B1G

[Exit 4]

PJ's links back me up, so do yours. Over 10% of pop growth is immigration down there. It's the main difference.

Even if you use PJ's hispanic # and assume zero for CT, NC crushes on the underlying growth trend.

Population Population
Jul-10 Jul-00 total gain hispanic non hispanic % gain - non hispanic
NC 9,561,600 8,081,600 1,480,000 421,000 1,059,000 13.104%
CT 3,577,100 3,411,800 165,300 0 165,300 4.845%

I see my attempt to drop in a chart didnt work. The calculations show that after you net our 421,000 for hispanics, the underlying growth for NC was 13.1% over the decade vs 4.85% for CT...and for CT I havent carved out the hispanic portion, so the real number is actually lower.

Looking at VA, assuming the same ratio of hispanics as NC, the growth for the state was 9.2%. This breaksdown as a gain of 918,800 people of which 261,300 are hispanic for a net non hispanic gain of 657,500. Again, well outpacing CT.

 

[upstater]

Even if you use PJ's hispanic # and assume zero for CT, NC crushes on the underlying growth trend.

Population Population
Jul-10 Jul-00 total gain hispanic non hispanic % gain - non hispanic
NC 9,561,600 8,081,600 1,480,000 421,000 1,059,000 13.104%
CT 3,577,100 3,411,800 165,300 0 165,300 4.845%

Did I say anything about Ct. v. NC? No. So why are you going on?

 

[GopherHawk]

The biggest issue the ACC faces is they have four schools in one TV market. While it is a big TV market ESPN only wants to pay for it once. The reality is the cable subscriber penetration would be the same if there was only UNC in North Carolina. This same issue effects the B1G which is why they will not add a second school from a state. It is also why the SEC doesn't want FSU or Clemson.

Unless the ACC come up with a method of capturing value from all of the NC schools they are fighting with one arm behind their back.

 

[Exit 4]

The biggest issue the ACC faces is they have four schools in one TV market. While it is a big TV market ESPN only wants to pay for it once. The reality is the cable subscriber penetration would be the same if there was only UNC in North Carolina. This same issue effects the B1G which is why they will not add a second school from a state. It is also why the SEC doesn't want FSUnor Clemson.

Unless the ACC come up with a method of capturing value from all of the NC schools they are fitting with one arm behind their back.

Yeah, its certainly a disadvantage to have four schools carving up a single cable market....definately a handicap.

 

[upstater]

The biggest issue the ACC faces is they have four schools in one TV market. While it is a big TV market ESPN only wants to pay for it once. The reality is the cable subscriber penetration would be the same if there was only UNC in North Carolina. This same issue effects the B1G which is why they will not add a second school from a state. It is also why the SEC doesn't want FSUnor Clemson.

Unless the ACC come up with a method of capturing value from all of the NC schools they are fitting with one arm behind their back.

You know, Duke is incredibly popular down there. They have a huge amount of fans. If UNC leaves w/ say UVa for the Big10, and the SEC snatches NC State, there is going to be quite a battle for TV viewers. I'm not sure how aware people are about Duke's popularity. But it's real and it's big.

 

[Exit 4]

Did I say anything about Ct. v. NC? No. So why are you going on?

To illustrate that NC as the home of the ACC has a superior growth story and comparing against CT provides prospective we can appreciate since we live here.

 

[Durks07]

I think we can all accept that the population growth of the Mid-Atlantic is outpacing the growth of New England (which is more in decline), however we should all keep this in mind: Just because New England isn't growing doesn't mean NYC isn't (http://www.inquisitr.com/573020/new-york-city-population-reaches-new-heights-tops-8-3-million/). New York is growing, and despite whatever population trends may occur, it is hard to imagine that NYC's population will ever diminish to the point where population growth in Place X trumps the value of NYC.

While I remain unsure whether the B1G is the end destination for UConn, let's remember a few things. 1) Adding Maryland and Rutgers creates more mouths to feed. They have to divide their revenue amongst more members than before. So, if Rutgers cannot deliver NYC's market they only give the B1G New Jersey (pop: 8,864,590). This would leave the B1G network on the outskirts of a media market with 8,336, 697 people. Add Connecticut to that number, that totals 11,927,044 people.

One of the main theories for the B1G's attraction to UVA is that they create a "critical mass" in D.C. If this is true, why would Delany allow NYC potentially to fallow. PSU didn't get the B1G on basic cable in NYC. Unless the B1G believes that Rutgers does create that "critical mass," then it really seems illogical to add a member to divide the revenue with that doesn't touch the NYC market. I'm not saying UConn is ahead of UVA and UNC, but the population trends don't favor the region, but I just don't believe they hurt UConn nearly as much as we believe.

Just ask this question: Considering that the combined population of CT, NJ, and NYC is over 20 million, would the B1G want one school that can bring less than half that for sure, and MAYBE 8 million more, or two schools that can give the B1G all of it?

 

[upstater]

I think we can all accept that the population growth of the Mid-Atlantic is outpacing the growth of New England (which is more in decline), however we should all keep this in mind: Just because New England isn't growing doesn't mean NYC isn't (http://www.inquisitr.com/573020/new-york-city-population-reaches-new-heights-tops-8-3-million/). New York is growing, and despite whatever population trends may occur, it is hard to imagine that NYC's population will ever diminish to the point where population growth in Place X trumps the value of NYC.

While I remain unsure whether the B1G is the end destination for UConn, let's remember a few things. 1) Adding Maryland and Rutgers creates more mouths to feed. They have to divide their revenue amongst more members than before. So, if Rutgers cannot deliver NYC's market they only give the B1G New Jersey (pop: 8,864,590). This would leave the B1G network on the outskirts of a media market with 8,336, 697 people. Add Connecticut to that number, that totals 11,927,044 people.

One of the main theories for the B1G's attraction to UVA is that they create a "critical mass" in D.C. If this is true, why would Delany allow NYC potentially to fallow. PSU didn't get the B1G on basic cable in NYC. Unless the B1G believes that Rutgers does create that "critical mass," then it really seems illogical to add a member to divide the revenue with that doesn't touch the NYC market. I'm not saying UConn is ahead of UVA and UNC, but the population trends don't favor the region, but I just don't believe they hurt UConn nearly as much as we believe.

Just ask this question: Considering that the combined population of CT, NJ, and NYC is over 20 million, would the B1G want one school that can bring less than half that for sure, and MAYBE 8 million more, or two schools that can give the B1G all of it?

A lot of good reasoning here, but at the end of the day, these are colleges with a lot of money sunk into brick & mortar. They really aren't projecting out so far into the future based on demography. It has more to do with TV rights in the next few years, alumni, and college football talent. There are a good many colleges out there that have had their campuses built out in the 1960s during the heyday of the GI Bill, to disastrous effect. Many were worried about campus riots. So many schools around the USA want a redo to take advantage of shifts in the way people (and students) live, but they can't. They are hostages of history. This is how I feel about the B1G. Change happens very very slowly. All this demographic stuff is practically meaningless except where it really counts: alumni, ticket sales, cable tv, and recruiting.

 

[Durks07]

A lot of good reasoning here, but at the end of the day, these are colleges with a lot of money sunk into brick & mortar. They really aren't projecting out so far into the future based on demography. It has more to do with TV rights in the next few years, alumni, and college football talent. There are a good many colleges out there that have had their campuses built out in the 1960s during the heyday of the GI Bill, to disastrous effect. Many were worried about campus riots. So many schools around the USA want a redo to take advantage of shifts in the way people (and students) live, but they can't. They are hostages of history. This is how I feel about the B1G. Change happens very very slowly. All this demographic stuff is practically meaningless except where it really counts: alumni, ticket sales, cable tv, and recruiting.

I'm definitely with you as far as the alumni moving to the South. That seems to be a driving force of the B1G. I still think that makes (securing) NYC a massive priority to them. Alumni from schools nationwide flock to NYC to work. Duke used to schedule a game at MSG every year to play in front of a pseudo home crowd because of their alumni. With so many B1G alumni working in the five boroughs, they certainly want that city's market under the banner. I think UConn is still in play, but more likely for a push to 18 to 20 overall.

I've tried to analogize the process to Risk. UVA would shore up the investment for D.C. and add VA's markets. I just doubt having NYC as a possibility is good enough to the honchos in Chicago. I just don't believe the B1G wants the ACC to possibly get a bigger foothold in NYC than they do. If the ACC took UConn, combined with Syracuse, and the interest in the conference formerly known as the Big East powers (Pitt, UL, and ND), the ACC can plant a flag in NYC that the B1G would have a hard time dislodging. I doubt that this is acceptable for them, considering the money at stake.

Moving to the South (UVA, UNC, GT) has the benefit of bringing the product of the network to those alumni, generating ticket sales, and making the recruitment of prime talent easier, but it still comes down to convincing those kids to go to OSU or Mich. rather than Alabama, Florida, or LSU. I think that it helps, but it is an iffy proposition to rely on 17-18 year olds to choose cold winters when they grew up in a warm climate. Hell, I'm dying for the opportunity to move further south and enjoy nice weather for a change and I live here.

In the end I believe it comes down to one fundamental question: Can Rutgers secure NYC? PSU never could, and adding Rutgers may help, but many of us who actually live in the area scoff at the notion. A network that offers Penn St. football, Rutgers football, UConn Football + men and women's basketball has a far better chance to get 20 million under the umbrella of the B1G. It doesn't make UVA or UNC less attractive, but considering the eyeballs that can be captured, it can't be overlooked.

 

[GopherHawk]

Here is some data. The flaws in the data are as follows.
1) Syracuse is getting credit for all of New York
2) B1G gets no credit for NYC at all with Rutgers
3) I did not add DC into ACC numbers, but it is 600K and only 23k in growth.

As you can see the absolute growth between the two conferencein their 2014 form is in favor of the B1G. You can also see why UVA, UNC and FSU are the big whoopers. If UCONN + Rutgers + 10M of NYC that that is a game changer also.

State 2012 estimate 2010 Census Change Covering Institution
District of Columbia 632,323 601,723 MD
Maryland 5,884,563 5,773,552 MD
Nebraska 1,855,525 1,826,341 UNL
Minnesota 5,379,139 5,303,925 U of M
Iowa 3,074,186 3,046,355 U of I
New Jersey 8,864,590 8,791,894 Rutgers
Indiana 6,537,334 6,483,802 IU & Purdue
Wisconsin 5,726,398 5,686,986 U of W
Pennsylvania 12,763,536 12,702,379 Penn State
Illinois 12,875,255 12,830,632 NW & U of I
Ohio 11,544,225 11,536,504 tOSU
Michigan 9,883,360 9,877,670 U of M & MSU
2014 B1G 85,020,434 84,461,763 558,671 Correct due to error with Excel


State 2012 estimate 2010 Census Change
Florida 19,317,568 18,801,310 FSU & Miami
Virginia 8,201,849 8,001,024 UVA & VT
Georgia 9,919,945 9,687,653 GT
North Carolina 9,752,073 9,535,483 Duke, UNC, NCST & Wake
South Carolina 4,723,723 4,625,364 Clemson
New York 19,668,774 19,378,102 Syracuse
Massachusetts 6,612,450 6,547,629 BC
Pennsylvania 12,763,536 12,702,379 Pitt
Kentucky
4,380,415
4,339,367 Louisville
Indiana 6,537,334 6,483,802 ND
ACC in 2014 91,957,722 82,413,436 9,544,286

 

[Marty Jackson]

The biggest issue the ACC faces is they have four schools in one TV market. While it is a big TV market ESPN only wants to pay for it once. The reality is the cable subscriber penetration would be the same if there was only UNC in North Carolina. This same issue effects the B1G which is why they will not add a second school from a state. It is also why the SEC doesn't want FSU or Clemson.

Unless the ACC come up with a method of capturing value from all of the NC schools they are fighting with one arm behind their back.

you mean tobacco road is a handicap?

 

[Exit 4]

Here is some data. The flaws in the data are as follows.
1) Syracuse is getting credit for all of New York
2) B1G gets no credit for NYC at all with Rutgers
3) I did not add DC into ACC numbers, but it is 600K and only 23k in growth.

As you can see the absolute growth between the two conferencein their 2014 form is in favor of the B1G. You can also see why UVA, UNC and FSU are the big whoopers. If UCONN + Rutgers + 10M of NYC that that is a game changer also.

State 2012 estimate 2010 Census Change Covering Institution
District of Columbia 632,323 601,723 MD
Maryland 5,884,563 5,773,552 MD
Nebraska 1,855,525 1,826,341 UNL
Minnesota 5,379,139 5,303,925 U of M
Iowa 3,074,186 3,046,355 U of I
New Jersey 8,864,590 8,791,894 Rutgers
Indiana 6,537,334 6,483,802 IU & Purdue
Wisconsin 5,726,398 5,686,986 U of W
Pennsylvania 12,763,536 12,702,379 Penn State
Illinois 12,875,255 12,830,632 NW & U of I
Ohio 11,544,225 11,536,504 tOSU
Michigan 9,883,360 9,877,670 U of M & MSU
2014 B1G 85,020,434 74,584,093 10,436,341


State 2012 estimate 2010 Census Change
Florida 19,317,568 18,801,310 FSU & Miami
Virginia 8,201,849 8,001,024 UVA & VT
Georgia 9,919,945 9,687,653 GT
North Carolina 9,752,073 9,535,483 Duke, UNC, NCST & Wake
South Carolina 4,723,723 4,625,364 Clemson
New York 19,668,774 19,378,102 Syracuse
Massachusetts 6,612,450 6,547,629 BC
Pennsylvania 12,763,536 12,702,379 Pitt
Kentucky
4,380,415
4,339,367 Louisville
Indiana 6,537,334 6,483,802 ND
ACC in 2014 91,957,722 82,413,436 9,544,286

Gopher, I think you have errors in your tallies. Using your numbers, I come up with a total B1G market of 85million as of 2012 with a 558k increase or .66% since 2010 and for the ACC market 101.8million with a 1.7MM increase or 1.77% since 2010.


2012 2010 raw change %
B1G 85,020,434 vs 84,461,763 for a 558,671 incresae or 0.66%
ACC 101,877,667 vs 100,102,113 for a 1,775,554 increase or 1.77%

 

[Exit 4]

I think we can all accept that the population growth of the Mid-Atlantic is outpacing the growth of New England (which is more in decline), however we should all keep this in mind: Just because New England isn't growing doesn't mean NYC isn't (http://www.inquisitr.com/573020/new-york-city-population-reaches-new-heights-tops-8-3-million/). New York is growing, and despite whatever population trends may occur, it is hard to imagine that NYC's population will ever diminish to the point where population growth in Place X trumps the value of NYC.

While I remain unsure whether the B1G is the end destination for UConn, let's remember a few things. 1) Adding Maryland and Rutgers creates more mouths to feed. They have to divide their revenue amongst more members than before. So, if Rutgers cannot deliver NYC's market they only give the B1G New Jersey (pop: 8,864,590). This would leave the B1G network on the outskirts of a media market with 8,336, 697 people. Add Connecticut to that number, that totals 11,927,044 people.

One of the main theories for the B1G's attraction to UVA is that they create a "critical mass" in D.C. If this is true, why would Delany allow NYC potentially to fallow. PSU didn't get the B1G on basic cable in NYC. Unless the B1G believes that Rutgers does create that "critical mass," then it really seems illogical to add a member to divide the revenue with that doesn't touch the NYC market. I'm not saying UConn is ahead of UVA and UNC, but the population trends don't favor the region, but I just don't believe they hurt UConn nearly as much as we believe.

Just ask this question: Considering that the combined population of CT, NJ, and NYC is over 20 million, would the B1G want one school that can bring less than half that for sure, and MAYBE 8 million more, or two schools that can give the B1G all of it?

All solid points here, dont disagree with anything other than to point out that NYC's growth has always been about immigrants, which is absolutely fine, but apparently an unimpressive fact of CR analysis if you are Upstater or PJ. Uconn can survive the fact that CT is not a growth story - in my opinion - but I think its incorrect to dismiss the NC and VA demographic trends as merely fueled by immigration which doesnt serve the B1G target market. Stripping out immigration, its still a strong story and if you want to exclude immigration in your measurement of the south, then you need to do the same in the north.

 

[Durks07]

All solid points here, dont disagree with anything other than to point out that NYC's growth has always been about immigrants, which is absolutely fine, but apparently an unimpressive fact of CR analysis if you are Upstater or PJ. Uconn can survive the fact that CT is not a growth story - in my opinion - but I think its incorrect to dismiss the NC and VA demographic trends as merely fueled by immigration which doesnt serve the B1G target market. Stripping out immigration, its still a strong story and if you want to exclude immigration in your measurement of the south, then you need to do the same in the north.

I don't really believe that "immigrants" wherever they come from matters. TV sets are TV sets. The B1G doesn't care if no one in NJ watches Rutgers, so long as the cable subscribers have to pay for it anyway. You can import people from wherever so long as they have cable and are forced to pay. Doesn't matter if they don't ever watch the network. They have to pay for it regardless. I think that's the fundamental point and the one that actually matters.

 

[Exit 4]

I don't really believe that "immigrants" wherever they come from matters. TV sets are TV sets. The B1G doesn't care if no one in NJ watches Rutgers, so long as the cable subscribers have to pay for it anyway. You can import people from wherever so long as they have cable and are forced to pay. Doesn't matter if they don't ever watch the network. They have to pay for it regardless. I think that's the fundamental point and the one that actually matters.

Totally agree and this is one of my core points which started this tangent last night.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Here is some data. The flaws in the data are as follows.
1) Syracuse is getting credit for all of New York
2) B1G gets no credit for NYC at all with Rutgers
3) I did not add DC into ACC numbers, but it is 600K and only 23k in growth.

As you can see the absolute growth between the two conferencein their 2014 form is in favor of the B1G. You can also see why UVA, UNC and FSU are the big whoopers. If UCONN + Rutgers + 10M of NYC that that is a game changer also.

State 2012 estimate 2010 Census Change Covering Institution
District of Columbia 632,323 601,723 MD
Maryland 5,884,563 5,773,552 MD
Nebraska 1,855,525 1,826,341 UNL
Minnesota 5,379,139 5,303,925 U of M
Iowa 3,074,186 3,046,355 U of I
New Jersey 8,864,590 8,791,894 Rutgers
Indiana 6,537,334 6,483,802 IU & Purdue
Wisconsin 5,726,398 5,686,986 U of W
Pennsylvania 12,763,536 12,702,379 Penn State
Illinois 12,875,255 12,830,632 NW & U of I
Ohio 11,544,225 11,536,504 tOSU
Michigan 9,883,360 9,877,670 U of M & MSU
2014 B1G 85,020,434 74,584,093 10,436,341


State 2012 estimate 2010 Census Change
Florida 19,317,568 18,801,310 FSU & Miami
Virginia 8,201,849 8,001,024 UVA & VT
Georgia 9,919,945 9,687,653 GT
North Carolina 9,752,073 9,535,483 Duke, UNC, NCST & Wake
South Carolina 4,723,723 4,625,364 Clemson
New York 19,668,774 19,378,102 Syracuse
Massachusetts 6,612,450 6,547,629 BC
Pennsylvania 12,763,536 12,702,379 Pitt
Kentucky
4,380,415
4,339,367 Louisville
Indiana 6,537,334 6,483,802 ND
ACC in 2014 91,957,722 82,413,436 9,544,286

The data is flawed until the numbers are apportioned between the schools. The result is that the B1G dominates more states they are in (e.g. Maryland, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Jersey, Indiana, Illinios, Ohio, Michigan) that they ACC (I only count NC, and VA). I am too lazy to do the numbers but:

RE ACC:
Florida needs a large deduction for UF;
GA needs a huge deduction for UGA;
SC needs a large deduction for USC;
MA needs to be entirely deducted;
KY needs a large deduction for UK (pretty much everything but L'Ville);
PA needs an enormous deduction for PSU;
IN needs a very large deduction for IU / PU.

 

[GopherHawk]

Gopher, I think you have errors in your tallies. Using your numbers, I come up with a total B1G market of 85million as of 2012 with a 558k increase or .66% since 2010 and for the ACC market 101.8million with a 1.7MM increase or 1.77% since 2010.


2012 2010 raw change %
B1G 85,020,434 vs 84,461,763 for a 558,671 incresae or 0.66%
ACC 101,877,667 vs 100,102,113 for a 1,775,554 increase or 1.77%

You are correct. For some reason Excel was treating 2010 Michigan as text so it wasn't adding it in.

 

[hthusky74]

I don't really believe that "immigrants" wherever they come from matters. TV sets are TV sets. The B1G doesn't care if no one in NJ watches Rutgers, so long as the cable subscribers have to pay for it anyway. You can import people from wherever so long as they have cable and are forced to pay. Doesn't matter if they don't ever watch the network. They have to pay for it regardless. I think that's the fundamental point and the one that actually matters.

You are only partly right. If there is not enough demand for the network, then the cable system will not blanket subscribe to it. It will become a premium extra channel. The other thing is who watches the network does matter. The advertisers are not only interested in how many people are watching, but other demographic info such as age, sex, income, etc. and psychographis info. I may get a cheaper cpm (cost per thousand) advertising on Let's Make a Deal than on the PGA golf broadcast. However, if I am selling Mercedes autos or Bally shoes I would be more prone to advertise on the golf broadcast. It isn't always about the total numbers, but the "quality" of those numbers vis a vis the products I am selling. In the end, the advertising aspect drives a lot, if not most of this.

 

[chiller99]

Lot of interesting thought process going on here,sometimes things get over simplified .Dont forget when you mention NC you are talking about a state legislature that enacted laws to ensure UNC and State play ECU in football..not in hoops lol..no one is going to poach in that hen house.they bluntly dont give a who you want to watch on tv long as its UNC or State etc..One of the first southernisms you hear when you relocate ,even on military bases is "We dont care how you did it up north"...nuff said.

 

[Rumrunner]

The Big Ten owns its markets. The ACC has second choice programs in FL, GA, PA, SCar.

The comments of Swofford and others re the footprint coverage of the ACC is eerily similar to the quixotic quest of Marinatto to add Dallas, Houston, Philly, Memphis, etc. Look how that turned out.

Now the argument could be made that playing second fiddle in gA (realky third fiddle after UGA, Alabama) is worth some bonus points because of the football culture, but make no mistake the ACC outside of NC and VA possesses no "footprint" states as Delany and the big ten use that term.

The data is flawed until the numbers are apportioned between the schools. The result is that the B1G dominates more states they are in (e.g. Maryland, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Jersey, Indiana, Illinios, Ohio, Michigan) that they ACC (I only count NC, and VA). I am too lazy to do the numbers but:

RE ACC:
Florida needs a large deduction for UF;
GA needs a huge deduction for UGA;
SC needs a large deduction for USC;
MA needs to be entirely deducted;
KY needs a large deduction for UK (pretty much everything but L'Ville);
PA needs an enormous deduction for PSU;
IN needs a very large deduction for IU / PU.

 

[upstater]

All solid points here, dont disagree with anything other than to point out that NYC's growth has always been about immigrants, which is absolutely fine, but apparently an unimpressive fact of CR analysis if you are Upstater or PJ. Uconn can survive the fact that CT is not a growth story - in my opinion - but I think its incorrect to dismiss the NC and VA demographic trends as merely fueled by immigration which doesnt serve the B1G target market. Stripping out immigration, its still a strong story and if you want to exclude immigration in your measurement of the south, then you need to do the same in the north.

How long are you going to continue this charade? Every post has been in response to your contention that Delany should fear an ACC raid. So you changed your argument to something no one here ever mentioned, NC versus CT.

 

[Exit 4]

How long are you going to continue this charade? Every post has been in response to your contention that Delany should fear an ACC raid. So you changed your argument to something no one here ever mentioned, NC versus CT.

No, actually all of my posts have been about debunking your flippant comment that immigrants are the fuel behind the NC growth story. Comparing NC to CT provides relevant perspective.

 

[upstater]

No, actually all of my posts have been about debunking your flippant comment that immigrants are the fuel behind the NC growth story. Comparing NC to CT provides relevant perspective.

I never said that either. You constantly get things wrong. Again and again and again. You just make stuff up. I didn't say anything about North Carolina and immigrants. nor did I say anything about Connecticut. I made two comments: saying the ACC will raid the B1G, as you did, is flat out stupid, and second, immigration down south is a big cause of the pop. explosion down there.

That's it.

You consistently misinterpret and misstate things, create strawman arguments, draw offense where there is none. It starts with your comment that I said something derogatory about immigrants, which is ridiculous; then it moved on to the Conn. v. North Carolina thing.

You're like having a discussion with a moving target. I have no idea what you're even going on about half the time.

 

[Exit 4]

uchusky32 said: ↑​

Agree lived in Cary 11 years, wife, brother, sister in law all graduate from St. I'm a Uconn grad. Cant see bow in hell they sell that to the triangle. No damn way. Only only ones talking these schools breaking up don't live in the triangle. You won't get reelected if you let NCSt and UNC split (St schools). And yes Duke is private but the power of the triangle and the rivalries are worth more than people realize. Can't think of any other schools who are from the same St and drive the local sports economy.​

My response: I agree with you. MD had financial desperation. UNC and Duke are different. With the current demographic trends, they should be plucking Michigan and Ohio St from the B1G in 20yrs. I am sure that is their view - in private - after a few drinks.

​

Upstater's response: Demographics is a centennial type thing. Over 100 years. Put it this way, the state that lose more pop than any other was New Jersey, and they were just added because of their TV and their high school football. The losses are in the low thousands. The big gains in the southern states are mainly immigrants. <---since I was talking about the UNC and Duke, I have been focusing on NC​

​

I find all of your responses strawman and unsupported as well. Guess we have that for common ground.​

 

[CAHUSKY]

uchusky32 said: ↑​

Agree lived in Cary 11 years, wife, brother, sister in law all graduate from St. I'm a Uconn grad. Cant see bow in hell they sell that to the triangle. No damn way. Only only ones talking these schools breaking up don't live in the triangle. You won't get reelected if you let NCSt and UNC split (St schools). And yes Duke is private but the power of the triangle and the rivalries are worth more than people realize. Can't think of any other schools who are from the same St and drive the local sports economy.​

My response: I agree with you. MD had financial desperation. UNC and Duke are different. With the current demographic trends, they should be plucking Michigan and Ohio St from the B1G in 20yrs. I am sure that is their view - in private - after a few drinks.

​

Upstater's response: Demographics is a centennial type thing. Over 100 years. Put it this way, the state that lose more pop than any other was New Jersey, and they were just added because of their TV and their high school football. The losses are in the low thousands. The big gains in the southern states are mainly immigrants. <---since I was talking about the UNC and Duke, I have been focusing on NC​

​

I find all of your responses strawman and unsupported as well. Guess we have that for common ground.​

The immigration argument isn't really unsupported. Immigrant population has exploded in NC in the past 10 years. What that means to realignment I have no idea but it is a real phenomenon not just a figment of upstaters imagination

http://www.migrationinformation.org/datahub/state.cfm?ID=NC