Big 12 TV partners push back on expansion

[CTMike]

Please give me a break, I'm trying to change and recognize my past failures. I simply asked for clarification and specifics.

Thanks Skiblets. This is very helpful because it is specific about the conferences they are working with. The ACC is the perfect fit, B1G next best and B12 certainly an upgrade.

Interesting to be an AD and Commissioner in these wild times.

This is your mea culpa after dedicating dozens of posts and an entire thread to skewer the guy? You're a jackass.

 

[whaler11]

@whaler11
FOX Continues Support for Big 12 Expansion with G5 Teams

Are you trying to claim an unsourced opinion piece on a blog no one has ever heard of somehow refutes reporting from an outlet that is completely connected to the networks?

 

[upstater]

This C. Austin Cox guy who wrote the Fox Sports piece has often been way out ahead of people. He has connections.

 

[huskymedic]

I'm trying to change and recognize my past failures.

Well, since you are trying to be born again... Can you please learn how to quote a thread and post below the quote, not above it?

 

[Exit 4]

Are you trying to claim an unsourced opinion piece on a blog no one has ever heard of somehow refutes reporting from an outlet that is completely connected to the networks?

MH ver3 also just corroborated the story with this daily twitter spiel - so good enough for me....when I like what I am hearing.

 

[FDNY99]

Are you trying to claim an unsourced opinion piece on a blog no one has ever heard of somehow refutes reporting from an outlet that is completely connected to the networks?

I posted that link so you could read it if you want...I'm not trying to claim You and I have gone at it before..you know if I have a problem with what you say I will say something to you. But I am going to ask you this question...you throw out a lot of info about tv $$ and networks...do you work for ESPN?

 

[atom58]

Of course they have the big three. I have long said that my ideal add to the Big10 would be Oklahama and UConn. That being said, the Big12 is very overvalued. Let's look at what assets they have. Texas and Oklahoma are crowning jewels of the Big12 and they are located in Texas. Kansas is a blueblood in basketball. That's it. No one cares about the other schools nationally. They don't care about Baylor or TCU. Several years ago, when Mike Leach was at Texas Tech, they were really good, BCS good. Leach got fired and Texas Tech is an afterthought. Sounds like what is happening at Baylor. OSU? Been pretty good over the last few years, even getting robbed out of a BCS championship game (they lost a game day after a plane crash killed the girls basketball coach and one of his assistants. It was their only loss of the season). Yet they have no pull nationally.

You rip on Maryland, Rutgers and other Big10 teams, yet you fail to realize why the Big10 got paid what they did. They have a huge alumni base that follows their school where ever they are. They have the flagship schools in five states that have at least 9 million people that reside there. In Ohio, Illinois, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Maryland and Nebraska, they have the only P5 school in the state (the Big12 can only say that about West Virginia). They have the flagship schools in ten states (I'm not including Indiana because of ND, but IU is the technically the flagship). The Big10 has schools in 3 of the top 4 and 14 of the top 50 media markets. The crossover is at a minimum. Only Chicago (Illinois and NW) and Detroit along with Grand Rapids (Michigan and MSU) are covered by more than one Big10 school. The Big12? They have 6 of the top 50 media markets, four of those in Texas alone. Those Texas markets are covered by four schools.

They have football kings in Michigan, Ohio State and, no matter what you think of them, PSU. They also have a top 10 winningest program in Nebraska. They have a basketball blueblood in Indiana, an almost blueblood in MSU and final four teams in Michigan, OSU, Wisconsin and MSU in the past ten years, only missing 3 of those (2016, 2011 and 2006). Big12? Kansas in 2012 and 2008. That's it.

You may say that the Big10 was overpaid, and time may show they were. It was an investment that both Fox and ESPN made. ESPN chose to invest in Texas and the Big12 exists because they did.

I don't agree that the Big 12 is overvalued. Given the recent Fox and ESPN largess with the Big 10(14), a game like Wisconsin vs. Minnesota would be worth more than comparable games in the SEC, ACC, Pac12, and Big 12(10) which is simply not true. Also it is in error to assume that only alumni watch these games on TV - there are bandwagon fans and when Miami "comes back" as they inevitably will with their new coaching staff and potent S. Fla recruiting area, you will see them become one of the most watched teams on TV although they are a small private school about the size of ND. Look at sales of sports merchandise - FSU and Syracuse are high on those lists. FSU was the Florida State College for Women until 1947. It has made its reputation by playing anyone anywhere including a terrific victory over Michigan at Ann Arbor in 1991. Frankly the only Big 10 team I like is Michigan State and I did see them play in a losing effort in Tallahassee. Anyway this is a site for UConn fans and I won't add more other than to wish them good luck.

 

[atom58]

No, Fox hasn't spoken to any schools. The Big 12 has been flirting with Memphis and Houston, which neither Fox or ESPN want (I don't think ESPN wants any expansion).

Fox wants schools in the eastern time zone (UCF, Cincy, UConn).

Texas is the only player here that wants Houston. In this case, I seriously doubt they get their wish.

Referring to this story: FOX Continues Support for Big 12 Expansion with G5 Teams

This is a good article which shows this is really about Fox vs. ESPN. If the Big 12 take 2-4 AAC teams it hurts ESPN's inventory of teams (the AAC though underpaid is generally considered the best G5 conference > MAC, MWC, C-USA, Sunbelt) and brings Fox more into the Eastern time zone as a competitor. I feel sure this is the first media story that is completely true for this reason alone: Raycom has had a long history with the ACC as a syndicator of FB and BB games and is to continue in that role until 2019 through its syndicated over-the-air "ACC Network" - now Raycom pays ESPN annually $50 MILLION for some of the Tier 3 rights and yet Raycom still sublicensed 17 football games and 25 basketball games to Fox, which carried the games on its regional sports networks (RSNs). There is a great demand for sports on broadcast and cable TV, and a limited inventory.

 

[whaler11]

I posted that link so you could read it if you want...I'm not trying to claim You and I have gone at it before..you know if I have a problem with what you say I will say something to you. But I am going to ask you this question...you throw out a lot of info about tv $$ and networks...do you work for ESPN?

No. I just find the industry interesting.

I spent years as the strategic financial lead on business deals about the same size as these (granted they weren't for these amount of years). I spent 2-3 years specifically working in a segment of the business where we were selling to organizations that were set up like a conference. So I've seen the dynamics at play and I have seen how they often make less than ideal decisions and how the power struggle leads them to 'compromises' that harm them.

 

[whaler11]

Referring to this story: FOX Continues Support for Big 12 Expansion with G5 Teams

This is a good article which shows this is really about Fox vs. ESPN. If the Big 12 take 2-4 AAC teams it hurts ESPN's inventory of teams (the AAC though underpaid is generally considered the best G5 conference > MAC, MWC, C-USA, Sunbelt) and brings Fox more into the Eastern time zone as a competitor. I feel sure this is the first media story that is completely true for this reason alone: Raycom has had a long history with the ACC as a syndicator of FB and BB games and is to continue in that role until 2019 through its syndicated over-the-air "ACC Network" - now Raycom pays ESPN annually $50 MILLION for some of the Tier 3 rights and yet Raycom still sublicensed 17 football games and 25 basketball games to Fox, which carried the games on its regional sports networks (RSNs). There is a great demand for sports on broadcast and cable TV, and a limited inventory.

So you think an opinion piece from a unknown blog is more credible than a piece written by John Ourland in the Sports Business Daily.

Ourland is the best sourced journalist on the sports business beat.

Someone no one has heard of on a site that no one reads writes and opinion piece and that is more credible... because you like what it says? I really need someone to explain to me how that article can possibly refute someone who Fox would intentionally leak information to?

 

[FDNY99]

So you think an opinion piece from a unknown blog is more credible than a piece written by John Ourland in the Sports Business Daily.

Ourland is the best sourced journalist on the sports business beat.

Someone no one has heard of on a site that no one reads writes and opinion piece and that is more credible... because you like what it says? I really need someone to explain to me how that article can possibly refute someone who Fox would intentionally leak information to?

John Ourland had some VERY interesting things to say about market "ownership" the other day on XM College sports radio while discussing his article. He basically touted UConn as only school that "owned" it's entire market and had good penetration into another one (NYC).

 

[dayooper]

I don't agree that the Big 12 is overvalued. Given the recent Fox and ESPN largess with the Big 10(14), a game like Wisconsin vs. Minnesota would be worth more than comparable games in the SEC, ACC, Pac12, and Big 12(10) which is simply not true. Also it is in error to assume that only alumni watch these games on TV - there are bandwagon fans and when Miami "comes back" as they inevitably will with their new coaching staff and potent S. Fla recruiting area, you will see them become one of the most watched teams on TV although they are a small private school about the size of ND. Look at sales of sports merchandise - FSU and Syracuse are high on those lists. FSU was the Florida State College for Women until 1947. It has made its reputation by playing anyone anywhere including a terrific victory over Michigan at Ann Arbor in 1991. Frankly the only Big 10 team I like is Michigan State and I did see them play in a losing effort in Tallahassee. Anyway this is a site for UConn fans and I won't add more other than to wish them good luck.

So you completely missed the point about being the only one school covering large markets and then ramble on about the Florida market and the merchandise greatness of Syracuse. Speechless.

 

[31GuardTrap]

Just throwing this out there. I don't claim to know everything or even a whole lot but....
if.....if ESPN truly is annoyed as these articles claim, assuming they know the Big 12 wants UConn, could they possibly pull a 180 and direct the ACC to take UConn to stick it to Fox and the Big 12? I know everyone thinks ESPN hates the Huskies but they are in fact business folks. THEY could say to the ACC, here's X amount of $. Take it. I wonder if even with the new deal signed, they alone could still do that?
I have no idea...so I guess I'm asking.

 

[noeynox]

Just throwing this out there. I don't claim to know everything or even a whole lot but....
if.....if ESPN truly is annoyed as these articles claim, assuming they know the Big 12 wants UConn, could they possibly pull a 180 and direct the ACC to take UConn to stick it to Fox and the Big 12? I know everyone thinks ESPN hates the Huskies but they are in fact business folks. THEY could say to the ACC, here's X amount of $. Take it. I wonder if even with the new deal signed, they alone could still do that?
I have no idea...so I guess I'm asking.

Could they do it? Sure, but now the leverage is with the ACC. If espn wanted that, they simply could have lobbied to have that ACC add us b4 giving them their conference network.

Espn loves having content like UConn's womens ball, that they can throw on ESPNU and get decent ratings, without having to pay much for it. It's good business for them. I think our women could help FS2, a whole lot.

 

[NickyNewark]

So you completely missed the point about being the only one school covering large markets and then ramble on about the Florida market and the merchandise greatness of Syracuse. Speechless.

I live in the Albany area in NY and don't remember seeing ANY Cuse merchandise anywhere in anyplac in the Capitol region......not even a car sticker? Maybe I need to travel almost 200 miles west to Syracuse to see it? The hordes must be hoarding them or the FSU stuff covers it up?

 

[ramses 2.0]

Just throwing this out there. I don't claim to know everything or even a whole lot but....
if.....if ESPN truly is annoyed as these articles claim, assuming they know the Big 12 wants UConn, could they possibly pull a 180 and direct the ACC to take UConn to stick it to Fox and the Big 12? I know everyone thinks ESPN hates the Huskies but they are in fact business folks. THEY could say to the ACC, here's X amount of $. Take it. I wonder if even with the new deal signed, they alone could still do that?
I have no idea...so I guess I'm asking.

I doubt ESPN is willing to write a check big enough to get FSU & CLE among others to back any expansion that's not considered a home run. You have some factions within the ACC who value markets& broad based athletic programs & others who value performance in revenue producing sports particularly football since basketball is already strong. At minimum they want programs that add depth to middle tier & expand the recruiting base if possible.

 

[Jimdish255]

ESPN is twisting itself into a pretzel because a high margin property like the AAC might possibly end up being the league they're actually paying for, instead of the bargain basement gem they paid pennies for at the thrift shop. So now you have to publicly devalue your own teams in order to save that revenue generator for ESPN2 and the U. The problem is the B12 knows the values contained in the study they commissioned and it's far from the perception ESPN seems willing to shape. That's why I'm largely in agreement with fans and public officials letting them know we're not just monitoring this time around.

 

[atom58]

So you completely missed the point about being the only one school covering large markets and then ramble on about the Florida market and the merchandise greatness of Syracuse. Speechless.

No, you were the one erroneously extolling the large alumni bases of the Big 10(14) and missing the impact of bandwagon fans extending the interest in teams.

 

[atom58]

So you think an opinion piece from a unknown blog is more credible than a piece written by John Ourland in the Sports Business Daily.

Ourland is the best sourced journalist on the sports business beat.

Someone no one has heard of on a site that no one reads writes and opinion piece and that is more credible... because you like what it says? I really need someone to explain to me how that article can possibly refute someone who Fox would intentionally leak information to?

Like most "journalists" on the Internet, he has an axe to grind. There is that old French saying, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see".

 

[CL82]

Just throwing this out there. I don't claim to know everything or even a whole lot but....
if.....if ESPN truly is annoyed as these articles claim, assuming they know the Big 12 wants UConn, could they possibly pull a 180 and direct the ACC to take UConn to stick it to Fox and the Big 12? I know everyone thinks ESPN hates the Huskies but they are in fact business folks. THEY could say to the ACC, here's X amount of $. Take it. I wonder if even with the new deal signed, they alone could still do that?
I have no idea...so I guess I'm asking.

You might want to email that idea to this guy:

John Skipper

President, ESPN, Inc.; Co-Chairman, Disney Media Networks

Since taking the helm as ESPN President and Co-Chairman, Disney Media Networks on January 1, 2012, John Skipper has secured ESPN’s leadership position in the crowded sports media landscape into the next decade with bold moves and a commitment to live championship events delivered across every available platform, including a rapidly growing focus on digital and mobile applications.

Skipper has charged the ESPN workforce “to think like an insurgent and not like an incumbent” as they continue to fulfill the company’s mission “to serve sports fans anytime, anywhere.”

Most noteworthy, Skipper has led ESPN to a series of long-term, multiplatform agreements with major rightsholders (all through at least 2021) and distributors:

• Major League Baseball, the College Football Playoff, NBA, ACC, Big 12, US Open tennis, Rose, Sugar and Orange Bowls, WNBA, American Athletic Conference, Mountain West Conference
• In addition, ESPN and the SEC announced a 20-year agreement to create and operate the ESPN SEC Network and digital platforms, while extending the existing media rights agreement through 2034.
• Cablevision, Cox Communications, Charter Communications, AT&T U-Verse, National Rural Telecommunications Cooperative (NTRC), National Telco Television Consortium (NTTC), National Cable Television Cooperative (NCTC), Suddenlink, Mediacom, DIRECTV, DISH (including their innovative Sling TV broadband video subscription service) and multi-stream DMVPD service Sony PlayStation Vue.

Skipper holds bachelor’s and master’s degrees in English Literature from the University of North Carolina and Columbia University, respectively. He joined ESPN in 1997 and had served as executive vice president, content, prior to being named president.

 

[whaler11]

Like most "journalists" on the Internet, he has an axe to grind. There is that old French saying, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see".

LOL so his sourced story is lies but the unsourced opinion story is correct.

You might want to read that quote yourself. Which 'story' is more likely to be true?

Your criteria seems to be which ever one you'd prefer to be true.

 

[dayooper]

No, you were the one erroneously extolling the large alumni bases of the Big 10(14) and missing the impact of bandwagon fans extending the interest in teams.

Yet the continual "t-shirt" fans (fans that never attended the schools) mean nothing, but the band wagon fans of Miami mean everything? You focused on the alumni aspect of the Big10, but never mentioned the comparison of the markets of the Big12 vs the Big10? You then focused on everything that wasn't what the original discussion was about: The Big12 is overvalued. You go on and talk about The ACC (which is/was undervalued) and the SEC, which is either properly valued or undervalued, IMO.

You still haven't given any evidence that the Big12 is undervalued. Your only points are that FSU is willing to play anybody anywhere, Miami will be awesome when the bandwagon fans come back, Syracuse sells a lot of merchandise and that I'm wrong. You only give partial evidence of FSU playing anyone anywhere while trying to agitate me (bringing up the 1991 Michigan FSU game and that the only Big10 school you like is MSU). You provide no evidence for the next three points, but I can tell you that I have been and will be wrong about many things, just ask my wife.

 

[dayooper]

Like most "journalists" on the Internet, he has an axe to grind. There is that old French saying, "believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see".

You know why you can never trust an atom? Because they make up everything.

 

[Vowelguy]

I doubt ESPN is willing to write a check big enough to get FSU & CLE among others to back any expansion that's not considered a home run. You have some factions within the ACC who value markets& broad based athletic programs & others who value performance in revenue producing sports particularly football since basketball is already strong. At minimum they want programs that add depth to middle tier & expand the recruiting base if possible.

I would think the ACC should have some interest in keeping the B12 out of the Northeast.

 

[Stinger92860]

If we agree to play home games in NYC, that will drive exposure in the papers and on the the radio in NYC. SNY will provide pre-game coverage. We have to offer this. No other available school can bring this option. For football Texas and Oklahoma; For bball, Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas. Add the wbb team and make it a double header.