Big 12 meets, develops vague expansion non-plan

[The Funster]

The UNC/Duke rivalry transcends basketball. Those two are not splitting.

 

[B1GEast]

Love the fact the Swofford is silent, he's probably in the fetal position wondering how this happened.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

What is becoming clearer is that none of the schools the Big 12 would want are interested in the Big 12.

Here is the funny thing about the ACC. The schools that have value (Florida State, North Carolina, Clemson) seem awfully interested in staying exactly where they are. There is a reason Rutgers got invited to the Big 10.

I do not think North Carolina will leave the ACC unless so many other schools left that it was unrecognizable.

Do you think any ACC school actually said "no" to the Big 10? Really?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I stick by my prediction once the ACC Network was announced. The ACC is going to get enough more money to keep everyone in their seat. The only way UConn gets saved is if ESPN tells the ACC that UConn is worth $25MM to the league's TV contract. Otherwise, SMU, Memphis and Tulane will be on UConn's conference schedule 10 years from now.

 

[gioff23]

I don't envy UNC. They'd likely be very happy remaining in the ACC. But they are at a showdown with the 2 conferences with power (one on the field, one off) who are saying we want you, but to be fair, we we could be just as happy with one of your classmates - there's GT over there and they could add Atlanta; there's the red-headed stepchild NCSt over on the other side and we both want new markets; heck Big Jim could take Syracuse before they ever got to the ACC and really own the NY market. Now, you can come, but that private school down the street well they add nothing to the revenue side (and that's all we have in BIG country) or on the field (hell, boy, they darn now suck and have you seen that excuse of a stadium - I wouldn't throw no road kill on a bbq there). So, you can stay in the ACC and hold on to your rivalry with the Dukies or watch the SEC come in to your backyard and skin you alive or .........

 

[specialisthusky]

I stick by my prediction once the ACC Network was announced. The ACC is going to get enough more money to keep everyone in their seat. The only way UConn gets saved is if ESPN tells the ACC that UConn is worth $25MM to the league's TV contract. Otherwise, SMU, Memphis and Tulane will be on UConn's conference schedule 10 years from now.

I do not understand how an acc network will change anything. The tier 3 rights are owned by espn so the schools have no content to sell and profit off of through this network. Are thinking the acc will renegotiate and allow tier 3 rights to the conference members?

 

[B1GEast]

Do you think any ACC school actually said "no" to the Big 10? Really?

Nelson, FWIW, there are rumors that an acc team said no to the big 10, I wasn't there so I can't confirm, who knows.

 

[The Funster]

UNC would not move to the B1G from what I understand.

 

[whaler11]

Do you think any ACC school actually said "no" to the Big 10? Really?

Well they invited Rutgers. So yeah I think they may be having trouble talking a UVA or UNC into joining. It sounds like Maryland wasn't an easy sell either. Maybe they are waiting to see the lawsuit play out, but I think that most of the ACC schools would prefer to stay if they can.

 

[RMoore1999]

As it relates to UNC, focus on the politics of Realignment should be more on NCST, as opposed to Duke. UNC and State are governed by the same Board of Governors. While UNC goes nowhere without a soft landing guaranteed for NCST (b12 or Sec), UNC / Duke can play 4 non-conference games a year in hoops if that really turns them/espn on.

 

[huskyjawz]

I don't envy UNC. They'd likely be very happy remaining in the ACC. But they are at a showdown with the 2 conferences with power (one on the field, one off) who are saying we want you, but to be fair, we we could be just as happy with one of your classmates - there's GT over there and they could add Atlanta; there's the red-headed stepchild NCSt over on the other side and we both want new markets; heck Big Jim could take Syracuse before they ever got to the ACC and really own the NY market. Now, you can come, but that private school down the street well they add nothing to the revenue side (and that's all we have in BIG country) or on the field (hell, boy, they darn now suck and have you seen that excuse of a stadium - I wouldn't throw no road kill on a bbq there). So, you can stay in the ACC and hold on to your rivalry with the Dukies or watch the SEC come in to your backyard and skin you alive or .........

I do envy UNC.

 

[RMoore1999]

what the b12 did today was coem out of the closet and admit they are 4th best. they are not better than the acc but they have texalhoma and they have a gor so they win the 4th place. what they told everyone today was they eventually need to add but becuase the spread between them and the acc isn't big enough, they need others to do work for them to then do work. they screwed the pooch perception wise. they will live but live thru the sec/b10.

what they confirmed? is that unc is going south and uva is going north and the line will be drawn somewhere in the hills on VA where moonshine and john deers are the daily catch. the b12 can't be powerful until others are set in power.

i smell unc/vt to the sec
b10 to add uva plus a north east school
then its question of who the b12 can get to bite and how many. wvu crew will never admit it, but it is what it is.

uconn leadership has to fight bc now or never. perception and marketing the school vs a golden boy up north. one of us will get the call. i have no faith in leadership, they need to prove to me they give a dam.

Dan, putting aside the concern over Connecticut's leadership for a moment, why are you so convinced that BC is a viable candidate for the B1G? I don't see it.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'll save you the time - you can search all year and you won't find what you've claimed.

So, again, don't presume to tell me what I think because you clearly have no idea.

North Carolina and Duke co-exist on levels well past basketball. And it's not what's important to us, it's what's important to them. They're nine miles apart, you can't spend time at one without seeing evidence of the other, they've even played about 100 football games going back to the 1890's - there is a cultural tie there that won't be 'realigned' by conference athletics. (Apparently, the football rivalry was nasty as well until they both decided to suck more often than not.)

And Duke is a really easy pill to swallow if you get North Carolina to sign on the dotted line. (Both are AAU...)

I completely understand and agree with all of this. But here's the challenge: Duke has a predominantly northern outlook, with lots of kids from NY, NJ, MA, etc. UNC, despite attracting kids from out of state, has mostly southern kids and culture. So while I think they really really want to stay together, I think there is zero chance that UNC goes to the B1G. I think Duke would prefer it and wants nothing to do with the SEC. So their interests, other than keeping the ACC intact, are diverging.

So if the offer comes to UVA and Duke to jump to the B1G, and Duke thinks UNC is headed to the SEC...what's their move?

 

[UConnJim]

Although our current conference position is not ideal, there is another major issue that people are not talking about. Private universities playing major college football. If you look at the top 5 conferences + ND, there are currently 11 private universities playing major college football, and 5 of them are in the ACC. Over time, each of these schools will have to self evaluate their commitment to playing high level football.

First, look at the attendance (from 2011):

Notre Dame: 80,795
Stanford: 49,997
Miami: 48,654
Baylor: 41,368
Syracuse: 40,504
BC: 35,709
TCU: 33,686
Northwestern: 33,442
Vanderbilt: 32,873
Wake Forest: 31,967
Duke: 24,393

Next, think about football stadiums. How many of these schools can afford or can commit to do a major upgrade or replace their football stadiums? ND, Stanford, Baylor, TCU, probably Vandy

In addition, how many of these schools are big football draws on TV? Notre Dame and Miami. In a pay cable channel or pay per view world, how many of these schools can lock up their local geography? Maybe a couple.

As college presidents and BOTs look to the future, they not only have to think about their school's position in the future, but those of their current conference mates. If I was UNC, I would look at the private schools and think they are not the right conference mates in 10 to 20 years. Duke is attractive to conferences for a number of reasons, but they have to decide if they want to and can they compete in football LT. For Duke, competing against BC, WF, Syracuse, Virginia, UNC,... means that they can still try to compete in football, but they are not going to be competitive and they probably wouldn't want to try in the SEC or Big 1G.

 

[Hoophound]

Duke is wealthy and can compete if they wish but others probably won't be able to long term. Ultimately, UConn's best asset is that it is a flagship state U. UConn will get into a major conference. It may happen as consolidation occurs over several years as a few privates get left out, but it will happen. I am pretty sure we will pass BC, Cuse and Wake etc. in due time, but we have to keep fighting for as long as it takes. If we let up or maintain the status quo, we'll miss our chance. We have got to be deadly serious about sports and AAU status.

 

[mcs333]

As it relates to UNC, focus on the politics of Realignment should be more on NCST, as opposed to Duke. UNC and State are governed by the same Board of Governors. While UNC goes nowhere without a soft landing guaranteed for NCST (b12 or Sec), UNC / Duke can play 4 non-conference games a year in hoops if that really turns them/espn on.

You are exactly right. They will leave together or at least be assured that both end up in very good situations. Several years back the BOG step in and told UNC and NCST that they will play ECU to help strengthen their FB schedule when UNC and ST wanted to drop them.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Although our current conference position is not ideal, there is another major issue that people are not talking about. Private universities playing major college football. If you look at the top 5 conferences + ND, there are currently 11 private universities playing major college football, and 5 of them are in the ACC. Over time, each of these schools will have to self evaluate their commitment to playing high level football.

First, look at the attendance (from 2011):

Notre Dame: 80,795
Stanford: 49,997
Miami: 48,654
Baylor: 41,368
Syracuse: 40,504
BC: 35,709
TCU: 33,686
Northwestern: 33,442
Vanderbilt: 32,873
Wake Forest: 31,967
Duke: 24,393

Next, think about football stadiums. How many of these schools can afford or can commit to do a major upgrade or replace their football stadiums? ND, Stanford, Baylor, TCU, probably Vandy

In addition, how many of these schools are big football draws on TV? Notre Dame and Miami. In a pay cable channel or pay per view world, how many of these schools can lock up their local geography? Maybe a couple.

As college presidents and BOTs look to the future, they not only have to think about their school's position in the future, but those of their current conference mates. If I was UNC, I would look at the private schools and think they are not the right conference mates in 10 to 20 years. Duke is attractive to conferences for a number of reasons, but they have to decide if they want to and can they compete in football LT. For Duke, competing against BC, WF, Syracuse, Virginia, UNC,... means that they can still try to compete in football, but they are not going to be competitive and they probably wouldn't want to try in the SEC or Big 1G.

I think you missed the University of Southern California. Might bump the attendance numbers a bit.

 

[SubbaBub]

BC and Wake are the only possibles. Everyone else is fine long term assuming Miami is allowed to field a team.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RS9999X]

It's possible the research triangle hangs tough and the 3 are Inseparable. Not likely IMHO

Sent from my Lumia 920 via Windows 8. Now bite me Apple Droids.

 

[CL82]

I stick by my prediction once the ACC Network was announced. The ACC is going to get enough more money to keep everyone in their seat. The only way UConn gets saved is if ESPN tells the ACC that UConn is worth $25MM to the league's TV contract. Otherwise, SMU, Memphis and Tulane will be on UConn's conference schedule 10 years from now.

Yep.

 

[ZooCougar]

You are exactly right. They will leave together or at least be assured that both end up in very good situations. Several years back the BOG step in and told UNC and NCST that they will play ECU to help strengthen their FB schedule when UNC and ST wanted to drop them.

Interesting.

I guess we have to entertain the possibility that it is quite possible that every ACC school rebuffs advances made by the B1G, the SEC, and the Big 12.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well they invited Rutgers. So yeah I think they may be having trouble talking a UVA or UNC into joining. It sounds like Maryland wasn't an easy sell either. Maybe they are waiting to see the lawsuit play out, but I think that most of the ACC schools would prefer to stay if they can.

Rutgers was always part of the plan. It will get the BTN higher carriage fees in NJ and NY than GTech would probably be able to get in Georgia once the SEC Network goes online. I think the B1G is evaluating the southern schools very carefully because once the SEC Network goes live, it will become dominant in the South, even in ACC states. Why would the B1G expand just to be second fiddle in a state?

That is why BCU is even in the conversation for B1G expansion.

 

[John Greene]

Although our current conference position is not ideal, there is another major issue that people are not talking about. Private universities playing major college football. If you look at the top 5 conferences + ND, there are currently 11 private universities playing major college football, and 5 of them are in the ACC. Over time, each of these schools will have to self evaluate their commitment to playing high level football.

First, look at the attendance (from 2011):

Notre Dame: 80,795
Stanford: 49,997
Miami: 48,654
Baylor: 41,368
Syracuse: 40,504
BC: 35,709
TCU: 33,686
Northwestern: 33,442
Vanderbilt: 32,873
Wake Forest: 31,967
Duke: 24,393

Next, think about football stadiums. How many of these schools can afford or can commit to do a major upgrade or replace their football stadiums? ND, Stanford, Baylor, TCU, probably Vandy

In addition, how many of these schools are big football draws on TV? Notre Dame and Miami. In a pay cable channel or pay per view world, how many of these schools can lock up their local geography? Maybe a couple.

As college presidents and BOTs look to the future, they not only have to think about their school's position in the future, but those of their current conference mates. If I was UNC, I would look at the private schools and think they are not the right conference mates in 10 to 20 years. Duke is attractive to conferences for a number of reasons, but they have to decide if they want to and can they compete in football LT. For Duke, competing against BC, WF, Syracuse, Virginia, UNC,... means that they can still try to compete in football, but they are not going to be competitive and they probably wouldn't want to try in the SEC or Big 1G.

Substitute USC for Miami and UNC would be willing to sign up with that group any day of the week and trice on Sunday. UNC sees itself as a private school that has the misfortune to be public.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Interesting.

I guess we have to entertain the possibility that it is quite possible that every ACC school rebuffs advances made by the B1G, the SEC, and the Big 12.

It is almost certainly in their best interest to do so. Right now, some of their better historical football programs are down (Miami, VT and BC) and will likely improve. Clemson has been very good. GT and NC St. show improvement and UNC will come out of the penalty box. Louisville is good right now, and Syracuse has improved. The contract sucks, but the ACC's overall value and clout will never be lower. ND will help bump the strength of schedule and BCS rankings. The future looks pretty bright, if they can hold on.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I do not understand how an acc network will change anything. The tier 3 rights are owned by espn so the schools have no content to sell and profit off of through this network. Are thinking the acc will renegotiate and allow tier 3 rights to the conference members?

ESPN knows it has to find more money for the ACC or that league is going to split apart. The collapse of the Big East has turned into a debacle for ESPN and they are not going to let that happen again. they have upped the TV rights for the ACC to roughly $285MM/year from $160MM/ year already for adding Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt and Notre Dame football. Does that look like the investment decision of a network that is getting ready to walk away? Do you think they will let the whole thing come apart over an extra $50 or $100 million? ESPN is like Gordon Gekko trying to buy Blue Star Airlines. ESPN wants in at a 45 degree angle and I mean all the way in. They have no choice.

I think it is optically better for ESPN to run this through an ACC Network than simply give the ACC more cash.