As Predicted By Anyone With A Brain, The ACC Is NOT Getting A TV Network

[06029]

Oh, he brings up cable ratings on ESPN how cute!

No, we've never attracted eyeballs there..

Rutgers in the NYC Metro:

4 out of the 5 highest rated football games on ESPN.

5 out of the 5 highest rated football games on ESPN2.

Highest rated football games on ESPNU.

So once you're done with talking about the kiddie games of basketball, you can come join the big leagues and discuss football, the sport that matters in this whole conference realignment shindig.

And btw, Pittsburgh got a bump in attendance from FSU and Notre Dame visiting, let's not kid ourselves here. Big name opponents equal good attendance. The same will hold true for us this year.

Do you have any of the ratings numbers to back that up? As is pointed out every time BC ratings are brought up, who were the opponents in those games? Do you think that could have had anything to do with viewers? How about the time slots? A couple (or maybe even most) of those were before the NFL was on Thursday night or ESPNU existed with a second college game and the game was the only game on TV. This is like BC saying it had one of the highest rated non-BCS bowl game a few years back when they played USC. It was the only game on at that time and the opponent was pretty important to the overall rating.

Here are some numbers from last year:
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013...ge-football-tv-ratings-2014-texas-am-missouri

Methodology (minimum of 3 rated games) does lead to some misleading numbers (and explains the Cuse omission) but look way down the list to find Rutgers. 5 rated games with <1mm viewers on average.

Rutgers brought the B1G 1 thing and 1 thing only, demographics and TV sets where they can force some kind of fee or increase for the B1G channel on cable providers and subscribers. The B1G already wins NYC when they air on the big boy networks unless it is head to head with ND and then the market is probably split. Now with a "local" team, they hope to monetize that significantly better than in the past.

I can't wait to see what channel has the RU-IN game and what the ratings are this season. Hell, even the RU-MD numbers will be telling if both are playing for bowl eligibility the last week of the season. It should be on some decent channel but we all know that is MI-OSU that weekend so you know where that game will air. And if WI or NE are playing for the B1G championship game, they are the #2 choice that weekend. That leaves RU on the B1G or the B1G+ channel. I'm sure the NYC ratings will soar because of RU that weekend.

 

[NickyNewark]

No frustration, just what I was hoping was a comical observation. Obviously I'm still reading. It just occurred to me scrolling through that the majority of the posts were from welcome visitors, so I felt the need to actually quantify. Can't help myself. It's a sickness.

Yeah Im the same way ha ha and let myself bet baited every now and then by the same couple of ACC posters but at least their UConn positive for the most part and thats the main thing. As frustrated as I get though at times like you I'm still reading!Btw I went back even further than you and it goes WAY back not just the 20 odd or so posts you pointed out.Lol..

 

[Sea Goat]

Louisville has a larger and more prosperous athletics department than UVA does. They fill up a huge arena for their basketball, much bigger than ours. And their football team leaves ours in the dust at the moment until we can get ours corrected. UVA will have a lot of work to do to compete with Louisville's men's and women's basketball teams and football team effectively. I have no problem defending Louisville athletics.

And months ago I stated on here that outside the top 50 ranking academically, they all run together. They should stop ranking at 50 and put everyon past that into Tier 2. Sure if we added Rice to the ACC it would bump the academics. But I'm not impressed with Rice's basketball team.

The difference in academic quality between a UConn and Louisville is staggering. If you truly believe that after the top 50 "they all run together", I will no longer feel the need to read what the Cavalier has to say. If you really want to separate the wheat from the chaff, then lump the Ivies together with MIT, Chicago and Stanford and be done with it. Then you can start lumping the rest together after the top 11 - a lot more manageable, don't you agree? Hey UVA, welcome to tier 2 with Louisville etc!

 

[billybud]

Who really brings up academics when talking sports?

Those who do better at academics then sports would be a guess.

Louisville is not great at academics...that is true. UConn is pretty good.

UConn would be #9 in the ACC on US New & WR ratings...and FSU, as the #40 Public University, would trail the conference if not for the Cards. I talk more about football then academics, naturally.

 

[Sea Goat]

Who really brings up academics when talking sports?

Those who do better at academics then sports would be a guess.

Louisville is not great at academics...that is true. UConn is pretty good.

UConn would be #9 in the ACC on US New & WR ratings...and FSU, as the #40 Public University, would trail the conference if not for the Cards. I talk more about football then academics, naturally.

Where do you want to take this budster? The original group that started elevating academics over sports was the Ivy League. You'd be surprised to learn; that before the formation of the Ivy League in the early 50s, many of those schools won several national championships, - Yale, Harvard, Cornell all won multiple football championships back in the day. De-emphasizing athletics really hasn't hurt that group though.

UConn doesn't take a back seat to Louisville in sports, if that is where you are going. Cold hard facts - UConn is a better academic institution than any of the recent adds to the ACC and brought more to the table in athletics over the long term. If it was all about media markets, that doesn't sell. If it was about petty jealousies and resentment well we may have a raison d'etre for Gene Defillippo and BC.

Louisville's short term athletic success does not make for a legacy. If anyone knows that, you should. I always understood that the ACC took academics seriously - for years academics helped define the conference. I always admired how a top D-1 conference had succeeded by promoting academics along with athletics. Has the ACC let that slip away to secure some dubious, fleeting advantage in athletics? I guess we'll see.

 

[SouthronCross]

It doesn't get corrected because certain schools demand to play other schools.....And few northern schools want a north-south with Miami and FSU and the southernmost schools together, locking them out of the Florida recruiting market.

The two biggest roadblocks to a N-S split (with Miami in the North) are UVA and VPI. Neither would vote for that, as they'd both be placed in the North Division. UVA doesn't want to be separated from its longtime rivals, and, VPI does not want to mostly be playing its ex-BE rivals. I believe that the rest would go for it, no worries.

As far as "Atlantic Coast being from Maine to Key West"...sure.

Boeheim was famously quoted...."If conference commissioners were the founding fathers of this country, we would have Guatemala, Uruguay and Argentina in the United States."

Boeheim's random comments crack me up, though, not as much as when he came unhinged at Duke.

 

[btstimpy]

The difference in academic quality between a UConn and Louisville is staggering. If you truly believe that after the top 50 "they all run together", I will no longer feel the need to read what the Cavalier has to say. If you really want to separate the wheat from the chaff, then lump the Ivies together with MIT, Chicago and Stanford and be done with it. Then you can start lumping the rest together after the top 11 - a lot more manageable, don't you agree? Hey UVA, welcome to tier 2 with Louisville etc!

I don't see the point of worrying about it past 50. Heck in athletics the polls usually stop at the Top 25. I think I'm being generous cutting it off at 50. We've had this debate a couple of months ago on this board in another thread and posters from other Big Ten schools ranked lower than 50 got angry. They they wanted to debate STEM majors or Medical Programs separated out. Yes there are schools ranked lower than 50 that can pick out a major or two that shines. There is no question.

Are you suggesting cutting it off at 75? If you did, 12 of the ACC's schools are top 75, only 8 in the top 50 - the most of anyone besides the Ivy League. I think 75 is too many.

People wanted to bash Louisville as a commuter school. I pointed out that Ohio State is a commuter school. People got angry about that. Maybe it is best to focus on Louisville's athletics instead of Louiville's academics.

 

[pj]

It's a little thing called the Atlantic Coast. It runs from Maine to Florida. Capturing all the attention of college sports viewers from Bangor, ME to Key West, FL and west to Owensboro, KY with everything in between on the path between the two is the ACC's identity. There is no identity crisis.

Fixed it for you.

 

[btstimpy]

Fixed it for you.

Well to be accurate it would be Chicago, Il, But we're not supposed to be taking that path. If the ACC adds Cincinnati it sure would look like it though.

 

[Fishy]

I don't see the point of worrying about it past 50. Heck in athletics the polls usually stop at the Top 25. I think I'm being generous cutting it off at 50. We've had this debate a couple of months ago on this board in another thread and posters from other Big Ten schools ranked lower than 50 got angry. They they wanted to debate STEM majors or Medical Programs separated out. Yes there are schools ranked lower than 50 that can pick out a major or two that shines. There is no question.

Are you suggesting cutting it off at 75? If you did, 12 of the ACC's schools are top 75, only 8 in the top 50 - the most of anyone besides the Ivy League. I think 75 is too many.

People wanted to bash Louisville as a commuter school. I pointed out that Ohio State is a commuter school. People got angry about that. Maybe it is best to focus on Louisville's athletics instead of Louiville's academics.

This is more of your self-soothing.

You have to focus on UL's athletics because they're West Virginia academically. Any comparison with Ohio State is ridiculous.

 

[Fishy]

Who really brings up academics when talking sports?

ACC fans.

Constantly.

 

[SAMCRO]

Who really brings up academics when talking sports?

That's all you heard form Swofford, ACC AD/Prez's, etc... During the initial and second raid of the BE. The phrase "like minded institutions" and the importance of having schools committed to academic excellence as members of the league were the talking points being spewed. That was the rationale provided by many as to why WVU was not selected over SyraPitt. What has evolved since then is UNC's suspect no show classes for athletes, and the open arms for UL. Had the ACC brass not been on their academic high horse the last few years, people wouldn't have scratched their heads at the UL selection.

 

[btstimpy]

This is more of your self-soothing.

You have to focus on UL's athletics because they're West Virginia academically. Any comparison with Ohio State is ridiculous.

I'm not soothing anything. I'm not impressed with Ohio State academically. I'm not impressed with Louisville academically either. They run together to me. There is a slight difference, 64% acceptance rate vs 76%. You might see a big difference. I don't. It's not a linear curve.

I'm impressed with Michigan. 36% acceptance rate. That's good for a public school. I get that Louisville isn't an academic powerhouse. But again if you can't even show up in the top 50, what difference does it make? Heck if you go to the USN&WR website, they only put 50 on a page.

 

[Fishy]

You're a blindingly simple human being if you're judging those two schools purely on acceptance rate.

You're wasting our bandwidth.

 

[dayooper]

I'm not soothing anything. I'm not impressed with Ohio State academically. I'm not impressed with Louisville academically either. They run together to me. There is a slight difference, 64% acceptance rate vs 76%. You might see a big difference. I don't. It's not a linear curve.

Really, you are not impressed with a top 100 world wide institution?

In international rankings (such as the QS and ARWU), OSU ranks ahead of UVa by metrics based on awards won by alumni, faculty, papers and research published, ext. UVa ranks higher on Forbes and USNRW, where they look at incoming scores, class ranks, and overall satisfaction.

I'm not bashing UVa in any way. It is a very good school (top 50 in my book) that is one of the best in the world. So is OSU.

 

[Fishy]

Virginia accepts about 30% of its applicants. So does San Diego State....

So they're the same.

 

[btstimpy]

That's all you heard form Swofford, ACC AD/Prez's, etc... During the initial and second raid of the BE. The phrase "like minded institutions" and the importance of having schools committed to academic excellence as members of the league were the talking points being spewed. That was the rationale provided by many as to why WVU was not selected over SyraPitt. What has evolved since then is UNC's suspect no show classes for athletes, and the open arms for UL. Had the ACC brass not been on their academic high horse the last few years, people wouldn't have scratched their heads at the UL selection.

The ACC does focus on academics. The ACC and the Ivy League are the only athletic conferences with 8 or more schools in the top 50 academically. The school the ACC lost was way down the list academically, and it was replaced by another one also way down the list academically. The brass wanted someone this time to beef up football and basketball. They added the Sugar Bowl Champion and the NCAA men's basketball champion. Seems like a good cut of beef to me. Maybe next time it will be an academic focus and Vanderbilt will grow tired of being the only token academic school in its league in the Top 50. Florida is close to top 50. I'm not sure they've cracked it though. Or maybe Pennsylvania will come out of its shell and beef up athletics and football. UVA played many games at Franklin Field at one time. Lost all but 1. It would be novel to do it again only this time winning more.

 

[dayooper]

The ACC does focus on academics. The ACC and the Ivy League are the only athletic conferences with 8 or more schools in the top 50 academically. The school the ACC lost was way down the list academically, and it was replaced by another one also way down the list academically. The brass wanted someone this time to beef up football and basketball. They added the Sugar Bowl Champion and the NCAA men's basketball champion. Seems like a good cut of beef to me. Maybe next time it will be an academic focus and Vanderbilt will grow tired of being the only token academic school in its league in the Top 50. Florida is close to top 50. I'm not sure they've cracked it though. Or maybe Pennsylvania will come out of its shell and beef up athletics and football. UVA played many games at Franklin Field at one time. Lost all but 1. It would be novel to do it again only this time winning more.

Again, it comes down to the metrics on how you judge them. In general, ACC schools do better in undergrad rankings while Big 10 schools do better in grad and research.

 

[Fishy]

Maryland and Louisville aren't in the same orbit academically.

UL is Mississippi State on a good day. West Virginia every other day.

Maryland is Syracuse/Pitt.

More self-soothing.

 

[btstimpy]

Virginia accepts about 30% of its applicants. So does San Diego State....

So they're the same.

California schools are rising up the charts fast. 20 years ago UVA was ahead of all of them with UC-Berkley right about where we are. Now UC-Berkley is ahead of UVA. We have USC and UCLA right with us. UC-Davis and UC-San Diego have cracked the top 40. If San Diego state can continue to be as selective as it has been lately, we'll watch them rise right up the chart like the others.

 

[SAMCRO]

The ACC does focus on academics. The ACC and the Ivy League are the only athletic conferences with 8 or more schools in the top 50 academically. The school the ACC lost was way down the list academically, and it was replaced by another one also way down the list academically. The brass wanted someone this time to beef up football and basketball. They added the Sugar Bowl Champion and the NCAA men's basketball champion. Seems like a good cut of beef to me. Maybe next time it will be an academic focus and Vanderbilt will grow tired of being the only token academic school in its league in the Top 50. Florida is close to top 50. I'm not sure they've cracked it though. Or maybe Pennsylvania will come out of its shell and beef up athletics and football. UVA played many games at Franklin Field at one time. Lost all but 1. It would be novel to do it again only this time winning more.

Wrong. The ACC - the athletic conference - doesn't care. Selecting UL was a clear and indisputable action that the ACC doesn't give a about maintaining a conference of "like minded institutions" Some schools within the ACC care (Duke, BC, UVa, GT, WF), but the ACC does not care.

 

[Pat125]

I don't get too hooked on academic rankings. There are so many, and of course, they don't quite match up. I just googled a couple, and both had Maryland, Rutgers, and Ohio St. ranked higher than Virginia. No, I don't actually believe that. But it does show that determining comparisons of academics based on one ranking system is faulty at best. In my opinion, I don't think Louisville's academic quality is as bad as most make it out to be, but still well behind, for example, Ohio St.

 

[btstimpy]

Again, it comes down to the metrics on how you judge them. In general, ACC schools do better in undergrad rankings while Big 10 schools do better in grad and research.

I don't agree with that. Some of the best Medical, Law, Business, and Engineering schools in the US are in the ACC. I'd probably say more than in the Big Ten without doing the research on each one. They are each ranked individually. The only thing I'd agree with is the Big Ten schools tend to be much larger than ACC schools in terms of enrollment.

However, when the ACC is talking about athletic and academic excellence, it is talking about student athletes. We are not filling up our Medical, Law, Business, and PhD programs with student athletes. They are 95+% undergraduate student athletes. So this Graduate program comparison is another "What difference does it make?" regarding this discussion about the athletic conference.

Every time this comes up I get people questioning USN&WR as the metric and wanting the leave the sphere of the student athlete to worry about graduate research or a specialized field. It's off on a tangent.

 

[btstimpy]

I don't get too hooked on academic rankings. There are so many, and of course, they don't quite match up. I just googled a couple, and both had Maryland, Rutgers, and Ohio St. ranked higher than Virginia. No, I don't actually believe that. But it does show that determining comparisons of academics based on one ranking system is faulty at best. In my opinion, I don't think Louisville's academic quality is as bad as most make it out to be, but still well behind, for example, Ohio St.

I get hooked on 2 rankings. USN&WR Best National Universities, and Leerfield Sports Director's Cup. As long as UVA does well in both of these, I'm happy. And I don't look past 50 in either much. UVA is pretty well topped out in the USN&WR because the state legislature has mandated that only 35% of the enrollment can be out of state. If the legislature eliminated that restriction, UVA could go up the chart higher. They are doing well to maintain where they are with that restriction. As for Director's Cup the sky is the limit, but this football team needs a serious overhaul. Many of the other sports are doing well.

 

[Pat125]

I get hooked on 2 rankings. USN&WR Best National Universities, and Leerfield Sports Director's Cup. As long as UVA does well in both of these, I'm happy. And I don't look past 50 in either much. UVA is pretty well topped out in the USN&WR because the state legislature has mandated that only 35% of the enrollment can be out of state. If the legislature eliminated that restriction, UVA could go up the chart higher. They are doing well to maintain where they are with that restriction. As for Director's Cup the sky is the limit, but this football team needs a serious overhaul. Many of the other sports are doing well.

My point is that relying on one ranking is an arbitrary indicator of academic quality.

 

[dayooper]

I don't agree with that. Some of the best Medical, Law, Business, and Engineering schools in the US are in the ACC. I'd probably say more than in the Big Ten without doing the research on each one. They are each ranked individually. The only thing I'd agree with is the Big Ten schools tend to be much larger than ACC schools in terms of enrollment.

However, when the ACC is talking about athletic and academic excellence, it is talking about student athletes. We are not filling up our Medical, Law, Business, and PhD programs with student athletes. They are 95+% undergraduate student athletes. So this Graduate program comparison is another "What difference does it make?" regarding this discussion about the athletic conference.

Every time this comes up I get people questioning USN&WR as the metric and wanting the leave the sphere of the student athlete to worry about graduate research or a specialized field. It's off on a tangent.

It's not an off tangent when like minded schools are in question. The ACC went back on everything they said they were when they admitted Louisville. Southern School, Eastern Seaboard School, Academic Orientated School. They broke what they said they were about. I don't have a problem with that, but to say it's no big deal is not correct. It was a move to keep the conference together by appeasing FSU and Clemson. Louisville is an outlier in every way possible. Outliers are not good for cohesion with in the group. Ask WVU and the Big12 or the members of the old Big East. There has to be something more than sports that keeps the schools connected. Louisville and The ACC need to find that connection.

As far as academic rankings go, both leagues have great schools. If you marginalize Michigan, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois, Purdue, Minnesota, PSU, and OSU as elite or just under, you are showing an East Coast arrogance and will never see past locale. I'm fine with that, and I am sure you are as well.

 

[buddy]

The ACC sold their soul when they took ND as a partial member and Louisville under any pretense.

 

[upstater]

I get hooked on 2 rankings. USN&WR Best National Universities, and Leerfield Sports Director's Cup. As long as UVA does well in both of these, I'm happy. And I don't look past 50 in either much. UVA is pretty well topped out in the USN&WR because the state legislature has mandated that only 35% of the enrollment can be out of state. If the legislature eliminated that restriction, UVA could go up the chart higher. They are doing well to maintain where they are with that restriction. As for Director's Cup the sky is the limit, but this football team needs a serious overhaul. Many of the other sports are doing well.

There are AAU schools very low in the US rankings while some low resource schools are ranked very high. If you're really taking those rankings as gospel, you are surely missing a lot. Even on their small college roster, they used to drop a place like Reed College into the third tier while jacking colleges that were nearly unaccredited into the first.

 

[btstimpy]

There are AAU schools very low in the US rankings while some low resource schools are ranked very high. If you're really taking those rankings as gospel, you are surely missing a lot. Even on their small college roster, they used to drop a place like Reed College into the third tier while jacking colleges that were nearly unaccredited into the first.

I'm not missing much of anything. I'm not focused on graduate research. It doesn't benefit the student athletes at all, and it doesn't benefit that many of the students in general. The faculty might get their jollies about it, and that's about it. AAU just happens to be a fetish of the Big Ten Conference. 99% of the posters focused on conference realignment have no idea what its about, and only 2% have probably benefited from it. Yes UVA is a member of the AAU. It joined in 1904. Was sponsored by Pennsylvania and Harvard. But Dartmouth, Notre Dame, Georgetown, and Wake Forest are all top 25 academically ranked schools not AAU.

This will get us back to SUNY-Buffalo to the Big Ten idea. With this AAU fetish, it is not out of the realm of possibility for them to look there. They would get AAU, but not an academic gem. Athletically SUNY-Buffalo might be able to put their mind to it and compete. But for Football they will be fighting the same demographic challenges as the rest of the Big Ten and doing it with no tradition or history in football. UCF and USF will have easier paths ahead of them for football. Can they become AAU? Depends on the cross pollination of the faculty with AAU schools and the politics. The University of Florida is in it. Will they help them? Who knows. But it won't help the football teams.

 

[upstater]

I'm not missing much of anything. I'm not focused on graduate research. It doesn't benefit the student athletes at all, and it doesn't benefit that many of the students in general. The faculty might get their jollies about it, and that's about it. AAU just happens to be a fetish of the Big Ten Conference. 99% of the posters focused on conference realignment have no idea what its about, and only 2% have probably benefited from it. Yes UVA is a member of the AAU. It joined in 1904. Was sponsored by Pennsylvania and Harvard. But Dartmouth, Notre Dame, Georgetown, and Wake Forest are all top 25 academically ranked schools not AAU.

This will get us back to SUNY-Buffalo to the Big Ten idea. With this AAU fetish, it is not out of the realm of possibility for them to look there. They would get AAU, but not an academic gem. Athletically SUNY-Buffalo might be able to put their mind to it and compete. But for Football they will be fighting the same demographic challenges as the rest of the Big Ten and doing it with no tradition or history in football. UCF and USF will have easier paths ahead of them for football. Can they become AAU? Depends on the cross pollination of the faculty with AAU schools and the politics. The University of Florida is in it. Will they help them? Who knows. But it won't help the football teams.

You can dismiss it all you want but the fact is, when you give lower resources to faculty, it stretches thin. Academic reputation is largely based on how much money a school commits to the teaching of students. USNews takes a very warped view of this. There are 4-3 load schools that are ahead of many well respected 2-2 load schools, which is a total distortion of what actually happens in the classroom, and what kind of research is being conducted. That's why I brought up AAU. I didn't bring it u to discuss the B1G nor UB etc.

Then there are the wacky small school anomalies, like Reed in the 3rd tier. Holy Cross and Richmond ahead of them, not to mention Colorado Coll., Kenyon,, etc.