Alyssa Thomas or Kaleena Lewis

[RadyLady]

Now we have a ND v. Baylor v. Duke discussion on a UConn board.

Kindly wipe your feet when you enter.

Welk, ever since Tennessee switched to a pay site, the Boneyard has become the friendly mecca for all thoughts WCBB

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk

 

[Icebear]

You actually do not need to read them. Isn't there a way to block me? And if my posts are inappropriate I'm sure the moderators will admonish me.

Just remember it is a UConn board not a general board and not an ND or Baylor board and we'll be fine.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

But Diggins has a better assists to TO ratio, which I contend is the single best measure of a playmaker.

Completely disagree. If that were the case, players like Debbie Black (in her later years) and Kelly Jolly would be considered great playmakers. They weren't. They were good faciliators of the ball. But they could not run a pick-and-roll or a pick-and-pop, and they could not create shots for themselves and others.

Having a lower A/TO ratio can also be a function of a player not taking risks or even attempting to read and dissect a tight defensive scheme. It says nothing about being "the single beast measure" of the overall ability to quarterback an offense.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Just remember it is a UConn board not a general board and not an ND or Baylor board and we'll be fine.

With all the off topic stuff on here you are complaining about a discussion that started with a UConn player, drifted to comparing players from other collegees, and returned to include UConn players? I am a very respectful fan of another team. I certainly have not flamed any other poster or dissed any UConn player, so I am confused why you and others find this discussion (and me) so distasteful. UConn basketball does not exist in a vacuum. There must be other teams for UConn to play, and the past few years, Baylor, Duke and Notre Dame have been among their top competitors. I do not understand why one cannot discuss these teams in the setting of a UConn board.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Completely disagree. If that were the case, players like Debbie Black (in her later years) and Kelly Jolly would be considered great playmakers. They weren't. They were good faciliators of the ball. But they could not run a pick-and-roll or a pick-and-pop, and they could not create shots for themselves and others.

Having a lower A/TO ratio can also be a function of a player not taking risks or even attempting to read and dissect a tight defensive scheme. It says nothing about being "the single beast measure" of the overall ability to quarterback an offense.

Fair enough. But I said the assist to TO ratio was the single best statistical measure, not the only measure. Which single stat would be more precise? Diggins also had similar assists/minute and more scoring than Chelsea, although I do not how many of Diggins (or Gray's) points were pick and roll or pick and pop.

 

[Icebear]

With all the off topic stuff on here you are complaining about a discussion that started with a UConn player, drifted to comparing players from other collegees, and returned to include UConn players? I am a very respectful fan of another team. I certainly have not flamed any other poster or dissed any UConn player, so I am confused why you and others find this discussion (and me) so distasteful. UConn basketball does not exist in a vacuum. There must be other teams for UConn to play, and the past few years, Baylor, Duke and Notre Dame have been among their top competitors. I do not understand why one cannot discuss these teams in the setting of a UConn board.

My comment was not directed towards you. Simply a general trend. You are correct there are always other teams to play and those discussions are always welcome. You completely misread my intention.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Fair enough. But I said the assist to TO ratio was the single best statistical measure, not the only measure. Which single stat would be more precise? Diggins also had similar assists/minute and more scoring than Chelsea, although I do not how many of Diggins (or Gray's) points were pick and roll or pick and pop.

Use a formula.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...n.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?position=pg

 

[HuskyNan]

My comment was not directed towards you. Simply a general trend. You are correct there are always other teams to play and those discussions are always welcome. You completely misread my intention.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say to our visitors. This thread has been fine. In fact, this is more basketball chatter than we usually have during the summers. If you don't like the drift of a thread, don't read it.

 

[doggydaddy]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say to our visitors. This thread has been fine. In fact, this is more basketball chatter than we usually have during the summers. If you don't like the drift of a thread, don't read it.

Personally, I love it. Great and polite visitors and spirited discussions. Even ETT...lol.

 

[easttexastrash]

Personally, I love it. Great and polite visitors and spirited discussions. Even ETT...lol.

Thanks, DD. I feel the love.

I do think that at times we visitors need a reminder that it is a UCONN board. It is easy to forget that at times due to the variety of subjects and topics that are discussed. I am not sure that any other board would welcome the variety of viewpoints like the BY does. I have grown to depend on this board for stimulating converstations about women's basketball and other sporting events, such as Wimbledon.

 

[Icebear]

Thanks, DD. I feel the love.

I do think that at times we visitors need a reminder that it is a UCONN board. It is easy to forget that at times due to the variety of subjects and topics that are discussed. I am not sure that any other board would welcome the variety of viewpoints like the BY does. I have grown to depend on this board for stimulating converstations about women's basketball and other sporting events, such as Wimbledon.

That is all that was being suggested.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Whenever a fellow BoneYarder disagrees with me, especially with vituperative intent, the thread should automatically be shut down, thus controlling for the clustering of stupidity, rampant ignorance, general intellectual error, cognitive laziness, and incipient banality.

On my part, of course.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Fair enough. But I said the assist to TO ratio was the single best statistical measure, not the only measure. Which single stat would be more precise? Diggins also had similar assists/minute and more scoring than Chelsea, although I do not how many of Diggins (or Gray's) points were pick and roll or pick and pop.

Fightin Choke, in my previous post, I suggested the use of a formula as a statistical measure, specifically using Hollinger's PER (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...n.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?position=pg)

This formula measures the following statistics (though I think for purposes of this discussion, rebounding was not a focal point or an issue being addressed with respect to this particular thread/debate):

• True Shooting Percentage - what a player's shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = Total points / [(FGA + (0.44 x FTA)]
• Assist Ratio - the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an assist. Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
• Turnover Ratio - the percentage of a player's possessions that end in a turnover. Turnover Ratio = (Turnover x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers]
• Usage Rate - the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes. Usage Rate = {[FGA + (FT Att. x 0.44) + (Ast x 0.33) + TO] x 40 x League Pace} divided by (Minutes x Team Pace)
• Offensive rebound rate
• Defensive rebound rate
• Rebound Rate - the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Rebound Rate = (100 x (Rebounds x Team Minutes)) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]
• Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player's per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season.
• Value Added - the estimated number of points a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' (for instance, the 12th man on the roster) would produce. Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards
• Estimated Wins Added - Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' would produce.

But as to your questions regarding the "single best statistical measure" or which "single stat would be more precise," I do not believe that there is a single stat/statistical measure that can determine the best measure of a playmaker. For all the statistical analysis in the world, it does not replace the ability to watch a game and make an informed decision. The above-referenced formula is a great, comprensive measure (and really handy if someone wants to provide a link to support an argument as to whether Player A is better than Player B). But the formula, just like any other statistic, primarily takes account a player's actions (shot, rebound, assist, etc.) at a given point in time; it does not set forth what the other four players (outside of an assist) are doing on the court at the very moment.

For example, if Bria Hartley makes a direct pass to Kiah Stokes who finishes a layup, Hartley gets the assist while Stokes gets the made shot and the points. But I have yet to see a formula that would be able to tell me whether Hartley created the play off the dribble or of off receiving a pass herself, whether Hartley was in a traditional halfcourt set or if she was running a fast break, whether Hartley crossed-over her defender (or even if Hartley and/or Stokes were being defended) or simply threw the pass into the post, whether Hartley broke down her defender by herself or whether Stef Dolson set a hard screen for Hartley, etc.

So while you contend that looking at an assists-to-turnover ratio is "the single best measure of a playmaker," I do not believe this is a correct assessment based on the fact I do not believe there is such a thing as a "single best measure of a playmaker."

And, as a final point, look at the WNBA statistics right now. In the top ten in the league for assist-to-turnover ratio are the following people: Kalana Greene, Erin Thorn, Roneeka Hodges, Shameka Christon, and Tiffany Hayes (side note...congratulations to UConn for producing two non-point guards in the top ten). Are any of those five "playmakers?" None are. A few can create their own shots. But none of them are point guards, much less playmakers or quarterbacks of an offense. They simply do not turn the ball over that much, relative to the amount of assists that they accumulate.

 

[alexrgct]

Whenever a fellow BoneYarder disagrees with me, especially with vituperative intent, the thread should automatically be shut down, thus controlling for the clustering of stupidity, rampant ignorance, general intellectual error, cognitive laziness, and incipient banality.

On my part, of course.

I applaud your use of the word "vituperative" and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[HuskyNan]

I do think that at times we visitors need a reminder that it is a UCONN board. It is easy to forget that at times due to the variety of subjects and topics that are discussed. I am not sure that any other board would welcome the variety of viewpoints like the BY does. I have grown to depend on this board for stimulating converstations about women's basketball and other sporting events, such as Wimbledon.

Visitors are always welcome here. Biff, JS and I just ask that everyone - UConn and non-UConn fans alike - use civility when conversing. And don't trash our Coach or players (not that you have, ETT, just making a general statement).

 

[MilfordHusky]

Visitors are always welcome here. Biff, JS and I just ask that everyone - UConn and non-UConn fans alike - use civility when conversing. And don't trash our Coach or players (not that you have, ETT, just making a general statement).

Can we charge them 10 cents per post? We can donate the money to the UConn WCBB scholarship fund.

 

[HuskyNan]

We need to be understanding of our fellow wcbb fans. Some have boards of their own but few have the number of posters or breadth of topics we have here. We're a neutral board for the ND, Baylor, Duke, RU, Stanford, Louisville, Maryland, Tennessee, UNC, etc fans that visit so if they get into a deep discussion, we're allowing them an opportunity they may not have elsewhere. And we may learn something about their teams to boot. I think it's great and I think the regular visitors we have are great, too.

 

[triaddukefan]

Visitors are always welcome here. .

Thanks for having me, and thanks for being so open to have visitors...

I tried to join the Carolina board a while back.... but they denied my application for some reason

 

[JS]

I do think that at times we visitors need a reminder that it is a UCONN board.

Should there come a time when you do need such a reminder, we mods will issue one. We haven't.

If ever is heard a discouraging word (you've inspired the Western in me) from occasional self-appointed arbiters of board propriety, you won't go wrong in ignoring that word. Just wait on us. We can be annoying enough without your having to put up with others.

I'll echo Nan's comments that the perspective, information and opinions brought by fans of other teams are of great value to the board.

 

[JS]

I tried to join the Carolina board a while back.... but they denied my application for some reason

I understand they've set the disqualifier at 10,000 utterances of "Go to hell, Carolina."

Kind of arbitrary, but one more than that and you're toast.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Visitors are always welcome here. Biff, JS and I just ask that everyone - UConn and non-UConn fans alike - use civility when conversing.

The "civility" part is something I have learned over the course of my ten years posting on the Boneyard (from Rivals to Scout to this site). I do not think many of my opinions or analysis have changed, but the tone and tenor with which I present them and post comments certainly has.

In fact, some of the "major" things that have changed over the years (and through interacting with Boneyard posters) are my appreciation for Diana Taurasi (as a player and as a personality) and my respect for Geno Auriemma (both as a coach/teacher but also for his sense of humor). In recognizing these things, it forced me to analyze how I post my opinions when I disagree with someone else.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

We need to be understanding of our fellow wcbb fans. Some have boards of their own but few have the number of posters or breadth of topics we have here. We're a neutral board for the ND, Baylor, Duke, RU, Stanford, Louisville, Maryland, Tennessee, UNC, etc fans that visit so if they get into a deep discussion, we're allowing them an opportunity they may not have elsewhere. And we may learn something about their teams to boot. I think it's great and I think the regular visitors we have are great, too.

Some interesting things have happened over the years. Back in 2002 (when I joined the Boneyard), visitors were not as well received, simply because UConn was on top and many UConn fans were exuberant in their support/commentary for UConn, which fans of other schools interpreted as disparaging to their own respective teams. In fact, they are two different things - being able to appreciate how dominant UConn was at that time was not to disparage another program or school, but simply a reflection of UConn's tremendous accomplishments. At the same time, not as many Boneyard posters were as knowledgeable about other schools, outside of Tennessee.

Over the past decade, however, the board has morphed. UConn fans have certainly diversified their knowledge of WCBB (I should clarify that it is not that they did not have this knowledge before; rather, in my personal experience, I did not see it on display in the message board posts at the time). You see many board posters here starting threads about games involving other Big East programs or other schools that are Elight Eight contenders. And fans of other schools have grown and matured as well, not just to appreciate and respect Geno Auriemma and the UConn program for all of its accomplishments but to understand that recognizing UConn's greatness is not disparaging to one's own school.