B1G

[Kolumbo]

In honor of UCONN Hockey and the brass bonanza...that is correct!

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

B1G added Hopkins for lacrosse so they could have a 6 team league & get an automatic qualifier to the NCAA tournament.

Same reason Penn St became the 6th hockey school

You say that so casually, Bobby. It's Johns 'Freakin' Hopkins. I know it's just LAX at the moment (and they are very, very good), but if B1G can arrange some kind of acedemic hook up, like Chicago in CIC, it would be a coup. Relationships must start somewhere. I know this board is re: athletics, the the B1G is much more about acedemics. That's why OK won't get into B1G.

 

[WestHartHusk]

God damn it that song is so damn fantastic!

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

You say that so casually, Bobby. It's Johns 'Freakin' Hopkins. I know it's just LAX at the moment (and they are very, very good), but if B1G can arrange some kind of academic hook up, like Chicago in CIC, it would be a coup. Relationships must start somewhere. I know this board is re: athletics, the the B1G is much more about academics. That's why OK won't get into B1G.

re: Wiki..."Johns Hopkins University, according to one report, will apply for membership in the CIC." If true, that's money in the bank. JHU brings in a ton of grant and research money. Wiki may not be the most reliable source on the planet, but there it is.

 

[pj]

If the B1G truly won't expand without AAU, that's bad news for UConn. It's even bad news for Kansas, since they wouldn't be invited to the AAU with their current metrics, and as Nebraska shows, could be vulnerable to pruning. If AAU is essential, then there's UVa, UNC, Missouri, Texas, and not much else.

UConn, Va Tech, Kansas, and Oklahoma are all one tier down academically and are much more logical and available expansion candidates. So the B1G will have to make up their mind about priorities.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

Well, actually, I'm new here...

Welcome to this little zone of insanity.

FYI, I'm not one of those "will never happen" ACC fans. The last five years has shown that anything can happen and that schools will move for whatever reason, regardless of history and tradition.

With that said, you'd have a much better chance with VT than with UVa. UVa, like UNC and Duke, is truly ACC to the core. Syracuse, BC, probably Pitt (you should keep them in reserve in case PSU does the shocking thing and switch) and Louisville basically have no better home than the ACC. They know that the flagship-obsessed conferences will never touch them. The ACC is their home for the long term. Schools like GT, FSU, Miami and Clemson are poor fits for the Big Ten (and, except for FSU, the SEC as well). NC State would be an interesting possibility, if you overlook the cultural issues and lack of AAU designation.

If you have to expand again, I think that one school from the Big Twelve would have to be included, so as to not alienate the plains heartland schools. Go too far East and they'd start asking themselves some questions. I'd look at Kansas as a real possibility down the road, assuming that they can keep their AAU status, which will be vital for them if they want to have a stable home long term. Then it becomes between VT and UConn. Despite the wishes of the Husky fans here, I just don't think the Big Ten is ever interested in Connecticut, for several reasons. One, they can't add two basketball-centered programs. The football faction would be P'Oed. Ohio State would not like it. There has to be a football component, either with a program or with the recruiting territory that comes with it (NJ). Second, the BTN model depends on having a large population of young people in new states. Virginia simply has more people than Connecticut (as well as than Kansas, but Kansas is regionally compatible, which is the big difference). Third, demographic changes make Virginia a little more open to the Big Ten than 30 years ago. However, that doesn't overcome the loyalty UVa has to the ACC but VT would be more open to the possibility and VT's academics isn't too far from AAU quality.

It would be interesting which happens first, VT to B1G or PSU to ACC. I still think, when everything is said and done, that UConn goes to the ACC and the resentful Husky fans here will find that it is the best home for the program.

 

[pj]

@CoastAtlantic, I don't think the B1G thinks the way you think they think. They are building the BTN out and are thinking markets and year-round programming. Football is great but they may have accepted that football supremacy has permanently moved south, for weather and demographic reasons. UConn dominates a top-21 market, and provides proximity and penetration into the #1 and #7 markets. New England + New York has 35 million people and only one public flagship that plays high level athletics, and only two privates. It is the big unclaimed market of college sports. Virginia has more people than Connecticut, but far fewer than New England, much less New England plus New York, and Virginia is split in its loyalties; the ACC and SEC will always claim Virginia fans. The northeast has no SEC and Syracuse and BC carry minimal draw for the ACC.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Did I catch you on the University of Chicago... a lot of people aren't aware of this affiliation with the B1G through the CIC. Of course Chicago was once part of what is now the B1G...that I'm sure you knew. Just trying to keep you on your toes...

Anyone know if Johns Hopkins is going to get access to the CIC through it's B1G affiliation for lacrosse. U Chicago (US News #4) and Hopkins (US News #12) are very similar. Such a relationship should be beneficial to all parties.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

Anyone know if Johns Hopkins is going to get access to the CIC through it's B1G affiliation for lacrosse. U Chicago (US News #4) and Hopkins (US News #12) are very similar. Such a relationship should be beneficial to all parties.

Can't find the answer re: CIC membership for JHU. Sent email to CIC to inquire. Believe there is already some cross breading going on but I hope to know more soon.

 

[CL82]

To the best of my knowledge B1G divides BTN revenue equally (notwithstanding newer members)...take with a grain of salt: I also said they didn't play hockey in Nebraska !

I think I've heard otherwise but don't have the chance to look it up right now.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

If the B1G truly won't expand without AAU, that's bad news for UConn. It's even bad news for Kansas, since they wouldn't be invited to the AAU with their current metrics, and as Nebraska shows, could be vulnerable to pruning. If AAU is essential, then there's UVa, UNC, Missouri, Texas, and not much else.

UConn, Va Tech, Kansas, and Oklahoma are all one tier down academically and are much more logical and available expansion candidates. So the B1G will have to make up their mind about priorities.

Believe they have made up their minds. Johns Hopkins generated over $1 billion in grants and research monies in 2011 - #1 in the country. Pretty sure that was more important than LAX to B1G presidents. Kansas is in AAU club - since 1909. Unless they pull a Nebraska they should be good to go B1G. Problem is any new member needs to bring in mega-grant and research monies. Duke, UNC, GT are good. UT is probably fine, but didn't see their name on the list of top earners. Mizzou is not a top earner but should have been in B1G already. I truly believe UConn goes to ACC...in time.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

They want to build the brand, but hockey is not a universal B1G activity. Only six members (I believe) have teams, and they would be the usual suspects - Wis., MI., MN, MSU, OSU and PSU. (Hockey in Nebraska? That's probably not a thing.) There are also a lot of regional college teams who play great hockey as well. Anyway, to the best of my knowledge, no conference ever expanded for want of an additional hockey team...no matter the quality. It's a plum, after the fact. (Put the biscuit in the basket, baby!)

Having a strong hockey team in a good TV and recruiting market for the sport (CY/New England), is not as important tot he B1G as football; but, it is a check in UConn's favor. There have been rumors that once Rutgers gets its financial house in order (my Rutgers alumni friends all agree that it will not be in our lifetimes), Rutgers will be pushed by the B1G to add hockey.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

B1G added Hopkins for lacrosse so they could have a 6 team league & get an automatic qualifier to the NCAA tournament.

Same reason Penn St became the 6th hockey school

B1G hockey to a high degree owes its existence to Terry Pegula. Penn St was a successful club team before; but, there was no money to upgrade them to D1 standards. Pegula made it possible with a $90 million dollar donation which created 6th B1G team with hockey and thus a league was born.

 

[CL82]

God damn it that song is so damn fantastic!

It will soon be the most hated song in Hockey East, which will only make me love it all the more.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

B1G hockey to a high degree owes its existence to Terry Pegula. Penn St was a successful club team before; but, there was no money to upgrade them to D1 standards. Pegula made it possible with a $90 million dollar donation which created 6th B1G team with hockey and thus a league was born.

How about this for an expansion idea for B1G: University of Toronto. Tens of thousands of students, AAU member, six million people in metro area, half a million alumni spread around the globe. They play 26 sports - not sure if all are varsity or club - including lax, hockey (of course), rugby, rowing, basketball, baseball, and (sort of) football. The last one, football, would be a 20 year project - think they have something like a 5,000 seat 'stadium' and Canadian rules, but the B1G had already demonstrated it wants research and grant money more than titles (although titles are nice, too) and I would imagine (I do not know) the University of Toronto gets a boat load of Canadian research and grand dollars. Also, culturally, Toronto is a better fit with B1G than Texas. Trust me on this...been to Toronto a boat load of times - their sensibility is very mid-western. Never been to Texas but I saw one on TV once...

 

[specialisthusky]

How about this for an expansion idea for B1G: University of Toronto. Tens of thousands of students, AAU member, six million people in metro area, half a million alumni spread around the globe. They play 26 sports - not sure if all are varsity or club - including lax, hockey (of course), rugby, rowing, basketball, baseball, and (sort of) football. The last one, football, would be a 20 year project - think they have something like a 5,000 seat 'stadium' and Canadian rules, but the B1G had already demonstrated it wants research and grant money more than titles (although titles are nice, too) and I would imagine (I do not know) the University of Toronto gets a boat load of Canadian research and grand dollars. Also, culturally, Toronto is a better fit with B1G than Texas. Trust me on this...been to Toronto a boat load of times - their sensibility is very mid-western. Never been to Texas but I saw one on TV once...

International colleges are outside the NCAA. Among many other reasons - I doubt this ever happens.

You seem way too focused on research and grant. The B1G wants revenue. UMD and RU were not added because of research of grant dollars, but because of the media markets these like-minded Universities were located in.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

International colleges are outside the NCAA. Among many other reasons - I doubt this ever happens.

You seem way too focused on research and grant. The B1G wants revenue. UMD and RU were not added because of research of grant dollars, but because of the media markets these like-minded Universities were located in.

Yeah, U of Toronto is an outside shot. However, is there another untapped market in US with similar numbers? (I know someone will fine one and call me on it - that's the problem when you don't know the answer to the question asked.) Honestly don't think you can over-emphasize the importance of G&R money to B1G. At big, research oriented schools grant and research money dwarfs athletic revenue. I think the pick up of R and Maryland was a good idea on many levels. I didn't say athletics was unimportant. I didn't say 'footprint' was unimportant. I didn't say eyeballs watching TV was unimportant. I am saying the B1G wants to get into bed with G&R producing machines. I am saying this is more important than football, BB, etc. The BIG would love to get their hands on UNC, Duke (private, small, and brings in a ton of money), and maybe, maybe GT. Problem...they don't want to come - other then maybe GT. (Oh, I don't think you are going to have to worry about the NCAA for much longer...a lion w/o teeth in the not too distant future.) So, what the hell. Different is good. Go for University of Toronto. (btw - Rutgers and Maryland do a reasonably good job with R&G money. It wasn't all about TV.)

 

[specialisthusky]

Yeah, U of Toronto is an outside shot. However, is there another untapped market in US with similar numbers? (I know someone will fine one and call me on it - that's the problem when you don't know the answer to the question asked.) Honestly don't think you can over-emphasize the importance of G&R money to B1G. At big, research oriented schools grant and research money dwarfs athletic revenue. I think the pick up of R and Maryland was a good idea on many levels. I didn't say athletics was unimportant. I didn't say 'footprint' was unimportant. I didn't say eyeballs watching TV was unimportant. I am saying the B1G wants to get into bed with G&R producing machines. I am saying this is more important than football, BB, etc. The BIG would love to get their hands on UNC, Duke (private, small, and brings in a ton of money), and maybe, maybe GT. Problem...they don't want to come - other then maybe GT. (Oh, I don't think you are going to have to worry about the NCAA for much longer...a lion w/o teeth in the not too distant future.) So, what the hell. Different is good. Go for University of Toronto. (btw - Rutgers and Maryland do a reasonably good job with R&G money. It wasn't all about TV.)

It was all about TV, man.

Nebraska would not have been accepted if G&R were the first criteria - as it has been known Michigan and other B1G Presidents were the decision makers kicking them out of the AAU.

The B1G is an athletic conference - which is first and foremost - with an identiy of land grant research universities. Delany wassn't shopping for research grants when he added Nebraska, PSU, RU, and UMD. He was investing in programs that could increase the profitability of the Athletic Conference and would fit in with the identity of the conference.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

International colleges are outside the NCAA. Among many other reasons - I doubt this ever happens.

You seem way too focused on research and grant. The B1G wants revenue. UMD and RU were not added because of research of grant dollars, but because of the media markets these like-minded Universities were located in.

There is one exception, I believe, Simon Fraser out of Vancouver is a NCAA division II member.

 

[specialisthusky]

There is one exception, I believe, Simon Fraser out of Vancouver is a NCAA division II member.

That is some impressive international NCAA Division II membership knowledge.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I've read that it would be unlikely for Toronto or McGill to place their hockey teams in the NCAA because they are very attached to the system they have in place now (I can't remember the details of that). It might have something to do with it being a huge culture change for them to put their athletes on full-ride.

In any case, if you get Toronto but you don't get hockey, the rest of their sports bring next to nothing.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

It was all about TV, man.

Nebraska would not have been accepted if G&R were the first criteria - as it has been known Michigan and other B1G Presidents were the decision makers kicking them out of the AAU.

The B1G is an athletic conference - which is first and foremost - with an identiy of land grant research universities. Delany wassn't shopping for research grants when he added Nebraska, PSU, RU, and UMD. He was investing in programs that could increase the profitability of the Athletic Conference and would fit in with the identity of the conference.

Okay.

 

[Lynwood Rowe]

I've read that it would be unlikely for Toronto or McGill to place their hockey teams in the NCAA because they are very attached to the system they have in place now (I can't remember the details of that). It might have something to do with it being a huge culture change for them to put their athletes on full-ride.

In any case, if you get Toronto but you don't get hockey, the rest of their sports bring next to nothing.

I honestly don't know how to respond. Things may look different 20 years down the road. College football certainly doesn't look the same today as twenty years ago. What does? Perhaps consider it a B1G long term investment. An associate member for the first 15 years. (I'm just spit-balling here, of course.) As things are now structured there are problems to overcome. Not insurmountable ...

 

[kingdobbs]

B1G added Hopkins for lacrosse so they could have a 6 team league & get an automatic qualifier to the NCAA tournament.

Same reason Penn St became the 6th hockey school

No, Penn State became the 6th hockey school because the school wanted to add hockey; because the league's by-laws specified that six teams was the minimum for B1G sponsored competition, Penn State's addition triggered a discussion.

If the B1G wanted to have a hockey conference, just for the sake of having an autobid, they could have added any number of cromulent candidates. However, the power teams in the B1G had no need for an autobid. Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan State could make the NCAAs any year they wanted, just based on WCHA and CCHA schedule strength. .

Lacrosse is a completely different story. Beyond Maryland, you had three aggressively mediocre teams (Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers) and Michigan, a complete and utter newbie to lacrosse. Getting an autobid means that in some years, someone other than Maryland might actually make the tourney; adding JHU as an associate potentially gets the B1G lax league 2-3 teams in the tourney a year (and men's lax is one of the few sports that actually generates positive revenue for its tournament).

Having a strong hockey team in a good TV and recruiting market for the sport (CY/New England), is not as important tot he B1G as football; but, it is a check in UConn's favor. There have been rumors that once Rutgers gets its financial house in order (my Rutgers alumni friends all agree that it will not be in our lifetimes), Rutgers will be pushed by the B1G to add hockey.

Neither Rutgers, nor any current or future B1G members, will be pushed by the B1G to add hockey. The league already has two albatrosses in Ohio State and Penn State.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

That is some impressive international NCAA Division II membership knowledge.

At some point in the past, UConn women's hoops team played Simon Fraser and my friends and I never heard of them. After some research, we foudn out that Simon Fraser had been dominating the US based NAIA (National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics) and either was talking to or had already been accepted as a new member of the NCAA. I did have to Google what NCAA division they are in (II).