B1G, ACC battle for New York

[upstater]

woomba enjoys CR as he stated. That's obvious. And he is more likely to have discourse than frank when engaged. And perhaps he is flexible about his attitude and not entrenched. But there have been posts he's made which are not much different than franks, imo, in the way he views the world outside the B!G. Perhaps he's a debater, like yourself, and his approach, like yours, is to engage to determine if the poster merits respect. He certainly respects you. And that means it isn't an attitude that I'm sensing but a misinterpretation of his style. If that's the case I'll reexamine my position. I'm not invested in being right.

But my hunch is that he is very clever at obscuring his real persona through the manipulation of ideas. And Butch in his joking may have hit the nail on the head!

I don't visit message boards of teams I'm not a fan of, but if I did and thought it was worth engaging, I'd probably make similar arguments. All I'd ask is that people have support for what they're saying. I have no doubt that people have misconceptions about UConn and don't think much of them. That being said, it's kind of stunning that Frank built this rep and yet he's the most closeminded of the bunch.

 

[ctchamps]

I don't visit message boards of teams I'm not a fan of, but if I did and thought it was worth engaging, I'd probably make similar arguments. All I'd ask is that people have support for what they're saying. I have no doubt that people have misconceptions about UConn and don't think much of them. That being said, it's kind of stunning that Frank built this rep and yet he's the most closeminded of the bunch.

Because people were enamored with his knowledge and credentials. Eventually more and more recognized the attitude shortcomings. (close-minded, arrogant, stand offish)

I don't have many rules about posting. But in specific situations I'll jump in. I'm very wary of mob mentality where emotions are gaining development in the masses that are not being tempered by reason. Thus if someone is flaming in a thread and is being taken to task I'm not in the least bit concerned unless the group is getting out the rope to hang the individual (emotionally I mean). Then I feel the need to speak up.

The other is teaching moments where I suspect there is a lot of confusion or misunderstanding of things about who we are and why we do the things we do.

 

[UConn Dan]

I went to Michigan for grad school even though I'm originally from NYC.

No real agenda. Realignment talk interests me and this is the only board that looks at it from an NE bent which interests me given my roots

OK... welcome.

Sorry I told you to duck off earlier. That's what happens when I don't read an entire sequence.

Edited for clarity.

 

[woomba]

UConn hasn't had much opportunity to play ranked teams OOC. In fact, I can't remember ANY ranked OOC teams for UConn since they started BE play other than Oklahoma. They have had games against Notre Dame, South Carolina, Michigan, Baylor, NC State, Virginia, Maryland and the like, but none of those teams were ranked when UConn played them (although some were ranked at points during the seasons UConn played them). UConn won some and lost some. UConn is probably .500 against P5 competition. Not sure what you mean by no wins against the P5. I assume you mean no wins against top ranked P5 teams. if that's what you mean, you have to take into account that they've only played one such game at all in the last decade.

Also, the "best wins" metric inside the BE makes my eyes squirrely, as UConn has beaten ranked Pitt, Cincy and USF teams (the year USF was ranked 3rd early was a year they also lost to UConn). I'm not sure what differentiates a victory over Rutgers from a victory over a ranked Cincy team.

Regardless, I'm sure UConn fans remember different big wins than whatever metric you're using.

Well, that's what happens if we look at end of season rankings Sometimes we (as fans) forget that teams that were ranked when our teams played them ended the season poorly while the opposite can also happen.

Looking at the rankings it looks like outside of Oklahoma the only other opponent UConn played that ended the season ranked was 2006 Wake Forest - they ended #18 after going 11-3 so you're right that UConn hasn't had that many opportunities. I thought 2007 Virginia would also be on that list but it looks like they just missed the Top 25 despite going 9-4.

 

[woomba]

OK... welcome.

Sorry I told you to duck earlier. That's what happens when I don't read an entire sequence.

NP - being passionate for your home team is a great thing.

 

[JayRU09]

Top level OOC schools never took much interest in recent years scheduling RU/UConn/Cincy.

Schools that play tough fast defense and aren't the highest level national draws aren't worth it to these schools.

You'll get one every so often but not on a regular basis.

 

[Sea Goat]

NP - being passionate for your home team is a great thing.

Besides, we need some provocative stuff on these blogs anyways. Otherwise it becomes an exercise in buying into you're own propaganda.

 

[UConn Dan]

Besides, we need some provocative stuff on these blogs anyways. Otherwise it becomes an exercise in buying into you're own propaganda.

I drink the koolaid!

 

[JayRU09]

When UConn Dan drinks his kool aid, does he become HuskyFanDan?

Is it like a cheesy 90s superhero cartoon?

 

[billybud]

I am a college football junky and have been for a lifetime.

One's viewpoint is most often a function of one's vantage point. And I have found that our vantage points are widely varied depending on region, conference and program.

I do bring a different perspective to a NE board, that of a North Florida Seminole fan. Sometimes we want everybody to see the world as we do...but the fact is, by discussing CR on board of another region, I access a different view than I get from my conference cronies' boards. And, you will get a different view from me.

Some may take umbrage to that view. I view it all as education and entertainment and don't begrudge anyone their viewpoint. Like all of us, I do believe in simple rules.

State your opinion honestly, explain your reasoning, try not to get personal nor ugly with a poster and avoid "kiddie board" smack talk.

We all have that natural bias based on our vantage point and experiences.....

 

[RMoore1999]

I am a college football junky and have been for a lifetime.

One's viewpoint is most often a function of one's vantage point. And I have found that our vantage points are widely varied depending on region, conference and program.

I do bring a different perspective to a NE board, that of a North Florida Seminole fan. Sometimes we want everybody to see the world as we do...but the fact is, by discussing CR on board of another region, I access a different view than I get from my conference cronies' boards. And, you will get a different view from me.

Some may take umbrage to that view. I view it all as education and entertainment and don't begrudge anyone their viewpoint. Like all of us, I do believe in simple rules.

State your opinion honestly, explain your reasoning, try not to get personal nor ugly with a poster and avoid "kiddie board" smack talk.

We all have that natural bias based on our vantage point and experiences.....

Very rationally stated. Now please provide an "insider's" advice as to who at FSU we need pics on should the B1G door ever officially close and the ACC becomes our only other option.

 

[NickyNewark]

Of course B1G fans will talk up Rutgers...they have an ownership motive.

I think that you would find that the SEC fan's view of Rutgers to be not dissimilar to that of ACC fans. It is just that UAB and Troy are better known in the south than Rutgers.

Most regions are myopic and disregard programs from other regions...I know that the Big Ten was dismissive of FSU years ago...until FSU went up there and beat Ohio State (twice in back to back years in Columbus), beat Michigan State twice and set the scoring record in Michigan's Big House in Ann Arbor.

The way to build respect is to beat teams of a known quality. The "gold standard" for a quality win is a win over a team that is End Year Ranked. These teams, by definition, will win 80% of their games.

Rutgers, since 2000, has never beaten a team from another conference who is End Year Ranked (AP or Coaches). They have won 10% of their games with teams that are End Year Ranked....(3-28-0 or .097 win record). The three wins were Cincinnati (X2) and WVU.

The path to football respect is paved by winning against quality teams. Win and respect follows.

Very sensible unlike Stimpy....I remember in the 80s RU playing with undermanned 1AA type rosters going up to play UTenn and the local paper said "Whats A Rutgers?"...RU shut them out 13-0 I believe and Alabama came to NY/NJ(nationally televised) around that same time and barely escaped w/a win and they never gave us a game since and the same story with UFla in Gainesville in the 80s I believe but as 29pt dogs we played them to a draw and in "88" we beat PSU 21-16?I believe at there house!!So I understand the metric and know what has to be done!Heck it wasn't long ago Oregon was looked down on and Wiscky too !!I and anyone aware of east coast FB can see something happening at least with the FB team at RU...a slow gradual buzz especially among young recruits is happening there and you'd have to be unaware or dishonest to dismiss it!BillyBudd,I detect no sarcasm or trollish behaviour from you and like your avatar and USMC service and you actually contribute an honest southern viewpoint w/o stimps arrogance so welcome to the Northeast and I look forward to reading more of your posts!!Semper Fi Do or Die!!!....BTW I never bothered to check all those stats you posted it just ain't important enough to waste that much time to me and I'm happy and confident in where we "RU" are!But until UConn gets justice I won't truly enjoy FB season's as much as I should!!

 

[NickyNewark]

We beat USF one year after they climbed to No. 2 (I think they beat Auburn when they were No. 1 to climb that high). They lost a game before they played us, so they weren't No. 2 when we beat them, but they may have been No. 10 or so.

Our best wins are ones where maybe the opponent wasn't ranked, but they made a statement: beating ND at ND, shutting out South Carolina in a bowl, throttling Iowa State, beating Baylor with RGIII. Some blowouts over teams like Duke, Wake and Indiana that proved we could hack it in the big leagues without being a doormat. We don't pretend to be Michigan or Ohio State football-wise, but for a short time at the FBS level, we've done a lot. The AD/coach rift (former AD now) and poor hire afterward have drained our momentum in the last two years, though.

I think that was the year RU beat them down on a Thursday night national game when they were #2 or #3 nationally(their highest rank ever) in one of those RU highlight type games like L'ville "06"!!The BE had some nice exposure in those weeknight games that so many viewed!I hope Aresco can do something to give the AAC some of that kind of national viewing opportunity for UConn?...Didn't USF give FSU a shocking beatdown that year?

 

[Gfunk]

Because people were enamored with his knowledge and credentials. Eventually more and more recognized the attitude shortcomings. (close-minded, arrogant, stand offish)

I don't have many rules about posting. But in specific situations I'll jump in. I'm very wary of mob mentality where emotions are gaining development in the masses that are not being tempered by reason. Thus if someone is flaming in a thread and is being taken to task I'm not in the least bit concerned unless the group is getting out the rope to hang the individual (emotionally I mean). Then I feel the need to speak up.

The other is teaching moments where I suspect there is a lot of confusion or misunderstanding of things about who we are and why we do the things we do.

I'm a BIG fan, you all know that, though certain schools come first and foremost & I'm very willing to root against conference foes when they play teams from other conferences.

As for your thoughts on FranktheTank - man that board is loaded with certain groups of truly arrogant, self-serving, completely clueless types who pose as intellectuals.

As a BIG fan, it's truly too easy to play devil's advocate to the BIG claims & I can imagine non-BIG fans know the following - 3 stunningly true facts:

1.) Football championships over the past 40 years (ACTUAL MEMBERSHIP MIND YOU)

2.) Second place finishes and actual NC's in basketball the past 20 years

3.) How often blue chips basketball or football recruits leave the conference footprint

And as some of you may know, Illinois, Frank's alma mater is the biggest underachiever in the BIG (football and basketball), and it isn't even close. Chicago Land, alone, = awesome hs basketball. How many NC's does Illinois have? Big, fat ZERO. In football, they are constantly getting out-recruited by neighbors w/their in-state talent. Illinois is the most populated state in the BIG.

On the other hand, there is a tone of constructive discussion, often enough, on that board. And once expansion talk is abandoned for other sports discussions, some of the best threads manifest.

But in terms of expansion, never be fooled by certain loyalists over there. They speak of expansion candidates as if they will come to the BIG with open arms & they so often put their narrow-minded, profit driven rhetoric behind such claims, almost always laced with academic prestige bs. The utter stupidity of some on there to constantly stick with UVa, UNC, GT, among others, as potential & sometimes likely candidates clearly demonstrates the provincial minded reasoning they cling to - never mind how the actual schools, their administration, alum and t-shirt fans feel. This folks didn't bother to observe how upset the vast majority of Md fans were about the BIG move & frankly they don't care. They predominantly see the dollar signs.

But, one thing I've learned about this expansion mania, surprises happen. So I don't need to eat crow if say UNC, GT, or Va do jump for the BIG. However, I'd be shocked.

 

[upstater]

I am a college football junky and have been for a lifetime.

One's viewpoint is most often a function of one's vantage point. And I have found that our vantage points are widely varied depending on region, conference and program.

I do bring a different perspective to a NE board, that of a North Florida Seminole fan. Sometimes we want everybody to see the world as we do...but the fact is, by discussing CR on board of another region, I access a different view than I get from my conference cronies' boards. And, you will get a different view from me.

Some may take umbrage to that view. I view it all as education and entertainment and don't begrudge anyone their viewpoint. Like all of us, I do believe in simple rules.

State your opinion honestly, explain your reasoning, try not to get personal nor ugly with a poster and avoid "kiddie board" smack talk.

We all have that natural bias based on our vantage point and experiences.....

About the only rule I'd like to see adopted is for other fans to respect recruiting threads. Those threads should be about the players, and two often they become peeing matches.

 

[upstater]

I'm a BIG fan, you all know that, though certain schools come first and foremost & I'm very willing to root against conference foes when they play teams from other conferences.

As for your thoughts on FranktheTank - man that board is loaded with certain groups of truly arrogant, self-serving, completely clueless types who pose as intellectuals.

As a BIG fan, it's truly too easy to play devil's advocate to the BIG claims & I can imagine non-BIG fans know the following - 3 stunningly true facts:

1.) Football championships over the past 40 years (ACTUAL MEMBERSHIP MIND YOU)

2.) Second place finishes and actual NC's in basketball the past 20 years

3.) How often blue chips basketball or football recruits leave the conference footprint

And as some of you may know, Illinois, Frank's alma mater is the biggest underachiever in the BIG (football and basketball), and it isn't even close. Chicago Land, alone, = awesome hs basketball. How many NC's does Illinois have? Big, fat ZERO. In football, they are constantly getting out-recruited by neighbors w/their in-state talent. Illinois is the most populated state in the BIG.

On the other hand, there is a tone of constructive discussion, often enough, on that board. And once expansion talk is abandoned for other sports discussions, some of the best thread manifest.

But in terms of expansion, never be fooled by certain loyalists over there. They speak of expansion candidates as if they will come to the BIG with open arms & they so often put their narrow-minded, profit driven rhetoric behind such claims, almost always laced with academic prestige bs. The utter stupidity of some on there to constantly stick with UVa, UNC, GT, among others, as potential & sometimes likely candidates clearly demonstrates the provincial minded reasoning they cling to - never mind how the actual schools, their administration, alum and t-shirt fans feel. This folks didn't bother to observe how upset the vast majority of Md fans were about the BIG move & frankly they don't care. They predominantly see the dollar signs.

But, one thing I've learned about this expansion mania, surprises happen. So I don't need to eat crow if say UNC, GT, or Va do jump for the BIG. However, I'd be shocked.

The big problem I have is that they have a lot of access to information, statistics, they all seem to be smart, but they are so entrenched in their positions that any counters based in stats or metrics will be ignored. They will fall back on schoolyard logic when the facts go against their perceptions.

 

[Gfunk]

The big problem I have is that they have a lot of access to information, statistics, they all seem to be smart, but they are so entrenched in their positions that any counters based in stats or metrics will be ignored. They will fall back on schoolyard logic when the facts go against their perceptions.

Read those links carefully & you'll inevitably realize what's painfully obvious with the links: much so-called journalism, esp the sports type, abandons truth for opinionated commentary & speculation.

What I've learned about expansion: even the most credible news agencies don't know details until the singular days leading up to the move, or the day the news actually breaks.

PSEUDO-INTELLECTUALISM works very well on FTT, as well as the fact that everyone is under an alias, thus daring, rather opinionated claims can be made & smack talk can run its course.

 

[billybud]

LOL...

I assume that some would label me as a "psuedointellectual". I am decently educated, well read, like data, and tend to post in complete sentences. I don't watch cartoons on Saturday morning.

How can one be a "bonified intelleectual" or is psuedo the on;y type that we recognize?

 

[itgoeslike]

I'm a BIG fan, you all know that, though certain schools come first and foremost & I'm very willing to root against conference foes when they play teams from other conferences.

As for your thoughts on FranktheTank - man that board is loaded with certain groups of truly arrogant, self-serving, completely clueless types who pose as intellectuals.

As a BIG fan, it's truly too easy to play devil's advocate to the BIG claims & I can imagine non-BIG fans know the following - 3 stunningly true facts:

1.) Football championships over the past 40 years (ACTUAL MEMBERSHIP MIND YOU)

2.) Second place finishes and actual NC's in basketball the past 20 years

3.) How often blue chips basketball or football recruits leave the conference footprint

And as some of you may know, Illinois, Frank's alma mater is the biggest underachiever in the BIG (football and basketball), and it isn't even close. Chicago Land, alone, = awesome hs basketball. How many NC's does Illinois have? Big, fat ZERO. In football, they are constantly getting out-recruited by neighbors w/their in-state talent. Illinois is the most populated state in the BIG.

On the other hand, there is a tone of constructive discussion, often enough, on that board. And once expansion talk is abandoned for other sports discussions, some of the best threads manifest.

But in terms of expansion, never be fooled by certain loyalists over there. They speak of expansion candidates as if they will come to the BIG with open arms & they so often put their narrow-minded, profit driven rhetoric behind such claims, almost always laced with academic prestige bs. The utter stupidity of some on there to constantly stick with UVa, UNC, GT, among others, as potential & sometimes likely candidates clearly demonstrates the provincial minded reasoning they cling to - never mind how the actual schools, their administration, alum and t-shirt fans feel. This folks didn't bother to observe how upset the vast majority of Md fans were about the BIG move & frankly they don't care. They predominantly see the dollar signs.

But, one thing I've learned about this expansion mania, surprises happen. So I don't need to eat crow if say UNC, GT, or Va do jump for the BIG. However, I'd be shocked.

That is a reasonable, realistic and refreshing assessment of the B1G (and some of its fans) from a B1G fan.Unfortunately, we have to endure a couple of Big fans that try to devalue real, tangible accomplishments by UCONN, and feverishly seek out remote and irrelevant facts that might be perceived as detrimental, while habitually overstating the football product and academics of the B1G. As noted above, the same fans ignore the fact that the B1G hasn't had a lot of success attracting bellwether schools to date (this could change).

The irony, is that UCONN gets bashed by teams that are blatant underachievers, while garnering respect from schools that have won multiple national championships, i.e., Kansas, UNC, and even Duke.

 

[SouthronCross]

I think Duke would have something to say about the UConn's woman's team. So would ND.

Carolina's women would, too, on occasion. At least I would hope so.

 

[SouthronCross]

That is not even a consideration given that the Big Ten will no longer play FCS teams, as a conference.

That ASU game was a shocker on soooooo many levels.

Conceiveably, it could happen again, as App State, alongside Georgia Southern, moved into the FBS this season. Both joined the Sunbelt Conference.

 

[SouthronCross]

Top level OOC schools never took much interest in recent years scheduling RU/UConn/Cincy.

Schools that play tough fast defense and aren't the highest level national draws aren't worth it to these schools.

You'll get one every so often but not on a regular basis.

The Rutgers-UNC games from 2010 and 2011 were darned good games. Both went right down to the wire. We were lucky to win both of them, when we probably should have lost both.

 

[woomba]

Conceiveably, it could happen again, as App State, alongside Georgia Southern, moved into the FBS this season. Both joined the Sunbelt Conference.

If you're referring to App State the game's already scheduled for next year. If Michigan somehow botches that again we'll never live it down.

 

[SouthronCross]

One of the things I like about these forums is to observe posters. It's hard to get a good gauge of our personalities with just the written word but there is enough evidence to get a first impression.

woomba is a big ten guy, like frank, that comes to this forum reminding us of "his" conference's superiority and how UConn is unworthy of joining the club.
frank uses a different style, but in the end the two of them are very similar in that they get pleasure at elevating themselves by putting others down. They are just plain arrogant.
billybudd is more about defending the position of FSU in choosing Ville over UConn. He's not necessarily coming from a place of superiority but naturally, like many of us, loves shining the positive light on the university he roots for with an occasional demeaning statement.
Southroncross and bstimpy strongly feel UConn would be an asset to the ACC and should have been selected from the get go. Southron is here just to have discourse and wants to know more about the northeast and UConn in particular. bstimpy is very confident in his position and actually quite balanced in how he thinks. Reminds me somewhat of businesslawyer. He intrigues me in that he has the attitude to want challenge (UConn, Cuse as bb partners) even if the challenge could adversely impact his alma maters standing.
NickyNewark strongly wants UConn as a partner in the B!G. He's defensive for Rutgers but that is understandable.
B!GALUM, GohperHawk and Gfunk are B!G guys who would love UConn in the B!G, are proud of their conference but have stayed for the most part away from engagement about whose better or worse.

Hope this scorecard helps you and others.

That is a spot on eval. The give and take has been fun, and, its cool to hear from fans who've offered an impartial and reasoned perspective on how it played out, and, why the choices were either good or bad.

I am fascinated by CR, and, the ramifications of it. I freely admit I was shocked when Pitt was chosen over UConn. I have nothing against Pitt, and, I welcome them to the league. Ditto Syracuse, and, Louisville.

When the ACC was first formed, it decided to be a basketball-focused league, unlike our Southern brothers, the SEC. It made us unique, and, we built a great national rand from it. Adding those three teams boosts the brand. It just amazed me that the ACC flat out whiffed on grabbing the northeast's biggest hoops brand (men's & women's) to finish it off. The national cred UConn would bring will no longer be available to the ACC anymore, if you receive and accept a B1G invite.

Its alway been my position that 'football drives, the bus, basketball sits in the front seat.' The content that conference networks would need to survive will be driven in large part by hoops. If an ACCN ever comes to pass, we'll have plenty. UConn would've added so much more, on both sides. I hope the league does not come to regret not choosing you in 2011.

 

[Adios]

What might be fortunate about being UConn is we can also leave the B1G for the ACC. I don't see any reason, though. We can schedule ACC out of conference.