Amore: Crumbling Connecticut Foundation? Kevin Ollie Under Scrutiny With UConn Men

[whaler11]

Stop sugarcoating things, tell us how you really feel.

Christ I've got people attacking me for using his term 'dope' and then I've got him attacking me not knowing they are actually attacking him.

This is after reading how the program is on life support because Ollie got divorced. Super - who knew 3 decades of greatness was so easy to flush down the toilet.

 

[intlzncster]

In comparison with Clyde Vaughn, Miller has always seemed a mediocre big man coach. When Clyde was here all the big men developed rapidly. Under Miller, including during the Calhoun years, it was a 50-50 thing. Some developed, some didn't

Sorry no he wouldn't have. Clyde maybe a little but nope you're wrong. The guy was clueless, this one's not on the staff.

He ws quoting mau calling him a dope. What were we talking about again? As an aside, how long did the legendary Clyde Vaughn actually coach here? His legend grows with every thread.

If there is ONE thing chief has been unbelievably successful on this board with, it is this: the myth of Clyde Vaughn.

The guy was here for ONLY TWO years! Barely enough for one recruiting class to come. Barely. Coached a few guys down low for a couple years. That's it.

If he was that good, he would have jobs falling over his lap. But he doesn't currently coach MCBB. There are soooo many coaches with worse things happening background-wise who still have and get big time jobs.

I'm very confident in the fact that UCONN's record would look exactly the same were he never to have been a coach here*. And this is someone who likes Clyde and would welcome him back.

*yes I know you change one thing in the past and everything else after is different yada yada yada

 

[pj]

If there is ONE thing chief has been unbelievably successful on this board with, it is this: the myth of Clyde Vaughn.

The guy was here for ONLY TWO years! Barely enough for one recruiting class to come. Barely. Coached a few guys down low for a couple years. That's it.

If he was that good, he would have jobs falling over his lap. But he doesn't currently coach MCBB. There are soooo many coaches with worse things happening background-wise who still have and get big time jobs.

I'm very confident in the fact that UConn's record would look exactly the same were he never to have been a coach here*. And this is someone who likes Clyde and would welcome him back.

*yes I know you change one thing in the past and everything else after is different yada yada yada

I remember those years vividly. They were our best two years of big man development, ever. I was really disappointed when we lost Clyde.

 

[intlzncster]

I remember those years vividly. They were our best two years of big man development, ever. I was really disappointed when we lost Clyde.

Lmao. This is looking at it through a one way lens, with absolutely zero nuance. If you remembered them vividly, you would know it didn't really have as much to do with 'development' as it did with having thoroughbreds coming in. You are making the same mistake a bunch of people are doing with this current group of guys.

In 03, the only good Big was Emeka, and that wasn't Clyde's doing because he was already good. I'm sure Clyde helped. Marcus White was OK, but he ended up leaving anyway. Mike Hayes was OK as a senior.

In 04, they got Boone and Charlie V. Two highly rated guys. I think Charlie was even ranked 2 or 3 coming out. Of course they are going to look good. Hilty didn't develop at all that year so that is what it is there; didn't develop until after Clyde left.

Funny how that works. Emeka was developing if Charlie Brown coached him. Why didn't Clyde turn Justin Brown into a stud???

You're conflating player development and natural talent. Give UCONN of the last two years Emeka, Charlie V, and Boone...and we are having a totally different conversation.

And to take it further, amazing how we had a bunch of other good bigs develop, even after Clyde left. Guys like Jeff Adrien, Gavin Edwards and HT. Thabeet made one of the biggest jumps I've seen in the post.

Common thread? Jim Calhoun.

 

[ctchamps]

You're right, it's just like the old Calhoun days. Nothing is different.

Quite frankly as an individual who completely summarized the position of a poster in this thread I must reply to this.

Confirmed!!!!!

 

[ctchamps]

If there is ONE thing chief has been unbelievably successful on this board with, it is this: the myth of Clyde Vaughn.

The guy was here for ONLY TWO years! Barely enough for one recruiting class to come. Barely. Coached a few guys down low for a couple years. That's it.

If he was that good, he would have jobs falling over his lap. But he doesn't currently coach MCBB. There are soooo many coaches with worse things happening background-wise who still have and get big time jobs.

I'm very confident in the fact that UConn's record would look exactly the same were he never to have been a coach here*. And this is someone who likes Clyde and would welcome him back.

*yes I know you change one thing in the past and everything else after is different yada yada yada

And here I am not worried about losing an X's and O's guy because all he could do was have the team play a zone. Don't do this to me intlzncster.

 

[tzznandrew]

I gotta say that I'm pretty tired of hearing about Ollie's divorce. If he can't handle his personal life to the point where we are looking at this tire fire he should have resigned.

People were justifiably irritated when people started bringing up his divorce. Part of that is because we want to keep people's private lives private. Part of it is because divorces suck, but they happen, and professionals keep on going in the face of that suckiness.

By and large I've been resistant to the divorce being a problem because of the latter. If the divorce IS a problem, then we're in deeper trouble than I've thought.

 

[ctchamps]

People were justifiably irritated when people started bringing up his divorce. Part of that is because we want to keep people's private lives private. Part of it is because divorces suck, but they happen, and professionals keep on going in the face of that suckiness.

By and large I've been resistant to the divorce being a problem because of the latter. If the divorce IS a problem, and then we're in deeper trouble than I've thought.

I was one of those people who originally brought it up. And for the reasons you pointed out in your first paragraph, I felt uncomfortable doing it and quickly refrained from continuing to comment on it.

But it has bothered me ever since. Suffice it to say if was a factor that has led up to recent events we have to hope KO can move past it.

 

[whaler11]

People were justifiably irritated when people started bringing up his divorce. Part of that is because we want to keep people's private lives private. Part of it is because divorces suck, but they happen, and professionals keep on going in the face of that suckiness.

By and large I've been resistant to the divorce being a problem because of the latter. If the divorce IS a problem, then we're in deeper trouble than I've thought.

It's fine for a period of time. It can't be an issue forever. The biggest hardship with divorce is money when the kids are grown - that isn't an issue here.

 

[willie99]

You're right, it's just like the old Calhoun days. Nothing is different.

no you're right, it's over, the world is crumbling, run for the hills, we have no chance oh the horror, the catastrophe

how many times can people jump on and off the bandwagon?

I never have, served me well, still batting 1,000, how about you?

 

[willie99]

we can actually take our doom and gloomers back to the late 1990's

does anyone remember the "Calhoun can't win the big game" mantra? No, I'm not joking, it was real

They appreciated what he did for the program, but it may be time to find a coach that could take us to the next level

I'm sorry, you're just going to have to forgive me for my optimism. I'm sure the doom and gloom crowd may be right some day, one day, who knows, forever is a long time, but not just yet

Our program has earned more respect than many are giving, especially from their own fans

 

[SouthBayHusky]

no you're right, it's over, the world is crumbling, run for the hills, we have no chance oh the horror, the catastrophe

how many times can people jump on and off the bandwagon?

I never have, served me well, still batting 1,000, how about you?

You a funny dude

 

[Huskybass]

no you're right, it's over, the world is crumbling, run for the hills, we have no chance oh the horror, the catastrophe

how many times can people jump on and off the bandwagon?

I never have, served me well, still batting 1,000, how about you?

Currently you are batting .000 if you are hugging the Titanic.

 

[Towney007]

Eh, I hate getting into a staff vs. the players thing - because I think at the end of the day it's kind of moot... BUT - it's kind of hard to really avoid putting things on the coaching staff.

-The whole miscalculation on recruits isn't new. This has been a few years of this, now.
-The same problems manifest themselves in different iterations every year.
-The problems stay the same while the cast is changing.
-The number of transfers keeps bubbling up and up.
-Now you've got people who feel so compelled to say something, that they're slagging Ollie as anonymous sources

I mean the bad luck is not lost on me. Gilbert and Larrier were more or less freak things. They've also had some significant obstacles thrown in front of them that have muddied the water. But what i see ON THE COURT - it's just the same. I really, really think the writing's on the wall right now. Ollie's got this season to right the ship. If he doesn't, he's 1,000% gone. Not a little - COMPLETELY gone. Just watching how all the pieces are getting more or less shifted around, this just has 'setting up the scaffold' written all over it.

I'm rooting for the guy pretty hard. I'm just not confident he can really deliver at the level the school wants. '14 was a really, really fun run - but that aside? It's not good.

 

[intlzncster]

Ollie's got this season to right the ship. If he doesn't, he's 1,000% gone. Not a little - COMPLETELY gone. Just watching how all the pieces are getting more or less shifted around, this just has 'setting up the scaffold' written all over it.

Depends what you mean by 'right the ship'. His contract says he won't be fired. It will very, very hard to convince the University to do this.

 

[Towney007]

Depends what you mean by 'right the ship'.

Forward progress. An NCAA appearance. Maybe an NIT run saves his bacon. But not being in the post season is just... so unacceptable on so many levels.

It will very, very hard to convince the University to do this.

It will also be very hard to convince the University to keep lighting $3 million+ a year on someone who's actively damaging and diminishing the value of one of your significant revenue programs.

$3 million's a drop in the bucket when you look at the bigger picture. He'll be gone.

 

[intlzncster]

$3 million's a drop in the bucket when you look at the bigger picture. He'll be gone.

It would be 3 million plus whatever they had to pay for the next coach. Likely 2-3 just to get anyone good to come to this place. That's 5-6 million to the HBB coach. For CT, that's not a drop in the bucket at all.

 

[Towney007]

It would be 3 million plus whatever they had to pay for the next coach. Likely 2-3 just to get anyone good to come to this place. That's 5-6 million to the HBB coach. For CT, that's not a drop in the bucket at all.

Right and compared to what they could potentially lose by not swallowing the pill? That's a drop in the bucket.

 

[intlzncster]

Right and compared to what they could potentially lose by not swallowing the pill? That's a drop in the bucket.

Not for the state budget. There's concerns that trump athletics here, which is what I'm referring to.

 

[Towney007]

Sure are. When you make bad decisions, it tends to be really expensive.

 

[willie99]

Kevin Ollie has been a head coach for 5 years, with almost no assistant coaching experience

Jim Calhoun was a 500 coach at NORTHEASTERN in his 1st 5 years, no indication at all what was to follow

Coach K was 73-59 at ARMY, then started 38-47 after 3 years at Dook. 8 years in, he was 111-106

Dean Smith was 66-47 after 5 years, 15-9 and 16-11 in years 4 and 5


Now I'm not saying Ollie is going to be an all-time great, so don't go stupid on me. What I am saying is that history has proven time and time again that even the great ones take a few years to find their sea legs.

IMO, unless next year is a complete disaster, which I think the opposite is more likely, then Ollie has at least two more years and probably through 2020 (one year before the end of his contract if they choose to not renew it)

Again, I don't think we'll ever see that happen, I think he'll be here as long as he chooses

 

[Huskybass]

Kevin Ollie has been a head coach for 5 years, with almost no assistant coaching experience

Jim Calhoun was a 500 coach at NORTHEASTERN in his 1st 5 years, no indication at all what was to follow

Coach K was 73-59 at ARMY, then started 38-47 after 3 years at Dook. 8 years in, he was 111-106

Dean Smith was 66-47 after 5 years, 15-9 and 16-11 in years 4 and 5


Now I'm not saying Ollie is going to be an all-time great, so don't go stupid on me. What I am saying is that history has proven time and time again that even the great ones take a few years to find their sea legs.

IMO, unless next year is a complete disaster, which I think the opposite is more likely, then Ollie has at least two more years and probably through 2020 (one year before the end of his contract if they choose to not renew it)

Again, I don't think we'll ever see that happen, I think he'll be here as long as he chooses

So you think that next season is going to be really good despite only having 2 healthy returning players and not a minute of D1 experience at power forward or center? Brilliant.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Please stop comparing Ollie to the hall of fame coach who built this program. If Calhoun was our head coach right now, we'd all feel confident he'd turn it around. Kevin Ollie is not Jim Calhoun, not many will ever come close to what he did, and Ollie certainly is not trending in that direction since 2014.

 

[tzznandrew]

Please stop comparing Ollie to the hall of fame coach who built this program. If Calhoun was our head coach right now, we'd all feel confident he'd turn it around. Kevin Ollie is not Jim Calhoun, not many will ever come close to what he did, and Ollie certainly is not trending in that direction since 2014.

No, they wouldn't. Go back to posts from 2010 and 2012 to see how many people thought JC's time was up.

The reason that people are reflexively supporting KO--maybe more than he deserves--is that this board can't handle any adversity. Calhoun had a down year in 2007 with no post-season, and everyone said he couldn't reach kids anymore. We have a disappointing NIT season in 2010 and we need to get rid of him. It's cyclical, and makes some of this stuff feel like the boy who cried wolf.

Now, when some of the less hysterical members are concerned (and they are now), it's worth taking note.

 

[pj]

So you think that next season is going to be really good despite only having 2 healthy returning players and not a minute of D1 experience at power forward or center? Brilliant.

Stop this crap about 2 healthy returning players. Alterique is healthy and about to resume full-contact basketball. Larrier is healthy. Diarra has been cleared for full activity. Moreover the incoming players Polley, Carlton, Cobb, Anderson are healthy. Cobb has some D1 experience at center.

The glass is half-full and I understand that some may be dismayed that it is half-empty, but there's no basis for claiming it is empty and has a hole in the bottom.

 

[Huskyforlife]

No, they wouldn't. Go back to posts from 2010 and 2012 to see how many people thought JC's time was up.

The reason that people are reflexively supporting KO--maybe more than he deserves--is that this board can't handle any adversity. Calhoun had a down year in 2007 with no post-season, and everyone said he couldn't reach kids anymore. We have a disappointing NIT season in 2010 and we need to get rid of him. It's cyclical, and makes some of this stuff feel like the boy who cried wolf.

Now, when some of the less hysterical members are concerned (and they are now), it's worth taking note.

Calhoun gave people much more reason to believe in 2007. He was an established hall of fame coach, who nobody could argue was going anywhere. That's not Kevin Ollie.

 

[CTBasketball]

Kevin Ollie has been a head coach for 5 years, with almost no assistant coaching experience

Jim Calhoun was a 500 coach at NORTHEASTERN in his 1st 5 years, no indication at all what was to follow

Coach K was 73-59 at ARMY, then started 38-47 after 3 years at Dook. 8 years in, he was 111-106

Dean Smith was 66-47 after 5 years, 15-9 and 16-11 in years 4 and 5


Now I'm not saying Ollie is going to be an all-time great, so don't go stupid on me. What I am saying is that history has proven time and time again that even the great ones take a few years to find their sea legs.

IMO, unless next year is a complete disaster, which I think the opposite is more likely, then Ollie has at least two more years and probably through 2020 (one year before the end of his contract if they choose to not renew it)

Again, I don't think we'll ever see that happen, I think he'll be here as long as he chooses

This is just a really confusing post.

First off its unfair to compare him to these guys. For every Coach K, Calhoun, and Dean Smith there are a hundred Mike Davis's, Tom Crean's, Billy Gillispie's, Walt Hazzard's, John Thompson III's, etc. The list goes on. There's like a 75% better chance he joins the likes of the Crean and Davis, just hopping jobs every 5-6 years. Sometimes they never "find" their sea legs.

If Ollie doesn't right the ship in a big way, he will be out of here by 2019. The clock has already started and he needs to win big to set it back.

 

[tzznandrew]

Calhoun gave people much more reason to believe in 2007. He was an established hall of fame coach, who nobody could argue was going anywhere. That's not Kevin Ollie.

Sure. I'm telling you that I was here (or wherever this site was then), and the facts you point out didn't matter to people in 2007, 2010, or 2012. I promise you that, and anyone who has stuck around the site will CON_I_M it for you. Bobby Knight lost it and never got it back, right? That's the way it is sometimes with older coaches, so while I think people were dumb, they certainly felt justified.

I think KO has given people reasons to believe he can turn it around. He's won a title; he's persevered in the face of immense odds (his NBA career, 2013); the school is finally through the recruiting sanctions, and might finally be able to get its legs back. But he has work to do.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Sure. I'm telling you that I was here (or wherever this site was then), and the facts you point out didn't matter to people in 2007, 2010, or 2012. I promise you that, and anyone who has stuck around the site will CON_I_M it for you. Bobby Knight lost it and never got it back, right? That's the way it is sometimes with older coaches, so while I think people were dumb, they certainly felt justified.

I think KO has given people reasons to believe he can turn it around. He's won a title; he's persevered in the face of immense odds (his NBA career, 2013); the school is finally through the recruiting sanctions, and might finally be able to get its legs back. But he has work to do.

I agree with everything you said. But Ollies resume does not compare to Calhouns in 2007. There is justifiable reasoning to suggest he shouldn't have the same leash with fans or management that Calhoun did.

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree with everything you said. But Ollies resume does not compare to Calhouns in 2007. There is justifiable reasoning to suggest he shouldn't have the same leash with fans or management that Calhoun did.

I agree on this entirely.