Amore: Crumbling Connecticut Foundation? Kevin Ollie Under Scrutiny With UConn Men

[intlzncster]

I was going to give your post a like and then I realized that I would be ruining the symmetry.

View attachment 21864

I just ruined it. Go for it now.

 

[intlzncster]

Just catching up on this thread. I agree that the art of coaching college basketball is not linear...but how long are you going to wait until he figures it out? With Belichick, he was a long time assistant who played a big part in multiple superbowl teams and was pretty highly thought of. Ollie had a couple years as a 2nd or 3rd assistant following a long NBA career.

Ollie showed some great things in his first few years. But winning with that inherited core and building a program with your own players are two very different things. I'm not in the 'fire' Ollie camp yet, but the damage done to these last few recruiting classes is going to be very difficult to overcome. Last season was a punt with the injuries, but having 4 players leave is pretty nuts.

Totally agree. Timing is the (huge) issue here. I don't think you can set a number on it. It's more what you see happen in the next year, two, and hopefully three. Chillious is going to be much more important going forward than I initially realized.

And I wasn't trying to compare BB to Ollie. Just using it as a simple example of what I was trying to say.

 

[Mots010]

Totally agree. Timing is the (huge) issue here. I don't think you can set a number on it. It's more what you see happen in the next year, two, and hopefully three. Chillious is going to be much more important going forward than I initially realized.

And I wasn't trying to compare BB to Ollie. Just using it as a simple example of what I was trying to say.

We probably want to drop the BB stuff before upstater shows up and sends us off the rails.

Chillious will be interesting. He needs to bring in some 2018 tuna, and round off 2017 with whatever is left.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Even with the injuries we could've won more than we did last year. Then firing your associate head coach, who is praised by Calhoun as a great Xs and O guy, and hiring someone who seems redundant based on Ollies perceived skill(recruiting), seems like an odd move. I'm not sure where this program is going, but I'm looking for reasons to believe next season will be different, somebody help me.

Also the guy making 3(?) million a year is responsible for everything that happens, the good and bad. Blaming the kids who bust their butts, who must go forward with whatever they're told to do, is simply wrong and unfair to them.

 

[Mr. French]

I don't think the AD was lying at all. The AD needs to publicly support the head coach during a tough period. That said, I am sure he has some concerns given that only 2 healthy players are returning and the recruiting class took a pretty big hit when MAL opted out.

Nah, I agree there's concern. I just think it was laid it out in way too dire a manner. I think AD has genuine concern, but not long term worrying about Ollie's leadership and direction of the program.

Essentially, I think that's the point all the "Ollie apologists" on the board try to make or the thinking they have.

No one thinks what's gone on, turmoil wise, is ok, or no big deal, or anything. Based on my feelings and how I've read those comments, they think it is concerning right now but that KO has the ability and makeup to turn around what happened recently, and with good explanation and reasoning.

Wasn't trying to call out any opinion, I just think sometimes there's too much contradictory and/or not mutually exclusive points being thrown at each other without recognizing the subtleties of the situation and the opposing point of view.

 

[Fishy]

I think you can set a number on it.

Even with the injuries we could've won more than we did last year. Then firing your associate head coach, who is praised by Calhoun as a great Xs and O guy, and hiring someone who seems redundant based on Ollies perceived skill(recruiting), seems like an odd move. I'm not sure where this program is going, but I'm looking for reasons to believe next season will be different, somebody help me.

Also the guy making 3(?) million a year is responsible for everything that happens, the good and bad. Blaming the kids who bust their butts, who must go forward with whatever they're told to do, is simply wrong and unfair to them.

I think the x and o mythology has to go out the window.

If Miller is some wizard of the chalk board, it has not been apparent for the past few seasons. Jim Calhoun is great, but let's not pretend that he isn't prone to hyperbole.

Ollie wanted Chillious last year, but couldn't make it work. After another season, he made the hard decision that he needed Chillious on staff and acted on it. And who's to say that Chillious is merely a recruiter? He was an associated head coach in the Pac 12 before coming here, so I'm guessing a lifetime in basketball has somehow rubbed off on him and he might know how to coach a little.

But I absolutely agree on the kids. People taking shots at the transferring players are off base - blame the generals, not the soldiers. They screwed this thing up.

 

[AntG168]

The fact that the AD felt it necessary to interview everyone associated with the basketball program speaks volumes. That sort of thing never happens when things are going well.

Well things werent going well. The real story that some of you wont acknowledge is he interviewed the players staying and leaving and came asay confident in Ollie. Whatever he heard in those interviews didnt cast aspersions on Ollie. How do you know jalen, CV, rodney and all the non transfers didnt back Ollie the meetings? Or maybe they told the AD that the guys leaving were cancers on the team. You dont know what was said in those exit meetings. But whatever was said has the AD backing Ollie...

 

[ctchamps]

What's is the AD supposed to say? "We have no big men who have ever played a minute of D1 basketball and all of the defections cause me real concern". ???

Of course the AD is going to try to put a positive spin on the situation.

I don't care what ADDave says. It's what he didn't do following his examination of the situation. He didn't fire KO. That says a lot.

I can't think of a better time for Benedict to fire KO than after what happened this postseason. He would have had cover for his decision and any fallout from additional players leaving would have been relatively minimal if those players returning didn't support KO. After the Diaco debacle I doubt very much AD Dave was likely to err on the side of a positive slant regarding KO. If Benedict evaluated things and was even debating the ability of KO to turn things around I can't possibly think that waiting one or two more years would help the program or his future career.

And I doubt strongly that Benedict gave KO a reprieve on the condition he hire Chillious. They may have conferred with one another about various decisions but if the AD is micromanaging a head coach instead of firing him, then I'd have no confidence in that AD.

The only compelling reason for Benedict not to fire KO immediately would be KO's contract and the impacts a firing would have on the athletic budget. But if he undertook the degree of evaluation he claims with no intent of removing KO if the findings deemed necessary the university is in big trouble, both financially and from a leadership standpoint.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I don't care what ADDave says. It's what he didn't do following his examination of the situation. He didn't fire KO. That says a lot.

I can't think of a better time for Benedict to fire KO than after what happened this postseason. He would have had cover for his decision and any fallout from additional players leaving would have been relatively minimal if those players returning didn't support KO. After the Diaco debacle I doubt very much AD Dave was likely to err on the side of a positive slant regarding KO. If Benedict evaluated things and was even debating the ability of KO to turn things around I can't possibly think that waiting one or two more years would help the program or his future career.

And I doubt strongly that Benedict gave KO a reprieve on the condition he hire Chillious. They may have conferred with one another about various decisions but if the AD is micromanaging a head coach instead of firing him, then I'd have no confidence in that AD.

The only compelling reason for Benedict not to fire KO immediately would be KO's contract and the impacts a firing would have on the athletic budget. But if he undertook the degree of evaluation he claims with no intent of removing KO if the findings deemed necessary the university is in big trouble, both financially and from a leadership standpoint.

The parts of the article that stuck out to me were the points about recruiting "UConn" type players. AD Dave agreed with Ollie's assessment that the players weren't fully committed to the program. Those exit interviews allowed AD Dave to make his own assessment. Solution? Do a better job vetting players before they sign the LOI. And that point was also pointed out in the article.

 

[UConnDan97]

Put me on record as someone that thinks that UConn is going to have a very good year next year. I think the nucleus is very good, and I think that we are going to play a tougher brand of basketball next year. UConn basketball. We will be in the NCAA tourney next year and we are going to make some noise.

Now that I've gone on record, let all the boo-birds rain down on me for the next 7 months or so until I'm proven right...

 

[ctchamps]

The parts of the article that stuck out to me were the points about recruiting "UConn" type players. AD Dave agreed with Ollie's assessment that the players weren't fully committed to the program. Those exit interviews allowed AD Dave to make his own assessment. Solution? Do a better job vetting players before they sign the LOI. And that point was also pointed out in the article.

It's hard to know everything from an article because reporters aren't stenographers and the people offering information can't tell us everything. But I've come to the same conclusion you have on this.

I don't feel it's necessary to blame the kids or the coaches. Mistakes were made on all sides and those mistakes were compounded by the season starting off badly plus the injuries. The important question is can people overcome their mistakes? I wish nothing but the best for players moving on. But from a fan standpoint I'm most concerned about KO's ability to grow.

KO must have received support from enough people in the program that kept Benedict from firing him and allow KO to demonstrate he can improve his vetting.

 

[tykurez]

The dude was legit set up to fail. He was picked by a Naismith hall of famer to take over for a club that a) was still under penalty for sanctions just years prior and b) was just left in the dust during conference realignment, relegated to a group of directional schools, has-beens and never-will-bes.

There is a delayed, lasting effect to both of those things that would make any coaches job exponentially harder. What's worse is their effects are delayed - so while the initial sting may be gone, the impacts have only recently been dealt ... and we're in year 5.

He finally gets a head of steam with recruiting, pulls in a top rated class, and has the rug pulled out from underneath. Cue the need for change (both with the program and individual players.) The timing of last year's circumstances couldn't have been worse.

So it confuses me when folks act like he was handed this silver platter of a program to ride off in to the sunset and isn't living up to their personal expectations. Has Ollie made mistakes? Absolutely. He's struggled to find roles and rhythms at times. But we've seen him perform with talented kids who have a desire to play for the team. We've seen him go up against hall of fame and future hall of fame coaches and beat them on the big stage. I want to see what he can do with a full deck again.

 

[AntG168]

Put me on record as someone that thinks that UConn is going to have a very good year next year. I think the nucleus is very good, and I think that we are going to play a tougher brand of basketball next year. UConn basketball. We will be in the NCAA tourney next year and we are going to make some noise.

Now that I've gone on record, let all the boo-birds rain down on me for the next 7 months or so until I'm proven right...

Call me crazy but i agree. We have talent, a bag of chips on our shoulder with no expectations. Thats a dangerous combo

 

[CTBasketball]

The dude was legit set up to fail. He was picked by a Naismith hall of famer to take over for a club that a) was still under penalty for sanctions just years prior and b) was just left in the dust during conference realignment, relegated to a group of directional schools, has-beens and never-will-bes.

There is a delayed, lasting effect to both of those things that would make any coaches job exponentially harder. What's worse is their effects are delayed - so while the initial sting may be gone, the impacts have only recently been dealt ... and we're in year 5.

He finally gets a head of steam with recruiting, pulls in a top rated class, and has the rug pulled out from underneath. Cue the need for change (both with the program and individual players.) The timing of last year's circumstances couldn't have been worse.

So it confuses me when folks act like he was handed this silver platter of a program to ride off in to the sunset and isn't living up to their personal expectations. Has Ollie made mistakes? Absolutely. He's struggled to find roles and rhythms at times. But we've seen him perform with talented kids who have a desire to play for the team. We've seen him go up against hall of fame and future hall of fame coaches and beat them on the big stage. I want to see what he can do with a full deck again.

I agree it was and is a tough job with immense pressure and expectations. But I believe it is difficult to say that and still look up at our banner from 2014.

 

[Huskyforlife]

My problem with the team going into next year, is we essentially lost a minimum of 20pts when Jackson and MAL left, plus whatever production Durham and Enoch would've brought. So far the only player we've added to supplement this production, is a kid who averaged 11pts at Fordham, and can't shoot.

Sure somebody might break out, but it was highly likely that somebody was going to be Durham or Enoch. I don't see anyone outside of the first four contributing much as a freshmen on the offensive end.

 

[AntG168]

My problem with the team going into next year, is we essentially lost a minimum of 20pts when Jackson and MAL left, plus whatever production Durham and Enoch would've brought. So far the only player we've added to supplement this production, is a kid who averaged 11pts at Fordham, and can't shoot.

Sure somebody might break out, but it was highly likely that somebody was going to be Durham or Enoch. I don't see anyone outside of the first four contributing much as a freshmen on the offensive end.

So you dont believe anderson can do what a freshman MAL wouldve and heres a little nugget, Makai couldnt shoot either. The truth of the matter is we dont know what he would've done if anything. Steve and Juwan were terrible last yr. I think we all expected improvment. But they werent going to do anything earth shattering. Based on what theyve done you shouldn't have expexted anymore out of them than cobb and carlton. Steve and Juwan showed VERY VERY little, let's acknowledge that. With vance there is no way around it losing him wad by far the biggest blow. Next yr was coming down to Jalen, Rique, and Terry wether those guys stayed or not(sans vance)

 

[TRest]

So you dont believe anderson can do what a freshman MAL wouldve and heres a little nugget, Makai couldnt shoot either. The truth of the matter is we dont know what he would've done if anything. Steve and Juwan were terrible last yr. I think we all expected improvment. But they werent going to do anything earth shattering. Based on what theyve done you shouldn't have expexted anymore out of them than cobb and carlton. Steve and Juwan showed VERY VERY little, let's acknowledge that. With vance there is no way around it losing him wad by far the biggest blow. Next yr was coming down to Jalen, Rique, and Terry wether those guys stayed or not(sans vance)

I believe Durham is going to be a player if his knees don't tear again. There is real talent there.

 

[Huskyforlife]

So you dont believe anderson can do what a freshman MAL wouldve and heres a little nugget, Makai couldnt shoot either. The truth of the matter is we dont know what he would've done if anything. Steve and Juwan were terrible last yr. I think we all expected improvment. But they werent going to do anything earth shattering. Based on what theyve done you shouldn't have expexted anymore out of them than cobb and carlton. Steve and Juwan showed VERY VERY little, let's acknowledge that. With vance there is no way around it losing him wad by far the biggest blow. Next yr was coming down to Jalen, Rique, and Terry wether those guys stayed or not(sans vance)

I think both our projected starting bigs leaving hurts way more than you're willing to admit. Anderson would be considered a solid 5th guard, Makai was considered a starting caliber backup, you can't ignore the difference in talent. Can Anderson do what freshman Makai would've done? Sure, but it's not likely.

 

[mdkhusky]

Anderson can certainly do what MAL would have done as a freshman

 

[GemParty]

We all want Ollie to succeed. UConn basketball & its legacy with fans would be unrecognizable without Calhoun's family tree. Look what happened to football. An outsider kept former players on the outside. We need the next few years to work. Or an era will end. My era of great memories.

With that said, how many programs have managed back/back HOF coaches? It's not normal. It's what made JC so special. I know State had Newell/Heathcote/Izzo. That's pretty rare. Izzo is entering his 22 season & I rarely bet against him in March. He has one title. He has recent nightmare upsets to boot.

Sports aren't scripted. Ollie can turn it around. Benedict isn't UConn. He's simply a temporary steward of the program. We need the family to figure it out. That's just my view.

 

[UConnDan97]

My problem with the team going into next year, is we essentially lost a minimum of 20pts when Jackson and MAL left, plus whatever production Durham and Enoch would've brought. So far the only player we've added to supplement this production, is a kid who averaged 11pts at Fordham, and can't shoot.

Sure somebody might break out, but it was highly likely that somebody was going to be Durham or Enoch. I don't see anyone outside of the first four contributing much as a freshmen on the offensive end.

So if we were to award MAL and Jackson 20 per night next year, then Larrier and Gilbert give us back 35. Larrier and Gilbert were almost certainly going to eat into the minutes that were needed to hit your projected 20 per night for Vance and MAL. Vance knew that, which is probably part of the reason he left. A healthy Larrier and Gilbert mean that Vital is the 3rd guard off the bench and Vance gets limited time because Larrier is better as a 3 than as a 4...

 

[Huskyforlife]

So if we were to award MAL and Jackson 20 per night next year, then Larrier and Gilbert give us back 35. Larrier and Gilbert were almost certainly going to eat into the minutes that were needed to hit your projected 20 per night for Vance and MAL. Vance knew that, which is probably part of the reason he left. A healthy Larrier and Gilbert mean that Vital is the 3rd guard off the bench and Vance gets limited time because Larrier is better as a 3 than as a 4...

I'm assuming they would've done that with the other players.

Adams-16
Larrier-13
Gilbert-12
Jackson-12
Vital-10
Makai-8

That's my expectation.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm assuming they would've done that with the other players.

Adams-16
Larrier-13
Gilbert-12
Jackson-12
Vital-10
Makai-8

That's my expectation.

But what you're saying is that Vance would have averaged 12 points in less than half the game, which is the amount of time he is likely to have if Larrier takes most of the minutes at the 3. And there is no way that Larrier and Vance have essentially the same amount of points with Larrier taking more minutes at the 3 than Vance. We can agree on that, right? Unless you think Vance would play some of the 4??? Because I don't think that he would, although I could be mistaken. That would be an undersized 4 position player...

 

[Huskyforlife]

But what you're saying is that Vance would have averaged 12 points in less than half the game, which is the amount of time he is likely to have if Larrier takes most of the minutes at the 3. And there is no way that Larrier and Vance have essentially the same amount of points with Larrier taking more minutes at the 3 than Vance. We can agree on that, right? Unless you think Vance would play some of the 4??? Because I don't think that he would, although I could be mistaken. That would be an undersized 4 position player...

Yes he'd play the four in this case. Durham and Enoch were "terrible," so it'd be necessary.

 

[AntG168]

I think both our projected starting bigs leaving hurts way more than you're willing to admit. Anderson would be considered a solid 5th guard, Makai was considered a starting caliber backup, you can't ignore the difference in talent. Can Anderson do what freshman Makai would've done? Sure, but it's not likely.

Thats an insanely ridiculous comment. One of two things are happening here. 1.) Your severely overeating a frshman mal OR 2.) Your underrating anderson. I tend to believe youbare overrating the scaltio out of makai. And with durham, potential is the most overrated attribute of a player. I take a big who can reb, be physical, and guard his position any day over a 6'10 bean pole, who shys away from contact, has fragile knees, little to no production, but has "potential".