Big 12 TV partners push back on expansion

[uconnell]

I'm sure they would love to get it at a lower price.

That doesn't make sense. Many UConn games are on ESPN despite not being in a P5 conference. I think almost half of the WBB games are carried by ESPN, and ESPN carries AAC football and many of our MBB games. Not to mention the tourney. Why should ESPN care if UConn is in a P5 conference? They are already carrying those games for bargain basement prices.

ESPN makes a bundle of $$$$ on the AAC with UConn, if UConn leaves ESPN wrote in the contract, along with Cincy and maybe USF(?), ESPN will cancel the contract. How true this is who knows.

 

[upstater]

ESPN really can't go crying on expansion, and I don't understand why they told Ourland that, other than as a negotiating position.

When they signed the contract a few years ago, the idea was that the B12 would expand. But with who? Does ESPN think they were going to pick off the Pac12? Of course not. ACC? No--esp. since that was ESPN territory. So of course ESPN had known, back then, that the B12 was going to expand with G5 schools.

In other words, ESPN agreed to pay pro-rata for the B12 to add G5 schools.

This is why I draw two conclusions from this thread:

1. This is just a negotiating ploy for ESPN, or...
2. ESPN really doesn't like the choice(s)

But as for #2, ESPN signed that contract knowing the best 2 or 4 of the G5 would be added pro-rata. It could be ESPN simply feels Houston and Memphis are not fits.

 

[CL82]

ESPN is just doing what it does namely manipulating the college basketball market for it own benefit. While I don't think they have an active dislike for us, we've been "collateral damage" from a few of there money grabs.

Big 12 should go 4 and take the money and run.

Now some talking head like to talk about football driving the bus, but we all know it's money. Still if you are going for the cash grab you might as well take the programs that have the best chance at helping you down the road. UConn does that by giving access to last untapped college football market, the northeast. Academically, we'd be among the best (top 2) in the Big 12. As to sports, it is foolish to live and die with a year or two of football success as that fluctuates. The better marker, in my opinion, is athletic department strenght. There UConn shines. P5 budget - check. Success across a broard range of sports - check. Branding - look at our IMG and Nike deals - check.

If you are making a rational choice based on metrics, UConn is an easy choice. There's no guarantee that that will happen though.

 

[UCPusky]

...ESPN signed that contract knowing the best 2 or 4 of the G5 would be added pro-rata. It could be ESPN simply feels Houston and Memphis are not fits.

This. Since we (ESPN) have to pay for the additions, we want a say - or at least you will consider our input.

 

[atom58]

You know why you can never trust an atom? Because they make up everything.

Yes, I have that T-shirt, but my opinions are trustworthy.

 

[atom58]

Yet the continual "t-shirt" fans (fans that never attended the schools) mean nothing, but the band wagon fans of Miami mean everything? You focused on the alumni aspect of the Big10, but never mentioned the comparison of the markets of the Big12 vs the Big10? You then focused on everything that wasn't what the original discussion was about: The Big12 is overvalued. You go on and talk about The ACC (which is/was undervalued) and the SEC, which is either properly valued or undervalued, IMO.

You still haven't given any evidence that the Big12 is undervalued. Your only points are that FSU is willing to play anybody anywhere, Miami will be awesome when the bandwagon fans come back, Syracuse sells a lot of merchandise and that I'm wrong. You only give partial evidence of FSU playing anyone anywhere while trying to agitate me (bringing up the 1991 Michigan FSU game and that the only Big10 school you like is MSU). You provide no evidence for the next three points, but I can tell you that I have been and will be wrong about many things, just ask my wife.

To make a long story short, I believe you are overvaluing the alumni base. Recall, FSU was a "girls school" until 1947. The base makes a difference in donations, sure, but not necessarily for TV viewers - UF has more alumni but we are a more popular national brand. FSU will be on Showtime this fall. Notre Dame was there last year. They wanted to start with FSU but the school wondered about objectivity but after seeing the ND series agreed.
And, yes, UF will still have more donors and a larger stadium.

 

[atom58]

LOL so his sourced story is lies but the unsourced opinion story is correct.

You might want to read that quote yourself. Which 'story' is more likely to be true?

Your criteria seems to be which ever one you'd prefer to be true.

Sources can have "axes to grind" - you really don't know the truth until everything "falls out" so to speak - as for me, I rely on my judgments.

 

[whaler11]

Sources can have "axes to grind" - you really don't know the truth until everything "falls out" so to speak - as for me, I rely on my judgments.

LOL - his sources are from the networks intentionally planting the story with him.

But you go with just believing whatever you want to be true. The internet is perfect for you.

 

[atom58]

On last thing that occurs to me is that Fox and ESPN cannot pay the Big 12 NOT to expand - if they pay them at the rate of the SEC and Big 10 those conferences will be knocking on their doors. I have read that the Big 10 recent deal in particular is not "signed, sealed, and delivered" so in the short run could be renegotiated if they feel the Big 12 is overvalued by such a hypothetical increase. In that sense, the networks are trapped. It may be anyone's guess really but I believe that after all this the Big 12 will add 2 and very possibly 4 teams b/c they likely will not all agree on which two to add but if four are added each of the 10 voting members will get their 1st choice.

 

[atom58]

LOL - his sources are from the networks intentionally planting the story with him.

But you go with just believing whatever you want to be true. The internet is perfect for you.

I don't "rely" on the internet. I make my own judgements.

 

[dayooper]

To make a long story short, I believe you are overvaluing the alumni base. Recall, FSU was a "girls school" until 1947. The base makes a difference in donations, sure, but not necessarily for TV viewers - UF has more alumni but we are a more popular national brand. FSU will be on Showtime this fall. Notre Dame was there last year. They wanted to start with FSU but the school wondered about objectivity but after seeing the ND series agreed.
And, yes, UF will still have more donors and a larger stadium.

Yes the alumni base is a small part of the equation, but the markets are an even a larger portion. Yet, it's the only part of my statement that you bringing up? It's small market base is what makes the Big12 overvalued. Remember, that was what your original statement was about, not FSU vs. UF and their alumni.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

Are the Big 12 powers playing poker with ESPN & Fox?

 

[upstater]

Are the Big 12 powers playing poker with ESPN & Fox?

Tramel really doesn't give us any confidence with what he writes. So, ESPN was more than willing to see UConn added to P5 in 2012 AND 2014 but not now?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Tramel really doesn't give us any confidence with what he writes. So, ESPN was more than willing to see UConn added to P5 in 2012 AND 2014 but not now?

Is this literally the first Tramel article you've read? He's been probably the most pro-UConn/Big 12 writer for months.

 

[upstater]

Just because he's pro-UConn doesn't mean I have confidence in what he writes. Guy contradicts himself constantly.

 

[billybud]

From CNN Money: Could mean need for more content for ESPN in future.

Disney (DIS) acquired a 33% stake in BAMTech on Tuesday in a deal worth $1 billion. BAMTech was spun off from Major League Baseball Advanced Media. It's a tech company and video streaming company that includes clients such as HBO NOW.

That means Disney could use BAM's streaming technology to create a long-awaited ESPN streaming service that Disney could sell directly to consumers -- even if they don't have a cable subscription.

"Our investment in BAMTech gives us the technology infrastructure we need to quickly scale and monetize our streaming capabilities at ESPN and across our company," Bob Iger, Disney's CEO said in a statement. "We look forward to working closely with BAMTech as we explore new ways to deliver the unmatched content of The Walt Disney Company across a variety of platforms."

BAMTech will also collaborate with ESPN to "launch and distribute a new ESPN-branded multi-sport subscription streaming service in the future" that will include sporting events beyond the current crop of games and programs currently found on ESPN.

 

[polycom]

UConn going to the Big 12 long term could potentially be disastrous for UConn. What happens to UConn if we get an invite to the Big 12 and then the Big 12 breaks up....because of TV deals.

 

[Santini35]

UConn going to the Big 12 long term could potentially be disastrous for UConn. What happens to UConn if we get an invite to the Big 12 and then the Big 12 breaks up....because of TV deals.

We would have spent the last 8ish years getting more money than we do now, playing teams that drive more attendance, being in the P5 instead of G5 etc.... so yeah better off than staying in the AAC for another 8 years

 

[Stainmaster]

We would have spent the last 8ish years getting more money than we do now, playing teams that drive more attendance, being in the P5 instead of G5 etc.... so yeah better off than staying in the AAC for another 8 years

Which, in turn, makes us that much more attractive to a B1G or ACC that's potentially mining the wreckage.

 

[atom58]

Yes the alumni base is a small part of the equation, but the markets are an even a larger portion. Yet, it's the only part of my statement that you bringing up? It's small market base is what makes the Big12 overvalued. Remember, that was what your original statement was about, not FSU vs. UF and their alumni.

Sure, the fanbase of the Big 12 may be smaller, but if you can't see the "pull" of OU and Texas to nationwide TV viewers, I don't know what to tell you. Those two are keeping the Big 12 viable with TV $$$ and let me say I hope the conference survives b/c if it implodes for sure there will be schools left behind with no where else (in the P5 anyway) to go. And also just maybe UConn will get the call soon - in the meantime the school should continue to push forward on the academic side and ultimately seek to join the AAU - that will help as it is University Presidents who have to make the decision rather than ADs and FB and BB coaches. Academic standing (most of the time) is valued by the major conferences.

 

[JMick]

in the meantime the school should continue to push forward on the academic side and ultimately seek to join the AAU - that will help as it is University Presidents who have to make the decision rather than ADs and FB and BB coaches. Academic standing (most of the time) is valued by the major conferences.

The problem is that if you're not "in" now, good luck being "in" later.

I agree that we should keep pushing for AAU status, but the rhetoric coming out is that if you're not P5 then you're nothing. I don't want to be a doom and gloom guy, but if the AAC is raided and UConn is not included, we won't be able to sustain our athletic programs the way we have been. Good luck getting 5* recruits for basketball and 3* recruits for football when you're playing against nobodies.

 

[atom58]

The problem is that if you're not "in" now, good luck being "in" later.

I agree that we should keep pushing for AAU status, but the rhetoric coming out is that if you're not P5 then you're nothing. I don't want to be a doom and gloom guy, but if the AAC is raided and UConn is not included, we won't be able to sustain our athletic programs the way we have been. Good luck getting 5* recruits for basketball and 3* recruits for football when you're playing against nobodies.

I can see that could be a problem but there is an OOC schedule - I think you guys are playing UVa, BC, and SU this year for instance. Attempting to win the conference and having a respectable overall record should help with perception. Also somewhere I read that the Big 10 is interested in adding AAU BB schools in the next go round.

 

[Santini35]

I can see that could be a problem but there is an OOC schedule - I think you guys are playing UVa, BC, and SU this year for instance. Attempting to win the conference and having a respectable overall record should help with perception. Also somewhere I read that the Big 10 is interested in adding AAU BB schools in the next go round.

But how long does that last? The P5 seems to be closing ranks, and putting limits on who they can play ooc, such as requiring a certain number from P5. Who knows how long we can be considered "good enough" to keep the B10 and others counting us as a P5 equivalent

 

[ninety-nine]

But how long does that last? The P5 seems to be closing ranks, and putting limits on who they can play ooc, such as requiring a certain number from P5. Who knows how long we can be considered "good enough" to keep the B10 and others counting us as a P5 equivalent

The fact is, the concept of "stability" in this system is illusory. Because it's being driven by the profit expectations of business interests, which are clearly unrealistic over the long term, there will always be pressure to cut costs and increase revenue in order to satisfy shareholders (or their financial-industry "representatives"), pay executive salaries, etc. As many have already said, this means that the most profitable programs will eventually break off in some fashion (even if it's just financially) and stop sharing media revenue with the Wake Forests and Washington States of the world, and a little further down the road, Alabama, Michigan, FSU and Notre Dame won't want much to do with Mississippi, Maryland and Arizona, so they'll find a way to create some kind of top-tier football superconference arrangement for the 16-20 very top dogs. Et cetera. Of course, the media partners will still find some way to "monetize" every other school at a lesser level, because some money can be made from the junior leagues, too, and the pressure to make that money is intense.

That is how the corporate world works. It consumes itself because it has developed an appetite far beyond that which is necessary to sustain existence, and that appetite never stops being hungry and wanting more. It can't be stable. Capitalism creates, consumes, and destroys by its very nature. It's a terrible match for the educational system, but it's completely dominant now, so we try to fit our hopes and dreams into its financial plans.

Right now, UConn is struggling with being "good enough" because there is no core meaning to "good enough." It's a transitory and situational concept, like "high-end" or "fit for human consumption." When your state flagship U wins 15 out of 42 NCAA basketball titles in a 21-year span - a LUDICROUS achievement, by the way - and its football team played in a major bowl less than six years ago, and it still feels like the flagship is bobbing up and down in the harbor, waiting for a tugboat that is slowly taking on water, that should be pretty obvious.

 

[billybud]

The reason, of course, for the scramble by schools to get a Big 12 invite, is that it might be the last train to Clarksville.

Houston understands that it is "all in".

It's a practice that UH apparently realizes it cannot keep up. Chancellor Renu Khator wrote as much in an email obtained by the Houston Chronicle. If UH does not get into a major conference soon, "it will be difficult for us to sustain it," she wrote in 2014 to a UH professor who sent her an article about college athletics spending.

"It's a big bet and we're not a cash-rich school," Jonathan Snow, the president of UH's faculty senate, said in a recent interview.