Andrew Harrison on Kaminsky: "duck* that n****r"

[noeynox]

The "N" word . . . either it is OK for everyone to say . . . or for no one to say. Not OK for blacks to say to each other, but racist for whites to say to blacks. As for blacks saying it to whites . . . . that's just dumb. Bottom line? The "N" word is never appropriate. Ever. In any context. In any groups.

Says you. We may not like it, but the use of it isn't going away among black youth. No need to skewer a kid over it to drive home some point about a double standard that doesn't exist. People in this thread did a good job explaining it if you need to better understand it.

 

[mauconnfan]

Says you. We may not like it, but the use of it isn't going away among black youth. No need to skewer a kid over it to drive home some point about a double standard that doesn't exist. People in this thread did a good job explaining it if you need to better understand it.

He has an opinion as does everyone else. This is a kid in a high profile situation for a program with high standards let's not pretend he should have said it, that should be clear. It shouldn't be a big story but it's also not something to just sweep away like most seem to want to. If someone has an opinion it should be heard and respected.

 

[noeynox]

He has an opinion as does everyone else. This is a kid in a high profile situation for a program with high standards let's not pretend he should have said it, that should be clear. It shouldn't be a big story but it's also not something to just sweep away like most seem to want to. If someone has an opinion it should be heard and respected.

No doubt. Just don't pretend to be the moral arbiter on whether or not a word is a acceptable to be used by a whole race of people. Especially THAT word. Sometimes when things make US uncomfortable that is an us issue.

 

[mauconnfan]

No doubt. Just don't pretend to be the moral arbiter on whether or not a word is a acceptable to be used by a whole race of people. Especially THAT word. Sometimes when things make US uncomfortable that is an us issue.

I agree just not expected to be used at a podium of the FF nor should it be.

 

[noeynox]

I agree just not expected to be used at a podium of the FF nor should it be.

I think the kid slipped up. I don't think he meant it as a compliment, he just wasn't in any mood to sing the praises of the dude that just ruined his dream season the mic caught what should have been a moment of introspection.

 

[01Neaggrad02]

I am actually in an argument about this with a friend. She thinks that the "White man" has oppressed the "black man" and used the word to put them down, and now they are reclaiming the word for themselves and therefore can use it whenever. I disagree... if one group of people cannot use the word then no group of people can use the word. Had it been a white guy who said this there would have been a riot. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would be leading the cause. But because it was the other way around there is no harm no foul? The rules need to be the same for everyone.

 

[Leebo]

Good lord, some of the word Nazis in this thread...

 

[Leebo]

I am actually in an argument about this with a friend. She thinks that the "White man" has oppressed the "black man" and used the word to put them down, and now they are reclaiming the word for themselves and therefore can use it whenever. I disagree... if one group of people cannot use the word then no group of people can use the word. Had it been a white guy who said this there would have been a riot. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would be leading the cause. But because it was the other way around there is no harm no foul? The rules need to be the same for everyone.

Because words have different meanings in different contexts. Just accept that. You sound ridiculous.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

Its pretty obvious that one can say it and the other cant. Blacks dont say it to each other with the meaning that whites MIGHT use it. There is room for interpretation, so dont say it. If you are white and you want to go around saying that, i'll just warn you now, be smart and dont. Say it to the wrong person and you will have major problems on your hands. Just like if you are black and you dont associate with other blacks and you try to say that to some other blacks (that do use the word on the regular), you are liable to get your ass whooped. its a cultural thing and if you are not apart of that culture just dont go there.

Its not as cut and dry as people think. Even among blacks its not generally accepted. Maybe you can say it with your friends, but then you slip and say it infront of an older family member and you get popped or lectured on the history of the word. Been like that for ages now.

Either way i will say this. blacks know when its acceptable and not acceptable to use that word. You dont say it at your job or to your teacher thats a problem. Andrew knew that what he was saying wasnt acceptable in that setting, kid is stupid.

 

[Ohio UConn]

my wife went to Bucknell. She told me over weekend that 3 'wh***' students who were handling student radio late one night (around 1:00am) were supposedly overheard by some inmate at local penitentiary in Lewisburg (how is an inmate listening to radio at 1am?...just askin') overheard them joking around say what the UK kid said................. they were expelled.

Personally, I think there is no issue with the UK kid..........but the double standard & hypocrisy is the issue.

I'm ok....you are not. Rap music can mention the word incessantly ....but if a wh*** student dares to utter this even among close friends ....the world come to an end.

Ridiculous...........

 

[Leebo]

What the hell kind of statement are you trying to make with "wh***"

 

[phillionaire]

my wife went to Bucknell. She told me over weekend that 3 'wh***' students who were handling student radio late one night (around 1:00am) were supposedly overheard by some inmate at local penitentiary in Lewisburg (how is an inmate listening to radio at 1am?...just askin') overheard them joking around say what the UK kid said....... they were expelled. Personally, I think there is no issue with the UK kid.....but the double standard & hypocrisy is the issue. I'm ok....you are not. Rap music can mention the word incessantly ....but if a wh*** student dares to utter this even among close friends ....the world come to an end. Ridiculous......

Yes will somebody please think of the poor white people

 

[Ohio UConn]

What the hell kind of statement are you trying to make with "wh***"

no statement at all......just underscoring the utter ridiculousness of this all. So all of a sudden I am pulling for 'poor white kids" ...... that is not the point. I totally understand context and inappropriate use.....but if students are getting expelled over this ....that is a permanent & damaging impact for arguable stupidity when every rap tune brings this in.

I have no problem with a student getting expelled.....if it is clear there is evident racial animus......but the white kids are largely joking around...and they are getting canned immediately.

Look at what happened to the UVA fraternity because of the animus of Rolling Stone, etc. that is the point.

 

[ctchamps]

If we don't stop trying to destroy each other with political correctness, we will fail as a nation. A curse is a normal part of human existence.
Someone does an injustice you insult him. Since skin color is the most notable feature, you curse his race. This is natural.
What is unnatural is trying to destroy another person's life over a single word. We have to cut each other some slack.

Most of us here also live in the north, and those that don't are self-selecting. I have family in the south. Hang around them enough and they let their guard down. Not saying they'd actually act on the things they said, but...

Once I married a non-white woman, they suddenly stopped talking in their uniquely southern way. I don't think they stopped believing what they did, just the comfort level changed.

I pick on the south because there is a higher level of it. I mean, I'll never forget the kid who yelled at Hilton Armstrong "Go back to Africa!" But there are these people everywhere, and until you are with someone consistently that isn't white, it's easy to not realize it.

I wish it was a regional problem. It's not. It's endemic to humanity!

Discrimination was a biological term that during the sixties took on a social meaning. Living things are programmed to differentiate. The value is to avoid destruction. The initial reflex is to perceive danger and then reassess. Humanity abstracts this function.

I've taken plenty of hits in the northeast over my differences. I've given a few back.

The value of discussing all this and making these social issues is to help us collectively reduce the impact of our biological reflexes. But I agree with pnow15, we can go to the other extreme and be overly judgmental and not account for inherent naturally programmed instincts.

And I agree with tzzandrew. There is still less restraint in the south to try to overcome the natural instincts of this particular issue. I would also add that there is a generational difference. But even this statement is an over generalization. Suffice it to say that we are all, more or less, at tension between our inherit individual instinct to survive versus our group instinct to coexist.

 

[8893]

Yes will somebody please think of the poor white people

Wait, you're talking about UK fans, right?

 

[ctchamps]

What I love about threads like this is that we can see a lot of where our misunderstandings come from even among people who are sincerely trying to work at improving the world.

For instance some people place value on a word and others place value on the intent of the word. This immediately bifurcates the issue.

For some there is a recognition that a hot topic can get off the rails pretty quickly or certain type of issues are uncomfortable for them to discuss with strangers and they prefer to avoid this type of group discussion. For others, they have learned to resolve things by undertaking these type of exercises and they prefer to continue the conversation. Again another bifurcation from the original issue.

Bottom line is that we perceive and handle things differently. There is not one perfect shoe that fits us all. It is hard to accommodate all of our differences and needs. This doesn't mean the efforts are fruitless. It just means that solutions are not ever going to be simple.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

If you want to get on a high horse and say it was poor sportsmanship, then fine.

The racial slur in this context is meaningless and simply synonymous with guy.

For everyone throwing out derogatory comments at Harrison, how about when Kemba got caught on a hot mic saying the same thing?

Don't think I saw the moral outrage here after that.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

The meaning of what he said is clearly not derogatory. Its jsut highly inappriopate. And it angers alot of blacks because then you have to hear, see, isnt that racist? Why i cant white people say it without losing their job? Harrison is just flat out a sore loser and used poor judgement in the type of language he used. Wrong setting. Doesnt bode well for him as a pro prospect either. You think a team wants to deal with someone shooting off at the mouth like that? Especially a large media market team? stupid kid

 

[businesslawyer]

I am actually in an argument about this with a friend. She thinks that the "White man" has oppressed the "black man" and used the word to put them down, and now they are reclaiming the word for themselves and therefore can use it whenever. I disagree... if one group of people cannot use the word then no group of people can use the word. Had it been a white guy who said this there would have been a riot. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would be leading the cause. But because it was the other way around there is no harm no foul? The rules need to be the same for everyone.

LMAO. Talk about ridiculous, fake moral equivalency. A race which enslaved another for 150 years, and then kept them subject to Jim Crow laws for another 100 years, does not have the unilateral power to say "the rules need to be the same for everyone." Because if the rules had always been the same for everyone, our country would be in a very different place today. Your argument is the equivalent to punching someone in the face, and then telling them that assault is never acceptable so they have to agree no more punches on either side.

 

[Ohio UConn]

Biz Esquire: I do not disagree with your articulation. I get it....your point. But what irks me is it is ok for someone to be stupid arguably and gets some commentary.....but if some unknowing kid who happens to be white stumbles into this morass.....they are going to be expelled. That is real potentially permanent career ending (before a career starts) harm. Who is going to hire someone portrayed as racially insensitive? Come on .....who?

I have zero insight on Harrison....but my reaction was more to chuckle .....as he was speaking to Kaminsky on the court in person as 'brothers-in-arms' if you will.

The sanctimonious lectures on race relations from so many who portray themselves as racially sensitive and attuned gets me at the end of the day. My family was doing more when it was truly dangerous and public opinion is not what it is today in 2015 (say 1962-4) than all the lecturing one hears from academia when their hands were tainted in terms of real discrimination back in the day. My older sister was with an almost foolhardy catholic priest who went in with the first african-american family to move into a Cicero, Illinois apartment. The Illinois national guard had to be called out....my father was terrified for his daughter's safety. I believe a classic photo on the cover of LIFE magazine showed the hate & tension between the Cicero natives and the scared Illinois national guardsmen that day. I went with my sister to summer camps all day at Precious Blood parish when white flight had taken over Chicago's west side after the MLK riots.

Our family was taught....all men & women are equal in the eyes of God. We staked out personal reputations and risked real threats, intimidation and violence for our firm support for the end of discrimination. But just because there is historical controversy does not mean some unknowing white kid ought get expelled when everyone everywhere is using certain words. That is ridiculous.

Spare me the perspective from the higher ground. Where is the outrage that for over a decade young african-american boys/men are getting slaughtered in Chicago? zero attention in the news media.....why? and it is not about gun control either..... let's start with corruption and the Chicago police knowing the drug dealers have the inside track.......

 

[businesslawyer]

Biz Esquire: I do not disagree with your articulation. I get it....your point. But what irks me is it is ok for someone to be stupid arguably and gets some commentary.....but if some unknowing kid who happens to be white stumbles into this morass.....they are going to be expelled. That is real potentially permanent career ending (before a career starts) harm. Who is going to hire someone portrayed as racially insensitive? Come on .....who?

I have zero insight on Harrison....but my reaction was more to chuckle .....as he was speaking to Kaminsky on the court in person as 'brothers-in-arms' if you will.

The sanctimonious lectures on race relations from so many who portray themselves as racially sensitive and attuned gets me at the end of the day. My family was doing more when it was truly dangerous and public opinion is not what it is today in 2015 (say 1962-4) than all the lecturing one hears from academia when their hands were tainted in terms of real discrimination back in the day. My older sister was with an almost foolhardy catholic priest who went in with the first african-american family to move into a Cicero, Illinois apartment. The Illinois national guard had to be called out....my father was terrified for his daughter's safety. I believe a classic photo on the cover of LIFE magazine showed the hate & tension between the Cicero natives and the scared Illinois national guardsmen that day. I went with my sister to summer camps all day at Precious Blood parish when white flight had taken over Chicago's west side after the MLK riots.

Our family was taught....all men & women are equal in the eyes of God. We staked out personal reputations and risked real threats, intimidation and violence for our firm support for the end of discrimination. But just because there is historical controversy does not mean some unknowing white kid ought get expelled when everyone everywhere is using certain words. That is ridiculous.

Spare me the perspective from the higher ground. Where is the outrage that for over a decade young african-american boys/men are getting slaughtered in Chicago? zero attention in the news media.....why? and it is not about gun control either..... let's start with corruption and the Chicago police knowing the drug dealers have the inside track..

So good for your family. I mean that sincerely. But how does that drive this discussion? You must realize that the fact that the gangs control Chicago has zippo to do with whether it's o.k. for a white man to call a black man a , right? Zippo. And you don't get to decide that because black America has bigger problems than white men calling black men ban me they are not allowed to be offended by it.

I will make two last points and leave this discussion alone, as there is little more to be said. First, does anyone really think that Kaminsky was bothered by this even in the slightest? It would seem absurd to think that. The first time my son was called a on the courts, he was puzzled and surprised, but it never occured to him to be angry or bothered. Second, the next time that someone whines about how the left wing media only covers whites calling blacks ban me and not vice versa, please remember how much publicity this silly statement got before having the chutzpah to hit us with that drivel.

I'm getting to more important things. Others can carry this on or not.

 

[nomar]

First, does anyone really think that Kaminsky was bothered by this even in the slightest? It would seem absurd to think that. The first time my son was called a on the courts, he was puzzled and surprised, but it never occured to him to be angry or bothered.

I'd like one white person from the "context doesn't matter" crowd to say with a straight race that they'd truly be offended if a black person called them the n-word (let alone as offended as that black person would be if that word had been said to them by the white person).

 

[OkaForPrez]

I'm just sad I can't sing along with Biggie in public. RIP.

 

[BlueMAB]

Two things:
First,
Blacks calling each other the n word should stop, but not because of any double standard. Because it's a symptom of the larger disease of a lack of self respect. I look at the amount of black on black crime, the fact that most black men are murdered by other black men, and come to the conclusion that while it's obviously not the cause, it is certainly related. We don't respect each other enough to stop calling each other that word. Maybe if we did, we would stop destroying our own communities with drugs and violence. I understand that is a much larger discussion, but at the end of that discussion, the one undeniable fact is we each are responsible for our own actions.

I had to edit the second point...

It appears you can post the word "sex" now. I guess that's a good thing. But why is "" still allowed through the filter?

 

[Ohio UConn]

So good for your family. I mean that sincerely. But how does that drive this discussion? You must realize that the fact that the gangs control Chicago has zippo to do with whether it's o.k. for a white man to call a black man a , right? Zippo. And you don't get to decide that because black America has bigger problems than white men calling black men ban me they are not allowed to be offended by it.

I will make two last points and leave this discussion alone, as there is little more to be said. First, does anyone really think that Kaminsky was bothered by this even in the slightest? It would seem absurd to think that. The first time my son was called a on the courts, he was puzzled and surprised, but it never occured to him to be angry or bothered. Second, the next time that someone whines about how the left wing media only covers whites calling blacks ban me and not vice versa, please remember how much publicity this silly statement got before having the chutzpah to hit us with that drivel.

I'm getting to more important things. Others can carry this on or not.

simple.......let's start with friends.......good friends.........long time friends........the black friend calls his white friend a certain word. the white friend responds in kind or says more broadly....we are all ******.

The point is it becomes insoluble and infinite to make arguments on context & meaning. I can argue hate speech almost anywhere I want to look for every ethnicity on earth. I am no WASP or typical privileged white person either- there are certain words that can be cutting to me & my family. It is what it is ....humans can be cruel & terrible. But words are not actions. Now I am not arguing for the free liberal use of words that are volatile. You do not cry 'fire' in a crowded theater and I would argue certain words come close to exciting a flashing red response. Depending upon a context I can see myself seeing 'red' if someone used a certain word with me that carries a lot of connotation. I honestly get that and agree with you there. But if a student is making inappropriate statements...they are not chiefs of police or college deans or judges or biz leaders. They are students...some corrective action needs to be applied. To be a student is to be a semi-knucklehead. Unless the context is clear that harm was meant to be conveyed ...then I think one has a teaching moment ....not an expulsion determination which seems to have happened of late for unknowing white kids tumbling into this historical firepit. That is my overall comment in the context of Harrison

 

[Kembacity]

Why should be be able to say that and not face any consequences. A white kid would be pilloried in the press and media.

The same reason Larry David can make a joke and drop a hard "Jew" in it and get away with it but if Mel Gibson said the same he'd be ripped apart.

If you have a problem in your life with the fact that "Black people can use that phrase and I cant", just go swallow a gun, because this shouldn't be a concern in your life.

 

[ekiemeno]

I just wanted to +1 this since it didn't get enough attention. Also, the title of this thread should end with n***a. In the black community the "er" version is not said to each other. But that doesn't make it right for it's usage.

 

[BlueMAB]

I'd like to know why some Latinos started thinking it's acceptable to use the word.

 

[8893]

The same reason Larry David can make a joke and drop a hard "Jew" in it and get away with it but if Mel Gibson said the same he'd be ripped apart.

If you have a problem in your life with the fact that "Black people can use that phrase and I cant", just go swallow a gun, because this shouldn't be a concern in your life.

And here's what happens when Larry David uses the n-word:

 

[Leebo]

I don't understand why people would think they have the right to tell historically oppressed groups they don't have the right to reclaim slurs if that's how those groups want to process that particular form of bigotry.