August_West said:
Not a streak left. Can see right through it

Expand ...

You guys can go find my comments back a decade or more and they are consistent. Have nothing to do with KU. I feel the same way about the Red Sox, Pats etc. Championships matter less to me than always being in the playoffs. I hate missing the NCAA tournament more than anything.

But I'm not even talking about me. You know I want us in a P5, you don't, you wanted the Big East. Twitter, reddit, media, wherever you looked people were trying to downplay our accomplishments since 1999. Sour grapes? Envy? That was going strong during the discussions last week. It wasn't just football. Arizona was treated as an equivalent basketball program.
 
.-.
superjohn said:
Who cares at that point, it would be the end of college sports.
Expand ...
Sure, for the schools on the outside looking in. For the schools on the inside, it's a new era of prosperity.
 
People need to stop reading every tweet or comment that’s negative and then saying “this is how the rest of the country views us” or “we have a perception problem.”Sports fans are not rational. The internet is a negative place. Every school gets hated on by other fans. If we win the next 2 national titles in basketball as #1 seeds none of those comments are gonna change. Reality is what matters and the reality is we have elite basketball and have been awful at football. I’m excited about what mora did last year and what he’s going to do but one 6-7 season doesn’t make a dent in our overall body of work. Just like if big east was evaluating expansion candidates we would not want a school that’s been awful for a decade but made the NIT last year
 
FriarJ said:
I should add though you are right, it is the upper end.

PC 43
Georgetown 42
Nova 39
St. John’s 39
Marquette 38
Expand ...
I'm not questioning these numbers but I'm curious how you got them. Private schools seldom publish information like this.
 
superjohn said:
I have no doubt UConn would get good quickly if given the opportunity in the Big 12 and could win the conference down the road. I don't think much of Big 12 football.
Expand ...
I have no doubt that with our current leadership we could compete for football titles in any conference if we were a member.

Among the difficulties we faced in the most current round of expansion is that there is no reason for anyone believe that is the case. The narrative when we left the AAC was that we were abandoning football. The reality was we did it to help avoid a financial blood bath but no other school had tier three product that could generate revenue so they couldn't understand the financial burden we would have faced by giving up our tier three rights.

We had a horrific product (and gave up a season) during all but our most current season after leaving the AAC. It is easy for outsiders to believe that 2022 was a fluke and until we play more games, we cannot demonstrate that it wasn't.

For the time being we have to do the only thing we can do, continue to improve the football program and say to the rest of the intercollegiate sporting world "like us, hate us, it doesn't matter and truth be told we don't give a $#!&. We'll win just to make you angry.
 
HuskyHawk said:
:rolleyes: It has nothing to do with Kansas' titles. Did you read the commentary about UConn being added to the Big XII? Yes they said our football was trash, but they also pointed to the 2016-2021 years in hoops and other bad stretches under JC. It's ridiculous, but it's a perception that is out there. We do tend to over-estimate the value of NCs vs consistency because we've won so many. Those who didn't win any definitely under-estimate titles, because they are hard to get. Very few schools have more than one.
Expand ...
People point out our "inconsistency" as if Kentucky and UNC don't have down years. They really do
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I have no doubt that with our current leadership we could compete for football titles in any conference if we were a member.

Among the difficulties we faced in the most current round of expansion is that there is no reason for anyone believe that is the case. The narrative when we left the AAC was that we were abandoning football. The reality was we did it to help avoid a financial blood bath but no other school had tier three product that could generate revenue so they couldn't understand the financial burden we would have faced by giving up our tier three rights.

We had a horrific product (and gave up a season) during all but our most current season after leaving the AAC. It is easy for outsiders to believe that 2022 was a fluke and until we play more games, we cannot demonstrate that it wasn't.

For the time being we have to do the only thing we can do, continue to improve the football program and say to the rest of the intercollegiate sporting world "like us, hate us, it doesn't matter and truth be told we don't give a $#!&. We'll win just to make you angry.
Expand ...
I hope to hell your last para is what AD David Benedict is thinking. I'm fearful that the irony in all this is that some P4 is gonna pick him off in next year or two. I also think that Mora is perhaps facing a bit more pressure than he figured on when he took this gig. Just praying the two of them see this thing through.
 
.-.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,207
Messages
4,556,874
Members
10,442
Latest member
Virginiafan


Top Bottom