Big 12 TV partners push back on expansion | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Big 12 TV partners push back on expansion

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Clay Travis is a loathsome individual but he completely gets this topic.

Losing a quarter of a million subs in a month?

If I'm Disney I'm looking for a way to spin them off because with their liabilities if they don't solve the revenue issues soon they have a bleak future.
 
sportsart said:
The more I think about this triple header the more I hope this was in UConn's presentation to the Big 12.

Talk about taking over a city. Let's see Cincy, BYU or Memphis try this.

#uconn6thborough
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Agree. Sports other than FB have to account for a bit one would hope, and push us into the B12.
 
whaler11 said:
Clay Travis is a loathsome individual but he completely gets this topic.

Losing a quarter of a million subs in a month?

If I'm Disney I'm looking for a way to spin them off because with their liabilities if they don't solve the revenue issues soon they have a bleak future.
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Yes, but has anyone plotted out FS1's sports content? While ESPN maybe looking to offload, FS1 may still have too little content, particularly in the eastern time zone and therefore may have tolerance for this 4 team B12 expansion if it gives them content in zones they have nothing.
 
Exit 4 said:
Yes, but has anyone plotted out FS1's sports content? While ESPN maybe looking to offload, FS1 may still have too little content, particularly in the eastern time zone and therefore may have tolerance for this 4 team B12 expansion if it gives them content in zones they have nothing.
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Well a lot if Big 12 fans were already worried their games would get pushed to FS2 with the Big 10 deal.
 
whaler11 said:
Well a lot if Big 12 fans were already worried their games would get pushed to FS2 with the Big 10 deal.
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Okay, so they have 50% of the B1G 10, which is plenty of EST programming. A second conference would be nice to sandwich in there however and spread the tv ratings bet. A B12 with CT and a FL school would help Fox which has zero FL content and only moderate appeal with the B10 north of NJ.
 
Exit 4 said:
Okay, so they have 50% of the B1G 10, which is plenty of EST programming. A second conference would be nice to sandwich in there however and spread the tv ratings bet. A B12 with CT and a FL school would help Fox which has zero FL content and only moderate appeal with the B10 north of NJ.
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I'm sure they would love to get it at a lower price.
 
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Exit 4 said:
Okay, so they have 50% of the B1G 10, which is plenty of EST programming. A second conference would be nice to sandwich in there however and spread the tv ratings bet. A B12 with CT and a FL school would help Fox which has zero FL content and only moderate appeal with the B10 north of NJ.
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I'm sure they would love to get it at a lower price.
 
No one has ever been able to answer the question of why Iowa vs. Minnesota is worth 50x as much as UConn vs. Cincinnati if we are simply comparing value to TV. Any thoughts?
 
nelsonmuntz said:
No one has ever been able to answer the question of why Iowa vs. Minnesota is worth 50x as much as UConn vs. Cincinnati if we are simply comparing value to TV. Any thoughts?
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You are brilliant at engineering non-sequitors.

It isn't. But it doesn't have to be. The values of other matchups exceed 50x UConn vs. Cincinnati. UM vs. OSU for instance.

The per game price is a result of the average value of all the games.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
No one has ever been able to answer the question of why Iowa vs. Minnesota is worth 50x as much as UConn vs. Cincinnati if we are simply comparing value to TV. Any thoughts?
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Maybe because if you buy Iowa vs. Minnesota you also get the Ohio State vs. Michigan whereas if you buy UConn vs. Cincinnati you get Tulane vs. Tulsa with it.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
No one has ever been able to answer the question of why Iowa vs. Minnesota is worth 50x as much as UConn vs. Cincinnati if we are simply comparing value to TV. Any thoughts?
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Because it's not a straight one to one comparison. Iowa is part of a basket of goods, UConn has ended up in a different basket of goods with lesser value.

Individually, or in different baskets, they would have different values.
 
It looks like the networks are pushing the modern Big Ten/SEC model. Stretch out the market, not add more within already-staked states.

Can't see how UConn will be left out this time, if they expand by 4. We have too much going on here.
 
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I wonder what would happen if most resident of New England and New York start calling there cable subscribe and request to get basic cable without ESPN and FOX due to UConn not being in a P5 conference.... what presure would that put on this realignment process?? just a thought
 
It seems like there are three unknowns at this hour that will be hugely influential.

i) Does OU have a backup plan for 2025?
ii) Does UT really want join a conf in 2025 where it no longer is the big fish in a little bowl?
iii) What is the real view at FOX about a 4 team expansion and extending the GOR. Seems like they need EST content.

I think all three play a significant role in how FOX/ESPN and the B12 work together to resolve the expansion choices and reworked economics.
 
UCONN in OKC said:
I wonder what would happen if most resident of New England and New York start calling there cable subscribe and request to get basic cable without ESPN and FOX due to UConn not being in a P5 conference.... what presure would that put on this realignment process?? just a thought
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That doesn't make sense. Many UConn games are on ESPN despite not being in a P5 conference. I think almost half of the WBB games are carried by ESPN, and ESPN carries AAC football and many of our MBB games. Not to mention the tourney. Why should ESPN care if UConn is in a P5 conference? They are already carrying those games for bargain basement prices.
 
whaler11 said:
I'm sure they would love to get it at a lower price.
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HoopsFan21 said:
That doesn't make sense. Many UConn games are on ESPN despite not being in a P5 conference. I think almost half of the WBB games are carried by ESPN, and ESPN carries AAC football and many of our MBB games. Not to mention the tourney. Why should ESPN care if UConn is in a P5 conference? They are already carrying those games for bargain basement prices.
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ESPN makes a bundle of $$$$ on the AAC with UConn, if UConn leaves ESPN wrote in the contract, along with Cincy and maybe USF(?), ESPN will cancel the contract. How true this is who knows.
 
ESPN really can't go crying on expansion, and I don't understand why they told Ourland that, other than as a negotiating position.

When they signed the contract a few years ago, the idea was that the B12 would expand. But with who? Does ESPN think they were going to pick off the Pac12? Of course not. ACC? No--esp. since that was ESPN territory. So of course ESPN had known, back then, that the B12 was going to expand with G5 schools.

In other words, ESPN agreed to pay pro-rata for the B12 to add G5 schools.

This is why I draw two conclusions from this thread:

1. This is just a negotiating ploy for ESPN, or...
2. ESPN really doesn't like the choice(s)

But as for #2, ESPN signed that contract knowing the best 2 or 4 of the G5 would be added pro-rata. It could be ESPN simply feels Houston and Memphis are not fits.
 
ESPN is just doing what it does namely manipulating the college basketball market for it own benefit. While I don't think they have an active dislike for us, we've been "collateral damage" from a few of there money grabs.

Big 12 should go 4 and take the money and run.

Now some talking head like to talk about football driving the bus, but we all know it's money. Still if you are going for the cash grab you might as well take the programs that have the best chance at helping you down the road. UConn does that by giving access to last untapped college football market, the northeast. Academically, we'd be among the best (top 2) in the Big 12. As to sports, it is foolish to live and die with a year or two of football success as that fluctuates. The better marker, in my opinion, is athletic department strenght. There UConn shines. P5 budget - check. Success across a broard range of sports - check. Branding - look at our IMG and Nike deals - check.

If you are making a rational choice based on metrics, UConn is an easy choice. There's no guarantee that that will happen though.
 
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upstater said:
...ESPN signed that contract knowing the best 2 or 4 of the G5 would be added pro-rata. It could be ESPN simply feels Houston and Memphis are not fits.
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This. Since we (ESPN) have to pay for the additions, we want a say - or at least you will consider our input.
 
dayooper said:
Yet the continual "t-shirt" fans (fans that never attended the schools) mean nothing, but the band wagon fans of Miami mean everything? You focused on the alumni aspect of the Big10, but never mentioned the comparison of the markets of the Big12 vs the Big10? You then focused on everything that wasn't what the original discussion was about: The Big12 is overvalued. You go on and talk about The ACC (which is/was undervalued) and the SEC, which is either properly valued or undervalued, IMO.

You still haven't given any evidence that the Big12 is undervalued. Your only points are that FSU is willing to play anybody anywhere, Miami will be awesome when the bandwagon fans come back, Syracuse sells a lot of merchandise and that I'm wrong. You only give partial evidence of FSU playing anyone anywhere while trying to agitate me (bringing up the 1991 Michigan FSU game and that the only Big10 school you like is MSU). You provide no evidence for the next three points, but I can tell you that I have been and will be wrong about many things, just ask my wife.
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To make a long story short, I believe you are overvaluing the alumni base. Recall, FSU was a "girls school" until 1947. The base makes a difference in donations, sure, but not necessarily for TV viewers - UF has more alumni but we are a more popular national brand. FSU will be on Showtime this fall. Notre Dame was there last year. They wanted to start with FSU but the school wondered about objectivity but after seeing the ND series agreed.
And, yes, UF will still have more donors and a larger stadium.
 
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whaler11 said:
LOL so his sourced story is lies but the unsourced opinion story is correct.

You might want to read that quote yourself. Which 'story' is more likely to be true?

Your criteria seems to be which ever one you'd prefer to be true.
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Sources can have "axes to grind" - you really don't know the truth until everything "falls out" so to speak - as for me, I rely on my judgments.
 
atom58 said:
Sources can have "axes to grind" - you really don't know the truth until everything "falls out" so to speak - as for me, I rely on my judgments.
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LOL - his sources are from the networks intentionally planting the story with him.

But you go with just believing whatever you want to be true. The internet is perfect for you.
 
On last thing that occurs to me is that Fox and ESPN cannot pay the Big 12 NOT to expand - if they pay them at the rate of the SEC and Big 10 those conferences will be knocking on their doors. I have read that the Big 10 recent deal in particular is not "signed, sealed, and delivered" so in the short run could be renegotiated if they feel the Big 12 is overvalued by such a hypothetical increase. In that sense, the networks are trapped. It may be anyone's guess really but I believe that after all this the Big 12 will add 2 and very possibly 4 teams b/c they likely will not all agree on which two to add but if four are added each of the 10 voting members will get their 1st choice.
 
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whaler11 said:
LOL - his sources are from the networks intentionally planting the story with him.

But you go with just believing whatever you want to be true. The internet is perfect for you.
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I don't "rely" on the internet. I make my own judgements.
 
atom58 said:
To make a long story short, I believe you are overvaluing the alumni base. Recall, FSU was a "girls school" until 1947. The base makes a difference in donations, sure, but not necessarily for TV viewers - UF has more alumni but we are a more popular national brand. FSU will be on Showtime this fall. Notre Dame was there last year. They wanted to start with FSU but the school wondered about objectivity but after seeing the ND series agreed.
And, yes, UF will still have more donors and a larger stadium.
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Yes the alumni base is a small part of the equation, but the markets are an even a larger portion. Yet, it's the only part of my statement that you bringing up? It's small market base is what makes the Big12 overvalued. Remember, that was what your original statement was about, not FSU vs. UF and their alumni.
 
upstater said:
Tramel really doesn't give us any confidence with what he writes. So, ESPN was more than willing to see UConn added to P5 in 2012 AND 2014 but not now?
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Is this literally the first Tramel article you've read? He's been probably the most pro-UConn/Big 12 writer for months.
 
Just because he's pro-UConn doesn't mean I have confidence in what he writes. Guy contradicts himself constantly.
 
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