B1G

[Hoophound]

If UConn can survive that long, the timing might be right. By then the buildout of the university might actually lead to some big gains in academic reputation.

Is it wrong to hope that UConn is going to get a nice boost in USNWR rankings due to recent hiring? I thought I read the criteria at one point and faculty size, quality and student/faculty ratio were very important. If we make a big gain there, we will get great momentum in public perception. I'd love to see us hit the top 15 public universities. No matter what you think of those rankings, they are the major force behind perception.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

@upstater - how realistic do you think the scenarios you posted above are in regards to redefining D1 and the scenario you mentioned about the Big5 breaking away.

I understand the schools can do what they'd like in theory, but since there'd be state institutions, like us, left out, wouldn't that raise a big issue?

I figure you have way more of a political insight into these things than most of us.

Appreciate your take.

 

[Marty Jackson]

This penetration into NYC seems to be getting more and more B1Gers to say "why not UConn to B1G". It makes too much "cents" and people are starting to connect the dots. Check out the comments section...all pro-UConn compared to a year ago when no one was even considering UConn.

the last comment about Rutgers dominating NYC basketball is quite funny. In how many years as a member of the best hoops conference did Rutgers win more than 20 games. so schools like pitt, syr, uconn, uofl, marquette, g'town, nova, and cincy can't generate excitement in bb, but iowa, psu, purdue, and nebraska will.
good luck rutgers.

 

[upstater]

Is it wrong to hope that UConn is going to get a nice boost in USNWR rankings due to recent hiring? I thought I read the criteria at one point and faculty size, quality and student/faculty ratio were very important. If we make a big gain there, we will get great momentum in public perception. I'd love to see us hit the top 15 public universities. No matter what you think of those rankings, they are the major force behind perception.

I don't think that will make a big difference at all since 200+ faculty are coming in with thousands of students. A bigger factor (and the weightiest factor in the USNWP) is reputation. UConn is doing a little bit of shock and awe with these hires. Granted, it is a bit smoke and mirrors since it's being done through a huge tuition increase (i.e. most schools in UConn's bracket could do the exact same thing if they decided to) but the key to all of this is the public-private partnerships. In other words, those faculty members will be hired in fields with private partnerships to catalyze high value research and development in the state. Will it work? Only if they invest and research the right things. It's a gamble, but probably not a very big one. SUNY is doing something similar but each of the four SUNY centers are choosing their own specialties (for instance, Buffalo is starting a Rare Earth materials institute -- the sort of natural resources/rare elements that go into making devices like the iPhone and iPad --). Lots of top faculty will likely be persuaded by these opportunities and choose to take jobs at Uconn, especially when salary rises have stalled at almost all other universities. No one's hiring right now--which means salaries stall.

 

[upstater]

@upstater - how realistic do you think the scenarios you posted above are in regards to redefining D1 and the scenario you mentioned about the Big5 breaking away.

I understand the schools can do what they'd like in theory, but since there'd be state institutions, like us, left out, wouldn't that raise a big issue?

I figure you have way more of a political insight into these things than most of us.

Appreciate your take.

The easy route is to break away. Too much litigation the other way. BUT, it's also the riskier move too. Because then the SEC has you by the nuts and they can take it all semi-pro. Plus, you might destroy college basketball.

I don't think the presidents have the guts to do anything like this yet, BUT... people are talking about putting ADs in charge instead of the Emmert's of the world. Sorry, but as bad as Emmert is, the ADs will be worse. Never forget that Cedric Dempsey went to work for the Pump Brothers when he stepped down from being head of the NCAA.

They may just stick with the status quo for a while. I was really writing to show the great difficulty the top schools have with icing out the lower schools. They may try to do by attrition, the way some employers try to harass older employees into retiring. So, freeze out the lower schools from the playoffs, starve them of money while you're making $40m a year per school.

Can UConn survive 10 years of this? It better.

 

[itgoeslike]

My observations with Big Ten fans is that Maryland and Rutgers were ultimately acceptable because (a) they also added a school that actually draws football viewers (Nebraska) and (b) there's a greater understanding of how the BTN makes money with cable households compared to when the Big Ten first announced that it was exploring expansion 3 years ago. To be clear, though, (a) is extremely important. For a move to be popular with fans, there HAS to be a school added that such fans will want to sit down and watch their teams play football against. There's already a bit of consternation about how the Big Ten West schools are going to be playing Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State less often, so to the extent anyone else is added, they had better make it worth seeing those 3 schools even less. A pure market grab without a marquee (or at least upper tier) football brand will not pass muster with the fans for future expansions. This also isn't irrelevant to the financially-minded powers that be, either, as a powerful football brand is still the proverbial golden goose that makes the market-based riches from the BTN possible. Believe me - they're not oblivious to this. (Now, I know that the retort to that is that Rutgers and Maryland are historically terrible at football, but as I've pointed out here, New Jersey and Maryland are the two best football recruiting states in the North that aren't already in the Big Ten footprint, so there IS a very direct football-driven reason for those additions.)

The AAU issue is what ultimately matters the most for the Big Ten, though. I'm not saying that is the correct way for the Big Ten to expand (as I've personally argued for them to grab Florida State), but that is certainly how the powers that be in the Big Ten are approaching expansion. Close or "having a plan" isn't good enough - if you're in the AAU, then you have a chance, but if you're not in the AAU, then you don't have a chance. It's as simple as that (unless you're Notre Dame, in which case all expansion qualification rules go out the window if they're dropping football independence).

Unfortunately, one of the drivers fueling the perceived need for a marquee program is that the Big Ten football product has been really average as of late. The only exceptions being OSU and Wisconsin. The jury's still out on a Nebraska rebound. Everyone else is playing below past performance (except Northwestern!). If the Big Ten had 4-5 teams in the hunt for a national championship they could more easily assimilate an average program. In turn, there is some risk in bringing in a marquee program that dominates the league, which could actually hurt the established brands by reinforcing what many already suspect.

The good news for UCONN is that fans don't typically drive expansion (Rutgers, Colorado, Utah, Maryland, and Missouri are good examples). If the GOR's stay intact and the B1G leadership has a long term, comprehensive vision, UCONN is at least part of the discussion. Although, I think they would need to perform above expectations in the coming year to provide enough cover for the BiG leadership to add them. If they don't perform well, it will make it more challenging politically. In terms of AAU, UCONN is making down payments but need to keep trending in the right direction. The AAU is a political organization, and if UCONN has the metrics and the B1G feel they add value, it will get done (albeit not nearly soon enough for UCONN fans).

 

[whaler11]

I ask this as someone who doesn't give a damn. Is there a real difference between being 21st and 15th in some magazine's rankings?

Do people actually think a magazine can come up with a legitimate ordinal ranking of schools that are of such similar quality you are splitting hairs?

 

[NickyNewark]

Things change. The BTN is about to lose a lot of bball cred to the ACC. As much as people disparage bball revs, they are still probably 20% of the total. The BTN has an achilles heel there. As for NJ and Maryland football, I'd argue that most of those players already go to the B1G anyway. Look at Nebraska, PSU and the NJ pipeline. Maryland and PSU. I'm not sure how much is going to really change now. Seems like a market grab to me.

Is that why RU until " BOB" has out recruited PSU for the last 5/6 years and even poached a few Pennsy kids from PSU?And Neb?They haven't until this year recruited NJ since the Mike Rozier day's "15yrs" ago ?Anthony Davis even told OSU that Ohio kids should play in Ohio and NJ kids should stay in Jersey!!Someone's fact's are outdated tho I'll admit now that RU's going B1G the whole conference is trying NJ again! Let's face it Schiano had NJ practically on lockdown!Let's keep it real, only Michigan,MSU and to a lesser degree PSU has had recent success in NJ!

 

[tzznandrew]

Agreed about the AAU, which was also my original point.

What's made you change your tune on this? You had been calling BS on this for a while, citing Nebraska.

 

[upstater]

Not buying what you're selling. Head to head several years ago, they battled on the WRs, and PSU brought 4 in from Jersey, but that's all I'm going to say since I don't want to start a PSU-Rutgers discussion on a UConn board.

 

[NickyNewark]

Nebraska recruiting NJ ?See what perception doe's?Texas has been their bread and butter for year's!!NJ?Maybe 12/15 years ago!!

 

[upstater]

What's made you change your tune on this? You had been calling BS on this for a while, citing Nebraska.

That was a long while ago. I quoted an internal AAU memo a year or more ago that stated explicitly they were looking to cull members. When they added my alma mater, Boston U., it seemed the AAU was looking to cull and add at the same time, so I changed my tune.

If you're talking about the B1G adding Nebraska a couple years ago, I was refuting those who said the AAU was an absolute criteria. I never said it was no obstacle to UConn. I simply though it wasn't an absolute criteria. I think even B1G people have said that it is not absolute.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I think if things start to get ugly for the Big 12 - and I suspect they will in time - Texas will be free to do whatever it wants.

The Long Horn Network is problematic, but there's always the possibility that it will ultimately fail. If that happens, lord knows what Texas might do.

Go to the Big Ten with Kansas or go to the Pac 12 with OU?

Who knows what the impact of all that would mean for us - I think we're stuck here in purgatory for at least another decade until the television contracts and grant of rights start to expire again.

Texas will take an ND like deal with the ACC, go rogue in football (LHN revenues, their historic stature and ~ three ACC opponents each year to add to the annual OU contest during the state fair will resolve any scheduling issues), allowing the ACC to close shop with an even number of participants in all relevant sports.

 

[Dann]

Northwestern, a school that has never made the NCAA basketball tournament will drop football - even though they are relatively competitive so they can join a basketball league.

U just repeated what I said.

 

[whaler11]

U just repeated what I said.

I was translating it to English so you'd realize just how ridiculous it is.

 

[Dann]

I was translating it to English so you'd realize just how ridiculous it is.

I will hit a old man

 

[djct1999]

The easy route is to break away. Too much litigation the other way. BUT, it's also the riskier move too. Because then the SEC has you by the nuts and they can take it all semi-pro. Plus, you might destroy college basketball.



Can UConn survive 10 years of this? It better.

There is absolutely no way UConn's status will remain static for 10 years. Something will give, either better or worse, way before then.

 

[upstater]

There is absolutely no way UConn's status will remain static for 10 years. Something will give, either better or worse, way before then.

You think the university can't take an extra $5 or 6m hit on athletics for 10 years? Look at the MAC.

 

[NickyNewark]

Unfortunately, one of the drivers fueling the perceived need for a marquee program is that the Big Ten football product has been really average as of late. The only exceptions being OSU and Wisconsin. The jury's still out on a Nebraska rebound. Everyone else is playing below past performance (except Northwestern!). If the Big Ten had 4-5 teams in the hunt for a national championship they could more easily assimilate an average program. In turn, there is some risk in bringing in a marquee program that dominates the league, which could actually hurt the established brands by reinforcing what many already suspect.

The good news for UCONN is that fans don't typically drive expansion (Rutgers, Colorado, Utah, Maryland, and Missouri are good examples). If the GOR's stay intact and the B1G leadership has a long term, comprehensive vision, UCONN is at least part of the discussion. Although, I think they would need to perform above expectations in the coming year to provide enough cover for the BiG leadership to add them. If they don't perform well, it will make it more challenging politically. In terms of AAU, UCONN is making down payments but need to keep trending in the right direction. The AAU is a political organization, and if UCONN has the metrics and the B1G feel they add value, it will get done (albeit not nearly soon enough for UCONN fans).

Fan's don't drive expansion?If your fan's aren't interested why would any conference be interested no matter how big the market??In the Northeast including NE outside of PSU who has more fan's the RU FB?I'd guess Rutgers have more fan's with the possible exception being Missouri on that questionable above list!!

 

[GopherHawk]

You think the university can't take an extra $5 or 6m hit on athletics for 10 years? Look at the MAC.

The reduced revenue for the next 5 years will be slightly offset by the exit fee money. The best solution for making up the difference is to increase attendance at games. That goes straight to the bottom line. The last thing you could do and it may be a tough pill to swallow is to play OOC football games for money. That means no home and home series with big name teams. It could add $1 - $1.5M to the departments budget.

The issue is even with the above additional funds, the gap will widen. I think you can survive for 5 yrs without undo harm. After that and you will have to make some serious choices about competition levels.

 

[upstater]

The reduced revenue for the next 5 years will be slightly offset by the exit fee money. The best solution for making up the difference is to increase attendance at games. That goes straight to the bottom line. The last thing you could do and it may be a tough pill to swallow is to play OOC football games for money. That means no home and home series with big name teams. It could add $1 - $1.5M to the departments budget.

The issue is even with the above additional funds, the gap will widen. I think you can survive for 5 yrs without undo harm. After that and you will have to make some serious choices about competition levels.

I think they can survive 10 years.

But, as for taking away games, that's a net loss for UConn. Football revenue is significant. Taking a $1 million payday only works for school's that make less than a million. Despite what you may have heard, UConn actually makes a lot of money for football with very high ticket prices and seat donation requirements. And this has been a big complaint for the fans here. Lower the prices, pack the stadium.

A few years ago, UConn could get 35-40,000 for Murray State in a cold driving rainstorm. Now it gets 28,000-30,000 for conference games. There has been a fall off. Ticket prices should be addressed. Lower revenue on ticket prices might offset some of the empty seats and perception problems.

 

[upstater]

Fan's don't drive expansion?If your fan's aren't interested why would any conference be interested no matter how big the market??In the Northeast including NE outside of PSU who has more fan's the RU FB?I'd guess Rutgers have more fan's with the possible exception being Missouri on that questionable above list!!

I think he's right. UConn, Maryland, Rutgers in particular are 3 programs not known for having rabid fans. They really don't. But then look at their TV market. All 3 are capable of driving eyeballs to the set from the comfort of living rooms. That's the value right there.

 

[B1GALUM]

That was a long while ago. I quoted an internal AAU memo a year or more ago that stated explicitly they were looking to cull members. When they added my alma mater, Boston U., it seemed the AAU was looking to cull and add at the same time, so I changed my tune.

If you're talking about the B1G adding Nebraska a couple years ago, I was refuting those who said the AAU was an absolute criteria. I never said it was no obstacle to UConn. I simply though it wasn't an absolute criteria. I think even B1G people have said that it is not absolute.

AAU membership is not absolute but it is difficult for me to see entry into the B1G without AAU membership.

As I have posted before, I think UConn would be a great addition to the B1G and clearly exceeds the metrics for some schools already in the AAU.
http://provost.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-November-7-Department-Head-Presentation.pdf

However, Delany and the B1G presidents have essentially set AAU membership as criteria for consideration so that needs to be the primary goal for UConn as it relates to receiving an invitation to the B1G.

Jim Delany:
''What we focused on and continue to focus on is the quality of the institution,'' Delany said. ''It's membership in AAU.”
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebas...s-rutgers-will-be-member-of-conference-060313

Sally Mason, University of Iowa President:
“I certainly would have to think long and hard about the merits of something like that,” Mason said of admitting a non-AAU member into the Big Ten. “We’ve been pretty clear about the quality of institutions that we have thought are appropriate to be a member institution of the Big Ten Conference.”
http://thegazette.com/2013/04/30/uis-mason-b1g-expansion-on-hold-at-this-time/

 

[specialisthusky]

AAU membership is not absolute but it is difficult for me to see entry into the B1G.

As I have posted before, I think UConn would be a great addition to the B1G and clearly exceeds the metrics for some schools already in the AAU.
http://provost.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-November-7-Department-Head-Presentation.pdf

However, Delany and the B1G presidents have essentially set AAU membership as criteria for consideration so that needs to be the primary goal for UConn as it relates to receiving an invitation to the B1G.

Jim Delany:
''What we focused on and continue to focus on is the quality of the institution,'' Delany said. ''It's membership in AAU.”
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebas...s-rutgers-will-be-member-of-conference-060313

Sally Mason, University of Iowa President:
“I certainly would have to think long and hard about the merits of something like that,” Mason said of admitting a non-AAU member into the Big Ten. “We’ve been pretty clear about the quality of institutions that we have thought are appropriate to be a member institution of the Big Ten Conference.”
http://thegazette.com/2013/04/30/uis-mason-b1g-expansion-on-hold-at-this-time/

The good news is that seems to be President Herbst number 1 goal as President. I wonder how much UConn's inclusion in Universita 21, which now includes UMD and Ohio State, will help its cause for AAU inclusion.

 

[juan]

One thing no one has really discussed with the 1.5 billion dollar UCONN expansion and B1G is the plan to expand the Stamford UCONN campus including room and board accommodations. This is obviously a plan to infiltrate the NYC market more and draw more interest from potential NYC candidates.

 

[upstater]

AAU membership is not absolute but it is difficult for me to see entry into the B1G without AAU membership.

As I have posted before, I think UConn would be a great addition to the B1G and clearly exceeds the metrics for some schools already in the AAU.
http://provost.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/2012-November-7-Department-Head-Presentation.pdf

However, Delany and the B1G presidents have essentially set AAU membership as criteria for consideration so that needs to be the primary goal for UConn as it relates to receiving an invitation to the B1G.

Jim Delany:
''What we focused on and continue to focus on is the quality of the institution,'' Delany said. ''It's membership in AAU.”
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebas...s-rutgers-will-be-member-of-conference-060313

Sally Mason, University of Iowa President:
“I certainly would have to think long and hard about the merits of something like that,” Mason said of admitting a non-AAU member into the Big Ten. “We’ve been pretty clear about the quality of institutions that we have thought are appropriate to be a member institution of the Big Ten Conference.”
http://thegazette.com/2013/04/30/uis-mason-b1g-expansion-on-hold-at-this-time/

The internal memos from PSU's ex-Prez Graham Spanier to his former university's President in Nebraska, uncovered through a FOIA request, were very telling about the B1G's stance.

Spanier relayed to him that Wisconsin and Michigan were rigging the process to oust Nebraska from the AAU (and this happened a year before Nebraska was even considered for the B1G). In this respect, it was clear that the AAU was not an absolute consideration. The former Pres. of Wisconsin, before she left for Amherst College, said that the subject of AAU affiliation never came up once in discussions to admit Nebraska. I can imagine why. AWKWARD! Clearly, PSU's Prez and Northwestern's knew exactly what was going on behind the scenes, so any discussion of Nebraska's AAU affiliation would have been two-facish--or what we like to call, Fatherleahy-ish.

 

[GopherHawk]

I think they can survive 10 years.

But, as for taking away games, that's a net loss for UConn. Football revenue is significant. Taking a $1 million payday only works for school's that make less than a million. Despite what you may have heard, UConn actually makes a lot of money for football with very high ticket prices and seat donation requirements. And this has been a big complaint for the fans here. Lower the prices, pack the stadium.

A few years ago, UConn could get 35-40,000 for Murray State in a cold driving rainstorm. Now it gets 28,000-30,000 for conference games. There has been a fall off. Ticket prices should be addressed. Lower revenue on ticket prices might offset some of the empty seats and perception problems.

That is assuming you play all of your OOC games at home. Since most teams end up playing an OOC game on the road you might as well get paid for it.

 

[itgoeslike]

Fan's don't drive expansion?If your fan's aren't interested why would any conference be interested no matter how big the market??In the Northeast including NE outside of PSU who has more fan's the RU FB?I'd guess Rutgers have more fan's with the possible exception being Missouri on that questionable above list!!

Yes, fans can play an active role in making a school desirable. Nebraska is a small state but has a rabid fan base. UCONN is a smaller state, and like Nebraska has a high percentage of fan loyalty (not having pro sport teams or a competing state university helps). My point was in response to B1G fans' desire for a Marquee football program versus adding a university for other strategic reasons. For the ACC and to a lesser degree, the Big 12, football credibility is important (not so in the B1G, SEC, and PAC). The Big Ten has shown that they have broader interests than simply Football. From a revenue standpoint, their research dollars dwarf any media deal out there. With regard to a Marquee program, your example of Rutgers reinforces my point. It was selected for reasons other than the quality of their football program.

 

[upstater]

That is assuming you play all of your OOC games at home. Since most teams end up playing an OOC game on the road you might as well get paid for it.

You don't get paid for home and homes. Only one offs.

So far, UConn is still doing home-and-homes with Tennessee, Iowa, Michigan (all pre-BE dissolution) and new ones against BYU and Boise St (maybe a few others, I'm not keeping track).

We'll see how long UConn can keep scheduling OOC home-and-homes, but so far it has worked out for them. I think the schedule is good for the next 5 years. We'll see what the future holds.

 

[B1GALUM]

The good news is that seems to be President Herbst number 1 goal as President. I wonder how much UConn's inclusion in Universita 21, which now includes UMD and Ohio State, will help its cause for AAU inclusion.

I think it will help given the opportunity for representatives from UConn to network with representatives from Maryland and Ohio State. The opportunity to collaborate with universities from the B1G is a way interest in B1G membership can be expressed and the value, in this case of UConn, to be appreciated by these B1G universities.