Alyssa Thomas or Kaleena Lewis

[HuskyNan]

Proves she has poor decision making by going to ND. Baylor has the most renowned "Health, Human Performance and Recreation" program in the nation. She passed up that for a business degree from ND???!

Ha ha ha ha ha! Good one. If ND were a good school, it would be ranked higher than 19th nationally.

 

[arty155]

Ha ha ha ha ha! Good one. If ND were a good school, it would be ranked higher than 19th nationally.

“University of Notre Dame
Notre Dame, IN
The University of Notre Dame is a private, independent, Catholic institution in South Bend, Ind. Notre Dame’s athletic teams, known as the Fighting Irish, play in the NCAA Division I and are particularly competitive on the football field.” – US News & World Report

- I understand US News’ also projects the Republic of Texas as ‘particularly competitive’ for annexation from Mexico as a US state.

 

[HuskyNan]

“University of Notre Dame
Notre Dame, IN
The University of Notre Dame is a private, independent, Catholic institution in South Bend, Ind. Notre Dame’s athletic teams, known as the Fighting Irish, play in the NCAA Division I and are particularly competitive on the football field.” – US News & World Report

- I understand US News’ also projects the Republic of Texas as ‘particularly competitive’ for annexation from Mexico as a US state.

They taught me in Marketing class that Perception is Reality. ND is still perceived as a national power. That's why the UConn football Huskies celebrated their win over the woeful Fighting Irish like they'd won the Super Bowl.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Gray is a better playmaker then Diggins.... more of a pure point guard in my opinion. Diggins took way more shots than Gray did..... but I will give Diggins credit... for a Guard to shoot 50% from the field is qute impressive. Gray actually had more assists per game...... even on a team with less offensive firepower than ND.

I still contend that Diggins is a better playmaker (based on stats, as I haven't seen Gray play enough to analyze her through film). While Gray has more assists per game, she also plays more minutes per game, so when we adjust for assists/minute, her advantage is almost negated:

Gray: .189 assists/minute
Diggins: .185
Faris: .150
Sims: .135
Hartley: .111

But Diggins has a better assists to TO ratio, which I contend is the single best measure of a playmaker.

Diggins: 2.16
Faris: 2.11
Gray: 1.75
Sims: 1.65
Hartley: 1.42

You are correct in that Gray is very important to her team's offense, as her assists represented the highest contribution to any team (of those I examined):

Gray: 37%
Diggins: 31%
Sims: 24%
Faris: 23%
Hartley: 20%

A note about the UConn players: Bria was playing out of position last season, as she is more of a shooting guard that can handle the ball than a PG (IMO). When looking at the UConn stats, I noticed Faris's contributions and thought to include her as well. Kelly had an excellent assist/TO, in addition to what she brings on the defensive end and in pressure situations. Always been very impressed with Ms. Faris.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Now we have a ND v. Baylor v. Duke discussion on a UConn board.

Kindly wipe your feet when you enter.

 

[Icebear]

Now we have a ND v. Baylor v. Duke discussion on a UConn board.

It is indeed a bit fatiguing.

 

[UcMiami]

Back to the original discussion - I do think USA basketball is taking into account that these college kids are going to be playing against international pro players in most cases. This is a World Championship with no age restriction. Choosing an older Thomas over a younger KML is not surprising in a fairly even talent situation.
It will be interesting to see the make-up of the other teams - it is quite possible that many of the Olympic players could end up on the 3x3 teams. Scary to think of the US team going against an Aussie team with LJ and LC!!

 

[Fightin Choke]

It is indeed a bit fatiguing.

You actually do not need to read them. Isn't there a way to block me? And if my posts are inappropriate I'm sure the moderators will admonish me.

 

[HuskyNan]

Now we have a ND v. Baylor v. Duke discussion on a UConn board.

Well, let me throw the Huskies into the mix...

A note about the UConn players: Bria was playing out of position last season, as she is more of a shooting guard that can handle the ball than a PG (IMO). When looking at the UConn stats, I noticed Faris's contributions and thought to include her as well. Kelly had an excellent assist/TO, in addition to what she brings on the defensive end and in pressure situations. Always been very impressed with Ms. Faris.

You are mostly correct about Bria. You'll notice UConn had three players with 100+ assists; Kelly Faris (165), Bria Hartley (140) and Tiffany Hayes (126) which is mostly due to the type of offense that UConn runs. It's not unusual for Bria to start at the point then move to the 2 during the game with other players handling the ball. This is why Geno likes to recruit versatile players that he can move around on the court rather than strictly define someone as a point, a shooting guard, etc. It does make it harder for one player to rack up big stats, though.

 

[doggydaddy]

You actually do not need to read them. Isn't there a way to block me? And if my posts are inappropriate I'm sure the moderators will admonish me.

I didn't think "fatiguing" was that insulting.

 

[RadyLady]

Now we have a ND v. Baylor v. Duke discussion on a UConn board.

Kindly wipe your feet when you enter.

Welk, ever since Tennessee switched to a pay site, the Boneyard has become the friendly mecca for all thoughts WCBB

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk

 

[Icebear]

You actually do not need to read them. Isn't there a way to block me? And if my posts are inappropriate I'm sure the moderators will admonish me.

Just remember it is a UConn board not a general board and not an ND or Baylor board and we'll be fine.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

But Diggins has a better assists to TO ratio, which I contend is the single best measure of a playmaker.

Completely disagree. If that were the case, players like Debbie Black (in her later years) and Kelly Jolly would be considered great playmakers. They weren't. They were good faciliators of the ball. But they could not run a pick-and-roll or a pick-and-pop, and they could not create shots for themselves and others.

Having a lower A/TO ratio can also be a function of a player not taking risks or even attempting to read and dissect a tight defensive scheme. It says nothing about being "the single beast measure" of the overall ability to quarterback an offense.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Just remember it is a UConn board not a general board and not an ND or Baylor board and we'll be fine.

With all the off topic stuff on here you are complaining about a discussion that started with a UConn player, drifted to comparing players from other collegees, and returned to include UConn players? I am a very respectful fan of another team. I certainly have not flamed any other poster or dissed any UConn player, so I am confused why you and others find this discussion (and me) so distasteful. UConn basketball does not exist in a vacuum. There must be other teams for UConn to play, and the past few years, Baylor, Duke and Notre Dame have been among their top competitors. I do not understand why one cannot discuss these teams in the setting of a UConn board.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Completely disagree. If that were the case, players like Debbie Black (in her later years) and Kelly Jolly would be considered great playmakers. They weren't. They were good faciliators of the ball. But they could not run a pick-and-roll or a pick-and-pop, and they could not create shots for themselves and others.

Having a lower A/TO ratio can also be a function of a player not taking risks or even attempting to read and dissect a tight defensive scheme. It says nothing about being "the single beast measure" of the overall ability to quarterback an offense.

Fair enough. But I said the assist to TO ratio was the single best statistical measure, not the only measure. Which single stat would be more precise? Diggins also had similar assists/minute and more scoring than Chelsea, although I do not how many of Diggins (or Gray's) points were pick and roll or pick and pop.

 

[Icebear]

With all the off topic stuff on here you are complaining about a discussion that started with a UConn player, drifted to comparing players from other collegees, and returned to include UConn players? I am a very respectful fan of another team. I certainly have not flamed any other poster or dissed any UConn player, so I am confused why you and others find this discussion (and me) so distasteful. UConn basketball does not exist in a vacuum. There must be other teams for UConn to play, and the past few years, Baylor, Duke and Notre Dame have been among their top competitors. I do not understand why one cannot discuss these teams in the setting of a UConn board.

My comment was not directed towards you. Simply a general trend. You are correct there are always other teams to play and those discussions are always welcome. You completely misread my intention.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Fair enough. But I said the assist to TO ratio was the single best statistical measure, not the only measure. Which single stat would be more precise? Diggins also had similar assists/minute and more scoring than Chelsea, although I do not how many of Diggins (or Gray's) points were pick and roll or pick and pop.

Use a formula.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...n.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?position=pg

 

[HuskyNan]

My comment was not directed towards you. Simply a general trend. You are correct there are always other teams to play and those discussions are always welcome. You completely misread my intention.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say to our visitors. This thread has been fine. In fact, this is more basketball chatter than we usually have during the summers. If you don't like the drift of a thread, don't read it.

 

[doggydaddy]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say to our visitors. This thread has been fine. In fact, this is more basketball chatter than we usually have during the summers. If you don't like the drift of a thread, don't read it.

Personally, I love it. Great and polite visitors and spirited discussions. Even ETT...lol.

 

[easttexastrash]

Personally, I love it. Great and polite visitors and spirited discussions. Even ETT...lol.

Thanks, DD. I feel the love.

I do think that at times we visitors need a reminder that it is a UCONN board. It is easy to forget that at times due to the variety of subjects and topics that are discussed. I am not sure that any other board would welcome the variety of viewpoints like the BY does. I have grown to depend on this board for stimulating converstations about women's basketball and other sporting events, such as Wimbledon.

 

[Icebear]

Thanks, DD. I feel the love.

I do think that at times we visitors need a reminder that it is a UCONN board. It is easy to forget that at times due to the variety of subjects and topics that are discussed. I am not sure that any other board would welcome the variety of viewpoints like the BY does. I have grown to depend on this board for stimulating converstations about women's basketball and other sporting events, such as Wimbledon.

That is all that was being suggested.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Whenever a fellow BoneYarder disagrees with me, especially with vituperative intent, the thread should automatically be shut down, thus controlling for the clustering of stupidity, rampant ignorance, general intellectual error, cognitive laziness, and incipient banality.

On my part, of course.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Fair enough. But I said the assist to TO ratio was the single best statistical measure, not the only measure. Which single stat would be more precise? Diggins also had similar assists/minute and more scoring than Chelsea, although I do not how many of Diggins (or Gray's) points were pick and roll or pick and pop.

Fightin Choke, in my previous post, I suggested the use of a formula as a statistical measure, specifically using Hollinger's PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...n.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?position=pg)

This formula measures the following statistics (though I think for purposes of this discussion, rebounding was not a focal point or an issue being addressed with respect to this particular thread/debate):

• True Shooting Percentage - what a player's shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = Total points / [(FGA + (0.44 x FTA)]
• Assist Ratio - the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an assist. Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
• Turnover Ratio - the percentage of a player's possessions that end in a turnover. Turnover Ratio = (Turnover x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
• Usage Rate - the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes. Usage Rate = {[FGA + (FT Att. x 0.44) + (Ast x 0.33) + TO] x 40 x League Pace} divided by (Minutes x Team Pace)
• Offensive rebound rate
• Defensive rebound rate
• Rebound Rate - the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Rebound Rate = (100 x (Rebounds x Team Minutes)) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]
• Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player's per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season.
• Value Added - the estimated number of points a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' (for instance, the 12th man on the roster) would produce. Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards
• Estimated Wins Added - Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' would produce.

But as to your questions regarding the "single best statistical measure" or which "single stat would be more precise," I do not believe that there is a single stat/statistical measure that can determine the best measure of a playmaker. For all the statistical analysis in the world, it does not replace the ability to watch a game and make an informed decision. The above-referenced formula is a great, comprensive measure (and really handy if someone wants to provide a link to support an argument as to whether Player A is better than Player B). But the formula, just like any other statistic, primarily takes account a player's actions (shot, rebound, assist, etc.) at a given point in time; it does not set forth what the other four players (outside of an assist) are doing on the court at the very moment.

For example, if Bria Hartley makes a direct pass to Kiah Stokes who finishes a layup, Hartley gets the assist while Stokes gets the made shot and the points. But I have yet to see a formula that would be able to tell me whether Hartley created the play off the dribble or of off receiving a pass herself, whether Hartley was in a traditional halfcourt set or if she was running a fast break, whether Hartley crossed-over her defender (or even if Hartley and/or Stokes were being defended) or simply threw the pass into the post, whether Hartley broke down her defender by herself or whether Stef Dolson set a hard screen for Hartley, etc.

So while you contend that looking at an assists-to-turnover ratio is "the single best measure of a playmaker," I do not believe this is a correct assessment based on the fact I do not believe there is such a thing as a "single best measure of a playmaker."

And, as a final point, look at the WNBA statistics right now. In the top ten in the league for assist-to-turnover ratio are the following people: Kalana Greene, Erin Thorn, Roneeka Hodges, Shameka Christon, and Tiffany Hayes (side note...congratulations to UConn for producing two non-point guards in the top ten). Are any of those five "playmakers?" None are. A few can create their own shots. But none of them are point guards, much less playmakers or quarterbacks of an offense. They simply do not turn the ball over that much, relative to the amount of assists that they accumulate.

 

[alexrgct]

Whenever a fellow BoneYarder disagrees with me, especially with vituperative intent, the thread should automatically be shut down, thus controlling for the clustering of stupidity, rampant ignorance, general intellectual error, cognitive laziness, and incipient banality.

On my part, of course.

I applaud your use of the word "vituperative" and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[HuskyNan]

I do think that at times we visitors need a reminder that it is a UCONN board. It is easy to forget that at times due to the variety of subjects and topics that are discussed. I am not sure that any other board would welcome the variety of viewpoints like the BY does. I have grown to depend on this board for stimulating converstations about women's basketball and other sporting events, such as Wimbledon.

Visitors are always welcome here. Biff, JS and I just ask that everyone - UConn and non-UConn fans alike - use civility when conversing. And don't trash our Coach or players (not that you have, ETT, just making a general statement).