As Predicted By Anyone With A Brain, The ACC Is NOT Getting A TV Network

[billybud]

The ACC is a conference that has had growing pains and an identity crisis.

When FSU joined the ACC, it was a southern-mid Atlantic league. As the ACC grew and added Boston College & Syracuse in a northeastern move, it created some cognitive dissonance for the deep south schools of Clemson and FSU.

Having Clemson and FSU traveling to Boston and Syracuse while having GT (their relative next door neighbor) in another division made little sense for the fans. Playing GT once every six years (and at GT once in twelve) is a sore point for the Seminoles largest out of state alumni base in Atlanta.

And Clemson is an hour down the road.

 

[Sea Goat]

You are 100 percent correct. The ACC not taking UConn was a huge missed opportunity. Swofford was ready to invite them.

UConn was originally supposed to be paired with Syracuse, not Pitt, to join the ACC. UConn is a perfect match...academically, and, with a strong Olympic sports program. I believe they have untapped potential for football. They've done pretty well whenever they've faced ACC opponents in the past. Plus, they'd give BC a natural regional rival that the league could build upon.

But, FSU and Clemson led a group that refused to vote for them. The four NC schools, UVA, and, Maryland (IIRC), were all in their corner.

As I've said before, I am an optimist, and, I still hold out hope that they will get in. Maybe it is that optimistic side that believes the ACC bowed to pressure from FSU, Clemson, etc, to take Louisville this time around, in exchange for selecting UConn when/if the league goes to 16.

Its of little consolation to our hosts here, but, thats just my take.

Appreciate the sentiment, but I really hope UConn ends up in the B1G - here's why. No question the ACC was initially a better fit than the B1G for UConn. UConn has much simpatico with the excellent public institutions that are the backbone of the ACC. But the ACC lost its way and I hope UConn does not become part of it. First, the addition of BC really hasn't done anything for the ACC and Defillipo crowed about how he was able to keep UConn out in 2011. How could a newbie, underachiever in a historic conference be allowed to sway any one's opinion? Second, if the ACC was serious about improving its NE footprint, it would have recognized that UConn was a much better add than Pitt or Syra.... Third, the Louisville add is the clincher. The ACC sold its soul for some perceived short term athletic benefit and added a school that is woefully deficient in the academic sphere. Having said that, obviously UConn would jump to the ACC in a heart beat to escape Dante Aresco's "Inferno", but here's hoping the B1G calls first.

 

[btstimpy]

I think the ACC made excellent choices when they added Florida St, Virginia Tech, and Miami. I forgot to add that I was surprised by their next choice. I actually thought that WV would have been a good choice geographically, and there would have been a natural pairing of rivals. But I understand the idea of expanding to different markets and pushing up the northeast. It just seems that UConn or Rutgers would have been a much better choice.

I agree on UConn and perhaps WVU. WVU needs a little work though. But keep in mind that the two Syracuse vs Duke men's basketball games this season are two of the top 5 most watched men's college basketball games in the history of any ESPN property. Syracuse has spent most of this season at Number 1 in the AP poll. And Syracuse defeated Minnesota in their bowl game this season. Syracuse is a great lacrosse addition. New York's College team has been a positive addition. Pittsburgh won their bowl game as well. Their basketball team will finish in the top 6 of the league. Wresting won the league. I think Pitt will be fine.

You mention Rutgers, and several here have previously. I don't think Rutgers has been to a NCAA men's basketball tournament in over 40 years. They don't look like a threat to get there any time soon. Rutgers has won 1 NCAA championship in its history in the 1940s. They have been to a hand full of minor bowls in the past decade while playing a Big East schedule. I'm not sure they have dominated the Big East or AAC in any sport ever. What is your attraction? You are not the only one as I've said. I've heard it here before. But I don't see them ahead of any other school that the ACC has invited.

 

[btstimpy]

The ACC is a conference that has had growing pains and an identity crisis.

When FSU joined the ACC, it was a southern-mid Atlantic league. As the ACC grew and added Boston College & Syracuse in a northeastern move, it created some cognitive dissonance for the deep south schools of Clemson and FSU.

Having Clemson and FSU traveling to Boston and Syracuse while having GT (their relative next door neighbor) in another division made little sense for the fans. Playing GT once every six years (and at GT once in twelve) is a sore point for the Seminoles largest out of state alumni base in Atlanta.

And Clemson is an hour down the road.

It's a little thing called the Atlantic Coast. It runs from Maine to Florida. Capturing all the attention of college sports viewers from Bangor, ME to Key West, FL with everything in between on the path between the two is the ACC's identity. There is no identity crisis.

Yes the league's origin is the remnants of the old Southern Conference east of the Appalachian Mountains, but segregation ended in the 1960s, and we can actually unite with northern schools to truly form an Atlantic Coast Conference now. I personally like it.

I hear your complaint about not playing Georgia Tech more, and FSU people complain about that all the time. I don't know why it doesn't get corrected when divisions get discussed in each of these conference meetings. Perhaps Georgia Tech likes what it's doing. I don't know.

 

[NickyNewark]

I agree on UConn and perhaps WVU. WVU needs a little work though. But keep in mind that the two Syracuse vs Duke men's basketball games this season are two of the top 5 most watched men's college basketball games in the history of any ESPN property. Syracuse has spent most of this season at Number 1 in the AP poll. And Syracuse defeated Minnesota in their bowl game this season. Syracuse is a great lacrosse addition. New York's College team has been a positive addition. Pittsburgh won their bowl game as well. Their basketball team will finish in the top 6 of the league. Wresting won the league. I think Pitt will be fine.

You mention Rutgers, and several here have previously. I don't think Rutgers has been to a NCAA men's basketball tournament in over 40 years. They don't look like a threat to get there any time soon. Rutgers has won 1 NCAA championship in its history in the 1940s. They have been to a hand full of minor bowls in the past decade while playing a Big East schedule. I'm not sure they have dominated the Big East or AAC in any sport ever. What is your attraction? You are not the only one as I've said. I've heard it here before. But I don't see them ahead of any other school that the ACC has invited.

Maybe you should ask Delany stimp?Or the B1G's consulting firm that said outside ND RU would be the best add. I've seen this whole subject rehashed on FTT's blog on CR from "10"-"13" and most of you're questions were asked and answered there but like I've said b4 this is not the proper place for this old argument about your distaste for RU.....40yrs? RU kidding?

 

[NickyNewark]

It's a little thing called the Atlantic Coast. It runs from Maine to Florida. Capturing all the attention of college sports viewers from Bangor, ME to Key West, FL with everything in between on the path between the two is the ACC's identity. There is no identity crisis.

Yes the league's origin is the remnants of the old Southern Conference east of the Appalachian Mountains, but segregation ended in the 1960s, and we can actually unite with northern schools to truly form an Atlantic Coast Conference now. I personally like it.

I hear your complaint about not playing Georgia Tech more, and FSU people complain about that all the time. I don't know why it doesn't get corrected when divisions get discussed in each of these conference meetings. Perhaps Georgia Tech likes what it's doing. I don't know.

Exactly the eastern Atlantic megalopolis that instead of BC/SU..UConn and RU would have locked down forever ensuring the ACC stability for the next 100 years instead of outliers up near the Canadian fringes of the NE....heck BC cant even get Boston interested in the dying privates!!

 

[btstimpy]

Maybe you should ask Delany stimp?Or the B1G's consulting firm that said outside ND RU would be the beat add.I seen this whole subject rehashed on FTT's blog on CR from "10"-"13" and most of you're questions were asked and answered there but like I've said b4 this is not the proper place for this old argument about your distaste for RU.....40yrs? RU kidding?

I sure will ask Jim Delany in 5 years if he's happy, but others will get there first to ask him. You can count on that. In the mean time as he's now saying he needs a whole lot of elbow grease.

 

[NickyNewark]

You do realize JoPa(and Glen Mason+others) was trying to get RU/and maybe an SU into the B1G since they considered joining since forced to join the BiG and PSU and RU tried to form an all eastern conference for the big schools instead of the mess than you inherited(BE2) but SU seemed to put there hoop's ahead of the wagon and helped create what never should have been(mishmosh of schools with differing agendas and sizes)!! RU hoops was top notch in the 70s(except for the C.Littlepage fiasco in mid 80s) into the 90s and turned down 2 invites to the BE staying loyal to PSU. How smart does that vision of an all-eastern Alliance or league look now?

 

[BCINGYA]

Exactly the eastern Atlantic megalopolis that instead of BC/SU..UConn and RU would have locked down forever ensuring the ACC stability for the next 100 years instead of outliers up near the Canadian fringes of the NE....heck BC cant even get Boston interested in the dying privates!!

You should choose your battles wisely my friend...Trying to defend Rutgers by slamming fellow North East schools is lame. It does not change a thing, nor does it boost your argument in any meaningful way. That statement only exposes (for me) your true feelings towards Cuse and B.C. which is fine, but Rutgers is not in any way superior to ANY other N.E schools. Save the caddy bullsh@#.

 

[billybud]

It's a little thing called the Atlantic Coast. It runs from Maine to Florida. Capturing all the attention of college sports viewers from Bangor, ME to Key West, FL with everything in between on the path between the two is the ACC's identity. There is no identity crisis.

Yes the league's origin is the remnants of the old Southern Conference east of the Appalachian Mountains, but segregation ended in the 1960s, and we can actually unite with northern schools to truly form an Atlantic Coast Conference now. I personally like it.

I hear your complaint about not playing Georgia Tech more, and FSU people complain about that all the time. I don't know why it doesn't get corrected when divisions get discussed in each of these conference meetings. Perhaps Georgia Tech likes what it's doing. I don't know.

It doesn't get corrected because certain schools demand to play other schools.....And few northern schools want a north-south with Miami and FSU and the southernmost schools together, locking them out of the Florida recruiting market.

As far as "Atlantic Coast being from Maine to Key West"...sure.

Boeheim was famously quoted...."If conference commissioners were the founding fathers of this country, we would have Guatemala, Uruguay and Argentina in the United States."

 

[NickyNewark]

You should choose your battles wisely my friend...Trying to defend Rutgers by slamming fellow North East schools is lame. It does not change a thing, nor does it boost your argument in any meaningful way. That statement only exposes (for me) your true feelings towards Cuse and B.C. which is fine, but Rutgers is not in any way superior to ANY other N.E schools. Save the caddy bullsh@#.

Sorry BCINGYA(you know me) but this is more a personal thing between Stimp and I. Like I've said b4 I HATE slamming any school but Stimp seems to take great pleasure in knocking RU pointedly at every opportunity no matter how much I try to evade this "thing" with him??

 

[NickyNewark]

You should choose your battles wisely my friend...Trying to defend Rutgers by slamming fellow North East schools is lame. It does not change a thing, nor does it boost your argument in any meaningful way. That statement only exposes (for me) your true feelings towards Cuse and B.C. which is fine, but Rutgers is not in any way superior to ANY other N.E schools. Save the caddy bullsh@#.

Nor is BC superior but many of there small fanbase act that way(similar to SU and stimpCuse). I say that because I seen him for years schmoozing there as a member of there #1 site. I have no similar issue with you and have even defended you here.Our schools are what they are and unless pushed(like Stimpycuse does I'll say nothing) and theres nothing wrong with that.The trouble with Boston is its in Boston and if you're a fan your more likely to follow the Irish than BC so that leaves very little for anyone else non-alum for the catholic oriented fan. Good academics and hockey though.

 

[btstimpy]

Sorry BCINGYA(you know me) but this is more a personal thing between Stimp and I. Like I've said b4 I HATE slamming any school but Stimp seems to take great pleasure in knocking RU pointedly at every opportunity no matter how much I try to evade this "thing" with him??

I don't get any pleasure in knocking Rutgers. I just take issue with the belief by some that the ACC really missed out or made a mistake by taking Boston College, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh ahead of Rutgers. I simply don't believe that on any level whatsoever: athletically, academically, fan support, or television market.

 

[NickyNewark]

I don't get any pleasure in knocking Rutgers. I just take issue with the belief by some that the ACC really missed out or made a mistake by taking Boston College, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh ahead of Rutgers. I simply don't believe that on any level whatsoever: athletically, academically, fan support, or television market.

Your feelings here are well known but you insistence on repetitiveness is only now coming to light stimp!! I thought we were gonna lighten up on the bashing? God knows I've given you every benefit of the doubt. I try not to even(unless relevant) bring it up.No credit for the Lax win over #20 ranked Army?But any body say they like the B1G add of RU you jump on?What would you think if it was Va? Hey I can see a UPitt ahead of RU but a small private? Ask a big Chicago or NYC consulting firm and hear the laughter.Temple...really.I wont even elaborate on the others but anyone over a UConn/RU to lock down or enrich a conference on the eastern seaboard to anybody above MD is lunacy IMO.

 

[NickyNewark]

I don't get any pleasure in knocking Rutgers. I just take issue with the belief by some that the ACC really missed out or made a mistake by taking Boston College, Syracuse, and Pittsburgh ahead of Rutgers. I simply don't believe that on any level whatsoever: athletically, academically, fan support, or television market.

Don't give it another though stimp everyones entitled to there opinion but as you know it pushes my buttons from someone whose made it known to see the "groundhog day" effect here. No biggie. But lets consider our hosts.

 

[JayRU09]

Rutgers and UCONN were there, right for the taking, to gobble up NYC as best as any conference could. UCONN would help basketball and RU would have the access to eyeballs and most likely be a solid football member of the conference.

ACC went with Syracuse and Pitt in a 'we want the #2 school in PA and a small private school in southern Canada' move that was clearly basketball first with no look towards the future and what actually drives college sports.

Sure, Syracuse is good now in basketball and brings in some good ratings, but what happens once Jim Boeheim leaves? How many recruits go to Syracuse for him and try to just survive being in the snowiest city in the country? Pitt doesn't even have its own football stadium for cripes sake.

 

[SubbaBub]

Rutgers and UCONN were there, right for the taking, to gobble up NYC as best as any conference could. UCONN would help basketball and RU would have the access to eyeballs and most likely be a solid football member of the conference.

ACC went with Syracuse and Pitt in a 'we want the #2 school in PA and a small private school in southern Canada' move that was clearly basketball first with no look towards the future and what actually drives college sports.

Sure, Syracuse is good now in basketball and brings in some good ratings, but what happens once Jim Boeheim leaves? How many recruits go to Syracuse for him and try to just survive being in the snowiest city in the country? Pitt doesn't even have its own football stadium for cripes sake.

I always thought Syracuse was French for Southern Canada.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Appreciate the sentiment, but I really hope UConn ends up in the B1G - here's why. No question the ACC was initially a better fit than the B1G for UConn. UConn has much simpatico with the excellent public institutions that are the backbone of the ACC. But the ACC lost its way and I hope UConn does not become part of it. First, the addition of BC really hasn't done anything for the ACC and Defillipo crowed about how he was able to keep UConn out in 2011. How could a newbie, underachiever in a historic conference be allowed to sway any one's opinion? Second, if the ACC was serious about improving its NE footprint, it would have recognized that UConn was a much better add than Pitt or Syra.... Third, the Louisville add is the clincher. The ACC sold its soul for some perceived short term athletic benefit and added a school that is woefully deficient in the academic sphere. Having said that, obviously UConn would jump to the ACC in a heart beat to escape Dante Aresco's "Inferno", but here's hoping the B1G calls first.

BCU had influence at the first add because BCU with Flipper was one of the 4 on the ACC expansion committee before they added Pitt/SU. The other school on that committee was Miami. Miami, being a private school, always wanted to add more private schools to the conference. This is why Miami pushed for BCU and CUSE initially. They wanted more private schools. Since BE sued Miami and Donna Shalalalala after the initial defection, there was much venom towards UCONN and the BE. It wasn't hard for BCU to convince Miami to go along with their anti-UCONN stance during the Pitt/SU expansion.

I believe this mistake will haunt the ACC for a long time. ACC would have been much better off taking RU/UCONN/WVU as many have stated. Pitt and SU are not more valuable. Flagship state universities are always more valuable. I don't even want to discuss UL since that's a total desperation move. I still can't believe schools like UNC/UVA/Duke gave in to FSU on the UL add. Unlike B1G, ACC is no longer an elite academic conference with this UL add. OSU's Gordon Gee stated very clearly that there is no way a conference like the B1G would allow a second-rated commuter school like UL into the conference. If ACC did not care about academics, ACC should have gone after WVU. WVU to me is also way more valuable than UL.

Conference expansion is like a long term marriage, not what you done for me today type of approach. ACC, in its desperation, made huge mistakes by adding SU/Pitt/UL over UCONN/RU/WVU.

UCONN's profile fits much better with B1G than the ACC. ACC is now a conference with couple top flagship schools, bunch of privates, and UL. I can understand why ND would be happy here. I am just not sure about rest of the ACC schools if they have other choices. In the B1G, UCONN would be with its peers and that's the place UCONN should try to get into if there is a choice.

 

[btstimpy]

It doesn't get corrected because certain schools demand to play other schools.....And few northern schools want a north-south with Miami and FSU and the southernmost schools together, locking them out of the Florida recruiting market.

As far as "Atlantic Coast being from Maine to Key West"...sure.

Boeheim was famously quoted...."If conference commissioners were the founding fathers of this country, we would have Guatemala, Uruguay and Argentina in the United States."

I'm pretty sure that Miami wants to be in the North for recruiting of students, at least they used to want that. Most of Miami's students come from the northeast. That's why they wanted Syracuse and Boston College to join the ACC when they did to keep presence in the northeast. We could flip Georgia Tech with Louisville and solve this issue, but I'm not sure Georgia Tech wants to give up playing the teams in the Coastal.

 

[btstimpy]

BCU had influence at the first add because BCU with Flipper was one of the 4 on the ACC expansion committee before they added Pitt/SU. The other school on that committee was Miami. Miami, being a private school, always wanted to add more private schools to the conference. This is why Miami pushed for BCU and CUSE initially. They wanted more private schools. Since BE sued Miami and Donna Shalalalala after the initial defection, there was much venom towards UCONN and the BE. It wasn't hard for BCU to convince Miami to go along with their anti-UCONN stance during the Pitt/SU expansion.

I believe this mistake will haunt the ACC for a long time. ACC would have been much better off taking RU/UCONN/WVU as many have stated. Pitt and SU are not more valuable. Flagship state universities are always more valuable. I don't even want to discuss UL since that's a total desperation move. I still can't believe schools like UNC/UVA/Duke gave in to FSU on the UL add. Unlike B1G, ACC is no longer an elite academic conference with this UL add. OSU's Gordon Gee stated very clearly that there is no way a conference like the B1G would allow a second-rated commuter school like UL into the conference. If ACC did not care about academics, ACC should have gone after WVU. WVU to me is also way more valuable than UL.

Conference expansion is like a long term marriage, not what you done for me today type of approach. ACC, in its desperation, made huge mistakes by adding SU/Pitt/UL over UCONN/RU/WVU.

UCONN's profile fits much better with B1G than the ACC. ACC is now a conference with couple top flagship schools, bunch of privates, and UL. I can understand why ND would be happy here. I am just not sure about rest of the ACC schools if they have other choices. In the B1G, UCONN would be with its peers and that's the place UCONN should try to get into if there is a choice.

I have to laugh when you bring up E. Gordon Gee. He just took over at West Virginia University last week. They are rated worse than Louisville academically. The irony is hilarious. Maybe this is his shot at helping them learn to read and write. LOL.

You think Louisville was a desperation move by the ACC. I know Rutgers and Maryland was a desperation move by the Big Ten. Two financially challenged athletic departments grabbed life rafts. We'll have to see how it all works out in the long run.

 

[JayRU09]

........how was RU and UMD a desperation move by the Big Ten? The richest conference grabbing two members based on eyeballs and potential screams more 'sound long term investment' than 'desperation strategy'.

 

[btstimpy]

...how was RU and UMD a desperation move by the Big Ten? The richest conference grabbing two members based on eyeballs and potential screams more 'sound long term investment' than 'desperation strategy'.

Jim Delaney has said it. They felt threatened when the ACC added Pitt, Syracuse, and then Notre Dame. They know that the country's demographics are growing slowest in the midwest, and they were concerned about losing Penn State long term. They didn't grab based on any eyeballs. Not that many eyeballs look at those two new members. You can tell that based on attendance. They grabbed based on cable subscribers in those states. We'll have to see how that works out.

 

[JayRU09]

'You can tell based on attendance'

'ACC grabs Pitt and Syracuse'

Keep going, this is funny.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

I have to laugh when you bring up E. Gordon Gee. He just took over at West Virginia University last week. They are rated worse than Louisville academically. The irony is hilarious. Maybe this is his shot at helping them learn to read and write. LOL.

You think Louisville was a desperation move by the ACC. I know Rutgers and Maryland was a desperation move by the Big Ten. Two financially challenged athletic departments grabbed life rafts. We'll have to see how it all works out in the long run.

It is laughable that you think UL is a good add. They only pimped up their revenue last few years. Their revenue is mostly based on completely ripping off city of UL with their YUM center. Also, they are in a tiny TV market in the middle of the Kentucky.

Maryland and RU are both in much bigger TV markets with way bigger potentials. In addition, both are light years ahead of UL in terms of academics.

 

[JayRU09]

lol is he really calling WVU worse than Louisville academically?

Cause oh man, going #161 to #170 means so much!

What happens when Syracuse becomes bad at basketball? What is their worth to a conference? Same thing with Louisville?

You're left with a small unattractive private school and a terrible academic school.

If RU and UMD are bad, guess what? Still huge schools that are top notch academically and do loads of research.

 

[Sea Goat]

I have to laugh when you bring up E. Gordon Gee. He just took over at West Virginia University last week. They are rated worse than Louisville academically. The irony is hilarious. Maybe this is his shot at helping them learn to read and write. LOL.

You think Louisville was a desperation move by the ACC. I know Rutgers and Maryland was a desperation move by the Big Ten. Two financially challenged athletic departments grabbed life rafts. We'll have to see how it all works out in the long run.

Stimpmeister - don't die on a beach defending; in any way, shape or form, the ACC's adding Louisville. It is really beneath a Cavalier to do so.

 

[btstimpy]

'You can tell based on attendance'

'ACC grabs Pitt and Syracuse'

Keep going, this is funny.

Yes as in Maryland has a 18,000 seat arena that had only 9000 there last night. Rutgers draws about 4000 to theirs.
In football, Maryland averages about 20,000 vacant seats per game.

http://www.pressboxonline.com/2013/11/26/terps-home-football-attendance-is-low-for-big-ten

Rutgers averaged 46,000 in 2013, which is better than Maryland and right in line with Pittsburgh.
And with 2 of the top 5 highest nielson ratings for college basketball games ever on an ESPN property this season, Syracuse impresses me with eyeballs actually. 35,000 butts in seats for basketball games impresses me too. We only average about 12,000.

Like I said, the Big Ten wasn't after eyeballs. They were after cable boxes.

 

[btstimpy]

Stimpmeister - don't die on a beach defending; in any way, shape or form, the ACC's adding Louisville. It is really beneath a Cavalier to do so.

Louisville has a larger and more prosperous athletics department than UVA does. They fill up a huge arena for their basketball, much bigger than ours. And their football team leaves ours in the dust at the moment until we can get ours corrected. UVA will have a lot of work to do to compete with Louisville's men's and women's basketball teams and football team effectively. I have no problem defending Louisville athletics.

And months ago I stated on here that outside the top 50 ranking academically, they all run together. They should stop ranking at 50 and put everyon past that into Tier 2. Sure if we added Rice to the ACC it would bump the academics. But I'm not impressed with Rice's basketball team.

 

[JayRU09]

Oh, he brings up cable ratings on ESPN how cute!

No, we've never attracted eyeballs there.......

Rutgers in the NYC Metro:

4 out of the 5 highest rated football games on ESPN.

5 out of the 5 highest rated football games on ESPN2.

Highest rated football games on ESPNU.

So once you're done with talking about the kiddie games of basketball, you can come join the big leagues and discuss football, the sport that matters in this whole conference realignment shindig.

And btw, Pittsburgh got a bump in attendance from FSU and Notre Dame visiting, let's not kid ourselves here. Big name opponents equal good attendance. The same will hold true for us this year.

 

[btstimpy]

Oh, he brings up cable ratings on ESPN how cute!

No, we've never attracted eyeballs there..

Rutgers in the NYC Metro:

4 out of the 5 highest rated football games on ESPN.

5 out of the 5 highest rated football games on ESPN2.

Highest rated football games on ESPNU.

So once you're done with talking about the kiddie games of basketball, you can come join the big leagues and discuss football, the sport that matters in this whole conference realignment shindig.

And btw, Pittsburgh got a bump in attendance from FSU and Notre Dame visiting, let's not kid ourselves here. Big name opponents equal good attendance. The same will hold true for us this year.

LOL. College football fans in the NYC metro watch NBC.