Alyssa Thomas or Kaleena Lewis

[Fightin Choke]

I think that there are other considerations. One is the singular go to person on her team and continually has the ball in her hands while KML is just one of the options in a pretty diversified team. Her opportunities in UConn's offense are substantially less, in my view. As has been said, both are wonderfully talented players.

Her opportunities were almost equal to Thomas if you consider shot attempts. Thomas (504) had more than KLM (470), but not by much. Thomas shot a higher percentage (46% to 43% for KML), but she was closer to the basket as well (which also contributed to her large rebounding edge). Of course KML had some 3-pts thrown in, so that's a factor in her favor. But Alyssa got fouled more, so she had twice the FT attempts, which helps her scoring. So many factors to consider! And being the "go to player" is not usually a good thing for one's shooting percentage, as defenders will key on you. KML was blessed by having other viable options on her team. Again, they are both elite players, but I would have picked Thomas over KML and I have no dog in this fight.

As for doggydady's suggestion that it may not be fair to compare Alyssa's sophomore campaign to KML's freshman year, I absolutely believe it's fair given the context of the discussion. We are not discussing which player will have a better college career, but rather which player is better for the 3 on 3 tournament this year.

 

[Fightin Choke]

I was just going to post that....lol. About the fan fighting...!!!

Well, I would take Hartley over Simms, Diggins or Gray!!!!

And I would take Diggins, like most of the writers and coaches around the country. Diggins may be a national phenom because of her looks, but she's also a VERY good basketball player and an exceptionally hard worker who's an excellent teammate.

 

[doggydaddy]

And I would take Diggins, like most of the writers and coaches around the country. Diggins may be a national phenom because of her looks, but she's also a VERY good basketball player and an exceptionally hard worker who's an excellent teammate.

Yeah, and the writers are always right...lol.

I guess we will find out this year when Diggins is surrounded by newbies and not 2 fifth year seniors and another senior starter.

 

[doggydaddy]

Her opportunities were almost equal to Thomas if you consider shot attempts. Thomas (504) had more than KLM (470), but not by much. Thomas shot a higher percentage (46% to 43% for KML), but she was closer to the basket as well (which also contributed to her large rebounding edge). Of course KML had some 3-pts thrown in, so that's a factor in her favor. But Alyssa got fouled more, so she had twice the FT attempts, which helps her scoring. So many factors to consider! And being the "go to player" is not usually a good thing for one's shooting percentage, as defenders will key on you. KML was blessed by having other viable options on her team. Again, they are both elite players, but I would have picked Thomas over KML and I have no dog in this fight.

As for doggydady's suggestion that it may not be fair to compare Alyssa's sophomore campaign to KML's freshman year, I absolutely believe it's fair given the context of the discussion. We are not discussing which player will have a better college career, but rather which player is better for the 3 on 3 tournament this year.

I missed the 3-3 criteria when discussing the two players.

You need to add in the 12% factor in minutes when you are discussing the stats and you can't ignore the SOS .

 

[MilfordHusky]

Thomas played 31.9 MPG. Lewis played 28.2 MPG.

So, about 4 minutes per game more.

To me, it's more about the SOS, where Maryland played a 13th ranked SOS and Uconn was 3rd.

And how about comparing their freshman seasons? Wouldn't that be more accurate? The minutes are closer, Lewis scored a little more, rebounds are closer, assists were closer.

It's all besides the point though. Both are amazing players.

Thomas was the focal point of the Maryland offense. If she didn't come through, they were likely to lose. Kaleena was not always the #1 option.

 

[easttexastrash]

Diggins also has plenty of "jewelry" representing her country that Sims will never have. Sims isn't nearly the passer that Diggins is either. Hell, she can't even seem to remember to get the ball to her non-stoppable center. She's a great defender and scorer but average play maker.

Since you haven't pulled any punches I'll go ahead and be as rude as you...Sims isn't as well liked by the girls that would be her teammate. There was a reason she was an outsider on the WUG team. There is a difference in the way they handle themselves and the way Sims has handled herself. Maybe it's maturity, maybe its passion or emotion but I've never seen any of the other four want to brawl on the court...that makes you a punk.

Diggins has won gold and captain the past to world teams she was on. She is a leader. We'll have to see if Sims has that quality.

Two words: National Championship. I win.

 

[easttexastrash]

Diggins also has plenty of "jewelry" representing her country that Sims will never have. Sims isn't nearly the passer that Diggins is either. Hell, she can't even seem to remember to get the ball to her non-stoppable center. She's a great defender and scorer but average play maker.

Since you haven't pulled any punches I'll go ahead and be as rude as you...Sims isn't as well liked by the girls that would be her teammate. There was a reason she was an outsider on the WUG team. There is a difference in the way they handle themselves and the way Sims has handled herself. Maybe it's maturity, maybe its passion or emotion but I've never seen any of the other four want to brawl on the court...that makes you a punk.

Diggins has won gold and captain the past to world teams she was on. She is a leader. We'll have to see if Sims has that quality.

Let's compare head-to-head performance from 2012 in the two meetikngs. It's hard to say that Diggins is a better playmaker when Sims had more assists and fewer TOs.

Points
Diggins: 47
Sims: 44

Assists
Diggins: 6
Sims: 10

Turnovers
Diggins: 7
Sim: 4

Steals
Diggins: 3
Sims: 8

Rebounds
Diggins: 6
Sims: 7

If there is a congeniality contest or a make-up applying demonstration I'll take Diggins. If I want to win a basketball game, I'll take Sims.

 

[Outside Shot]

Buzz Boy, you posted- "One is the singular go to person on her team and continually has the ball in her hands while KML is just one of the options in a pretty diversified team."

Did you look at each team's stats? Both Maryland and UConn had 4 players average double figures last season. Do I think UConn had better overall talent? Yes. But Maryland did have other legitimate scoring options.

 

[easttexastrash]

Buzz Boy, you posted- "One is the singular go to person on her team and continually has the ball in her hands while KML is just one of the options in a pretty diversified team."

Did you look at each team's stats? Both Maryland and UConn had 4 players average double figures last season. Do I think UConn had better overall talent? Yes. But Maryland did have other legitimate scoring options.

I agree that Thomas was much more the focal point of her team's offense than KML was of hers. That is not to say that she is better, but I can't say that KML would be considered the go-to player like Thomas was at Maryland.

 

[doggydaddy]

Again, if the argument is about who is the better player today based on stats and contributiion, it would be fairer to compare them as freshman and not one a sophomore and one a freshman. There is a huge jump from freshman to soph for most players.

 

[Outside Shot]

doggy, I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. The question is who you would take on the 3 on 3 team right now. Right now, one is a sophomore and the other is a freshman. That's the current situation. That is all there is to compare.

 

[easttexastrash]

doggy, I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. The question is who you would take on the 3 on 3 team right now. Right now, one is a sophomore and the other is a freshman. That's the current situation. That is all there is to compare.

Agreed. This is about right now, not about comparing two players at the same points in their careers.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Let's compare head-to-head performance from 2012 in the two meetikngs. It's hard to say that Diggins is a better playmaker when Sims had more assists and fewer TOs.

If there is a congeniality contest or a make-up applying demonstration I'll take Diggins. If I want to win a basketball game, I'll take Sims.

Hard to say Diggins is a better playmaker than Sims? I can say it without any effort at all! The evidence you cite is not that convincing, as Diggins had to face Griner and Sims did not. If you look at the whole season, Diggins numbers are simply better. Diggins had more assists (222 vs. 174) and slightly fewer turnovers (103 vs. 105). Isn't assist to turnover ratio a good metric for the playmaking ability of a PG? As for defense, Sims had more steals (118 vs. 102) but also committed more fouls in doing so (81 vs. 64), and Skylar had more blocks (19 vs. 2). Rebounds were basically equal (3.3 Diggins vs. 3.0 Sims). As a scorer, Diggins had more points (16.8 vs. 14.9) and higher FG% (50% vs. 45%), but Sims was better on 3-pts (40% vs. 36%) and FT (83% vs. 79%). As for the congeniality/make-up comment, I think we should limit our discussion to basketball skills.

As for Sims having a NC, she certainly trumps Diggins there. I'm sure Diggins would trade in her international accolades for a NCAA title. But remember that Sims didn't do it alone.

 

[doggydaddy]

doggy, I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. The question is who you would take on the 3 on 3 team right now. Right now, one is a sophomore and the other is a freshman. That's the current situation. That is all there is to compare.

That may have been part of the question, but many posters are answering who is better based on last years stats.

 

[triaddukefan]

Hard to say Diggins is a better playmaker than Sims? I can say it without any effort at all! The evidence you cite is not that convincing, as Diggins had to face Griner and Sims did not. If you look at the whole season, Diggins numbers are simply better. Diggins had more assists (222 vs. 174) and slightly fewer turnovers (103 vs. 105). Isn't assist to turnover ratio a good metric for the playmaking ability of a PG? As for defense, Sims had more steals (118 vs. 102) but also committed more fouls in doing so (81 vs. 64), and Skylar had more blocks (19 vs. 2). Rebounds were basically equal (3.3 Diggins vs. 3.0 Sims). As a scorer, Diggins had more points (16.8 vs. 14.9) and higher FG% (50% vs. 45%), but Sims was better on 3-pts (40% vs. 36%) and FT (83% vs. 79%). As for the congeniality/make-up comment, I think we should limit our discussion to basketball skills.

As for Sims having a NC, she certainly trumps Diggins there. I'm sure Diggins would trade in her international accolades for a NCAA title. But remember that Sims didn't do it alone.

Well judging by statistics..... can you make a case for Gray over Diggins and Sims??

 

[easttexastrash]

Hard to say Diggins is a better playmaker than Sims? I can say it without any effort at all! The evidence you cite is not that convincing, as Diggins had to face Griner and Sims did not. If you look at the whole season, Diggins numbers are simply better. Diggins had more assists (222 vs. 174) and slightly fewer turnovers (103 vs. 105). Isn't assist to turnover ratio a good metric for the playmaking ability of a PG? As for defense, Sims had more steals (118 vs. 102) but also committed more fouls in doing so (81 vs. 64), and Skylar had more blocks (19 vs. 2). Rebounds were basically equal (3.3 Diggins vs. 3.0 Sims). As a scorer, Diggins had more points (16.8 vs. 14.9) and higher FG% (50% vs. 45%), but Sims was better on 3-pts (40% vs. 36%) and FT (83% vs. 79%). As for the congeniality/make-up comment, I think we should limit our discussion to basketball skills.

As for Sims having a NC, she certainly trumps Diggins there. I'm sure Diggins would trade in her international accolades for a NCAA title. But remember that Sims didn't do it alone.

Sims has something that stats don't reflect: toughness, heart and desire to win. I will take Sims any day of the week...and most likely win. She is, in my opinion, the toughest player in the nation. But, I am biased.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Well judging by statistics..... can you make a case for Gray over Diggins and Sims??

Not unless rebounds are the most important stat! Diggins bests her in just about every stat:
http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/stats/2011-12/basketball-w/teamcume.htm
http://www.und.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2011-2012/teamcume.html
I love Gray though!

 

[Fightin Choke]

Sims has something that stats don't reflect: toughness, heart and desire to win. I will take Sims any day of the week...and most likely win. She is, in my opinion, the toughest player in the nation. But, I am biased.

Fair enough. You cannot measure toughness. But Diggins is also tough. I don't know Sims well enough to make a comparison.

 

[easttexastrash]

Diggins is a phenomenal player. Tremendous on offense. I think that she will struggle guarding opposing PGs at the next level. At least for a while.

A word that comes to mind for Sims is one that was used here to describe Maya's defensive presence: disruptive. She simply makes it hard for the opposing PG to run the offense.

 

[triaddukefan]

Not unless rebounds are the most important stat! Diggins bests her in just about every stat:
http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/stats/2011-12/basketball-w/teamcume.htm
http://www.und.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2011-2012/teamcume.html
I love Gray though!

Gray is a better playmaker then Diggins.... more of a pure point guard in my opinion. Diggins took way more shots than Gray did..... but I will give Diggins credit... for a Guard to shoot 50% from the field is qute impressive. Gray actually had more assists per game...... even on a team with less offensive firepower than ND.

 

[bbsamjj]

Sims and Diggins are both amazing players, but let's be real: put Diggins on Baylor and Sims on ND, and the same team still wins the championship game.

 

[easttexastrash]

Sims and Diggins are both amazing players, but let's be real: put Diggins on Baylor and Sims on ND, and the same team still wins the championship game.

Proves she has poor decision making by going to ND. Baylor has the most renowned "Health, Human Performance and Recreation" program in the nation. She passed up that for a business degree from ND???!

 

[speedoo]

If we could get back to the Thomas vs. KML comparison, could anyone who knows Thomas better than I do tell me if I am right with my recollection that she is a much better open court (eg. Fast break) kind of player than in the half court? I recall one game where the Terps' opponent turned it into a half court game and Thomas was pretty ineffective.

If I am right, I'm thinking that KML would have been a much better choice, because she actually excels in the half court, since the 3x3 competition is strictly a half court deal.

 

[Scotter]

3 on 3 is halfcourt, but there is also a lot more space to operate thanks to four less players occupying the same space. I can see how Thomas would be very good in a 3 on 3 environment with the added space to operate 1 on 1, and why USA Basketball would take her over Kaleena.

If we could get back to the Thomas vs. KML comparison, could anyone who knows Thomas better than I do tell me if I am right with my recollection that she is a much better open court (eg. Fast break) kind of player than in the half court? I recall one game where the Terps' opponent turned it into a half court game and Thomas was pretty ineffective.

If I am right, I'm thinking that KML would have been a much better choice, because she actually excels in the half court, since the 3x3 competition is strictly a half court deal.

 

[speedoo]

3 on 3 is halfcourt, but there is also a lot more space to operate thanks to four less players occupying the same space. I can see how Thomas would be very good in a 3 on 3 environment with the added space to operate 1 on 1, and why USA Basketball would take her over Kaleena.

good point.