Alyssa Thomas or Kaleena Lewis | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Alyssa Thomas or Kaleena Lewis

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rjp172 said:
Diggins also has plenty of "jewelry" representing her country that Sims will never have. Sims isn't nearly the passer that Diggins is either. Hell, she can't even seem to remember to get the ball to her non-stoppable center. She's a great defender and scorer but average play maker.

Since you haven't pulled any punches I'll go ahead and be as rude as you...Sims isn't as well liked by the girls that would be her teammate. There was a reason she was an outsider on the WUG team. There is a difference in the way they handle themselves and the way Sims has handled herself. Maybe it's maturity, maybe its passion or emotion but I've never seen any of the other four want to brawl on the court...that makes you a punk.

Diggins has won gold and captain the past to world teams she was on. She is a leader. We'll have to see if Sims has that quality.
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Two words: National Championship. I win.
 
rjp172 said:
Diggins also has plenty of "jewelry" representing her country that Sims will never have. Sims isn't nearly the passer that Diggins is either. Hell, she can't even seem to remember to get the ball to her non-stoppable center. She's a great defender and scorer but average play maker.

Since you haven't pulled any punches I'll go ahead and be as rude as you...Sims isn't as well liked by the girls that would be her teammate. There was a reason she was an outsider on the WUG team. There is a difference in the way they handle themselves and the way Sims has handled herself. Maybe it's maturity, maybe its passion or emotion but I've never seen any of the other four want to brawl on the court...that makes you a punk.

Diggins has won gold and captain the past to world teams she was on. She is a leader. We'll have to see if Sims has that quality.
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Let's compare head-to-head performance from 2012 in the two meetikngs. It's hard to say that Diggins is a better playmaker when Sims had more assists and fewer TOs.

Points
Diggins: 47
Sims: 44

Assists
Diggins: 6
Sims: 10

Turnovers
Diggins: 7
Sim: 4

Steals
Diggins: 3
Sims: 8

Rebounds
Diggins: 6
Sims: 7

If there is a congeniality contest or a make-up applying demonstration I'll take Diggins. If I want to win a basketball game, I'll take Sims.
 
Buzz Boy, you posted- "One is the singular go to person on her team and continually has the ball in her hands while KML is just one of the options in a pretty diversified team."

Did you look at each team's stats? Both Maryland and UConn had 4 players average double figures last season. Do I think UConn had better overall talent? Yes. But Maryland did have other legitimate scoring options.
 
Outside Shot said:
Buzz Boy, you posted- "One is the singular go to person on her team and continually has the ball in her hands while KML is just one of the options in a pretty diversified team."

Did you look at each team's stats? Both Maryland and UConn had 4 players average double figures last season. Do I think UConn had better overall talent? Yes. But Maryland did have other legitimate scoring options.
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I agree that Thomas was much more the focal point of her team's offense than KML was of hers. That is not to say that she is better, but I can't say that KML would be considered the go-to player like Thomas was at Maryland.
 
Again, if the argument is about who is the better player today based on stats and contributiion, it would be fairer to compare them as freshman and not one a sophomore and one a freshman. There is a huge jump from freshman to soph for most players.
 
doggy, I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. The question is who you would take on the 3 on 3 team right now. Right now, one is a sophomore and the other is a freshman. That's the current situation. That is all there is to compare.
 
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Outside Shot said:
doggy, I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. The question is who you would take on the 3 on 3 team right now. Right now, one is a sophomore and the other is a freshman. That's the current situation. That is all there is to compare.
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Agreed. This is about right now, not about comparing two players at the same points in their careers.
 
easttexastrash said:
Let's compare head-to-head performance from 2012 in the two meetikngs. It's hard to say that Diggins is a better playmaker when Sims had more assists and fewer TOs.

If there is a congeniality contest or a make-up applying demonstration I'll take Diggins. If I want to win a basketball game, I'll take Sims.
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Hard to say Diggins is a better playmaker than Sims? I can say it without any effort at all! ;) The evidence you cite is not that convincing, as Diggins had to face Griner and Sims did not. If you look at the whole season, Diggins numbers are simply better. Diggins had more assists (222 vs. 174) and slightly fewer turnovers (103 vs. 105). Isn't assist to turnover ratio a good metric for the playmaking ability of a PG? As for defense, Sims had more steals (118 vs. 102) but also committed more fouls in doing so (81 vs. 64), and Skylar had more blocks (19 vs. 2). Rebounds were basically equal (3.3 Diggins vs. 3.0 Sims). As a scorer, Diggins had more points (16.8 vs. 14.9) and higher FG% (50% vs. 45%), but Sims was better on 3-pts (40% vs. 36%) and FT (83% vs. 79%). As for the congeniality/make-up comment, I think we should limit our discussion to basketball skills.

As for Sims having a NC, she certainly trumps Diggins there. I'm sure Diggins would trade in her international accolades for a NCAA title. But remember that Sims didn't do it alone.
 
Outside Shot said:
doggy, I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. The question is who you would take on the 3 on 3 team right now. Right now, one is a sophomore and the other is a freshman. That's the current situation. That is all there is to compare.
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That may have been part of the question, but many posters are answering who is better based on last years stats.
 
Fightin Choke said:
Hard to say Diggins is a better playmaker than Sims? I can say it without any effort at all! ;) The evidence you cite is not that convincing, as Diggins had to face Griner and Sims did not. If you look at the whole season, Diggins numbers are simply better. Diggins had more assists (222 vs. 174) and slightly fewer turnovers (103 vs. 105). Isn't assist to turnover ratio a good metric for the playmaking ability of a PG? As for defense, Sims had more steals (118 vs. 102) but also committed more fouls in doing so (81 vs. 64), and Skylar had more blocks (19 vs. 2). Rebounds were basically equal (3.3 Diggins vs. 3.0 Sims). As a scorer, Diggins had more points (16.8 vs. 14.9) and higher FG% (50% vs. 45%), but Sims was better on 3-pts (40% vs. 36%) and FT (83% vs. 79%). As for the congeniality/make-up comment, I think we should limit our discussion to basketball skills.

As for Sims having a NC, she certainly trumps Diggins there. I'm sure Diggins would trade in her international accolades for a NCAA title. But remember that Sims didn't do it alone.
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Well judging by statistics..... can you make a case for Gray over Diggins and Sims?? :rolleyes:
 
Fightin Choke said:
Hard to say Diggins is a better playmaker than Sims? I can say it without any effort at all! ;) The evidence you cite is not that convincing, as Diggins had to face Griner and Sims did not. If you look at the whole season, Diggins numbers are simply better. Diggins had more assists (222 vs. 174) and slightly fewer turnovers (103 vs. 105). Isn't assist to turnover ratio a good metric for the playmaking ability of a PG? As for defense, Sims had more steals (118 vs. 102) but also committed more fouls in doing so (81 vs. 64), and Skylar had more blocks (19 vs. 2). Rebounds were basically equal (3.3 Diggins vs. 3.0 Sims). As a scorer, Diggins had more points (16.8 vs. 14.9) and higher FG% (50% vs. 45%), but Sims was better on 3-pts (40% vs. 36%) and FT (83% vs. 79%). As for the congeniality/make-up comment, I think we should limit our discussion to basketball skills.

As for Sims having a NC, she certainly trumps Diggins there. I'm sure Diggins would trade in her international accolades for a NCAA title. But remember that Sims didn't do it alone.
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Sims has something that stats don't reflect: toughness, heart and desire to win. I will take Sims any day of the week...and most likely win. She is, in my opinion, the toughest player in the nation. But, I am biased.
 
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easttexastrash said:
Sims has something that stats don't reflect: toughness, heart and desire to win. I will take Sims any day of the week...and most likely win. She is, in my opinion, the toughest player in the nation. But, I am biased.
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Fair enough. You cannot measure toughness. But Diggins is also tough. I don't know Sims well enough to make a comparison.
 
Diggins is a phenomenal player. Tremendous on offense. I think that she will struggle guarding opposing PGs at the next level. At least for a while.

A word that comes to mind for Sims is one that was used here to describe Maya's defensive presence: disruptive. She simply makes it hard for the opposing PG to run the offense.
 
Fightin Choke said:
Not unless rebounds are the most important stat! Diggins bests her in just about every stat:
http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/stats/2011-12/basketball-w/teamcume.htm
http://www.und.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2011-2012/teamcume.html
I love Gray though!
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Gray is a better playmaker then Diggins.... more of a pure point guard in my opinion. Diggins took way more shots than Gray did..... but I will give Diggins credit... for a Guard to shoot 50% from the field is qute impressive. Gray actually had more assists per game...... even on a team with less offensive firepower than ND.
 
Sims and Diggins are both amazing players, but let's be real: put Diggins on Baylor and Sims on ND, and the same team still wins the championship game.
 
bbsamjj said:
Sims and Diggins are both amazing players, but let's be real: put Diggins on Baylor and Sims on ND, and the same team still wins the championship game.
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Proves she has poor decision making by going to ND. Baylor has the most renowned "Health, Human Performance and Recreation" program in the nation. She passed up that for a business degree from ND???!
 
If we could get back to the Thomas vs. KML comparison, could anyone who knows Thomas better than I do tell me if I am right with my recollection that she is a much better open court (eg. Fast break) kind of player than in the half court? I recall one game where the Terps' opponent turned it into a half court game and Thomas was pretty ineffective.

If I am right, I'm thinking that KML would have been a much better choice, because she actually excels in the half court, since the 3x3 competition is strictly a half court deal.
 
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3 on 3 is halfcourt, but there is also a lot more space to operate thanks to four less players occupying the same space. I can see how Thomas would be very good in a 3 on 3 environment with the added space to operate 1 on 1, and why USA Basketball would take her over Kaleena.

speedoo said:
If we could get back to the Thomas vs. KML comparison, could anyone who knows Thomas better than I do tell me if I am right with my recollection that she is a much better open court (eg. Fast break) kind of player than in the half court? I recall one game where the Terps' opponent turned it into a half court game and Thomas was pretty ineffective.

If I am right, I'm thinking that KML would have been a much better choice, because she actually excels in the half court, since the 3x3 competition is strictly a half court deal.
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Scotter said:
3 on 3 is halfcourt, but there is also a lot more space to operate thanks to four less players occupying the same space. I can see how Thomas would be very good in a 3 on 3 environment with the added space to operate 1 on 1, and why USA Basketball would take her over Kaleena.
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good point.
 
HuskyNan said:
Ha ha ha ha ha! Good one. If ND were a good school, it would be ranked higher than 19th nationally.
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“University of Notre Dame
Notre Dame, IN
The University of Notre Dame is a private, independent, Catholic institution in South Bend, Ind. Notre Dame’s athletic teams, known as the Fighting Irish, play in the NCAA Division I and are particularly competitive on the football field.” – US News & World Report

- I understand US News’ also projects the Republic of Texas as ‘particularly competitive’ for annexation from Mexico as a US state.
 
arty155 said:
“University of Notre Dame
Notre Dame, IN
The University of Notre Dame is a private, independent, Catholic institution in South Bend, Ind. Notre Dame’s athletic teams, known as the Fighting Irish, play in the NCAA Division I and are particularly competitive on the football field.” – US News & World Report

- I understand US News’ also projects the Republic of Texas as ‘particularly competitive’ for annexation from Mexico as a US state.
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They taught me in Marketing class that Perception is Reality. ND is still perceived as a national power. That's why the UConn football Huskies celebrated their win over the woeful Fighting Irish like they'd won the Super Bowl.
 
triaddukefan said:
Gray is a better playmaker then Diggins.... more of a pure point guard in my opinion. Diggins took way more shots than Gray did..... but I will give Diggins credit... for a Guard to shoot 50% from the field is qute impressive. Gray actually had more assists per game...... even on a team with less offensive firepower than ND.
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I still contend that Diggins is a better playmaker (based on stats, as I haven't seen Gray play enough to analyze her through film). While Gray has more assists per game, she also plays more minutes per game, so when we adjust for assists/minute, her advantage is almost negated:

Gray: .189 assists/minute
Diggins: .185
Faris: .150
Sims: .135
Hartley: .111

But Diggins has a better assists to TO ratio, which I contend is the single best measure of a playmaker.

Diggins: 2.16
Faris: 2.11
Gray: 1.75
Sims: 1.65
Hartley: 1.42

You are correct in that Gray is very important to her team's offense, as her assists represented the highest contribution to any team (of those I examined):

Gray: 37%
Diggins: 31%
Sims: 24%
Faris: 23%
Hartley: 20%

A note about the UConn players: Bria was playing out of position last season, as she is more of a shooting guard that can handle the ball than a PG (IMO). When looking at the UConn stats, I noticed Faris's contributions and thought to include her as well. Kelly had an excellent assist/TO, in addition to what she brings on the defensive end and in pressure situations. Always been very impressed with Ms. Faris.
 
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Back to the original discussion - I do think USA basketball is taking into account that these college kids are going to be playing against international pro players in most cases. This is a World Championship with no age restriction. Choosing an older Thomas over a younger KML is not surprising in a fairly even talent situation.
It will be interesting to see the make-up of the other teams - it is quite possible that many of the Olympic players could end up on the 3x3 teams. Scary to think of the US team going against an Aussie team with LJ and LC!!
 
Icebear said:
It is indeed a bit fatiguing.
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You actually do not need to read them. Isn't there a way to block me? And if my posts are inappropriate I'm sure the moderators will admonish me.
 
MilfordHusky said:
Now we have a ND v. Baylor v. Duke discussion on a UConn board.
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Well, let me throw the Huskies into the mix...

Fightin Choke said:
A note about the UConn players: Bria was playing out of position last season, as she is more of a shooting guard that can handle the ball than a PG (IMO). When looking at the UConn stats, I noticed Faris's contributions and thought to include her as well. Kelly had an excellent assist/TO, in addition to what she brings on the defensive end and in pressure situations. Always been very impressed with Ms. Faris.
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You are mostly correct about Bria. You'll notice UConn had three players with 100+ assists; Kelly Faris (165), Bria Hartley (140) and Tiffany Hayes (126) which is mostly due to the type of offense that UConn runs. It's not unusual for Bria to start at the point then move to the 2 during the game with other players handling the ball. This is why Geno likes to recruit versatile players that he can move around on the court rather than strictly define someone as a point, a shooting guard, etc. It does make it harder for one player to rack up big stats, though.
 
Fightin Choke said:
You actually do not need to read them. Isn't there a way to block me? And if my posts are inappropriate I'm sure the moderators will admonish me.
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I didn't think "fatiguing" was that insulting.
 
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