As Predicted By Anyone With A Brain, The ACC Is NOT Getting A TV Network

[JayRU09]

'Brings up ratings on ESPN'

'Counters with ESPN ratings'

'LOLOL NO MAN LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT ESPN LET'S TALK ABOUT NBC'

And your beloved Syracuse:

"The Rutgers-Louisville game on ESPN2 had more than twice the viewers in New York City than the Syracuse-West Virginia game on ESPN. Both started at 8 on Friday night. Rutgers-Louisville drew a 1.45 share in New York City compared to 0.7 for West Virginia-Syracuse, according to the Nielsen ratings."

 

[UPitt]

'You can tell based on attendance'

'ACC grabs Pitt and Syracuse'

Keep going, this is funny.

For what it's worth.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2013.pdf

Ville 52514
Pitt 49741
Rutgers 46549
Maryland 41278
Cuse 38277

Not too much difference in numbers here. I really don't think a few thousand fans a game makes a huge difference in revenue.

I assume this is measured attendance, because Pitt sold well over 50K season tickets this past season if you include student ticket sales, due in large part to the home schedule. Also, the attendance numbers reported by Pitt are likely to be inaccurate due to a ticket scanning issue that required tickets to be ripped and counted the old fashion way.

 

[JayRU09]

Let's see what those attendances numbers were before a season with FSU and Notre Dame on the home schedule.

We had about 47k with USF/Cincy/Houston/Norfolk State/Eastern Michigan/Temple/Arkansas (Sell out basically) as our home schedule.

Arkansas, a not so good (some would say terrible) team from the SEC drew a sell out for all intensive purposes. What do people expect to happen when Michigan and PSU come to town?

Like with all things northeast, it's who you're playing and/or how good you are. Pitt's attendance in 2012 was 41K. That's a 8k swing on schedule alone. We're at 46k with a god awful schedule. We were at 49k in 2012 with an even worse schedule but a better team. Northeast football.

 

[Fishy]

Attendance numbers are essentially fantasy numbers.

Schools are putting prettying up the corpse with their reported numbers - there's zero chance there were 50,000 people at the average Pitt game or 47,000 at a Rutgers game.

Sorry, but no.

Anyone see the Pitt-Syracuse game? It was empty, but I bet Syracuse told the world that 35 or 40 thousand people were there.

 

[btstimpy]

'Brings up ratings on ESPN'

'Counters with ESPN ratings'

'LOLOL NO MAN LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT ESPN LET'S TALK ABOUT NBC'

And your beloved Syracuse:

"The Rutgers-Louisville game on ESPN2 had more than twice the viewers in New York City than the Syracuse-West Virginia game on ESPN. Both started at 8 on Friday night. Rutgers-Louisville drew a 1.45 share in New York City compared to 0.7 for West Virginia-Syracuse, according to the Nielsen ratings."

I'm talking national ESPN ratings for basketball games.

You're talking ESPN ratings in the New York Metro for college football when the NY Metro watches college football on NBC on Saturdays if they watch college football at all. 1.45 is actually pretty bad. The Syracuse-Duke basketball game was 4.2.

 

[btstimpy]

Attendance numbers are essentially fantasy numbers.

Schools are putting prettying up the corpse with their reported numbers - there's zero chance there were 50,000 people at the average Pitt game or 47,000 at a Rutgers game.

Sorry, but no.

Anyone see the Pitt-Syracuse game? It was empty, but I bet Syracuse told the world that 35 or 40 thousand people were there.

Syracuse claimed 35,000 for Pitt and 37,000 for Boston College in football. If the place holds 50,000 then it would look somewhat empty. What's wierd is that they get 35,000 for some of these basketball games. How do the people in back see anything? Syracuse was added mostly for their basketball brand. I don't think there is any dispute there.

 

[JayRU09]

1.45 doubled what 'New York's College Team' did, so.............what's your point? You're arguing why it was smart to take Syracuse over Rutgers and all you have is basketball ratings, which would matter if football didn't exist.

We're still the most followed team in the NYC metro for college football (unless if you forget that a good portion of New Jersey is in the NYC metro, in which case you're just arguing without knowing anything).

And national ratings for basketball? Call me when basketball is driving the bus.

 

[UPitt]

Let's see what those attendances numbers were before a season with FSU and Notre Dame on the home schedule.

We had about 47k with USF/Cincy/Houston/Norfolk State/Eastern Michigan/Temple/Arkansas (Sell out basically) as our home schedule.

Arkansas, a not so good (some would say terrible) team from the SEC drew a sell out for all intensive purposes. What do people expect to happen when Michigan and PSU come to town?

Like with all things northeast, it's who you're playing and/or how good you are. Pitt's attendance in 2012 was 41K. That's a 8k swing on schedule alone. We're at 46k with a god awful schedule. We were at 49k in 2012 with an even worse schedule but a better team. Northeast football.

Did you look at the 2012 Pitt schedule? Its makes the schedule you listed above look good. Pitt was scheduled to play WVU at home in November and replaced that game with Rutgers. The school then marketed a home game against Rutgers as the marquee game for the season. What does that say about our schedule for 2012? Try looking at the previous ten years and you will find an average near 50k.

I agree Rutgers and Maryland will get a boost in attendance by playing teams from the B1G, but it will be much smaller than you expect. If your stadium only seats ~52,500 and you play a few bad OOC games, how high do you really expect the actual average attendance to be?

 

[JayRU09]

WVU was terrible in 2012 and got replaced with a team that was ranked going into the Pitt game.

I expect our average attendance to go to about 50K-51K.

And please, 50K average for Pitt? You must have some weird water out there turning fans into chairs cause there is no way that's actual attendance.

 

[Fishy]

Syracuse claimed 35,000 for Pitt and 37,000 for Boston College in football. If the place holds 50,000 then it would look somewhat empty. What's wierd is that they get 35,000 for some of these basketball games. How do the people in back see anything? Syracuse was added mostly for their basketball brand. I don't think there is any dispute there.

Thanks for the lesson, but we're kinda familiar with the Carrier Dome, you know. (They don't sell seats in the back - the truly awful seats are opposite one of the corners....you have a pretty good view of the game from there provided that you're a falcon or eagle or some sort of freaky-sighted bird of prey. But they have heat and beer which basically makes it more desirable than 99% of the places in Syracuse on a given day.)

Any way, for the harder to convince...

The official attendance tally announced by Syracuse University for Saturday's 17-16 loss to Pittsburgh at the Carrier Dome was 35,317.

OK, let's get this out of the way. At no point were there 35,317 butts in those seats, even if you started counting people twice.

ESPN Radio's Chris McManus reported on his post game radio show Saturday night that a source in the know told him the actual turnstile count at Saturday's game was around 21,000.

Linky

 

[UPitt]

Syracuse claimed 35,000 for Pitt and 37,000 for Boston College in football. If the place holds 50,000 then it would look somewhat empty. What's wierd is that they get 35,000 for some of these basketball games. How do the people in back see anything? Syracuse was added mostly for their basketball brand. I don't think there is any dispute there.

Have you been to the carrier dome? It looks funny if you take a picture from the ceiling, but it's actually pretty cool the way they set it up. They cut the stadium in half and set up temp bleachers on the football field. I actually think if you can get the fans and have a dome, its a great set up. And I am sure you have additional home court advantage due to the increased lack of backdrop behind the hoops (similar to the complaints you hear from players when they play in other football stadiums). As fans, you are still much closer to the court than you are when watching a football game or than you are when the final four is played in a football stadiums.

 

[UPitt]

WVU was terrible in 2012 and got replaced with a team that was ranked going into the Pitt game.

I expect our average attendance to go to about 50K-51K.

And please, 50K average for Pitt? You must have some weird water out there turning fans into chairs cause there is no way that's actual attendance.

You sound really stupid claiming that Pitt would see an increase in ticket sales by replacing WVU with Rutgers. The Rutgers game drew ~38k, where as WVU would have been a sell out as usual with nearly 65k+. Also, that terrible 2012 WVU team started the season 5-0 with two wins over ranked teams, and lost by 1 to a highly ranked OK team. Maybe Rutgers doesn't have a close rival, but records do not matter when Pitt plays WVU (or PSU/ND).

And if you do a little math, playing Rutgers cost Pitt nearly 30k fans for a six home game schedule. With that extra 5k fans per game average that WVU would have provided, Pitt would have been right in line with other years and on pace with your precious Rutgers.

Thank you Rutgers for causing a down year in attendance in 2012, signed Pitt.

 

[btstimpy]

Have you been to the carrier dome? It looks funny if you take a picture from the ceiling, but it's actually pretty cool the way they set it up. They cut the stadium in half and set up temp bleachers on the football field. I actually think if you can get the fans and have a dome, its a great set up. And I am sure you have additional home court advantage due to the increased lack of backdrop behind the hoops (similar to the complaints you hear from players when they play in other football stadiums). As fans, you are still much closer to the court than you are when watching a football game or than you are when the final four is played in a football stadiums.

I have never been to the Carrier Dome. One of these days I'd like to get there. Given that Syracuse is in the Atlantic Division and not the Coastal, I'll probably have to go there for basketball. We won't be playing Syracuse in football very often.

 

[UPitt]

I have never been to the Carrier Dome. One of these days I'd like to get there. Given that Syracuse is in the Atlantic Division and not the Coastal, I'll probably have to go there for basketball. We won't be playing Syracuse in football very often.

Its nothing special for football, but worth a trip for basketball. And if Virginia keeps it up, that will be a game to watch next season.

 

[Pat125]

I agree on UConn and perhaps WVU. WVU needs a little work though. But keep in mind that the two Syracuse vs Duke men's basketball games this season are two of the top 5 most watched men's college basketball games in the history of any ESPN property. Syracuse has spent most of this season at Number 1 in the AP poll. And Syracuse defeated Minnesota in their bowl game this season. Syracuse is a great lacrosse addition. New York's College team has been a positive addition. Pittsburgh won their bowl game as well. Their basketball team will finish in the top 6 of the league. Wresting won the league. I think Pitt will be fine.

You mention Rutgers, and several here have previously. I don't think Rutgers has been to a NCAA men's basketball tournament in over 40 years. They don't look like a threat to get there any time soon. Rutgers has won 1 NCAA championship in its history in the 1940s. They have been to a hand full of minor bowls in the past decade while playing a Big East schedule. I'm not sure they have dominated the Big East or AAC in any sport ever. What is your attraction? You are not the only one as I've said. I've heard it here before. But I don't see them ahead of any other school that the ACC has invited.

When the ACC was considering its 12th member, WVU seemed like a logical choice, since the ACC was still contained in the southeast. Academically, they appear to me to be at least on the level of Louisville. I understand there is a great difference of opinion on that point. Also, WVU seemed to be good enough in football and basketball. But apparently, the ACC did not want to settle and was interested in moving northeast.

I mentioned Rutgers in the context of being a better choice than BC. Why? Some bias here, as I went to Rutgers-Newark as an undergrad. Rutgers is closer than BC. Rutgers is more like the institutions in the ACC, and better academically. And at least as good in athletics. Yes, Rutgers has definitely had its struggles, and still does, I could make the argument that it would have improved in the ACC. But I understand that argument doesn't necessary hold, as it apparently hasn't helped BC.

 

[btstimpy]

When the ACC was considering its 12th member, WVU seemed like a logical choice, since the ACC was still contained in the southeast. Academically, they appear to me to be at least on the level of Louisville. I understand there is a great difference of opinion on that point. Also, WVU seemed to be good enough in football and basketball. But apparently, the ACC did not want to settle and was interested in moving northeast.

I mentioned Rutgers in the context of being a better choice than BC. Why? Some bias here, as I went to Rutgers-Newark as an undergrad. Rutgers is closer than BC. Rutgers is more like the institutions in the ACC, and better academically. And at least as good in athletics. Yes, Rutgers has definitely had its struggles, and still does, I could make the argument that it would have improved in the ACC. But I understand that argument doesn't necessary hold, as it apparently hasn't helped BC.

I don't remember a whole lot of deliberation at that time for sport number 12. The ACC had stopped at 11 with Miami and Virginia Tech. A year went by with the ACC trying to get a Championship Game approved at 11. They ACC was also in talks with Notre Dame then to be 12. When that didn't go anywhere, there was Boston College still knocking on the door. Syracuse no longer seemed interested, so the ACC invited Boston College without too much deliberation. Boston College and Syracuse had already been vetted the year before.

I don't have an issue with WVU. They already have a built in rivalry with Pittsburgh as well as Virginia Tech. Their athletics would fit fine, and geographically they would fit fine. Academics are on par with Louisville. The fan base is as obnoxious and unsportsmanlike as they come, but I guess that could be overlooked as long as it is not violent. I don't think they want to be in the ACC though. Just like buckanieer on here says, they all think that the Big XII is the best place to be.

BTW, this game Sunday at the Comcast Center will be a bona fide carnival. Maryland is marketing it as the Farewell Game with T-Shirts, posters, autograph sessons with Lefty Driesel, Gary Williams, and some players. They have photo opportunities with ACC trophies, and an interactive ACC moment wall. Not sure what that is. The game is sold out. Our poor team won't know what kind of event they showed up to.

http://www.umterps.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=29700&ATCLID=209427866

 

[billybud]

Actually, many WVU fans wanted the SEC or the ACC....

Spurned by both conferences, they are following that old song.."if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with".

 

[NickyNewark]

I have to laugh when you bring up E. Gordon Gee. He just took over at West Virginia University last week. They are rated worse than Louisville academically. The irony is hilarious. Maybe this is his shot at helping them learn to read and write. LOL.

You think Louisville was a desperation move by the ACC. I know Rutgers and Maryland was a desperation move by the Big Ten. Two financially challenged athletic departments grabbed life rafts. We'll have to see how it all works out in the long run.

Are you serious comparing large state U's(in large rich states) with deep pockets to small privates? Why were there ADs in trouble (esp MD) if the ACC payouts are so great? Didnt you read WestCoastHuskys comment about foresight and longterm marriage? Im sure if MD thought the ACC was solid they'd have stayed as a founding school! What does that say stimp? No wonder Swoffy was redfaced when caught with his pants down celebrating his ND partial move. I hope his brother in law still has his job at Raycom.

Jim Delaney has said it. They felt threatened when the ACC added Pitt, Syracuse, and then Notre Dame. They know that the country's demographics are growing slowest in the midwest, and they were concerned about losing Penn State long term. They didn't grab based on any eyeballs. Not that many eyeballs look at those two new members. You can tell that based on attendance. They grabbed based on cable subscribers in those states. We'll have to see how that works out.

 

[NickyNewark]

Jim Delaney has said it. They felt threatened when the ACC added Pitt, Syracuse, and then Notre Dame. They know that the country's demographics are growing slowest in the midwest, and they were concerned about losing Penn State long term. They didn't grab based on any eyeballs. Not that many eyeballs look at those two new members. You can tell that based on attendance. They grabbed based on cable subscribers in those states. We'll have to see how that works out.

Are you serious? Part Deux....Why would Delany feel threatened when he could have had any one of those schools(except ND)? SU/Pitt would jump in a nanosecond if the B1G offered!! These are "little brother" schools too the B1G like some southern schools are to FSU or L'ville would never been added. Pitt and SU only jumped to the ACC IMO because they knew where all this(CR) was going after the study results came out and didn't like the thought of being bypassed by a perceived "inferior"!!

 

[NickyNewark]

Actually, many WVU fans wanted the SEC or the ACC....

Spurned by both conferences, they are following that old song.."if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with".

I'm not sure but I'd love to see WVU's record in FB against all ACC teams except FSU. I'll bet its quite superior. Shame WVU is stuck in a conference they have little in common with....they deserved better IMO. So little interaction between fans and alums isn't good for building rivalries and expensive olympic sport traveling will wear them down.

 

[NickyNewark]

Its nothing special for football, but worth a trip for basketball. And if Virginia keeps it up, that will be a game to watch next season.

Next year? Heck didnt UVa beat them last week? Might be the WORST CFB venue in major CFB and weak "tailgating" area....no space.Great place to sing acapella though if you're looking for an echo !!

 

[Pat125]

I don't remember a whole lot of deliberation at that time for sport number 12. The ACC had stopped at 11 with Miami and Virginia Tech. A year went by with the ACC trying to get a Championship Game approved at 11. They ACC was also in talks with Notre Dame then to be 12. When that didn't go anywhere, there was Boston College still knocking on the door. Syracuse no longer seemed interested, so the ACC invited Boston College without too much deliberation. Boston College and Syracuse had already been vetted the year before.

I don't have an issue with WVU. They already have a built in rivalry with Pittsburgh as well as Virginia Tech. Their athletics would fit fine, and geographically they would fit fine. Academics are on par with Louisville. The fan base is as obnoxious and unsportsmanlike as they come, but I guess that could be overlooked as long as it is not violent. I don't think they want to be in the ACC though. Just like buckanieer on here says, they all think that the Big XII is the best place to be.

BTW, this game Sunday at the Comcast Center will be a bona fide carnival. Maryland is marketing it as the Farewell Game with T-Shirts, posters, autograph sessons with Lefty Driesel, Gary Williams, and some players. They have photo opportunities with ACC trophies, and an interactive ACC moment wall. Not sure what that is. The game is sold out. Our poor team won't know what kind of event they showed up to.

http://www.umterps.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=29700&ATCLID=209427866

I do remember the ACC at the time wanting to stay at 11, but with a championship game. When that didn't happen, they wanted a twelfth member ASAP. So maybe they didn't have time to deliberate. Obviously, adding ND would not solve the championship game issue, so that wasn't an option. It's just hard to believe that UConn or Rutgers wasn't interested at the time, or the ACC thought that BC was the best of the three options.

As for WVU, and despite what Buckaineer says, WVU would have accepted an ACC invitation. I just don't think they were ever seriously considered.

Actually, I'm happy to hear that Maryland is making a big deal with Sunday's game. They should celebrate the 60 years in the ACC despite everything that has gone down. I enjoyed going to many conference games while I was at Maryland. I went to the first sold out women's game at Cole Field House. One guess who won that game. I'm just hoping for a win Sunday. Then perhaps if Maryland at least makes it to the semis in the ACC tournament, they can make it to the NCAA tournament.

 

[NickyNewark]

You sound really stupid claiming that Pitt would see an increase in ticket sales by replacing WVU with Rutgers. The Rutgers game drew ~38k, where as WVU would have been a sell out as usual with nearly 65k+. Also, that terrible 2012 WVU team started the season 5-0 with two wins over ranked teams, and lost by 1 to a highly ranked OK team. Maybe Rutgers doesn't have a close rival, but records do not matter when Pitt plays WVU (or PSU/ND).

And if you do a little math, playing Rutgers cost Pitt nearly 30k fans for a six home game schedule. With that extra 5k fans per game average that WVU would have provided, Pitt would have been right in line with other years and on pace with your precious Rutgers.

Thank you Rutgers for causing a down year in attendance in 2012, signed Pitt.

Yes its a shame you guys lost WVU in CR because that is the rivalry game in the W.Pa/WV area but if PSU came to town be prepared for a real invasion of Nitnation loyalist from everywhere. Pitt actually fits better in the B1G than the ACC but hope you find a way to keeo WV on the schedule. CR is playing havoc on the landscape.

 

[UPitt]

Next year? Heck didnt UVa beat them last week? Might be the WORST CFB venue in major CFB and weak "tailgating" area....no space.Great place to sing acapella though if you're looking for an echo !!

Nicky, I said next year because he was looking to take a trip to the carrier dome. Virginia should be playing up there next year and if they have a season anything like this one, that game will be a really good game to attend. And thanks for reaffirming my thoughts on it for football, with slightly more tone.

 

[UPitt]

Yes its a shame you guys lost WVU in CR because that is the rivalry game in the W.Pa/WV area but if PSU came to town be prepared for a real invasion of Nitnation loyalist from everywhere. Pitt actually fits better in the B1G than the ACC but hope you find a way to keeo WV on the schedule. CR is playing havoc on the landscape.

PSU and ND are both bigger rivalry games to fans in Pittsburgh because of the tradition from the 70s and 80s. WVU happens to be less than an hour drive, so its a big rivalry as well. We do have PSU on the schedule for 4 games starting in two years, and have been working on adding WVU to replace ND in the years we won't be playing ND because of the new ACC scheduling.

I'v discussed the B1G vs ACC before on this board, but to some it up, 10 years ago I would have prefered the B1G but today I prefer the ACC. Pitt is smaller than most of the B1G schools and I think the gap has grown larger since 2000 and will continue to grow larger each year. It would be great to play PSU yearly and collect the money the B1G has, but I just do not see how Pitt would fit in with the larger land grant type schools. Although public, Pitt is much more in line with private type schools such as Cuse, BC, Miami, Duke, Wake, etc.

 

[NickyNewark]

PSU and ND are both bigger rivalry games to fans in Pittsburgh because of the tradition from the 70s and 80s. WVU happens to be less than an hour drive, so its a big rivalry as well. We do have PSU on the schedule for 4 games starting in two years, and have been working on adding WVU to replace ND in the years we won't be playing ND because of the new ACC scheduling.

I'v discussed the B1G vs ACC before on this board, but to some it up, 10 years ago I would have prefered the B1G but today I prefer the ACC. Pitt is smaller than most of the B1G schools and I think the gap has grown larger since 2000 and will continue to grow larger each year. It would be great to play PSU yearly and collect the money the B1G has, but I just do not see how Pitt would fit in with the larger land grant type schools. Although public, Pitt is much more in line with private type schools such as Cuse, BC, Miami, Duke, Wake, etc.

Believe it or not even I followed Pitt during the golden era of Hugh Green and Ricky Jackson and Tony Dorsett as a NYC metro guy Defense in those days are what made me a big fan of any FB and as a 7 yr old I got into the pagentry of HS FB and never looked back. With all the health concerns around FB I still think it builds heroes and character and I'm saddened by the decline of toughness in the modern American in comparison to the 50s/60s era youth. Can we live in a coccoon and live life w/o risk? Is that really living? FB is a choice not mandatory and if everyone could play it we wouldn't love it!

 

[NickyNewark]

For what it's worth.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2013.pdf

Ville 52514
Pitt 49741
Rutgers 46549
Maryland 41278
Cuse 38277

Not too much difference in numbers here. I really don't think a few thousand fans a game makes a huge difference in revenue.

I assume this is measured attendance, because Pitt sold well over 50K season tickets this past season if you include student ticket sales, due in large part to the home schedule. Also, the attendance numbers reported by Pitt are likely to be inaccurate due to a ticket scanning issue that required tickets to be ripped and counted the old fashion way.

A friend of mine whose a Cuse fan and FB season ticket holder said after 1 game this season they were lucky if 20G showed but the newspaper reported numbers similar to you're SU posted figure? Tickets paid for or actual attendance? This guy at least knows closing your eyes to something don't change whats right before you! I can't speak on you're attendance at Pitt but I do know SUFB only gets 25/31G actual attendee's based on recent average by honest Cuse FB fans. @My apologies as I see Fishy already covered this ground above in an earlier post ha ha sounds a lot like that was the game my friend was talking about?

 

[Fairfield_1st]

We've officially been hijacked. Posts 209 - 239 contain two posts from a UConn fan and both posts belong to Fishy.

 

[NickyNewark]

Where's you're sense of hospitality? UPitt has been here longer than many UConn fan's and seem's a decent sort. CR is bigger than any one fan or team as it concern's all of us. Uninterested might be a better word than highjacked and the thread is about an ACC net or lack thereof so its only natural the BY thread would attract an ACC leaning crowd but I also see and understand you're point/..frustration?

 

[Fairfield_1st]

No frustration, just what I was hoping was a comical observation. Obviously I'm still reading. It just occurred to me scrolling through that the majority of the posts were from welcome visitors, so I felt the need to actually quantify. Can't help myself. It's a sickness.