Att: Visiting southern and midwestern hayseeds

[pinotbear]

Okielite, Pennsylvania is an interesting state, demographically. The eastern 20% or so certainly feels NE - Philly, Allentown, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. (as I drive across the state, I often notice a change in the radio playlists, once I get west of Allentown. Lots more country music.). Then, when you travel around Gettysburg n' Chambersburg, and see that red clay soil, it feels like parts of Virginia.

Somebody in politics once described PA as "Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburg in the west, and Alabama in the middle". For all the eastern urban influence near Philly, and the mid-western proximity to Pittsburg, much of the central part of the state is farm country and energy/mining, and is pretty politically, socially and religiously conservative. Some of the reasons that PA is such a fascinating & contested "battleground" state in national elections.

 

[upstater]

Houston attendance ranged form 20k-34k last season
UConn attendance ranged from 17k - 42k last season
UConn has a slight edge but also has the least attended game as well and Houston is in the middle of a stadium remodel so their attendance was down playing in Reliant instead of their home stadium.
I have no idea how you came up with Houston having half the interest as UConn but the data does not support that claim. What did you base this claim on?

When I say the NE I guess I dont' consider Pennsylvania as part of that. I was referring to NY, Jersey, Conn, Mass, Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire. I dont' consider Maryland to be much of a football power either.

PA is northeast. What else would it be?

as for Houston, watch the games. Fannies in the seats, not giveaway tickets. Such things as ticket prices, turnstiles etc., count too you know,

 

[itgoeslike]

True but as a % of yearly conference payouts 10 million for an AAC team is huge. That was my point. When you are only getting a few million per year it's a big deal. What is the payout for UConn in the AAC?

It's a silly point to make. You have to look at what you are getting in return for the exit fee payment (investment). The $10M represents 50% (or less) of a single year of a P5 payout, whereas $50M represents as much as 2.5 years of a P5 payout. Most people recognize that the first option would generate a much better return on investment. . .

 

[itgoeslike]

True but as a % of yearly conference payouts 10 million for an AAC team is huge. That was my point. When you are only getting a few million per year it's a big deal. What is the payout for UConn in the AAC?

Beyond TV contracts (ESPN and CBS), the AAC conference will pay out revenue generated from the BCS (this year), contract bowls, a share of the NCAA playoffs (27% allocated for five G5 teams valued at about $100M annually), a potential appearance in a premier bowl, and a future AAC championship game. Then you have NCAA tournament credits (paid out on a rolling 6 year basis) and the AAC basketball championship. Finally you have the NCAA grants-in-aid fund and other disbursements. UConn will also receive $20M in additional revenue to be paid out over the next five years which relate to exit fees and other revenue. This represents another $4M to $6.7M annually. TV contract revenue, as in past years, will not represent the majority of overall conference disbursements.

 

[UPitt]

PA is northeast. What else would it be?

I tend to agree with okielite. Eastern PA is very much a northeast state and Philly is practically a city in NJ. Eastern PA does much of its business relations with other eastern cities and states and it shows in the lifestyles and cultures of eastern PA. By contrast, Western PA does much of its business with states from the midwest and south, and it shows in the lifestyles and cultures of western PA, just as it does with eastern PA. This is likely because the river and rail system has always provided better trade routes to the west and south for western PA, and Eastern PA used river and rail systems connected to the eastern seaboard. Like okielite said, PA is very diverse politically and socially.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Taking Pitt and Louisville did hamper the Big 12's expansion plans. You have to ask yourself, who was more stupid, the ACC or the Big 12?

The Big 12 really blew it irrevocably. When you think they could have had WV,Pitt,
Cinn , and Louisville. Two great existing rivalry games all within a reasonable distance. I think they made the bigger mistake. The ACC could rectify their error in a heart beat as long as we are in the AAC, UConn to the B1g would put the ACC neck and neck with the Big 12 for should haves.

 

[upstater]

I tend to agree with okielite. Eastern PA is very much a northeast state and Philly is practically a city in NJ. Eastern PA does much of its business relations with other eastern cities and states and it shows in the lifestyles and cultures of eastern PA. By contrast, Western PA does much of its business with states from the midwest and south, and it shows in the lifestyles and cultures of western PA, just as it does with eastern PA. This is likely because the river and rail system has always provided better trade routes to the west and south for western PA, and Eastern PA used river and rail systems connected to the eastern seaboard. Like okielite said, PA is very diverse politically and socially.

While I agree with all of this, okielite didn't say any of that.

 

[itgoeslike]

You can't rely on other schools to fill your stadium for you, but I can see 5-10k extra fans per game if you were a B1G school. And even if you were right your stadium only holds 40k so that is still well below most power conference teams.

To put all this in perspective your last game barely had 17k people in attendance. That is almost identical to the university of Tulsa's lowest attended game last year. The university of Tulsa only has 4k students and is completely overshadowed by OU and OSU in the state. That fact that a tiny(smallest in FBS) private school has similar attendance to UConn which is a huge state flagship school in a more populated area shows that there is a problem in the NE with interest in CFB. Increasing fan interest in UConn FB is extremely important right now. Even getting more students at games would help solidify UConn as a power conference team.

You are cherry picking data. That game was an anomaly. It was frigid day at the end of a tough season. In 2012, UConn averaged 34,672 per game, whereas Tulsa averaged 20,020 each game. It's not even close. Our attendance is closer to Baylor and Kansas than it is to Tulsa. Even with the 17K anomaly, we averaged 33,000 this year. That's not good, but it's far from your characterization. I'm confident our new HC will begin reversing the damage done over the past 3 years and get us closer to capacity.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2012.pdf

 

[okielite]

Beyond TV contracts (ESPN and CBS), the AAC conference will pay out revenue generated from the BCS (this year), contract bowls, a share of the NCAA playoffs (27% allocated for five G5 teams valued at about $100M annually), a potential appearance in a premier bowl, and a future AAC championship game. Then you have NCAA tournament credits (paid out on a rolling 6 year basis) and the AAC basketball championship. Finally you have the NCAA grants-in-aid fund and other disbursements. UConn will also receive $20M in additional revenue to be paid out over the next five years which relate to exit fees and other revenue. This represents another $4M to $6.7M annually. TV contract revenue, as in past years, will not represent the majority of overall conference disbursements.

That is all fine and dandy but comparing the TV payout to the exit fees I believe we are still talking 2-3 years worth of payouts. That was my only point, at 10million the AAC payout seems pretty high compared to the payouts the schools receive from the TV contract(not including all the other stuff you mentioned). I was comparing that to Maryland being asked to pay 50 million which is appx 2.5 times the yearly TV payout for the ACC.

 

[itgoeslike]

That is all fine and dandy but comparing the TV payout to the exit fees I believe we are still talking 2-3 years worth of payouts. That was my only point, at 10million the AAC payout seems pretty high compared to the payouts the schools receive from the TV contract(not including all the other stuff you mentioned). I was comparing that to Maryland being asked to pay 50 million which is appx 2.5 times the yearly TV payout for the ACC.

It's all relative. I would rather pay a $10M to join a conference that pays out $25M than pay $50M to join a conference that pays out $25M. But that's just me. Trust me, there are a few teams in the AAC that would love have the opportunity to pony up the $10M.

 

[okielite]

It's a silly point to make. You have to look at what you are getting in return for the exit fee payment (investment). The $10M represents 50% (or less) of a single year of a P5 payout, whereas $50M represents as much as 2.5 years of a P5 payout. Most people recognize that the first option would generate a much better return on investment. . .

Why compare the AAC exit fee to a Power conference TV payout? They are not related. Compare the AAC exit fee compared to the AAC TV payout and you have a real comparison much like comparing what Maryland pays versus the yearly AAC payout or what Nebraska, aTm, Colorado, and Mizzou paid when they left the Big 12. IF I remember correctly they did not pay much more than 10 million.

You are correct that paying the AAC exit fee is a good investment, nobody is debating that.

What is the TV contract worth for each AAC team?

 

[okielite]

It's all relative. I would rather pay a $10M to join a conference that pays out $25M than pay $50M to join a conference that pays out $25M. But that's just me. Trust me, there are a few teams in the AAC that would love have the opportunity to pony up the $10M.

I have no doubt that there are schools willing to pay the exit fee to go to a power conference. There are a few who should be in a power conference like UConn.

One thing to keep in mind is that the fees are not to join a conference, they are to leave a conference. the 10 million exit fee(if that is indeed true) seems ridiculous to me when you compare it to what they pay out. I can see 1 or possibly 2 years payout being reasonable but really anything beyond 1 year is just unreasonable IMO.

 

[itgoeslike]

Why compare the AAC exit fee to a Power conference TV payout? They are not related. Compare the AAC exit fee compared to the AAC TV payout and you have a real comparison much like comparing what Maryland pays versus the yearly AAC payout or what Nebraska, aTm, Colorado, and Mizzou paid when they left the Big 12. IF I remember correctly they did not pay much more than 10 million.

You are correct that paying the AAC exit fee is a good investment, nobody is debating that.

What is the TV contract worth for each AAC team?

Paying an exit fee and the conference payout of a new conference is directly related. Ask Maryland and West Virginia. Comparing the current exit fee with your current payout would only be relevant if it was your only revenue stream. UConn generates more revenue than many P5 teams, including members of the B12. The current contract represents about 3% of our revenue, which is unfortunate.

 

[itgoeslike]

I have no doubt that there are schools willing to pay the exit fee to go to a power conference. There are a few who should be in a power conference like UConn.

One thing to keep in mind is that the fees are not to join a conference, they are to leave a conference. the 10 million exit fee(if that is indeed true) seems ridiculous to me when you compare it to what they pay out. I can see 1 or possibly 2 years payout being reasonable but really anything beyond 1 year is just unreasonable IMO.

I was being sarcastic when I said "some" teams, they all would gladly pay the $10M exit fee (except maybe Temple). Most UConn fans are from the East, so sarcasm comes into play. Keep that in mind when conversing with a UConn fan. Thanks for the tutorial on what an exit fee is (that was sarcasm too). Conversely, and in fairness, I'll try to keep in mind that you are a midwesterner and were actually trying to help me out. . .

 

[okielite]

You are cherry picking data. That game was an anomaly. It was frigid day at the end of a tough season. In 2012, UConn averaged 34,672 per game, whereas Tulsa averaged 20,020 each game. It's not even close. Our attendance is closer to Baylor and Kansas than it is to Tulsa. Even with the 17K anomaly, we averaged 33,000 this year. That's not good, but it's far from your characterization. I'm confident our new HC will begin reversing the damage done over the past 3 years and get us closer to capacity.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2012.pdf

I used last years data. Not sure how that is cherry picking. Here is your last years numbers
30,38,42,37,27,22,17
Total average is about 30k

Baylor=43,44,42,39,38,39. Total average is just under 41k. Baylor has appx 36% higher attendance or nearly 11k more people at games. That is a pretty big difference IMO. Especially for a small bible school compared to a huge state flagship. They are also building a new stadium. I believe is is in the 400 million range.
http://baylor-stadium.com/

Houston=26,34,20,33, 22, 20, 23= 23.5k average. So you beat Houston by 6,500 fans per game. Keep in mind that they played games at Reliant this year because they are adding on to their stadium which obviously hurts attendance. I believe the remodel is around 160 million
http://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/article/UH-ups-the-sports-ante-by-160-million-1708595.php

In the end UConn can't afford to have games with 17k fans if they are trying to make the jump to a power conference. Anything less than 20k just screams mid major. Hopefully the new coach can bring that average up closer to 40k. Winning will be tough but I think UConn is poised to be the dominant school in the AAC if they can improve the FB product on the field. Do you have any upgrades planned for your FB facilities?

 

[okielite]

Paying an exit fee and the conference payout of a new conference is directly related. Ask Maryland and West Virginia. Comparing the current exit fee with your current payout would only be relevant if it was your only revenue stream. UConn generates more revenue than many P5 teams, including members of the B12. The current contract represents about 3% of our revenue, which is unfortunate.

If that is how you want to look at it then so be it. I think a conference exit fee should be around 1 years disbursement from that conference. I don't think a AAC exit fee should be based on payouts from other conferences as they are not related in any way.

So you think an exit fee should be determined by the conference you are joining and not determined by the conference you are leaving. That is an interesting way to look at it.

What is UConn's payout from the AAC TV contract?

 

[itgoeslike]

I used last years data. Not sure how that is cherry picking. Here is your last years numbers
30,38,42,37,27,22,17
Total average is about 30k

Baylor=43,44,42,39,38,39. Total average is just under 41k. Baylor has appx 36% higher attendance or nearly 11k more people at games. That is a pretty big difference IMO. Especially for a small bible school compared to a huge state flagship. They are also building a new stadium. I believe is is in the 400 million range.
http://baylor-stadium.com/

Houston=26,34,20,33, 22, 20, 23= 23.5k average. So you beat Houston by 6,500 fans per game. Keep in mind that they played games at Reliant this year because they are adding on to their stadium which obviously hurts attendance. I believe the remodel is around 160 million
http://www.chron.com/sports/cougars/article/UH-ups-the-sports-ante-by-160-million-1708595.php

In the end UConn can't afford to have games with 17k fans if they are trying to make the jump to a power conference. Anything less than 20k just screams mid major. Hopefully the new coach can bring that average up closer to 40k. Winning will be tough but I think UConn is poised to be the dominant school in the AAC if they can improve the FB product on the field. Do you have any upgrades planned for your FB facilities?

Look at the 10 year average using the NCAA statistics for UConn versus Tulsa (which is the team you were comparing us to). You'll see that we are closer to Baylor than Tulsa. You'll also see that the number you are basing your argument on, was an anomaly.

 

[itgoeslike]

If that is how you want to look at it then so be it. I think a conference exit fee should be around 1 years disbursement from that conference. I don't think a AAC exit fee should be based on payouts from other conferences as they are not related in any way.

So you think an exit fee should be determined by the conference you are joining and not determined by the conference you are leaving. That is an interesting way to look at it.

What is UConn's payout from the AAC TV contract?

A year's disbursement or the valuation of a TV contract? They are not necessarily one in the same. I never said that a conference's exit fees should be based on another conference's anything. You were suggesting that the AAC exit fee was prohibitive when compared to the ACC's exit fee. I pointed out that it wasn't. To answer your question (although I have to presume you have an internet connection), the valuation of the TV contracts specifically is approximately $2.2M.

 

[okielite]

Look at the 10 year average using the NCAA statistics for UConn versus Tulsa (which is the team you were comparing us to). You'll see that we are closer to Baylor than Tulsa. You'll also see that the number you are basing your argument on, was an anomaly.

10 year averages have nothing to do with today. Baylor has come a long way in the last 10 years. Where they were in 2004 has nothing to do with where they are in 2014. But if it makes you feel better to use that 10 year average feel free. Baylor is dumping hundreds of millions of dollars into it's facilities. That is what it takes to grow a brand like they have done the last 5 years. That is what UConn needs to be doing if they want to stand out in the AAC.

17k is not an anomaly when you had another game with 22k. You can't remove your worst game from your average, doesn't' work like that.

 

[NickyNewark]

Hey...will be leaving Sunday for NY...will be at the MSG Tuesday for 7:00 PM game (first visit to NY)....Will be outa here for a week.

All I know about New York is that the Bronx is up and the Battery is down....Still looking for a hotel as I type.

If you're looking for reasonable rates at a midtown location I'd suggest the Ramada on 48/49th st and 8th ave I believe or the Hotel Pierre on the east side of Central Park East area (but it'll cost ya) if you're spending freely. I've been quite a few miles(135) from Manhatten for the last 11 yrs except going through!!

 

[Fishy]

Our football facilities are essentially brand new.

Shall we build brand new ones next to the almost new ones just for giggles?

 

[okielite]

/*/

A year's disbursement or the valuation of a TV contract? They are not necessarily one in the same. I never said that a conference's exit fees should be based on another conference's anything. You were suggesting that the AAC exit fee was prohibitive when compared to the ACC's exit fee. I pointed out that it wasn't. To answer your question (although I have to presume you have an internet connection), the valuation of the TV contracts specifically is approximately $2.2M.

I think you are not understanding my point.
ACC exit fee =$50 million
ACC TV payout= Appx 20 milllion
ACC exit fee is 2.5 times the payout.

AAC exit fee(not confirmed)= 10 million
AAC TV payout= 2.2 million
AAC exit fee is 4,5 times the yearly payout.

Big 12 exit fee if I remember correctly was 12-15 million
At that time that was about what we were making per year
So the Big 12 exit fee was appx 1 year disbursement

That is my point. Charging more than 1 years payout is ridiculous, and paying 4.5 years of payouts is absolutely absurd. The exit fee for the AAC is excessive IMO.
To put it in perspective that would be like the Big 12 charging a 90 million (20 million x 4.5) $ exit fee. See how out of what a exit fee of 4.5 times payouts is?

BTW that really sucks that you only make 2.2 million. Clearly UConn is worth waaay more than that.

 

[okielite]

Our football facilities are essentially brand new.

Shall we build brand new ones next to the almost new ones just for giggles?

I did not realize you had a new stadium, how long ago was it built?

It's not just about the stadium. Gotta include indoor practice facilities, weight facilities, training facilities, dorms, cafeterias for athletes, equipment, etc... College football is an arms race, those who have the money and facilities get the best players and coaches.

 

[specialisthusky]

I did not realize you had a new stadium, how long ago was it built?

It's not just about the stadium. Gotta include indoor practice facilities, weight facilities, training facilities, dorms, cafeterias for athletes, equipment, etc... College football is an arms race, those who have the money and facilities get the best players and coaches.

Good to know. I'll ask Shenkman and Burton if they are willing to donate millions.

 

[Fishy]

I did not realize you had a new stadium, how long ago was it built?

It's not just about the stadium. Gotta include indoor practice facilities, weight facilities, training facilities, dorms, cafeterias for athletes, equipment, etc... College football is an arms race, those who have the money and facilities get the best players and coaches.

We built this s--- just to impress you.

We're not running a mom n' pop shop up here.