Andrew Harrison on Kaminsky: "duck* that n****r"

[Leebo]

What the hell kind of statement are you trying to make with "wh***"

 

[phillionaire]

my wife went to Bucknell. She told me over weekend that 3 'wh***' students who were handling student radio late one night (around 1:00am) were supposedly overheard by some inmate at local penitentiary in Lewisburg (how is an inmate listening to radio at 1am?...just askin') overheard them joking around say what the UK kid said....... they were expelled. Personally, I think there is no issue with the UK kid.....but the double standard & hypocrisy is the issue. I'm ok....you are not. Rap music can mention the word incessantly ....but if a wh*** student dares to utter this even among close friends ....the world come to an end. Ridiculous......

Yes will somebody please think of the poor white people

 

[Ohio UConn]

What the hell kind of statement are you trying to make with "wh***"

no statement at all......just underscoring the utter ridiculousness of this all. So all of a sudden I am pulling for 'poor white kids" ...... that is not the point. I totally understand context and inappropriate use.....but if students are getting expelled over this ....that is a permanent & damaging impact for arguable stupidity when every rap tune brings this in.

I have no problem with a student getting expelled.....if it is clear there is evident racial animus......but the white kids are largely joking around...and they are getting canned immediately.

Look at what happened to the UVA fraternity because of the animus of Rolling Stone, etc. that is the point.

 

[ctchamps]

If we don't stop trying to destroy each other with political correctness, we will fail as a nation. A curse is a normal part of human existence.
Someone does an injustice you insult him. Since skin color is the most notable feature, you curse his race. This is natural.
What is unnatural is trying to destroy another person's life over a single word. We have to cut each other some slack.

Most of us here also live in the north, and those that don't are self-selecting. I have family in the south. Hang around them enough and they let their guard down. Not saying they'd actually act on the things they said, but...

Once I married a non-white woman, they suddenly stopped talking in their uniquely southern way. I don't think they stopped believing what they did, just the comfort level changed.

I pick on the south because there is a higher level of it. I mean, I'll never forget the kid who yelled at Hilton Armstrong "Go back to Africa!" But there are these people everywhere, and until you are with someone consistently that isn't white, it's easy to not realize it.

I wish it was a regional problem. It's not. It's endemic to humanity!

Discrimination was a biological term that during the sixties took on a social meaning. Living things are programmed to differentiate. The value is to avoid destruction. The initial reflex is to perceive danger and then reassess. Humanity abstracts this function.

I've taken plenty of hits in the northeast over my differences. I've given a few back.

The value of discussing all this and making these social issues is to help us collectively reduce the impact of our biological reflexes. But I agree with pnow15, we can go to the other extreme and be overly judgmental and not account for inherent naturally programmed instincts.

And I agree with tzzandrew. There is still less restraint in the south to try to overcome the natural instincts of this particular issue. I would also add that there is a generational difference. But even this statement is an over generalization. Suffice it to say that we are all, more or less, at tension between our inherit individual instinct to survive versus our group instinct to coexist.

 

[8893]

Yes will somebody please think of the poor white people

Wait, you're talking about UK fans, right?

 

[ctchamps]

What I love about threads like this is that we can see a lot of where our misunderstandings come from even among people who are sincerely trying to work at improving the world.

For instance some people place value on a word and others place value on the intent of the word. This immediately bifurcates the issue.

For some there is a recognition that a hot topic can get off the rails pretty quickly or certain type of issues are uncomfortable for them to discuss with strangers and they prefer to avoid this type of group discussion. For others, they have learned to resolve things by undertaking these type of exercises and they prefer to continue the conversation. Again another bifurcation from the original issue.

Bottom line is that we perceive and handle things differently. There is not one perfect shoe that fits us all. It is hard to accommodate all of our differences and needs. This doesn't mean the efforts are fruitless. It just means that solutions are not ever going to be simple.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

If you want to get on a high horse and say it was poor sportsmanship, then fine.

The racial slur in this context is meaningless and simply synonymous with guy.

For everyone throwing out derogatory comments at Harrison, how about when Kemba got caught on a hot mic saying the same thing?

Don't think I saw the moral outrage here after that.

 

[UconnFanNVa]

The meaning of what he said is clearly not derogatory. Its jsut highly inappriopate. And it angers alot of blacks because then you have to hear, see, isnt that racist? Why i cant white people say it without losing their job? Harrison is just flat out a sore loser and used poor judgement in the type of language he used. Wrong setting. Doesnt bode well for him as a pro prospect either. You think a team wants to deal with someone shooting off at the mouth like that? Especially a large media market team? stupid kid

 

[businesslawyer]

I am actually in an argument about this with a friend. She thinks that the "White man" has oppressed the "black man" and used the word to put them down, and now they are reclaiming the word for themselves and therefore can use it whenever. I disagree... if one group of people cannot use the word then no group of people can use the word. Had it been a white guy who said this there would have been a riot. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would be leading the cause. But because it was the other way around there is no harm no foul? The rules need to be the same for everyone.

LMAO. Talk about ridiculous, fake moral equivalency. A race which enslaved another for 150 years, and then kept them subject to Jim Crow laws for another 100 years, does not have the unilateral power to say "the rules need to be the same for everyone." Because if the rules had always been the same for everyone, our country would be in a very different place today. Your argument is the equivalent to punching someone in the face, and then telling them that assault is never acceptable so they have to agree no more punches on either side.

 

[Ohio UConn]

Biz Esquire: I do not disagree with your articulation. I get it....your point. But what irks me is it is ok for someone to be stupid arguably and gets some commentary.....but if some unknowing kid who happens to be white stumbles into this morass.....they are going to be expelled. That is real potentially permanent career ending (before a career starts) harm. Who is going to hire someone portrayed as racially insensitive? Come on .....who?

I have zero insight on Harrison....but my reaction was more to chuckle .....as he was speaking to Kaminsky on the court in person as 'brothers-in-arms' if you will.

The sanctimonious lectures on race relations from so many who portray themselves as racially sensitive and attuned gets me at the end of the day. My family was doing more when it was truly dangerous and public opinion is not what it is today in 2015 (say 1962-4) than all the lecturing one hears from academia when their hands were tainted in terms of real discrimination back in the day. My older sister was with an almost foolhardy catholic priest who went in with the first african-american family to move into a Cicero, Illinois apartment. The Illinois national guard had to be called out....my father was terrified for his daughter's safety. I believe a classic photo on the cover of LIFE magazine showed the hate & tension between the Cicero natives and the scared Illinois national guardsmen that day. I went with my sister to summer camps all day at Precious Blood parish when white flight had taken over Chicago's west side after the MLK riots.

Our family was taught....all men & women are equal in the eyes of God. We staked out personal reputations and risked real threats, intimidation and violence for our firm support for the end of discrimination. But just because there is historical controversy does not mean some unknowing white kid ought get expelled when everyone everywhere is using certain words. That is ridiculous.

Spare me the perspective from the higher ground. Where is the outrage that for over a decade young african-american boys/men are getting slaughtered in Chicago? zero attention in the news media.....why? and it is not about gun control either..... let's start with corruption and the Chicago police knowing the drug dealers have the inside track.......

 

[businesslawyer]

Biz Esquire: I do not disagree with your articulation. I get it....your point. But what irks me is it is ok for someone to be stupid arguably and gets some commentary.....but if some unknowing kid who happens to be white stumbles into this morass.....they are going to be expelled. That is real potentially permanent career ending (before a career starts) harm. Who is going to hire someone portrayed as racially insensitive? Come on .....who?

I have zero insight on Harrison....but my reaction was more to chuckle .....as he was speaking to Kaminsky on the court in person as 'brothers-in-arms' if you will.

The sanctimonious lectures on race relations from so many who portray themselves as racially sensitive and attuned gets me at the end of the day. My family was doing more when it was truly dangerous and public opinion is not what it is today in 2015 (say 1962-4) than all the lecturing one hears from academia when their hands were tainted in terms of real discrimination back in the day. My older sister was with an almost foolhardy catholic priest who went in with the first african-american family to move into a Cicero, Illinois apartment. The Illinois national guard had to be called out....my father was terrified for his daughter's safety. I believe a classic photo on the cover of LIFE magazine showed the hate & tension between the Cicero natives and the scared Illinois national guardsmen that day. I went with my sister to summer camps all day at Precious Blood parish when white flight had taken over Chicago's west side after the MLK riots.

Our family was taught....all men & women are equal in the eyes of God. We staked out personal reputations and risked real threats, intimidation and violence for our firm support for the end of discrimination. But just because there is historical controversy does not mean some unknowing white kid ought get expelled when everyone everywhere is using certain words. That is ridiculous.

Spare me the perspective from the higher ground. Where is the outrage that for over a decade young african-american boys/men are getting slaughtered in Chicago? zero attention in the news media.....why? and it is not about gun control either..... let's start with corruption and the Chicago police knowing the drug dealers have the inside track..

So good for your family. I mean that sincerely. But how does that drive this discussion? You must realize that the fact that the gangs control Chicago has zippo to do with whether it's o.k. for a white man to call a black man a , right? Zippo. And you don't get to decide that because black America has bigger problems than white men calling black men blacks they are not allowed to be offended by it.

I will make two last points and leave this discussion alone, as there is little more to be said. First, does anyone really think that Kaminsky was bothered by this even in the slightest? It would seem absurd to think that. The first time my son was called a on the courts, he was puzzled and surprised, but it never occured to him to be angry or bothered. Second, the next time that someone whines about how the left wing media only covers whites calling blacks blacks and not vice versa, please remember how much publicity this silly statement got before having the chutzpah to hit us with that drivel.

I'm getting to more important things. Others can carry this on or not.

 

[nomar]

First, does anyone really think that Kaminsky was bothered by this even in the slightest? It would seem absurd to think that. The first time my son was called a on the courts, he was puzzled and surprised, but it never occured to him to be angry or bothered.

I'd like one white person from the "context doesn't matter" crowd to say with a straight race that they'd truly be offended if a black person called them the n-word (let alone as offended as that black person would be if that word had been said to them by the white person).

 

[OkaForPrez]

I'm just sad I can't sing along with Biggie in public. RIP.

 

[BlueMAB]

Two things:
First,
Blacks calling each other the n word should stop, but not because of any double standard. Because it's a symptom of the larger disease of a lack of self respect. I look at the amount of black on black crime, the fact that most black men are murdered by other black men, and come to the conclusion that while it's obviously not the cause, it is certainly related. We don't respect each other enough to stop calling each other that word. Maybe if we did, we would stop destroying our own communities with drugs and violence. I understand that is a much larger discussion, but at the end of that discussion, the one undeniable fact is we each are responsible for our own actions.

I had to edit the second point...

It appears you can post the word "sex" now. I guess that's a good thing. But why is "" still allowed through the filter?

 

[Ohio UConn]

So good for your family. I mean that sincerely. But how does that drive this discussion? You must realize that the fact that the gangs control Chicago has zippo to do with whether it's o.k. for a white man to call a black man a , right? Zippo. And you don't get to decide that because black America has bigger problems than white men calling black men blacks they are not allowed to be offended by it.

I will make two last points and leave this discussion alone, as there is little more to be said. First, does anyone really think that Kaminsky was bothered by this even in the slightest? It would seem absurd to think that. The first time my son was called a on the courts, he was puzzled and surprised, but it never occured to him to be angry or bothered. Second, the next time that someone whines about how the left wing media only covers whites calling blacks blacks and not vice versa, please remember how much publicity this silly statement got before having the chutzpah to hit us with that drivel.

I'm getting to more important things. Others can carry this on or not.

simple.......let's start with friends.......good friends.........long time friends........the black friend calls his white friend a certain word. the white friend responds in kind or says more broadly....we are all ******.

The point is it becomes insoluble and infinite to make arguments on context & meaning. I can argue hate speech almost anywhere I want to look for every ethnicity on earth. I am no WASP or typical privileged white person either- there are certain words that can be cutting to me & my family. It is what it is ....humans can be cruel & terrible. But words are not actions. Now I am not arguing for the free liberal use of words that are volatile. You do not cry 'fire' in a crowded theater and I would argue certain words come close to exciting a flashing red response. Depending upon a context I can see myself seeing 'red' if someone used a certain word with me that carries a lot of connotation. I honestly get that and agree with you there. But if a student is making inappropriate statements...they are not chiefs of police or college deans or judges or biz leaders. They are students...some corrective action needs to be applied. To be a student is to be a semi-knucklehead. Unless the context is clear that harm was meant to be conveyed ...then I think one has a teaching moment ....not an expulsion determination which seems to have happened of late for unknowing white kids tumbling into this historical firepit. That is my overall comment in the context of Harrison

 

[Kembacity]

Why should be be able to say that and not face any consequences. A white kid would be pilloried in the press and media.

The same reason Larry David can make a joke and drop a hard "Jew" in it and get away with it but if Mel Gibson said the same he'd be ripped apart.

If you have a problem in your life with the fact that "Black people can use that phrase and I cant", just go swallow a gun, because this shouldn't be a concern in your life.

 

[ekiemeno]

I just wanted to +1 this since it didn't get enough attention. Also, the title of this thread should end with n***a. In the black community the "er" version is not said to each other. But that doesn't make it right for it's usage.

 

[BlueMAB]

I'd like to know why some Latinos started thinking it's acceptable to use the word.

 

[8893]

The same reason Larry David can make a joke and drop a hard "Jew" in it and get away with it but if Mel Gibson said the same he'd be ripped apart.

If you have a problem in your life with the fact that "Black people can use that phrase and I cant", just go swallow a gun, because this shouldn't be a concern in your life.

And here's what happens when Larry David uses the n-word:

 

[Leebo]

I don't understand why people would think they have the right to tell historically oppressed groups they don't have the right to reclaim slurs if that's how those groups want to process that particular form of bigotry.

 

[Kembacity]

I am actually in an argument about this with a friend. She thinks that the "White man" has oppressed the "black man" and used the word to put them down, and now they are reclaiming the word for themselves and therefore can use it whenever. I disagree... if one group of people cannot use the word then no group of people can use the word. Had it been a white guy who said this there would have been a riot. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would be leading the cause. But because it was the other way around there is no harm no foul? The rules need to be the same for everyone.

Your use of the word 'can' is problematic to me. There's freedom of speech, so obviously everyone CAN use the word, it just says something about them if they do. and it says something much worse if its a non-black person saying it. I will say that if black people want the term to be lost and forgotten, black people definitely SHOULD stop saying it or at least greatly reduce the use, stop using it so much in rap music, because obviously white people like rap music, and its awkward at a rap show hearing throngs of white people cheering the N word as a song lyric.

I think its perfectly fine for a person of any color to say that people should stop saying the word, but don't use can/can't, because thats a bit much. Reducing the overall use of the word should cut down on the ignorant old whities saying "well if theyre gonna say it, then I can say it!", which is completely ridiculous

 

[dogfan96]

The same reason Larry David can make a joke and drop a hard "Jew" in it and get away with it but if Mel Gibson said the same he'd be ripped apart.

If you have a problem in your life with the fact that "Black people can use that phrase and I cant", just go swallow a gun, because this shouldn't be a concern in your life.

Exactly right .. of all the double standards in this country (inferior schools/job opportunities in predominantly black neighbors, lower pay for equal work, job candidates being passed over bc they have "black-sounding" names, being racially profiled by police and business owners who think you're gonna steal something, can't get a cab), THAT'S the one he's worried about? If the fact that you can't call black people that means THAT much to him.. I will trade all of the above with him right now and give him unilateral permission to use that word... and I'm pretty sure I could get every black person I know on board with it

 

[noeynox]

I'd like to know why some Latinos started thinking it's acceptable to use the word.

It's not. However growing up, black kids called us it and we them and there were never any issues. It was usually in the context of ni!@ you crazy if you think Pippen is better than Jordan. I'm talking like 13-14, growing up together together since elementary school. Taking the same busses etc. As you got older you realized you shouldn't use it all.

 

[Inyatkin]

Kaminsky to Harrison: "Which one are you again?"

 

[BlueMAB]

I don't understand why people would think they have the right to tell historically oppressed groups they don't have the right to reclaim slurs if that's how those groups want to process that particular form of bigotry.

I agree with this point.

But I don't get why people argue that the word is somehow redefined. Somehow less hateful. Sure, it can be used between friends. But it's still used between strangers as a sign of disrespect. It doesn't matter what color Kaminsky is in this regard. Harrison was trying to disrespect him. If he said it about Shabazz after last year, it would have the same meaning of disrespect.

If we're going to, as a culture/country, try to stop gay-shaming, fat-shaming, "special-needs" shaming, bullying, etc. Then why set a standard that forgives a black man for calling another person a "nigga" just because "he is one too". That's what people making that argument are saying. If one argues it's okay for all blacks to use that word against other blacks. They are saying it's okay because they're black, but what that means is that "it's okay because they're niggas/blacks". (I'm not arguing they are literally saying that). Otherwise they wouldn't make the argument that Larry David can use slurs against Jews because he is one. Well I might be black, but that doesn't make me a "", right? So if I'm not one, why should I be forgiven to use that word against another black person? Particularly if it is used in a disrespectful manner. People should be careful about arguing that blacks should be forgiven for using that word against blacks, because the unintended implication is that we're still just N------.

I don't care about any double standard, perceived or real. I don't think the word should be used as often as it is in black America because it is still destructive.